cant decide between mechanical or civil

DoubleJK

Hello, I am not american but I guess the jobs aren't that different from different countries.

The problem is I can't decide between choosing mechanical or civil-engineering.
I reallyreally enjoy math and physics and want a job where I use these subjects.(In this case it would be more mechanics than regular physics.)
I have read so much on the Internet, but maybe I cant find the right info.

When I read about structural engineering that seems so interesting. But I do think I could like a lot of things in mechanical engineering aswell.

Do you guys have any tips for me?, or maybe you know about something I should read to make the choice easier?
In which field do you think I will have to most use for mathematics and physics?

godtabh

DO civil its alot easier

DoubleJK

kearnsr wrote: »

DO civil its alot easier

The thing is; I want to use math and mechanical physics to use difficult and complicated problems. So I dont want such an easy job.

Boston

If you go to trinity you'll have two years to make your decision.

DoubleJK

Boston wrote: »

If you go to trinity you'll have two years to make your decision.

I dont live in America so I cant go to your universities.
At my university you choose a programme and you have to stay there for 5 years to get a master diploma(cant quit for a bachelor) so I really want to choose the right thing.

Which one of mechanical or structural engineers learn most math and physics to do simulations and calculations?

Boston

DoubleJK wrote: »

I dont live in America so I cant go to your universities.
At my university you choose a programme and you have to stay there for 5 years to get a master diploma(cant quit for a bachelor) so I really want to choose the right thing.

Which one of mechanical or structural engineers learn most math and physics to do simulations and calculations?

1) You're posting on boards.ie, as in Ireland, not America.
2) It would really depend on how the course is structured. And engineering these days use significant amounts of computer modeling and maths. The level to which you'll be exposed to different techniques will depend on the course you're doing and no one can give you a general "one size fits all" answer. Your best approach would be to try and contact the university of your choice and talk to course coordinators and students. Also looking at their website should give you a good idea of the topics covered.

godtabh

DoubleJK wrote: »

The thing is; I want to use math and mechanical physics to use difficult and complicated problems. So I dont want such an easy job.

if you go into civil engineering modelling the maths can get very complicated. Thinks like parmaics modelling are very technical were as what I do wouldnt be as technical.

If maths and physics are your thing structures might be the way to go

Tribunius

There is plenty of scope in both to use maths and physics. However my background is as a mechanical engineer so thats all I can really comment on.

There are plenty of areas that involve complex mathematical models. FEA, CFD etc. You will either love them or love to hate them. But you should bear in mind that what you learn in university might not even come up again in your career. It all depends on the job you end up with once you finish.

DoubleJK

A guy at the university said that structural engineering was a lot of mechanics but with mechanical structures you learn a lot about materials aswell. I read about some of the sumbjects but I am not that sure how you work with them. How do people mostly work with material technology?

BTW: Sorry I thought this was an american forum, didn't realise it was Irish.:)

petrochemical

Structural engineering (in civil engineering) is mainly statics, not mechanics. Mechanics only comes into specialist areas like seismic analysis etc. Most of the theory you learn in college you will never use, instead you will reuse tried and tested designs. Most of your job will involve bs paperwork and business meetings. Theres really very little "design" in it. I guess bridges are the area with the most "design" but even then its pretty boring. The computer analysis is using graphic packages- stick models etc., even Finite Element Analysis (in civil) is dead easy to use. A trained monkey could use them. Unfortunately structural engineers dont like to admit this, and so will blow their own trumpet to the rooftops about how great they are because they designed a beam, bla, bla, bla etc...M=wL2/8!

If you really want to utilise physics and maths join the R&D department of some mechanical eng company, or become an academic. Alternatively, change to science or computer science.

godtabh

petrochemical wrote: »

Structural engineering (in civil engineering) is mainly statics, not mechanics. Mechanics only comes into specialist areas like seismic analysis etc. Most of the theory you learn in college you will never use, instead you will reuse tried and tested designs. Most of your job will involve bs paperwork and business meetings. Theres really very little "design" in it. I guess bridges are the area with the most "design" but even then its pretty boring. The computer analysis is using graphic packages- stick models etc., even Finite Element Analysis (in civil) is dead easy to use. A trained monkey could use them. Unfortunately structural engineers dont like to admit this, and so will blow their own trumpet to the rooftops about how great they are because they designed a beam, bla, bla, bla etc...M=wL2/8!

If you really want to utilise physics and maths join the R&D department of some mechanical eng company, or become an academic. Alternatively, change to science or computer science.

What about foul water, surface water and water main desing, roads design and layout geotech design etc etc. There are lots of areas were you cant use tried and tested design. Tired and test principles yes but the design is unique.

Civil enginering can have very complex maths involved. It can also be very basic. How complex it gets depends on what you do

petrochemical

kearnsr wrote: »

What about foul water, surface water and water main desing, roads design and layout geotech design etc etc. There are lots of areas were you cant use tried and tested design. Tired and test principles yes but the design is unique.

The "design" of drainage as you call it, means deciding the route of a drainage line, which is so simple an intelligent child could do it. Road design is also simple. Compare that to designing a machine or computer, there's just no comparison. Structural engineers arent really designers compared to other engineers. They're glorified clerks. Even a so called "complicated" building has a simple frame at its heart.

Civil enginering can have very complex maths involved. It can also be very basic. How complex it gets depends on what you do

What complex maths? Maybe the designers of the FE programs/AutoCAD had to do a bit of maths, but they're computer programmers. Considering most building elements can be designed on spreadsheets, and the frame itself is based around a simple stiffness matrix, I'd hardly call it complex.

The only area where it might be used is in special seismic or dynamic analysis or something, where you might use Fourier theory for example, but I wouldnt call that too complex. And those are specialised areas that the majority of structural engineers will never encounter.

Dundhoone

petrochemical wrote: »

The "design" of drainage as you call it, means deciding the route of a drainage line, which is so simple an intelligent child could do it.

All you are showing us here is your ignorance of what is involved in sewer/wastewater design. While its not the most difficult of disiplines I challenge you to produce a child who can do it!

If you really think that all that involved is the route than I might as well tell you that refining crude oil is easy, sure whats involved with that only a giant strainer of some sort???

Stop trolling and try to contribute in a postive manner. Tell us the strenghts /complexity of what you do rather than taking about something you know nothing about.

Complex maths are used in certain areas of civil engineering. For example look at the stuff MCS produce on deep water rising mains. Granted computer programs are reducing the amount of complex maths used across engineering - but the same can be said for a lot of other professions.

fits

It always amazes me how engineers love putting down other engineering disciplines and proclaiming their own discipline the hardest!

So F*cking What!

Do what interests you and as long as you have the ability, dont worry about its relative difficulty, thats just rubbish.

I think there are merits in every discipline. They all involve ability in maths, logical thinking and design. If you seek out the difficult problems you'll find them.

petrochemical

Dundhoone wrote: »

All you are showing us here is your ignorance of what is involved in sewer/wastewater design. While its not the most difficult of disiplines I challenge you to produce a child who can do it! .

The routing is one aspect of drainage design. And no it's not difficult. No doubt you use a spreadsheet with the Colebrook-White formula or microdrainage or something similar. And yes there are many intelligent children who would be well capable.

Complex maths are used in certain areas of civil engineering. For example look at the stuff MCS produce on deep water rising mains. Granted computer programs are reducing the amount of complex maths used across engineering - but the same can be said for a lot of other professions.

I was talking more about structural engineering originally. But if you want to tell me about this "complex" maths in rising main design, go ahead.

DoubleJK

This just got very interesting, keep on discussing petrochemical and you other guys!:)

But does anyone know how you work in material technology as I asked about before? Is there a lot of chemistry there(I dont really like chemistry I mostly like maths and physics as I've said:)).

Dundhoone

Double Jk - just so you know, theres chem in first year of civil and I think mechanical also.

Petro - good. Maybe someday soon they will replace me with a child. woo kids! Do I want to tell you anything ....well you've just replaced me with a child, so ......no. Tell me about what you do first.

dame

OP, choose an an undenominated engineering course. That way you can sample them all and choose the best one for you after experiencing them for yourself.

As far as I know, all engineering courses have chemistry in first year. It's not hard or anything. It's only leaving cert chemistry really, just to give people a basic understanding.

DoubleJK

Yeah ofcourse I have to the chemistry the first year. But allmost every engineering programme at the university has this chemistry programme. And since I have chosen all the chemistry I can I dont think it will be to hard in university(people with no chemistry from High School can get in to the engineering programmes).

But I am still wondering about the materials technology, is that field dominated by chemistry?

petrochemical

Dundhoone wrote: »

Petro - good. Maybe someday soon they will replace me with a child. woo kids! Do I want to tell you anything ....well you've just replaced me with a child, so ......no. Tell me about what you do first.

The point I'm making is that maths in Structural Engineering is not that difficult. The "complex" maths you are talking about is not used in most of it.

But you go on blowing your own trumpet if it makes you feel better about your "complex" career.

breadmonkey

don't bother arguing with petro, he's just having another whingehttp://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055029566

petrochemical

breadmonkey wrote: »

don't bother arguing with petro, he's just having another whingehttp://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055029566

So you resort to an ad hominem attack because you can't or won't argue? I could easily do the same, but I won't. Stick to the topic or keep out of it.

breadmonkey

petrochemical wrote: »

So you resort to an ad hominem attack because you can't or won't argue? I could easily do the same, but I won't. Stick to the topic or keep out of it.

get help

Toolbag

Simple rule of thumb, if you're a bogger do Civil, if not do Mechanical

Enough bickering. Be civil (buh dum tish) or you'll be taking some time out.

Toolbag, please try to contribute something meaningful.

DoubleJK

Toolbag wrote: »

Simple rule of thumb, if you're a bogger do Civil, if not do Mechanical

Why do you say this, any reasjon you think this?:)

petrochemical

breadmonkey wrote: »

get help

How dare you! You arrogant twerp. You'd know you're in UCD anyway, think you know it all. Dishing out "advice" left, right and centre on these boards. I actually know what I'm talking about. You're just a student, with no experience! Go back to your triaxial tests or whatever boring nonsense you were at. Loser.

petrochemical banned for one week.

chris85

come on, whats with the bickering. Civil and mechanical have their differences but no one has the right to put down the other person's discipline.

The only thing I say is that civil sometimes have it easier as there calculations are a bit easier but only because they have a large factor of safety involved but this is to be expected with the designs they have.

I am in mechanical and the calculations involved are somewhat interesting. As far a I am concerned the maths involved in engineering is difficult but not impossible and involves a certain amount of understanding the problem but otherwise I find them ok.

With civil you will spend a lot of time on sites and there also tends to be a lot of meetings as the money and companies involved are big. This leads to a bit of politics.

DoubleJK

chris85 wrote: »

come on, whats with the bickering. Civil and mechanical have their differences but no one has the right to put down the other person's discipline.

The only thing I say is that civil sometimes have it easier as there calculations are a bit easier but only because they have a large factor of safety involved but this is to be expected with the designs they have.

I am in mechanical and the calculations involved are somewhat interesting. As far a I am concerned the maths involved in engineering is difficult but not impossible and involves a certain amount of understanding the problem but otherwise I find them ok.

With civil you will spend a lot of time on sites and there also tends to be a lot of meetings as the money and companies involved are big. This leads to a bit of politics.

Can you please explain what you use the math for?, what you calculate etc.?

godtabh

DoubleJK wrote: »

Can you please explain what you use the math for?, what you calculate etc.?

I dont do alot of calcs these days but I could put a long list here as to why maths is needed to be an engineer. But I wont as its late

DoubleJK

kearnsr wrote: »

I dont do alot of calcs these days but I could put a long list here as to why maths is needed to be an engineer. But I wont as its late

Aah well, have a nice christmas anyway!:D

Nukem

kearnsr wrote: »

DO civil its alot easier

Need we delve any deepier into the issue:rolleyes:Sorry cheap Mech Dig
If your lookling for deep calcs with intensive sims and all that i reckon Civ or with Mech and hint of CFD or failure analysis is the way to go. Work with a few Civils and they are well better than i at sims and building calcs but more mech like we know are more about facilities/utilities, fluids and practical math. But when it comes to building and structure the guys run me ragged.