Bentone Oil burner not working

zapata

I have a problem with this burner. I reckon it is about 10 years old. The burner is a Bentone. It has a danfoss oil pump and a danfoss\landis & gyr control box. I had a fill of kerosene about a month ago and after bleeding it fired up and worked until now.
The photo sensor is spotless.
The thermostat reset button seems ok.
It seems to be in lockout mode - red light on the reset button.
After pressing this, red light goes out, the relays click, and then click after about 4 seconds. It then resets again. I can hear and feel the water pump running
The motor\blower does not kick in nor start up.
I disconnected the burner from the boiler and noticed that the motor is very stiff to turn manually. Should this spin freely?
Any other checks or am I goose'd…

JamesM

If you just hear the clicks and not the motor whirring, then it is very likely that the motor is sticking. If you take off the oil pump, the motor should spin very freely. Sit the burner as you have it in the first photo and squirt plenty of WD 40 into the motor where the drive connects. Run the motor for a few cycles to free it up - If it spins freely, put back the pump and make sure that you replace the burner in the boiler before trying to start it. That's the most likely problem - try it - it may work for a day or a year. The oil pump can also be sticking or the motor may be just burnt out. You do have to make sure that the pump is properly lined up when re-fitting it. Leave the screws loose and slowly tighten them, one at a time, as you run the burner
Jim.

zapata

Hi JamesM and thanks,
I knew from reading the other 'oil burner problem' threads that I would get a reply from you. Do you or have you worked in that game..
Anyway i disconnected the mains and oil feed and stripped the burner down. Checked all the components and cleaned the nozzle insitu (couldn't remove the nozzle as the blast tube seems to be welded - even with the screws removed). Some of the wiring connections in the control box were iffy, so sorted them too. Put it all back together and it worked. Like you say - maybe for a day or a year. Nice warm house for now....

JamesM

zapata wrote: »

Do you or have you worked in that game..

'Fraid so

Glad it's working :)

MAC200sx

hows tricks?can see that you know your stuff!have a bentone b9,suntec pump as47c,was working fine,serviced 8 months ago,new stat,nozzle,filter,fire valve,
.no strange noises,no soot or anything obvious.took motor off,spins free,cleaned photosensor and the flue,it runs for 30mins and knocks off.have to press reset button to start again.sumtimes it wont relight.seen an earlier thread that ye mentioned a capacitor mite need changing??any ideas man?

JamesM

I presume that you are pressing the reset button on the control box on the burner, not the button on the thermostat !
It's the times it won't restart, that you can tell most about what's going wrong. During a failed restart, does the motor turn or is there just a bare hum (almost silent) from it ? If that is the case, It is the motor or the oil pump that is stuck - take the pump off and, if the motor is sticking, try the WD 40 trick. If the motor is turning at full speed, then it is likely that the solenoid coil is acting up when it gets hot - it is not opening up and letting the oil through. Also make sure that the electrodes are sparking - sometimes there can be a breakdown a the transformer.
If there is a fault in any of the major parts, it is usually better to buy a new burner - The Riello G3 is one of the best and will fit where there was a B9 - you just change the flange.
To be honest, it's mainly experience that identifies an intermittant problem like that.
Jim.

squealypig

Any pointers gratefully received. Have just had a refill and noticed the smell of Kero from the boiler. Have removed the Burner cover. All the fittings are dry however there is some wetness under the burner casing. With everything visible being dry I'm at a loss as to where the oil could be seeping from. Are their any gaskets etc. beyond the oil pump fixing. Apologies for my vagueness!

Thanks

JamesM

If the leak is not visible, it can be the seal on the oil pump drive shaft. Or filling the tank may have stirred up some dirt, which may have damaged the nozzle and messed up the spray patern - there could be a drip from the nozzle, working down through the burner - new nozzle. If it is the oil pump, you have to replace the pump, or the burner.
Jim.

squealypig

Thanks Jim

Time to call in the boilerman!!

Cheers

Mark

Morrisseeee

..........HINT for people with oil burners not working........

not the button on the thermostat !

Could someone tell me, (is JamesM around?), what this button does ?
Does it simply reset the thermostat ?

The reason I ask is, it saved me this Xmas ! ie. my burner wouldn't start-up. I tried all the usual things but still no action. I happened to mention it to my neighbour and he said : try this: 'there's a button hidden under a black screw cap on the thermostat box, ie. where you can change the temperature. Press this button to see if it will work for you.'
It was by chance that he tried it at another persons house a while earlier !
So......I'm glad it worked, but curious as to what the button does !

JamesM

It's a high limit stat. If the temp gets near boiling point, it hops out. If it hasn't happened since, I wouldn't worry. Don't have the boiler stat set too high.
Jim.

davidoco

Morrisseeee wrote: »

......., but curious as to what the button does !

During a cold spell (especially holiday season XMas week) people may turn up their boiler temp or start having the heating on all day. Then they worry about the price of oil and start turning off certain rads, these houses have thermostatic rad valves but no by pass valve or rad that acts as a by pass which has been turned off. Even though the regular thermostat will turn the burner off with no heat removed from the boiler by circulation (as no flow route available) the boiler temp can reach the trip out on the safety valve very quickly.

JamesM

davidoco wrote: »

During a cold spell (especially holiday season XMas week) people may turn up their boiler temp or start having the heating on all day. Then they worry about the price of oil and start turning off certain rads, these houses have thermostatic rad valves but no by pass valve or rad that acts as a by pass which has been turned off. Even though the regular thermostat will turn the burner off with no heat removed from the boiler by circulation (as no flow route available) the boiler temp can reach the trip out on the safety valve very quickly.

There's the explaination I didn't have time for
Also if the timer switches off just as the boiler reaches the end of a cycle, the temp can shoot up and the limit stat will trip.
Jim.

darior

hi guys
i also have a bentone oil burner that will not fire
it goes through its proceedure the fan kicks in but it locks out
i checked the oil pressure which goes up to 10bar
i took the nozzle out in case it is blocked
has anybody got any suggestions whats wrong?

davidoco

for darior

do you hear the electrodes sparking? if you have gone to the trouble of taking the nozzle out go and get the exact same one new (less than 10 euro).

Diarm007

my burner was working fine the last two weeks but now nothing.. power coming from thermostat to control box but it wont start to do anything.. oil coming to burner..no air locks..

reset button does nothing...

Any suggestions greatly appreciated..

Billy Bunting

Try removing control box, screw on side and pull towards you, once out remove photocell thats fixed to front of box by slipping forward, clean contacts and replace in reverse order.

Briskit

darior wrote: »

hi guys
i also have a bentone oil burner that will not fire
it goes through its proceedure the fan kicks in but it locks out
i checked the oil pressure which goes up to 10bar
i took the nozzle out in case it is blocked
has anybody got any suggestions whats wrong?

Hello Folks,

Like Darior, I have a benton burner and all, type FC4A

it hasn't been igniting lately... everything starts up and runs as it should but it's just not catching and ingniting at the end of the nozzle.... I've lit the mist up manually and everything is working fine... thing is, when it pauses at intervals, it won't then reignite itself!

It happened a month ago, and my usual guy cleaned off the electrode or something, and it worked fine since, but now it's off again.

Does it sound like I need a new capacitor or ignition electrode?

Any experienced response appreciated - as these things do tend to happen during cold snaps!!!

jimf

from your post it sounds like you have a faulty transformer or faulty electrodes

and please for yours and others safety stop the dangerous manual igniting of the burner oil vapour is not something you want to be playing with

Briskit

Thanks jimf.

Diarm007

Hi again.. Never got around to replying.... After cleaning photocell it made no difference.. Power coming to control box but not a purr or a buzz or a click from it... absolutely dead.. any suggestions or faults that would cause nothing to happen when its turned on??

Pump or control box itself?? Thanks

Billy Bunting

Diarm007 wrote: »

my burner was working fine the last two weeks but now nothing.. power coming from thermostat to control box but it wont start to do anything.. oil coming to burner..no air locks..

reset button does nothing...

Any suggestions greatly appreciated..

Is the reset button illuminated ??

Diarm007

no..
control box broke?

Billy Bunting

You say you have power at the control box, are you using a phase tester or milti meter ?

Diarm007

Phase tester..where the live connects there is power... I have a multi meter aswell..

Billy Bunting

Test again between L and N with meter.

Sounds like a bad nautral, possibly in the thermostat control.

Diarm007

what should the reading be?

Billy Bunting

230ish volts

Diarm007

Got 235.8

Billy Bunting

Yes sounds like control box.

Diarm007

Ya my friend has same burner so i'll swap control box and see does it work... Thanks

r011ingthunder

Sorry to hijack the thread. I want to mess around with an old Bentone EC4 which I've gotten my hands on recently. Going to try different fuels etc in it (it's not installed, don't worry, this will be a bench test only). I'm hoping that someone will be able to point me towards a service manual as this would be very helpful. I've had no luck online so far.

jimf

r011ingthunder wrote: »

Sorry to hijack the thread. I want to mess around with an old Bentone EC4 which I've gotten my hands on recently. Going to try different fuels etc in it (it's not installed, don't worry, this will be a bench test only). I'm hoping that someone will be able to point me towards a service manual as this would be very helpful. I've had no luck online so far.

what you propose to do is downright dangerous and i would strongly advise against it

r011ingthunder

jimf wrote: »

what you propose to do is downright dangerous and i would strongly advise against it

Don't worry, it's in a controlled space and will be blended fuels, I'm not going into this "blind" or through ignorance of the dangers. I work with the fuels involved, and am aware of their physical and chemical properties, and they way they will react under the conditions within the burner. I don't however have a manual for this burner, and would like to get my hands on one, any ideas on where I might get one?
But thank you for the warning, it is appreciated.

jimf

r011ingthunder wrote: »

Don't worry, it's in a controlled space and will be blended fuels, I'm not going into this "blind" or through ignorance of the dangers. I work with the fuels involved, and am aware of their physical and chemical properties, and they way they will react under the conditions within the burner. I don't however have a manual for this burner, and would like to get my hands on one, any ideas on where I might get one?
But thank you for the warning, it is appreciated.

try precision heating in dublin their bentone agents they may be able to help you

r011ingthunder

jimf wrote: »

try precision heating in dublin their bentone agents they may be able to help you

Thanks Jim, I have already, unfortunately it's a very old burner, no longer manufactured, no longer stocked, no spares etc, so I think what they were trying to tell me was there's not a hope in hell they'll have a manual.

jimf

r011ingthunder wrote: »

Thanks Jim, I have already, unfortunately it's a very old burner, no longer manufactured, no longer stocked, no spares etc, so I think what they were trying to tell me was there's not a hope in hell they'll have a manual.

try posting on the uk plumber/heating forum some very old boiler guys on there im pretty sure someone on there might be able to help you

r011ingthunder

jimf wrote: »

try posting on the uk plumber/heating forum some very old boiler guys on there im pretty sure someone on there might be able to help you

Do you mean plumbingandheatingforum.co.uk or ukplumbersforums.co.uk?

jimf

ukplumbersforums.co.uk?

r011ingthunder

jimf wrote: »

ukplumbersforums.co.uk?

Thanks, posted on both. Thanks for your help Jim.

GetWithIt

Another Bentone burner question.

I've recently moved into a new house. The burner was apparently serviced before I moved in and the oil tank was refilled. I used it a couple of initially and no problems.

I turned it on this week and nothing, nada, no noise, no hum, no clicking. The reset has no light behind it. I pressed it for a minute or so anyways and nothing. There is a distinct smell of oil around the burner which I don't remember before.

It's a fairly old burner, I'm not sure of the model number but it is a Bentone.

Any thoughts?

shane0007

High limit stat?

the corpo

Hi, hope it's ok to hijack this thread.

Have a Bentone amanda eco boiler. Was working this morning, but this evening it's totally dead. Have pressed the reset button but nothing happens, not a peep. There's no light on the reset switch, so I think there isn't actually any power getting to it at all.

Have checked my fusebox and nothing seems to have tripped.

We did get a new Nest thermostat installed last week, which appears to be working. I've tried resetting it too, and it makes no difference.

My initial suspicion is that the new Nest has screwed it up, but I guess sods law might mean the boiler is kaput by coincidence.

If there's no power getting to the boiler, what's the most likely suspect? Very hard to find info online, but I saw some reference to the boiler having it's own trip switch, but can't find the page again.

Any help much appreciated, it's freezing!

Robbie.G

the corpo wrote: »

Hi, hope it's ok to hijack this thread.

Have a Bentone amanda eco boiler. Was working this morning, but this evening it's totally dead. Have pressed the reset button but nothing happens, not a peep. There's no light on the reset switch, so I think there isn't actually any power getting to it at all.

Have checked my fusebox and nothing seems to have tripped.

We did get a new Nest thermostat installed last week, which appears to be working. I've tried resetting it too, and it makes no difference.

My initial suspicion is that the new Nest has screwed it up, but I guess sods law might mean the boiler is kaput by coincidence.

If there's no power getting to the boiler, what's the most likely suspect? Very hard to find info online, but I saw some reference to the boiler having it's own trip switch, but can't find the page again.

Any help much appreciated, it's freezing!

On the front of your boiler there is a overheat stat check that it hasn't tripped.
There will be a plastic cover with a screwdriver slot on it remove this and the reset is under this press and see if that does anything.
If it has tripped it's then to find what caused it either low water in system or faulty circulating pump

the corpo

Robbie.G wrote: »

On the front of your boiler there is a overheat stat check that it hasn't tripped.
There will be a plastic cover with a screwdriver slot on it remove this and the reset is under this press and see if that does anything.
If it has tripped it's then to find what caused it either low water in system or faulty circulating pump

Forgive my ignorance, but do you mean this?


I removed the black cap on that, and little white pin was pushed out. If I push it in, it just springs straight back out

Robbie.G

the corpo wrote: »

Forgive my ignorance, but do you mean this?


I removed the black cap on that, and little white pin was pushed out. If I push it in, it just springs straight back out

That's the overheat stat.you need to establish that there is power at the boiler.
Is the boiler and pump plugged in if so place something electrical (lamp , radio) in socket and test.

the corpo

No, it appears to be hardwired, the cables disappear into the wall.

It actually sprang to life for about 5 minutes, I wasn't anywhere near it and hadn't done anything. It's gone off again now.

Robbie.G

the corpo wrote: »

No, it appears to be hardwired, the cables disappear into the wall.

It actually sprang to life for about 5 minutes, I wasn't anywhere near it and hadn't done anything. It's gone off again now.

Is the boiler hot the pump might not be working and the boiler is hot and stat satisfied as water is not moving and boiler holding heat.
Next thing is to check the circulating pump on the front of it there is a screwdriver slot remove this inside there is a spindle put a screwdriver in to feel if shaft is rotating if not try to turn it with screwdriver.

the corpo

Thanks for all this, btw.

I removed that cap from the circulating pump, some hot water fell out, but there was no movement inside it at all.

Robbie.G

the corpo wrote: »

Thanks for all this, btw.

I removed that cap from the circulating pump, some hot water fell out, but there was no movement inside it at all.

Try turning pump as I discribed if that doesn't work your looking at a new circulating pump.

the corpo

I did, no joy! Bah! How much should one of those run me?