Punt guns

johngalway

What's the deal with them legally in Ireland?

Is that the blunderbus-in-a-boat thing?

kowloon

I wouldn't say they are illegal, just a large shotgun, but what do you plan on telling your FO?:D

revan23

i hope dick cheney doesn't get his hands on one....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7FeeamC4qk

meathstevie

Well definitly don't tell him sailors used to call it a "murderer". Apparently these things used to be lethal at short range loaded with grapeshot... .

johngalway

That would be the one Zaraba

Kowloon, I don't intend getting one, I was just curious as I saw a pic of one recently.

meathstevie

Sorry lads, my mistake. I think I was mixing it up with what was called a falconet

johngalway

:eek:Revan, that is one hell of a cool video

Does anyone know of these being licenced here?

meathstevie

How would they compare to a 10 or 8 gauge shotgun ?

johngalway

Watched another video just now and one of the guys says the punt gun in that vid is eleven feet long and weighs 140 pounds

revan23

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punt_gun

kowloon

Good for Zombies

johngalway

Good link Revan.

You're spot on there Kowloon, be handy incase of zombie attack.

Double Barrel

Hi John,

I don't think there legal here, (??) up NI they are used, "mallards' can fill in the blanks.

Punt-gunning , also known as "float-gunning" or wild-fowling afloat.

"Irish Tom"





For a bit of perspective, Irish Tom, fired a service charge of fifty ounces, roughly equal to a box of heavy 12 bore wildfowling cartridges.

Irish Tom is 14 feet 1 3/4 inches (4.31m) of punt gun, weighing 300lbs (136kg) and once firing 3lb 2oz (1.4kg) of shot, propelled by 10 ounces (283g) of black powder.

Below, a Holland and Holland punt gun.

Double Barrel

"Irish Tom" historic punt gun to be put on permanent display

09/10/01 > Immediate release

Irish Tom - an awesome piece of shooting history is to be put on permanent display at the headquarters of the British Association of Shooting and Conservation in Rossett.

Irish Tom is 14 feet 1 3/4 inches (4.31m) of punt gun, weighing 300lbs (136kg) and once firing 3lb 2oz (1.4kg) of shot, propelled by 10 ounces (283g) of black powder.

In the 1930s the gun was bought from a professional wildfowler in Ireland by Stanley Duncan, founder of BASC's predecessor WAGBI (The Wildfowlers' Association of Great Britain and Ireland). It was regularly used by by Stanley Duncan from 1936 until the second world war. After that it was acquired and used by actor James Robertson Justice during his many wildfowling exploits on the Wash. It even spent a night at the bottom of the river Welland, to be retrieved at low tide the next day. For a number of years the gun was lost, but is believed to have had a brief incarnation as a builder's scaffolding pole. Now of too large a bore to shoot waterfowl legally, it was rediscovered in an Inverness boatyard in 1981 and restored before being presented to BASC.

Keen southcoast wildfowler Lee Freeston has raised funds from fellow wildfowlers across the country to put Irish Tom on permanent display, with the final amount needed coming from the recent East Coast Wildfowlers' Conference. The conference also donated £100 to the Wildlife Habitat Trust, the conservation fund for sporting shooting in the U.K., which has so far made possible the investment of over £1m in land and habitat conservation.

Tony Laws, Director of Conservation at BASC said "We are delighted that the East Coast Wildfowling Conference has made these two important contributions. One will allow the final preservation of part of our sporting heritage, the second will contribute to the future of our sport and our countryside"

ENDS.

Note to editors: Pictures available. Irish Tom has a diameter of 2 1/32 inches at the muzzle and 2 1/16 inches at the breech. It was originally muzzle-loaded before restoration.

For more details contact Simon Clarke BASC Press office 01244 573026

http://www.basc.org.uk/content/34irishtom34

les45

Well done lads , that is what this forum is all about , a interesting question with good feedback and a cracking post from DB , :D:D

revan23

seems like it's on a par with using dynamite for fishing

Double Barrel

Thanks Les,
Irish Tom was / is some piece of work.

………”With fiery burst,
The unexpected death invades the flock;
Tumbling they lie, and beat the flashing waves,
Whilst those remoter from the fatal range
Of the swift shot, mount up on vig’rous wing,
And wake the sleeping echoes as they fly.”



Photo is of a modern punt, gun and of course gunner taken on the wash in N. Scotland. That is a four bore single shot he has in his hands.

durandal01

I may be greatly incorrect but I believe there is a couple of them on the walls in Durty Nellys in Bunratty, I could be wrong though, I have not been there in years.
They were probably used on the Shannon estuary.

Trojan911

revan23 wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7FeeamC4qk

Pictures Neo going to collect a piece of fox left after JG uses his punt gun :D

Rosahane

Colin Willock wrote this book back in the 60's about building, equipping and operating a punt gun.

If you want to know about Punt Gunning it's a great read as indeed are all his books - especially the shooting ones. He died a couple of years ago and the prices of his first editions have sky rocketed:eek:

If you are a child of the 60's or 70's you will remember the "Survival" wildlife programmes which were produced and sometimes written by him:cool:

He contributed to to Shooting Times for many years as "Town Gun"

Incidentially, ahem, if anyone has "Death at the Strike" by him gathering dust on their bookshelves I would be prepared to offer it a good home and ongoing companionship with the rest of my collection of his books

Neo Researcher

Trojan911 wrote: »

Pictures Neo going to collect a piece of fox left after JG uses his punt gun :D

Would make for an easy dissection anyway. Aslong as I can figure out which pieces are what wouldnt even need a scalpel:o

stevoman

my grandfather used to shoot with one going back 50 years ago. he would tell tales of going out on the bog and firing onto the water and wathching the dogs retreiving bird upon bird just after one shot.

johngalway

Neo Researcher wrote: »

Would make for an easy dissection anyway. Aslong as I can figure out which pieces are what wouldnt even need a scalpel:o

I'd put the remains in a box for ya Neo and print out a picture of a fox to stick on the lid, be just like a jigsaw!

Actually, I've been greycrow bashing mostly this last while and read about punt guns on another site. Be handy over some bait :cool: Was never a runner, just a mad notion.

meathstevie

Get another few lads with you John and you could start the Galway Light Artillery..

johngalway

Lol, not a bad idea.

yank_in_eire

Just a touch on the unethical side lads, wouldn't you say?
They were pretty popular on the Chesapeake Bay back home (well before my time mind you!!) with the meat hunters of the 1800s. Plenty of accounts of whole flocks being wiped out with one shot.
Now you see them only in museums - rightly so in my opinion.

sidneyreilly

No bother getting FAc for the gun, tis the powder that's the problem for the muzzle loaders adn you would to reload the smaller 8 and 4 bore cartridge variety as I dont think they are commercialy loaded afaik

revan23

the afghani equivalent - rpg fishing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg4bcaIXKHU

johngalway

You're right, powder would likely be the biggest problem. I'd not thought of that.

Double Barrel

Durty Nellys, Chesapeake Bay, "Death at the Strike", Folkard, H&H, Irish Tom, Ralph Payne Galwey, Shannon Estuary, pounds of shot and black powder. Eclectic. :cool:

Very Interesting Old Gun Room don't ya think.

kowloon

Do i see a ...skateboard??

Double Barrel

:D:D:D:D:D

That's the son's toy punt.

Pj!

I believe I seen one of these punt guns while visiting the Irish Fishing and Shooting Museum near Durrow in Laois.

Neo Researcher

johngalway wrote: »

I'd put the remains in a box for ya Neo and print out a picture of a fox to stick on the lid, be just like a jigsaw!

Actually, I've been greycrow bashing mostly this last while and read about punt guns on another site. Be handy over some bait :cool: Was never a runner, just a mad notion.

Make a change from roadkill fox rubix cubes :eek:

Double Barrel

Forky wrote: »

I believe I seen one of these punt guns while visiting the Irish Fishing and Shooting Museum near Durrow in Laois.

Forky,

The Museum is well worth stopping and taking a gander. Large display of fly's and fishing kit.

NeoR,

roadkill fox rubix cubes

:D
Never thought of it that way.:D

johngalway

This thread has developed really well, my thanks to all who have and continue to reply

meathstevie

Purely hypothetical now but it can't be impossible to get licenced for the necessary quantities of powder. In the end you're talking about a fairly low end explosive licenced fireworks artists would have in considerable quantities. If you took all the powder out of your cartridge and bullet allowance on your
licence(s) you'd have something a good bit more powerfull than one discharge of powder for a puntgun.

kowloon

I would imagine you wouldn't get many bangs for the amount of black powder you're allowed actually keep.
On the other hand, how many times would you shoot a cannon like that?


Think i'll add that museum to the list of places to bike to when the weathers good again.

CJhaughey

There is one in the Maritime museum in Greencastle Co. Donegal it mounted to a punt.
Quite the impressive piece of machinery.
But I saw an even more impressive piece of antiquarian firearms history during the week.
The Kongsberg Vapenfabbrik M52 Harpoon Gun apparently used for small Whales , Dolphins, Seals, Sharks, Tuna and Swordfish.
It uses 1.3 grams of ballistite to propel the harpoon and is based on a mauser action.
I think it was used in Jaws.

meathstevie

Also see line guns. Would have been very similar. Based on an ordinary rifle, Kar98, M1, Lee Enfield etc etc and modified to shoot a harpoon like contraption with light weight line attached from ship to ship.

2347

meathstevie wrote: »

you could start the Galway Light Artillery..

Why stop there? :D

astraboy

How were these actually fired? I mean, were they tied to the front of a small boat or what, because it looks like they pack an almighty punch!

CJhaughey

astraboy wrote: »

How were these actually fired? I mean, were they tied to the front of a small boat or what, because it looks like they pack an almighty punch!

Not tied to a punt, these cannons were actually built on to a punt, the recoil would have been fairly substantial.
I read an account where one shot accounted for something like thirty six ducks and a fair few injured as well.

Double Barrel

From 'The New Wildfowler' by Nick Frearson.

"There are basically two methods of absorbing the recoil of punt-guns, the boot-jack system having now more or less been consigned to history."

"The simplest arrangement is the use of a breeching rope passed through a hole in the stem of the punt, laid along her foredeck and attached to trunnions on either side of the gun's barrel and positioned approximately 10-12in. behind its point of balance. Some guns have provision for the rope to be threaded through the stock itself."

Ch. 15, Punt Gunning ( pp127-135, )

There are more complicated recoil spring systems "....the barrel is mounted on a spring-loaded swivel stanchion which drops into a sliding block on the punt's floor, the block itself being attached to the punt's stem by a breeching rope led underneath the foredeck."


BTW the 4 bore is considered to be the smallest of the puntguns.

Double Barrel

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is the law I quotes,
For the flats where the sea-grass roots:-
"Where the tide flows .......I floats,
and where I floats..........I shoots".
Landed gentry may claim rights on the foreshore mud,
But ownership's all the same with a spring tide on the flood.
Mallard are reared under hens,
They guard the teal on the lake,
And it's all private ground in the fens,
But the wigion are mine to take.
Out of the dark I come towards the growing light,
The lanyard under my thumb the gun laid straight and right.
Bird watchers stretch their throats uttering dismal hoots,
But where the tide flows.......I floats,
And where I floats.........I shoots.
- Anon

Double Barrel

astraboy wrote: »

How were these actually fired? I mean, were they tied to the front of a small boat or what, because it looks like they pack an almighty punch!

A punt and gun secured to absorb recoil.

Double Barrel

Astraboy,
Take a look at the 'ears' -for want of a better word- which would be 'trunnions' on the side of the gun, the rope is slung over the trunnions securing the gun when fired.

A new puntgun built by Alan Myers, proofed for 32 ozs of shot.



Photo courtesy of the internet.

Auldloon

Great thread.Double barrel your a mine of info, please keep it coming:)

Double Barrel

Chuileog,

Great thread for sure.

At one time I had 'the fever' to build one and in the process did quite a bit if research. I have not abandoned the idea and will probably give it a go when time permits. I have the wherewithal (timber, equipment & some knowledge) to build the punt but the gun will have to be farmed out to the tune of 3 - 8 thousand and powder is still an obstacle.

revan23

i dont get how you can kill a dozen birds in one shot tho unless you line them all up neatly in a row