Silly trade in price at large MINI dealership

.Longshanks.

Ned, do you ever get fed up having to defend yourself around here?:D
If i was ever in the market for a MINI i make the effort to take a spin to Cork to see you!

kona

ned78 wrote: »

Mother of God, I didn't think people like you still existed outside the IMOC. The BMW MINI (Not the Bini, despite what you think) is every bit as much fun as the original. Most of the people in my MINI Club have both the new, and the classic. And most of the people we've found who criticise the newer type, have never spent anything longer than 5 minutes around them. They're both excellent cars, and as much as I love the new model, I adore the classics also. But horses for courses, the new MINI for Monday to Friday, the classics for the weekend.

Unfortunately, people place the classic on a pedestal, and no one dares knock it off. Despite the classics dissolving in the rain, despite numerous electrical and mechanical issues that regularly crop up, and despite a woeful safety record. People like you also seem to conveniently forget that from 1996 onwards, all classic Minis manufactured up until 2001 were actually built by BMW. So without BMW, you wouldn't have had the Sportpack Cooper most classic enthusiasts aspire to from 1996 on.

Oh, and forget about 'dropping' a type r integra engine in - you might have 10k left, but you'll be dead in the event of an accident, and never be able to recoup the investment (One individual on carzone tried to sell one, and then gave up on the idea months later when no one bought it). I've driven a Clubman GT with an Integra engine put in by an individual. They're ropey, loose, and downright dangerous. If you want to do it properly, get a Z car built from the ground up. One of our Club members is doing just that and spending 28k on restoring an A series classic. And surprise surprise, he has 2 classics, and 2 new MINIs aswell. You see ... a real enthusiast loves all MINIs/Minis, you're just bitter about progress.

However, if you want to see what a real car is like, you're more than welcome to take a spin in my Cooper S Works. It outperforms any other Mini and MINI I've driven, and has exceptional handling. Oh, and it wasn't too expensive either. But maybe, that'll shatter you're illusion, and you don't want that.

i own a 91 1380 cooper, and have driven the new mini for more than 2hrs.
the new mini is **** compared to the old one, yes the old one rusts, yes it needs work done every now and again, but in my opinion id rather be in the pissing rain trying to change a cv joint or a oil seal than driving around in a overrated, over-priced piece of modern rubbish. although id prob take the new mini over most other things on the road.
classic mini prices are overpriced too...no way would i give over e5000 for a classic mini, id only give 5k for somthing really special or rare.id hate to own a sports pack, a set of group2 arches over a set of 10" split rims would do nicely. the mini is about handling and not speed, 13" wheels screw both.
the new mini is called a mini, but there is nothing mini about it....just like the new clubman, aint a clubman at all.

colm_mcm

the new mini is actually called a MINI

kona

colm_mcm wrote: »

the new mini is actually called a MINI

wouldnt if i had anything to do with it,

colm_mcm

ideally a new Golf would be as nimble as a MK1 GTI, all beetles would still use air cooled engines, and MINI's would still be tiny. It doesn't work like that though. Manufacturers have to be able to sell cars too!

E92

kona wrote: »

wouldnt if i had anything to do with it,

Well it is, so as to distinguish between the one designed by Sir Alec Issagonis, and the ones designed by BMW.

And by the way, the old one wasn't a mini, its was a Mini:D! I don't see anything wrong with capitalising the word Mini, You don't have e30's or e39's or Bmw's, you have E30's, E39's, and BMW's.

And as someone who is a Mini enthusiast, you should be well aware the reason why the MINI Clubman is called the Clubman and not the Traveller or Countryman.

colm_mcm

E92 wrote: »

You don't have e30's or e39's or Bmw's, you have E30's, E39's, and BMW's.

In every thread seemingly

Guy:Incognito

colm_mcm wrote: »

In every thread seemingly

Which reminds me, the Octavia has been woefully underdiscussed lately.

colm_mcm

I know, still at only 37% I was expecting more.

Owen

Longshanks100 wrote: »

Ned, do you ever get fed up having to defend yourself around here?:D
If i was ever in the market for a MINI i make the effort to take a spin to Cork to see you!

Cheers buddy, and yes, it does get old alright To be honest though, the majority of posters in the Motors forum are well versed, well rounded car nuts, and that's a great thing. But as the tayto ad says ... "There's always one".

kona

colm_mcm wrote: »

ideally a new Golf would be as nimble as a MK1 GTI, all beetles would still use air cooled engines, and MINI's would still be tiny. It doesn't work like that though. Manufacturers have to be able to sell cars too!

by making them boring??full of safty crap??? screw that any car i buy is gunna be fun, not a armchair on wheels

Owen

kona wrote: »

full of safty crap???

Safty crap? I'm guessing you mean 'safety crap'. And TBH, if you think airbags, abs, traction control and NCAP ratings are crap, then you're probably inexperienced, or young, or both.

kona

ned78 wrote: »

Safty crap?

saftry crap saves your life yes...but to what quality?? this is waaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy off the topic so i aint goin there.

wasnt the clubman the flat nosed front designed by the ford designer?? and blmc were too cheap to let him design the back, so stuck the flat front on the mini??or Mini. then it came in a 1275gt, a 998 and the estate and van variants(possibly a 1100cc too not sure)???no??
the new BINI clubman looks more like the clubman estate tbh, the roundnose countryman had wood pannelling??no??

Golferx

Another aspect of Car Sales, in Ireland, is the wholesale breaches of fair competition law. It is absolutely illegal for any sales person to call a competitor to solicit information about the "value" they should place on a trade in.

If, for example, BMW dealer is asked to value a VW Golf for a trade in, and the sales person calls the VW dealer to get a value on the car, he is in breach of competition law. Fair practice would ensure the sales guy should know what the market price for the car is and he should work off that figure. When two sales people, for different dealers, agree such a valuation, you can be guaranteed the consumer/customer is the one losing out. If this was tried in the USA the dealers would be locked up in no time.


However, this is Ireland and there is no such thing as competition, and it's all fully sanctioned by the Govt. Specifically, for the Motor Industry, the method of calculating OMSP for new cars is so corrupt, a collusion between ONE importer and the Revenue, for each marque, that any Legal challenge to it's fairness would win hands down.

copacetic

kona wrote: »

saftry crap saves your life yes...but to what quality??

:rolleyes:

Owen

Golferx wrote: »

Another aspect of Car Sales, in Ireland, is the wholesale breaches of fair competition law. It is absolutely illegal for any sales person to call a competitor to solicit information about the "value" they should place on a trade in.

If, for example, BMW dealer is asked to value a VW Golf for a trade in, and the sales person calls the VW dealer to get a value on the car, he is in breach of competition law. Fair practice would ensure the sales guy should know what the market price for the car is and he should work off that figure. When two sales people, for different dealers, agree such a valuation, you can be guaranteed the consumer/customer is the one losing out. If this was tried in the USA the dealers would be locked up in no time.

You couldn't be more wrong. You're thoroughly entitled to call anyone you wish to establish what the market value of the car is. You're not actually agreeing anything, you're getting advice, and it's up to you then to figure out what to sell it for. Often, the reason dealers phone each other is to ask the other garage to actually underwrite, or buy the trade-in before it arrives at the dealership. Neither of those two scenarios amount to price fixing.

Eoin

ned78 wrote: »

Of course you do, you have Google. But if I was to meet you in the street, and ask you about what exactly a new Quattroporte Masserati has as standard, you probably wouldn't be able to tell me. Extreme example? Of course. But if a Kia rolled up to my garage, I honestly wouldn't be able to tell what's optional, and what's standard without resorting to phoning a Kia garage, or going online. We're not oracles, nor do we claim to be.

It's a different thing though if someone bullsh*ts about knowing the spec. If I don't know, I'll just say I don't know, and I'll note down all the equipment in the car, standard or otherwise. 9 times out of 10, the customer respects that.

You're dead right, and I don't agree with the IT analogy given earlier. Certainly, if you are selling a car, I would expect you to know the spec and an idea of how it compares to other models, but not expect you to know the spec of any car that just rolls up.

I admit I haven't driven the new MINI yet but I do believe you that it is an excellent drive. I can also attest first hand to the many problems of the original mini - but I do think that something intangible was lost in the translation. I'm not a rabid anti-MINI type person though.

Golferx

ned78 wrote: »

You couldn't be more wrong. You're thoroughly entitled to call anyone you wish to establish what the market value of the car is. You're not actually agreeing anything, you're getting advice, and it's up to you then to figure out what to sell it for. Often, the reason dealers phone each other is to ask the other garage to actually underwrite, or buy the trade-in before it arrives at the dealership. Neither of those two scenarios amount to price fixing.

Ned, you need to study Anti-trust law.

Contacting a competitor to discuss such matters is 100% illegal and anti-competitive. However, as I said, this is Ireland and such activity is encouraged, not condemned. The calling, and as you described it, IS price fixing.

One can study freely advertised market prices to ascertain the value of a car, but one cannot contact competition.

Try go to all the dealers in Meath (as an example) with a Freelander )as an example) to trade in. I guarantee you the non-LR dealers will call Newgate, in Navan, for a valuation of the car. Now, tell me how is that fair?

So, Ned, the next time you call a competitor to value a trade-in, do so safely in the knowledge what you are doing is anti-competitive and illegal and just another way of shafting the consumer. Just because you're not being pulled up at the moment does not make it right.

Owen

You know, I had a big long reply written and submitted to this thread, pointing out the many many errors, but what the hey. You're right Golferx, and the entire Motor Trade is wrong.

Golferx

I saw your reply (Before you deleted it) and, you know what?

It sums up , perfectly, the work practice in the Motor Trade in Ireland.
It is illegal and corrupt. The consumer is losing out due to the price fixing that is endemic.

(Only looking for advice ? Yeah, right, safe in the knowledge that the "price" you offer is what the poor punter is going to get everywhere else.)

I'm not denying any motor trader the right to earn a living, honestly. The way the system operates now is not honest. In my example the Freelander owner will not get a fair price, because it is fixed by the Main Dealer.

Oh, and you do need to study Anti-trust Law!

Owen

Golferx wrote: »

I saw your reply (Before you deleted it) and, you know what? It sums up , perfectly, the work practice in the Motor Trade in Ireland. It is illegal and corrupt.

It did nothing of the sort, as you're still jumping to conclusions. However, as you're obviously fully convinced you're right, there's little point in debating the point with you.

kona

copacetic wrote: »

:rolleyes:

roll eyes at you too.:rolleyes:

TheDriver

It brings me to another question, can someone with say a Ford walk into a ford garage and they could get the required mini new and you could get a semi decent trade in, likewise with a volkswagon? Fair enough, your not buying their marque but its still business?

-Chris-

TheDriver wrote: »

It brings me to another question, can someone with say a Ford walk into a ford garage and they could get the required mini new and you could get a semi decent trade in, likewise with a volkswagon? Fair enough, your not buying their marque but its still business?

Nope, because as Ned's already detailed, the trade value of your Ford is what your Ford is worth. If you trade your Ford into a MINI dealer and they sell it on to the Ford dealer, or if you sell it to the Ford dealer directly, you'll get the same amount of trade value (within a hundred-ish Euro).

The difference is trade value versus trade-in value...

What you're allowed as a trade-in is based on the discount available in the new car added to the trade value of the trade-in.
In your example, even though you're trading in to a Ford dealer, you'll still be working with the same discount structure in the MINI (probably less, as the MINI dealer won't sell a MINI to the Ford dealer for cost price).

I'd say in the best case scenario, your plan will be cost-neutral.

seamy_orr

drdre wrote: »

18k is good for your car with high milage.Also its a 1.6 so hard to shift.He might give you abit more if you talk to him nicely.

Spot the dealer. So 32k kms is high mileage now is it??? Get a grip

Eoin

seamy_orr wrote: »

Spot the dealer. So 32k kms is high mileage now is it??? Get a grip

drdre is many things, but not a car dealer.

Mr.Boots

I realy dont understand this trade in value thing at all!!!!
All salesmen seem to have the guide book on the desk which they flick through to look for the value of your car.....then they go and consult the boss in another silly little glass walled office....then they offer you coffee..... then they call their mate in another dealers.....then they look at carzone to see what your car is selling for........then they tap away on an old, well used calculator...then they give you "The Price To Change".....which they write down for you on the back of a business card.....which has their wrong mobile number on it.....which they correct with a pen
If they all work off the same "BOOK VALUE" then why do i always get values that differ hugely (up to 10k) from dealer to dealer.
It always seems to be the big Glass and Steel showroomed dealers pay the least.....i guess something has to pay for it.

Bendihorse

I went into a main MINI dealer in the northwest recently with my 04 Cooper (Chilli pack, JCW Lookalike in mint condition) theres 60k miles on the clock (a bit high perhaps but it had the TLC pack and FSH, just NCT'd, new tyres and just serviced) she offered me 13k for it in exchange for a new cooper s with all the trimmings. I laughed.

As part of her sales pitch she tired to get me to buy another cooper, i said no way that i wanted a cooper s or nothing, she asked why and i said i wanted more power to which she replied 'the coopers are very powerful too you know, are you sure a few of the horses haven't escaped out from under your bonnett' -at which point i nearly got sick at her feeble attempt at pretending she knew all about cars and power and trying to talk like 'one of the lads' and left.

My boyfriend and I both agreed that we wouldn't buy a bag of spuds off her. 13k, pffffft.

Cyrus

i cant get over this thread, had to laugh at the op, valuing golf at 21/22 and reckoning hed get a 4k discount on the mini :rolleyes:

two things:

1) if you get a trade in the asking price for the car wont budge, all you can negotiate is your trade in value

2) YOU WILL BE SHAFTED, you never get what you expect.

My advice, sell privately and go in with cash to offer.

If thats too much hassle, pull your pants down and walk in for an easy trade in

TheDriver

Selling privately is never the easiest though, thats the problem