What Happens To Tips!!!

HUSH HUSH

Just a quick question that maybe all card room managers, casino employees and event co-ordinators may like to comment on.

I was recently talking to an employee of a casino in Ireland who told me that the management of his place of work witheld 25% of all tips left by the customers to cover some of the overheads involved in the day to day running of the casino.:mad::mad::mad:

I was just wondering if this is the norm?:eek:

I (naively) was always under the impression that the staff would get 100% of the tips.:eek:



As Xmas is coming up and there are a few big poker festivals and the seasonal goodwill coinciding there will be alot of people being extra generous with their tips over the coming 6 weeks or so...

So come on BigSlick, Bank Casino, Cool Hand Lukes, Macau and the Cue Club and anyone else who uses this forum for advertising purposes could you please state you policy with respect to tips for staff and how you distribute them.......

And if there are any casino employees out there who would like to comment feel free ( and name and shame if necessary).

carfax

Tips should be 100% given to staff with full transparency.

If organisers need more money to cover overheads then they should be charging more rake/reg. When I as a player tip the dealers I expect the full amount to go to the people that I am tipping.

Thats why I was a bit disappointed this year to hear that a cash dealer at the IPO had thrown away our rake sheet and decided to charge the normal casino rake (players were told that the cash games were high rake before sitting down).....After months of promotion, hard work and all the rest this person took it upon themselves to take away our one chance to make a few extra quid at the event. (We still didn't touch his tips though).

JP Poker

Hi Sid,

At all of my self dealt games (final table or last 2 tables dealer dealt) all tips are pooled and divided evenly between the staff that worked that night, i.e. Desk staff, TD (this would normally be only 2/3 people and if i am one of them i don't take any tips).


At my games which are dealer dealt,

Tips from tournie, SnG's and cash are all pooled and 100% of the tips are given back to dealers on a pro rata basis of hours worked.

While we are on the subject, i do think that for festivals there is a case to be made that a certain small % of the total tips could be paid to the desk staff, people who organise/set up SnG's as they all contribute to the service that is provided.

However i don't think the organiser, casino or anyone with a shared interest in the venture should benefit from any tips as they get a share of the profits.

semibluff

i know of one Fine establishment of a casino that withholds all tips given if the casino as a whole has a losing night. (this was definetly the case 18months ago)

ITT-Pat

semibluff wrote: »

i know of one Fine establishment of a casino that withholds all tips given if the casino as a whole has a losing night. (this was definetly the case 18months ago)

How fine??

semibluff

as fine as your sarcasm meter - sorta place you'd also play elctronic roullette

ITT-Pat

semibluff wrote: »

as fine as your sarcasm meter - sorta place you'd also play elctronic roullette

hahaha, i did get the sarcasm!

mocata

I can only assume the same place doubled/trebled their dealers tips if the house had a bumper night's profit?

Ste05

mocata wrote: »

I can only assume the same place doubled/trebled their dealers tips if the house had a bumper night's profit?

obviously :rolleyes: pfft!!

bohsman

CHLs staff get 100% of tips.

Lauralashes

At Big Slick main events all tips from the tournament and cash tables are pooled and divided amongst all dealers that worked the event on an hourly pro-rata basis. We do also include our cash desk staff in the tips as without them there wouldn't be a smoothly run tournament. None of the organisers, promoters etc receive a share of the tips and all tips are fully transparent to the Dealer Manager from the cash desk at any stage throughout the Festivals. Dealers receive 100% of the tips.

Laura

semibluff

mocata wrote: »

I can only assume the same place doubled/trebled their dealers tips if the house had a bumper night's profit?

ROFL:D:D

Sirtoyou

If you knew this was going on would/should you still tip?
If you dont are you not punishing the staff even more?
Is there any other way to show your appreciation without tipping when you know your also tipping the casino owner?
I need to know as I feel caught between a rock and a hard place as I play in such an establishment and dont know what to do.

Lplate

Re Munster Poker Tour and Cue Club. All tips for tournaments and cash games are pooled and divided pro-rata (hours worked) between the dealers. 100% of tips are given 100% of the time.
Anything else is a disgrace imo.

BIG-SLICK-POKER

All our tips per event are pooled from cash and tournie . Totalled and divided out per hours worked in the fairness of it all ..

If the Club dealers keep there own tips but in general they pool it .. I recieved my first tip this year .. STAY OFF THE MIC

PokerPissTaker

I know this story and I know it to be true. It has been said to me by several dealers in this est. and all I can say is fair dues to them After all how else can you pay a mortgage on staff premises that you own and buy fancy sports cars and afford some sort of miracle cure for that well known crippling disease Obesity Although I hear the end of the 2 for 1 deal in Abrakebabra had a lot to do with it

Caboose

At the Bank, tips are all pooled and distributed 100%. For special occassions if its a good week a small percentage (under 10%) is withheld and put towards a night out for the staff. Management put towards the night out as well.

This is usually held over two nights to make sure every staff member can attend. I can only remember some of the last staff party.... at least I got home with all my clothes on (I think)

For anyone who does hold back you have to remember something, your staff are your greatest assets. Take care of them!

To all who have tipped in the past, are still tipping and will tip in the future, Thank you, from a dealer's perspective and a management perspective.

Caboose

Goodluck2me

JP Poker wrote: »

Tips from tournie, SnG's and cash are all pooled and 100% of the tips are given back to dealers on a pro rata basis of hours worked.

QFT

bohsman wrote: »

CHLs staff get 100% of tips.

QFT

JP is who i work for regularly and recieve tips on time at the same time every week to the nearest Euro. He is very transparant and honest, something which other people I have worked for havent been, but the industry is certainly getting better and its is all becoming more and more above board.

Edit to say: To Echo cabooses comments, that tips are an intergral part of any dealers earnigns and without them I can assure the players that it simply wouldnt be viable to work. I think its also very important for players to liaise with the dealers to check that all tips given are recieved to maintain the integrity of the system. If players topped tipping then the standard of dealers would certainly plummet as noon ewould do the job for more than a small time until something better came along, if at all. So I certainly thank anyone who tips me and my peers when playing.

DeVore

I think that the floorman should get a cut of the tips for the night as they do an important job. ie: 13 dealers on the floor, the tips get pooled and divided by 14.

The exception to this would be where the floorman is also the owner in which case I think the dealers should get 100%

In GJP games, we have never taken a share from the dealers tips even on days when we didnt break even.

The difference between being dealt to by a dealer who enjoys his work place and one who despises the management is palpable.

DeV.

Caboose

DeVore wrote: »

The difference between being dealt to by a dealer who enjoys his work place and one who despises the management is palpable.

DeV.

Never a truer word spoken

Kazzehh

A little less than a year ago I found myself alone in Cork for work. I had read about the Macu here and decided to check it out. Played my 1st ever live tournie in a casino and was very impressed with the place and the service. Think the tournie was a 20 rebuy or something on a weeknight. Ended up coming first and won close to 1000, was my first time in a casino and was unsure about tipping etc... naturally I was over the moon and wanted to show my apprication to the dealers, in particular the dealer that had dealt most of final table and was extremely helpful during the night (had to be corrected few times bout cards/chips over the line etc coz usually only play pub games) when I approached the desk to collect my winnings from whom I pressume was the TD this dealer was standing close by, I handed him 100 and he told me he wasnt allowed to take it, the TD was at this stage in earshot and said something about the tips being pooled and if I still wanted to I could leave a tip with him. Was unsure about how much to leave and to be honest felt a bit underpressure. I handed him 150, thanked the dealer that I wanted to tip and left. I understand that it may have been unfair to give a tip to just one dealer when I saw probally 5 throughout the night and also got a cup of coffee but I also thought it was unfair that he was "not allowed" to accept a personal tip that I for whatever reasons really wanted him to have. Do the tipping rules differ for tournies and cash games? I thought if I tipped a dealer at a cash table the tip is theirs and not shared??? I always wondered how much if any did my favourite dealer see of that tip as it seemed to be a very busy place with lots of staff working.

bohsman

150 from 1k is far too much, 50max per 1k won, lower the more you win is standard. Usually the dealer would thank you for the tip you thought you were giving him personally and then hand it in to be pooled.

DeVore

Also, go in to a professional casino and try and actually hand one of the croupiers a bank note. They can't take it from your hand, it must be put on the felt (this usually applies to Blackjack more then poker)... I have seen a country farmer MOST confused by this when a latvian lady wouldnt take the bunch of 50's he was waving at her in the Fitz

I dont think I've seen anywhere in Ireland where the tips werent pooled and shared, otherwise the final table would have a scrum of dealers looking to deal it.

DeV.

Likewise the Omaha cash tables presumably. If one was allowed to keep the tips personally offered at a cash table, I'd break my balls to try and get a decent omaha table as bigger pots = bigger/more tips.

Goodluck2me

DeVore wrote: »

I dont think I've seen anywhere in Ireland where the tips werent pooled and shared, otherwise the final table would have a scrum of dealers looking to deal it.

DeV.

I agree with this, the slip side however is that some dealers could be inclined not to do such a great job as they will be paid regardless, or reverse it If one dealer is especially good and all the players loved them, and the rest of the dealers were terrible, then there is a case that person should get more.

In cash games for example if you kept your own tips you would have a huge incentive to deal more hand p/h, and give a better service. Its hard to balance the two though

Imposter

Afaik (and this is by no means certian) the dealers over here have to give the casino something like 8€ per half hour and over that they can keep the rest. This goes towards paying their wages but still encourages them to deal quick.

Tar.Aldarion

carfax wrote:

(players were told that the cash games were high rake before sitting down)

No, well I wasn't anyway. I did ask later what it was though...

carfax

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

No, well I wasn't anyway. I did ask later what it was though...

Way off topic comment by me in the first place but may as well keep it going now;

The message for staff (from me) at the start of the day was that they were dealing high rake cash games and that players should be told this. Every table should also have had a sheet with the rate.

I'm sure you were able to see what the rake was after a hand or two anyway

The reason for this isn't greed or anything like it, I worked for a good while with Poker Events and the one thing that caused that company to lose vast sums of money on a regular basis was that they didn't run high rake cash games at their culminating/final tournaments. In venues like the RDS we will probably always run cash games with that type of rake in order to try to keep our heads above water.

phantom_lord

surely the tournament players should be the ones playing for the cost of running the event?

RedJoker

I dealt blackjack and roulette in a casino in Cork over the Summer where the casino kept 100% of the tips, I'm not going to name them although it shouldn't be too difficult to work out tbh.

JP Poker

phantom_lord wrote: »

surely the tournament players should be the ones playing for the cost of running the event?

Hi Phantom,

I'm not trying to defend anyone here, but from running tournaments in hotels ect. I know for a fact they are ran at a loss with the hope that the SnG's and cash cover the remaining cost and make the event profitable.

carfax

phantom_lord wrote: »

surely the tournament players should be the ones playing for the cost of running the event?

Its a fine line between paying a reg fee you hope will still allow you to make a profit in the long term (from the players point of view here) and organising a tournament that does not cost you money or that makes you a profit (from the organisers point of view).

mocata

I am sure no-one would begrudge tournament organisers that post here a profit, to be honest they should count their blessings. One of my friends recently attended a poker tournament where there were 138 players @ €110 + optional €50 . i would estimate they took in c. 20k and the payout was 12k. Wasnt even dealer dealt!

jem

cpt???

RoundTower

DeVore wrote: »

I think that the floorman should get a cut of the tips for the night as they do an important job. ie: 13 dealers on the floor, the tips get pooled and divided by 14.

I'm not sure where I stand on this. I think for tips to work properly they should be kept, not pooled. Otherwise there's not much difference between relying on "discretionary" "tips" or just increasing rake/reg and paying dealers more, except that the latter looks better to the punter. If dealers keep their own tips they have a huge incentive to be better/faster dealers.

In America the floormen get tips all the time (aside from AC I believe). If you want to make sure you get in a game, if you want to make sure you get comped, if you want to get to change to the juicy game first, you tip the floor. This is a bad way to run business, essentially you are bribing the floorman. It makes it hard for the floorman to rule evenly and fairly, if for example a dispute comes up between a heavy tipping regular and a non tipping tourist. Even if a given floorman can be impartial, it creates the impression of unfairness.

Ideally I would have the dealers keep their own tips and either tip out (give a %) to the floor at the end of the night, or just pay the floormen more out of the rake.

RoundTower

BTW I don't think PokerEvents have commented on their stance yet in this thread. As a former PokerEvents dealer I'm in a position to tell you neither I nor the charity of my choice have seen a penny of my tips. Despite the matter coming up on boards more than once.

PokerPissTaker

jem wrote: »

cpt???

Sounds like it I was at one of there events where they took 22k and paid out 12300 including on the spot prizes for high hand and things

I asked whe there was 29 players left what the chip average was and they said they didn't know So I asked how many chips where in play and they didn't know I asked was he serious He replied "why do you need to know?"

PokerPissTaker

Back to the issue in hand who has still to comment on there procedure

I for one think this is a vital piece of information that all casinos I think should be obliged to disclose

sitout

just read this and tbh im shocked . if i had to work till 5/6 in the morning only to be told that the house has not made its target and we will be dipping into your tips id flip my lid. Its almost unbelivable !

semibluff

agree with sitout - iver recently stopped tipping here, as there is a large chance its still happening

Goodluck2me

sitout wrote: »

just read this and tbh im shocked . if i had to work till 5/6 in the morning only to be told that the house has not made its target and we will be dipping into your tips id flip my lid. Its almost unbelivable !

QFT

DapperGent

phantom_lord wrote: »

surely the tournament players should be the ones playing for the cost of running the event?

At the same time the sweet drunken hotel cash games wouldn't be there without the event.

DeVore

I have a quiet word with a dealer on a smoke break to find out what the situation is with the tips before tipping at a tournie. They will usually give you the skinny.

The only people who should get a % of the tips are the dealers and imho the floorman at the end of the night.

DeV.

connie147

As we are a family run club, 100% of all tips go to the dealers. They work hard enough and deserve all they get.

As for the outside events we run in league with the munster poker tour,100% of tips go to the dealers. Any floormen employed will get a bit extra after the event but that doesnt come out of the dealers tips.

tricky D

Some points fwiw...

Tips are between players and staff, management have no business taking a cut, they just process them.

I reckon the floor should get a cut as they contribute to the service (of course I would!).

Some rooms distribute using a tip point or a rate depending on service, experience and amount of tips generated.

Tips also form part of your contract 'by practice' even though they are rarely set out in black and white partly to keep them in the gray area tax-wise.

Some rooms retain an excess from the good months to make up for the bad ones - fine if it all gets paid out.

D.C.C

Tips should be pooled 100% between the dealers and casino staff...But lets not all be naive and believe this is what happens commonly around the world.I have worked in countrys such as Switzerland where tips are witheld up to 100% by the casinos.Mostly all the casinos ranging between 25%-50% witheld.
The reason being casinos see tips as loss of revenue and rightly so if the chips are dropped as tips the casino cant win them.I am not saying it is right but it is common place in european casinos.The reason tipping stopped in the U.K was because of just this when the companies began to realise what drop they were losing....
In Ireland most casinos do pool 100% and i wouldnt work for one who didnt to be honest,but i do understand the reasoning why some of the bigger casino might withold some percentage of tips.Also in some cases casinos use the tips to pay for staff accomadation,is this correct who knows,but if the staff are happy working for what they get and its transparent what is going on not just taking tips without anyone knowing the casinos are doing nothing underhand or wrong IMO

mormank

i am still waiting for my tips from dealing the poker events all ireland team event over a year ago..remember the inter county one. still have received no tips from that. so yeah, good question!!! what happened to the tips from that one?? anyone from poker events care to answer before ye try to get dealers to deal at your IPC event in january..

smurph

Question,
The weekend in Waterford,
Paid directly into the €500 game although it was profit from cash game previous night.

Main Event
€550 entry - won €1,100 coming 16th
Profit €550

€150 + €20 paid in directly - won €300 - coming 12th
Profit €130

total profit for 2 events €690. would you leave a tip for the dealers here and if so how much and how much????

connie147

smurph wrote: »

Question,
The weekend in Waterford,
Paid directly into the €500 game although it was profit from cash game previous night.

Main Event
€550 entry - won €1,100 coming 16th
Profit €550

€150 + €20 paid in directly - won €300 - coming 12th
Profit €130

total profit for 2 events €690. would you leave a tip for the dealers here and if so how much and how much????

I wouldnt expect people that far down the list to tip out of their modest profit. In the ME,I would expect anybody getting over 2k to start tipping from there up, which basically would be top 10.

smurph

Yeah I wasn't too sure about It. I didn't want to play cash after getting knocked out of the main even, because I was a little bit tilty so I played the €150 game instead, and vented by working my stack from 8K down to 3K before working it back up again.

when I got the money for 12th I stood there thinking for a while and decided by playing the €150 game I had actually saved myself money and left couple of quid at desk for the dealers.......

hope this doesn't come across as a "Oh look at me im so good kinda post", I was just wonder at what stage do you tip, Final table etc.,

thanks Connie,

5starpool

Ya, I would need to be further up the pay list in general to be tipping Smurph (and that is a rare event these days anyhow!!). Obviously it depends on the amount though, but in your case I probably wouldn't, but I may leave a gesture tip of €50 maybe if I was leaving anything.