Couldn't get petrol untill I stopped mobile phonecall

connundrum

Hey,

I know all petrol stations carry a sign saying no smoking and switch off your lights. Some also carry a sign saying switch off your mobile.

Today I was trying to get petrol at the local Statoil and took a phone call as I was getting out of the car. I put the nozzle into the tank and tried to start the whole process, but the pump didn't kick in. I looked over at the service window and the woman at the cash register was signalling to me to put the phone down.

I put the phone down and she turned the pump on. I was just wondering if this is normal practice? I thought that this myth was put to be a couple of years ago? Article

seamus

connundrum wrote: »

I put the phone down and she turned the pump on. I was just wondering if this is normal practice? I thought that this myth was put to be a couple of years ago? Article

The Myth was put to bed pretty much as soon as it appeared, but because the pumps say it, you have people paranoid about it. It's a whole "fear of the unknown thing". I remember filling up my bike, paying for my petrol and then making a phonecall. Next thing the guy inside is saying something incomprehensible over the speakers. I put my finger into my ear to block it out. When I finished the call, the guy was running out the door waving his arms at me then pointing at my phone. I just :rolleyes: and drove off.

CarLover

That's nothing...I fly a lot through business. Last few flights I've been on...people are turning on their phones whilst the plane is landing.

Flew in from Eastern Europe last friday...heard about two phones being switched on a good 5-10 minutes before the plane touched down...

C_Breeze

not un common. I stepped out of my car while chatting on the fone ... and they only switched the pump on once i hung up.

Urban myth or not, if they have signs there saying no phones you have to obey it

Owen

Yup, I had a huge row with a guy one day about it too. Still got my Petrol, and met the same guy years later through a mutual club, and he admitted that the Petrol Stations had since relaxed their policy.

thewing

I often leave my phone on while flying...always forget..

seamus

CarLover wrote: »

That's nothing...I fly a lot through business. Last few flights I've been on...people are turning on their phones whilst the plane is landing.

Flew in from Eastern Europe last friday...heard about two phones being switched on a good 5-10 minutes before the plane touched down...

Another fallacy
The stakes are higher, but there's zero risk in modern equipment. The EU is even considering lifting the ban.

green123

CarLover wrote: »

That's nothing...I fly a lot through business. Last few flights I've been on...people are turning on their phones whilst the plane is landing.

Flew in from Eastern Europe last friday...heard about two phones being switched on a good 5-10 minutes before the plane touched down...

so what ?
phones dont cause any problems.
if their was a chance they caused a problem they would be alot stricter about this and do more to stop it

Owen

CarLover wrote: »

That's nothing...I fly a lot through business. Last few flights I've been on...people are turning on their phones whilst the plane is landing. Flew in from Eastern Europe last friday...heard about two phones being switched on a good 5-10 minutes before the plane touched down...

Doesn't matter a damn. In fact, Virgin are considering offering inflight phone calls using your mobile. As a Pilot of light aircraft (Which have simpler electronics, and should be more susceptible) - I've yet to have an issue. It's actually recommended to carry one in case your transceiver dies on board and you need to contact the tower.

prendy

Another fallacy
The stakes are higher, but there's zero risk in modern equipment. The EU is even considering lifting the ban

i hope they dont...its nice not havin to listen to other peoples annoyin phone conversations...it'l be like on the buses if they lift the ban!:(

Zulu

CarLover wrote: »

That's nothing...I fly a lot through business. Last few flights I've been on...people are turning on their phones whilst the plane is landing.

Flew in from Eastern Europe last friday...heard about two phones being switched on a good 5-10 minutes before the plane touched down...

Personally I never switch off my phone. It's a total sham that you have to.
...besides, in todays society where you can't bring more than 100ml on a flight, do you think they'd let you bring your phone if there really was a risk?

Guy:Incognito

Zulu wrote: »

Personally I never switch off my phone. It's a total sham that you have to.

What sthe issue? All your doing it wasting power anyway because the signal goes.

MercMad

prendy wrote: »

i hope they dont...its nice not havin to listen to other peoples annoyin phone conversations...it'l be like on the buses if they lift the ban!:(

.............I agree completely !

Zulu

Stekelly wrote: »

What sthe issue? All your doing it wasting power anyway because the signal goes.

Well I use my phone for other things as well, mp3, games, watching tv shows etc.. plus you do get a signal coming in for landing etc - which I use to arrange my lift etc..

It's only a matter of time before the airlines offer their own n/w coverage.

rebel.ranter

The whole potential danger of using a mobile phone while filling stems from the potential of you dropping it while standing therewith the nozzle in your hand. The phone battery could potentially create a spark. That was the4 driver behind it not anythin to do with the RF signals coming from the phone.

As for the planes, RF interference with the planes electrics was the main reason for the ban, however it has since been proven that planes systems are more than capabale of blocking out this type of interference.
Also Ryanair are looking at introducing on-board mobile base stations very soon. There is actually a Kery based company leading the way in providing these type of telecomms solutions.

Alun

rebel.ranter wrote: »

The whole potential danger of using a mobile phone while filling stems from the potential of you dropping it while standing there with the nozzle in your hand. The phone battery could potentially create a spark.

Well, if that's the case they should ban cars from garage forecourts then as well. Plenty of potential spark causing stuff in an average car as well. Not to mention nylon underwear

Owen

rebel.ranter wrote: »

The whole potential danger of using a mobile phone while filling stems from the potential of you dropping it while standing therewith the nozzle in your hand. The phone battery could potentially create a spark. That was the4 driver behind it not anythin to do with the RF signals coming from the phone.

Then, not to question you, but why in God's name is every poster in every forecourt telling you to switch off your mobile? And if the battery is the issue, people with Hearing aids, Pagers, Car Alarm Remotes, and Watches should also be banned.

rebel.ranter

ned78 wrote: »

Then, not to question you, but why in God's name is every poster in every forecourt telling you to switch off your mobile? And if the battery is the issue, people with Hearing aids, Pagers, Car Alarm Remotes, and Watches should also be banned.

I don't know!

I just know that this was the origins of it.

Alun

ned78 wrote: »

Then, not to question you, but why in God's name is every poster in every forecourt telling you to switch off your mobile?

http://www.snopes.com/autos/hazards/gasvapor.asp

Also, reading the BBC article linked to above, it seems I wasn't too far off the mark with my comment about nylon underwear

daedalus2097

There were cases of fires at filling stations, but they were found to be caused by static from the car itself. There's never been a case of a mobile related fire at a filling station.

As an aside, I'm well aware that there's a tiny risk to an aeroplane, but it still annoys me no end when people have their phones on while landing and taxiing. Can they not survive an extra 10 minutes, no? They'll probably be queuing at passport control for 20 minutes anyway...

egan007

They totally busted that one on Mythbusters.

There is no chance - not even a single shred of chance that your mobile will cause the petrol to catch fire.

MarkN

Ned - the navigation equipment in a Grob or a Cessna is not quite the same as a 744. Interesting that Ryanair are planning mobile calls from next year all the same though. BTW, the word pilot does not have a capital P in it, no matter how prestigious you think being able to call yourself one is

I for one always thought that the main risk of a phone at a petrol pump was a spark should you drop it. A myth perhaps, I don't know, but mobiles can and do interfere with certain types of electronics (not talking about petrol pumps).

cc

i remember on "brainiac" on sky, or else top gear, either way richard hammond was involved.....they put a load of mobiles in a caravan doused in petrol and other flammable matierals and started ringing the mobiles. needless to say nothing happened....i guess the threat of an explosion is very small :cool:

wil

No it's all true, the impact of a phone shattering against the side of the pump as others patiently wait for you to finish that call to the office enquiring on variations of required breakfast rolls so that they too can avail of the very decent value petrol could cause a spark.:rolleyes:
Courtesy doesnt take all that long.

As for disobeying the no smoking signs, that would be a well deserved Darwin award.
http://video.giovani.it/zoolander-gas-fight.html

AFAIK The mobile phone in planes issue was more to do with the providers than the planes. Plane loads of mobiles flying over at speed confused the switching technology on the ground as the network tried to keep up tracking the phones from cell to cell. Probably better at it now.

seamus

Indeed, there has never been a single case of a petrol/gas station fire caused by a mobile phone.

Most such cases have occured where people light up/smoke cigarettes while filling, or what happens largely in the states, the person leaves the pump filling and returns to the vehicle. When they go back to the pump, they've accumulated static and a spark jumps between their hand and the nozzle, igniting the vapor.
There were a couple of cases where someone claimed they were on a phone at the time and there was a spontaneous burst into flames when CCTV footage showed they were actually smoking at the time.

Since most mobile phone batteries are housed within the phone and in a plastic case of its own, the chance of it sparking if the phone is dropped is negligible.

jahalpin

Is the ban on phones on planes not more to do with the effect of a fast moving phone on the base stations with contant logging on and off different base stations

Alun

MarkN wrote: »

I for one always thought that the main risk of a phone at a petrol pump was a spark should you drop it. A myth perhaps, I don't know, but mobiles can and do interfere with certain types of electronics (not talking about petrol pumps).

Well, they can interfere with badly shielded consumer level electronic equipment, yes, but I don't think there's any evidence of them interfering with properly shielded aeronautical electronics systems AFAIK.

There's also this thing about not using mobile phones in hospitals for fear of the same thing, but I know for a fact (I work in a couple of them sometimes) that even the surgeons take their mobile phones (leaving them switched on) with them into the operating theatres, and even have their nurses answer calls for them while they're operating!

Owen

MarkN wrote: »

Ned ... the word pilot does not have a capital P in it, no matter how prestigious you think being able to call yourself one is

Don't be such a conceited prick. And I'll thank you not to make assumptions about my personal self worth either.

MarkN wrote: »

the navigation equipment in a Grob or a Cessna is not quite the same as a 744

You're correct, but not in the way you'd like. A 747, or other commercial aircraft will be shielded against mobile phone, or other RF interference. A small, light aircraft will not have that shielding to the same extent.

MarkN

ned78 wrote: »

Don't be such a conceited prick. And I'll thank you not to make assumptions about my personal self worth either.

I just think you were coming across as a bit high and mighty with your 'Pilot' comment. I have friends who are airline pilots and they wouldn't write it the way you did.

Owen

MarkN wrote: »

I just think you were coming across as a bit high and mighty with your 'Pilot' comment. I have friends who are airline pilots and they wouldn't write it the way you did.

And you can judge all that by the use of a capital letter?

MarkN

Tell ya one thing, you're a great man for managing time. There's another assumption!

Advanced driving, flying planes.. you can do it all!!

Anyway, I shouldn't be encouraging you to take the thread off topic so I'm sorry.

Guy:Incognito

ned78 wrote: »

Don't be such a conceited prick. And I'll thank you not to make assumptions about my personal self worth either.
.

Prick.

Del2005

The reason you can't use your phone at a petrol pump is cause they aren't intrinsically safe and there is a slight chance that they can spark. Mythbusters aren't always correct. I heard of a person pumping petrol and using a phone that did cause a fire, was shown at a mechanics safety course. What the problem with the mythbusters and all was that the petrol wasn't under pressure, when pumping petrol there is a lot of pressurised out gassing and this can be highly explosive given the correct conditions. TBH what call is so important that you can't wait 10 min to fill the car with petrol.

Zulu

daedalus2097 wrote: »

As an aside, I'm well aware that there's a tiny risk to an aeroplane, but it still annoys me no end when people have their phones on while landing and taxiing. Can they not survive an extra 10 minutes, no? They'll probably be queuing at passport control for 20 minutes anyway...

It's not a tiny risk - it's "no" risk. And it's not about "surviving an extra 10 minutes", it's an inconvenience I shouldn't have to take. There is no reason for it, so why should I?
As for it "annoying you no end" - why? Do you normally get annoyed when someone switched on or off and electrical device?

daedalus2097

No, it's basically because there's a rule there which is there for the reason of safety and people flout it the whole time for God know what reason. Whether or not it is a real risk, it's a rule which people don't take seriously. It doesn't affect me personally, but that kind of thing annoys me, like people sitting in the overtaking lane for no good reason.

TBH what call is so important that you can't wait 10 min to fill the car with petrol.

Same applies for when a plane's landing. Okay, maybe one or two people have a really tight schedules and need to make arrangements quickly, but the majority of the plane just turn on their phones to see if they got any juicy text messages during the flight, and can't stand to be without it. It seems to be an addiction - people feel "wrong" not having their phone on. Maybe I'm alone here but I simply don't understand that. Or maybe it's just I don't have an addictive personality?

seamus

Del2005 wrote: »

The reason you can't use your phone at a petrol pump is cause they aren't intrinsically safe and there is a slight chance that they can spark. Mythbusters aren't always correct. I heard of a person pumping petrol and using a phone that did cause a fire, was shown at a mechanics safety course. What the problem with the mythbusters and all was that the petrol wasn't under pressure, when pumping petrol there is a lot of pressurised out gassing and this can be highly explosive given the correct conditions.

How so? Gas at a higher pressure naturally has more temperature, but then it's at pressure within the pump. Once it's out of the pump, some fumes escape, but the pressure is gone. Petrol isn't flammable in its liquid form, so you can't ignite the hotter pressurised petrol inside the pump, you can only ignite the vapours which escape. Mobile phones don't produce anything approaching enough heat to ignite petrol and they're electronic, not electric. Electronics don't spark.

TBH what call is so important that you can't wait 10 min to fill the car with petrol.

Why wait? There's no risk whatsoever. None.

It's the same as some people thought that microwaves were really dangerous when they first became big and that putting something metal in them would cause them to explode. Nonsense. It's the word "radiation" that has people imagining Hiroshima and completely overreacting.

deman

thewing wrote: »

I often leave my phone on while flying...always forget..

How can you forget? Are you deaf as well as forgetful? They always tell you as you taxi to take-off to switch off all electronic devices.

L1011

I've been stared at with the utter evil eyes by the person behind the counter in Esso in Laghey for making a phone call, particularly as I was pacing around the forecourt trying to make the 1-bar Meteor reception fall over so I could roam on to Vodafone...

Potential-Monke

Here's the link to the brainiac myth test, which comes up negative, and Myth Busters done a thing on it too, and they too found out that it's a load of crap. Nokia and the like say that you shouldn't use phones while filling just to cover their own arses.

cpoh1

seamus wrote: »

How so? Gas at a higher pressure naturally has more temperature, but then it's at pressure within the pump. Once it's out of the pump, some fumes escape, but the pressure is gone. Petrol isn't flammable in its liquid form, so you can't ignite the hotter pressurised petrol inside the pump, you can only ignite the vapours which escape. Mobile phones don't produce anything approaching enough heat to ignite petrol and they're electronic, not electric. Electronics don't spark.
Why wait? There's no risk whatsoever. None.

It's the same as some people thought that microwaves were really dangerous when they first became big and that putting something metal in them would cause them to explode. Nonsense. It's the word "radiation" that has people imagining Hiroshima and completely overreacting.

Oh holy mother of god! I think we need to rewrite the laws of physics my man because if what you have just written is true it bears no resemblence to how things work in reality. Petrol is not flammable in liquid form??? Electronics dont spark??? You can only ignite the vapours that escape??? I dare you to throw a match or cigarette at the fuel coming out of the pump next time you get petrol and come back on here with the results :rolleyes:

Of all the people who posted on here DEl2005 is the only one who is right in this case. There is a potential in minute circumstances that a mobile phone could cause the fuel to ignite.

homah_7ft

MYOB wrote: »

I've been stared at with the utter evil eyes by the person behind the counter in Esso in Laghey for making a phone call, particularly as I was pacing around the forecourt trying to make the 1-bar Meteor reception fall over so I could roam on to Vodafone...

I don't think you should walk about while refueling.

EDIT: Sorry just realised you weren't refueling.

L1011

homah_7ft wrote: »

I don't think you should walk about while refueling.

EDIT: Sorry just realised you weren't refueling.

The hoses aren't that long!

I'd refuelled and paid and was taking a scenic route back to the car. As its a massive petrol station, at 11pm, I doubt he was staring at me for taking up one of the ~12 pumps as the rest were empty...

wil

right this thread is starting to get a little bit silly so it's time to mention some harsh realities:rolleyes:
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2007/08/nokia_battery.html
So basically, if you happen to be recharging your defective Nokia in the car I would suggest you contact the fire department before filling up.;)

If however you are driving the Caparo T1 you will have caught fire long before getting to the filling station.:(
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/EDITORIAL/car_page_content/36853.html

If you attempt to bring a Dell laptop on a plane you should do some time in Guantanamo Bay:D
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/08/laptop_batteries.html

artanevilla

I always leave the phone in the car, more than likely still will, despite reading all this.

DJ_Spider

Alun wrote: »

Well, if that's the case they should ban cars from garage forecourts then as well. Plenty of potential spark causing stuff in an average car as well. Not to mention nylon underwear

Found the best bit from the Brainiac mobile phone vs petrol experiment!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnl4bK_veg0

So all those scousers who fancy a weekend in Dub better leave the shellsuits at home!

DJ Spider

cyrusdvirus

The arrogance dislpayed by certain people on this thread is breathtaking. The very same people would be up in arms about someone behaving in as ingnorant a manner on the roads, with the same shoddy disregard for the laws and rules that are there for peoples safety.

never turn off my phone on an airplane... always forget? The poster who asked were you deaf or forgetful forgot the most salient point. You are just pure ignorant. Look at me, I'm a rebel, a rule breaker, too cool for your school.

So what if it's been proven that it doesn't really put the plane or the 100 odd other people on board at risk, there's a reason for that rule to be there and whatever it is, be it that the switching gear on the ground was getting confused, be it that there is some tiny infintessimal risk to the aircraft and it's systems, you are showing a disregard for the laws and rules. And I for one would have no problem about reporting you to cabin crew.
You probably display the same characteristics about your driving and wonder why there are such piffly little things as speed limits. Fkn nanny state waffle and all that.

Hagar

Total hypocracy on the part of the petrol stations.
Read this very interesting article.

CarLover

gatecrash wrote: »

The arrogance dislpayed by certain people on this thread is breathtaking. The very same people would be up in arms about someone behaving in as ingnorant a manner on the roads, with the same shoddy disregard for the laws and rules that are there for peoples safety.

never turn off my phone on an airplane... always forget? The poster who asked were you deaf or forgetful forgot the most salient point. You are just pure ignorant. Look at me, I'm a rebel, a rule breaker, too cool for your school.

So what if it's been proven that it doesn't really put the plane or the 100 odd other people on board at risk, there's a reason for that rule to be there and whatever it is, be it that the switching gear on the ground was getting confused, be it that there is some tiny infintessimal risk to the aircraft and it's systems, you are showing a disregard for the laws and rules. And I for one would have no problem about reporting you to cabin crew.
You probably display the same characteristics about your driving and wonder why there are such piffly little things as speed limits. Fkn nanny state waffle and all that.

I have to agree with this. Maybe it is a myth...maybe not. I wasn't aware of it being either...seems silly to flaunt the airline rule though. Even if there's only a minute chance of it being an issue...that's a lot of lives youre putting at risk.
Pure arrogance really...

Zulu

daedalus2097 wrote: »

No, it's basically because there's a rule there which is there for the reason of safety and people flout it the whole time for God know what reason.

People flout jay walking rules - does that bother you so much as well? The rule is pointless. It was put in place because of poor understanding of the subject. It hasn't been reviewed. It's pointless. And the more it's in place, the more people will come to understand this.

Whether or not it is a real risk,

There is no risk.

it's a rule which people don't take seriously.

...and there's good reason for that.

It doesn't affect me personally, but that kind of thing annoys me,

That's a bit silly really, isn't it?

like people sitting in the overtaking lane for no good reason.

nothing like that at all, people sitting in the over taking lane have a direct impact on you and your safetly - people switching on mobile phones don't.

Or maybe it's just I don't have an addictive personality?

well clearly you don't have an addictive personality, but the fact that you'd let something that doesn't affect you bother you so much just because "they are breaking a rule" might say something else of your personality?

seamus

cpoh1 wrote: »

Oh holy mother of god! I think we need to rewrite the laws of physics my man because if what you have just written is true it bears no resemblence to how things work in reality. Petrol is not flammable in liquid form??? Electronics dont spark??? You can only ignite the vapours that escape??? I dare you to throw a match or cigarette at the fuel coming out of the pump next time you get petrol and come back on here with the results :rolleyes:

Petrol vapourises at a very low temperature. Contrary to what Hollywood would have you believe, liquid petrol is not usually flammable. I think it's you who need the physics lesson, my friend. If you pour a big bowl of petrol and throw a match on it, it won't all explode. The top will ignite (where the petrol is vapourising) and it will essentially be flames floating on a bowl of petrol.

The reason it appears that petrol burns in its liquid form is because even at low temperatures, relatively large quantites of its surface will vapourise.

When I talk about electronics, I talk about low-voltage closed circuitry which does not use or rely on eletrically-generated heat. Unlike say a spark plug or a light bulb. Because of their relatively low voltage, electronics are not prone to sparking. For comparision, the voltage of the battery in my mobile right now is 3.6V. In a car's spark plug, in order to mark a spark jump a gap around 1mm or less, it needs to generate anything in the region of 50,000V. There simply is not enough voltage in most consumer electronics to cause sparks.

There is a potential in minute circumstances that a mobile phone could cause the fuel to ignite.

There is more chance of two planes colliding on takeoff and then landing again while fused together. The risk is so slight that it's not even worth thinking about.

NeMiSiS

Lot's of phones have flight mode these days.. My phone has a great camera.. and I like to take pictures of the pretty clouds!

Tom