Who or what is Satan?

Archeron

Something I have never really been clear about. In your own opinion, who, or what is Satan?

Is he an actual singular being who walks the earth with supernatural powers leading us astray and ruling the world of hell, or is he more of an idea of the power of evil personified as a single being to whom we can relate?

Does he even have an image? Is it the red skin, forked tail and hooves we are all familiar with, or is image even an important aspect when considering the role this supposed creature plays in our lives?

Personally as time goes on, I find it harder and harder to believe in a devil as one being that we are taught about through the church, but I do often see the evil in the hearts of men. Is this evil the real Satan which we need worry about, and if so, how does this relate to the Satan as seen by religion?

Of course, we all know the devils greatest trick.....

Run_to_da_hills

Archeron wrote: »

Something I have never really been clear about. In your own opinion, who, or what is Satan?

Is he an actual singular being who walks the earth with supernatural powers leading us astray and ruling the world of hell, or is he more of an idea of the power of evil personified as a single being to whom we can relate?

Does he even have an image? Is it the red skin, forked tail and hooves we are all familiar with, or is image even an important aspect when considering the role this supposed creature plays in our lives?

Personally as time goes on, I find it harder and harder to believe in a devil as one being that we are taught about through the church, but I do often see the evil in the hearts of men. Is this evil the real Satan which we need worry about, and if so, how does this relate to the Satan as seen by religion?

Satan, the Devil is alive and kicking on planet earth, more so than ever because he is having his last fling before the return of Christ who will judge the living and the dead. He is attempting to win as many souls as possible and to bring them all to eternal damnation with him. He is much more subtle than a red guy with hooves and a tail going around with a pitch fork

Satan operates through the entertainment industry, music and movies, advertising, the Government, world powers and religions. His soul purpose is to keep the minds of people away from Christ who is the creator of this universe so that they will die in their sin without the knowledge of God.

Run_to_da_hills

Run_to_da_hills wrote:

Satan operates through the entertainment industry, music and movies, advertising, the Government, world powers and religions.

Do you ever feel that your previous lifestyle, that you now find was a very unhealthy lifestyle, is colouring your views of what you think satan is and does? That because you now find flaws in the things listed above, you think those flaws must be attributed to "satan"?

Splendour

Satan is the 'Prince of this World'. Until Jesus comes back, he has dominion over the earth. In fact, at one point during Jesus lifetime, he made this proposition to Jesus:

Luke 4:

5The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. 6And he said to him, "I will give you all their authority and splendor, for it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. 7So if you worship me, it will all be yours."

Satan (Lucifer) was originally an angel in Heaven who became proud and wanted to be 'godlike'.


Ezekiel 28,13-19
13 You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
ruby, topaz and emerald,
chrysolite, onyx and jasper,
sapphire, turquoise and beryl. [c]
Your settings and mountings [d] were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.

14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.

15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.

16 Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, O guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.

17 Your heart became proud
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
because of your splendor.
So I threw you to the earth;
I made a spectacle of you before kings.

18 By your many sins and dishonest trade
you have desecrated your sanctuaries.
So I made a fire come out from you,
and it consumed you,
and I reduced you to ashes on the ground
in the sight of all who were watching.

19 All the nations who knew you
are appalled at you;
you have come to a horrible end
and will be no more.' "

Scofflaw

Splendour wrote: »

Satan is the 'Prince of this World'. Until Jesus comes back, he has dominion over the earth. In fact, at one point during Jesus lifetime, he made this proposition to Jesus:

Luke 4:

5The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. 6And he said to him, "I will give you all their authority and splendor, for it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. 7So if you worship me, it will all be yours."

Satan (Lucifer) was originally an angel in Heaven who became proud and wanted to be 'godlike'.


Ezekiel 28,13-19
13 You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
ruby, topaz and emerald,
chrysolite, onyx and jasper,
sapphire, turquoise and beryl. [c]
Your settings and mountings [d] were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.

14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.

15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.

16 Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, O guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.

17 Your heart became proud
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
because of your splendor.
So I threw you to the earth;
I made a spectacle of you before kings.

18 By your many sins and dishonest trade
you have desecrated your sanctuaries.
So I made a fire come out from you,
and it consumed you,
and I reduced you to ashes on the ground
in the sight of all who were watching.

19 All the nations who knew you
are appalled at you;
you have come to a horrible end
and will be no more.' "

That sounds rather final to me.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Run_to_da_hills

bluewolf wrote: »

Do you ever feel that your previous lifestyle, that you now find was a very unhealthy lifestyle, is colouring your views of what you think satan is and does? That because you now find flaws in the things listed above, you think those flaws must be attributed to "satan"?

Do you think Music lyrics that premote, hate, suiside, rebellion, and drugs come from God?

Do you think advertisements that premote drink, psychics, horoscopes, "escorting" services, gambling etc are inspired by God?

Do you think the inspiration for movies like "Saw", the "Hostel" and "Harry Potter" come from God?

Do you think Governments that ban Bible reading and common prayre from public schools and later legalise abortion and gay marriage are inspired by God?

Do you think world powers like the Common Market that pay farmers for not growing crops to keep the price artificially high while millions are starving in the world is inspired by God?

Do you think the inspiration a "Christian" religious leader who premotes the idea that the Allah of the Koran and Jehova of the Bible are all of the one, comes from God?.

Absolutly not, Satan has his inspiration in all of the above.

mossieh

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Do you think the inspiration for movies like "Saw", the "Hostel" and "Harry Potter" come from God?



Absolutly not, Satan has his inspiration in all of the above.

Interesting juxtaposition. I'm trying to figure out why you'd have a problem with Harry Potter, is it because Dumbledore is gay?

Surely a satan-inspired story would have evil ultimately triumphing over good, not the other way around?

Zombrex

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Do you think Music lyrics that premote, hate, suiside, rebellion, and drugs come from God?
...
Absolutly not, Satan has his inspiration in all of the above.

So if something doesn't come from God it comes from Satan?

that is a rather dualistic way to look at life. Is it shared by other Christians?

Run_to_da_hills

mossieh wrote: »

Interesting juxtaposition. I'm trying to figure out why you'd have a problem with Harry Potter, is it because Dumbledore is gay?

Surely a satan-inspired story would have evil ultimately triumphing over good, not the other way around?

No one can dispute that J.K Rowling is a gifted and imaginative author. The Harry Potter books are well written, often humorous, and make interesting reading. However, it does seem that are some definite dark and occultic themes that consistently emerge within the books which do give cause for concern, especially when one considers that it is mostly children who are reading these books.

Even the name "Philosopher's Stone" comes from an actual occultic stone. The Dictionary of the Occult explains: "Philosopher's Stone - The name given in Alchemy to a stone, powder or substance that will transmute base metals into gold." (Geddes & Grosset, Dictionary of the Occult, p. 175).

Harry Potter is of the Devil because it is an introduction to the underworld of witchcraft and and any professed Christian should have nothing got to do with it.

Romans 1:28-32 is the clincher for Christians that enjoy the likes of Harry Potter. "Who KNOWING the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, BUT HAVE PLEASURE IN THEM THAT DO THEM."

Zombrex

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Romans 1:28-32 is the clincher for Christians that enjoy the likes of Harry Potter.

Just out of curiosity which of the following practices describes children who read Harry Potter books?

unrighteousness
wickedness
greed
evil
full of envy
murder
strife
deceit
malice
gossips,
slanderers,
haters of God,
insolent,
arrogant,
boastful,
inventors of evil,
disobedient to parents,
without understanding,
untrustworthy,
unloving,
unmerciful

Nerin

all i can do is laugh when people use harry potter of all things as an example of evil.
its a childrens book.
:rolleyes:

purple'n'gold

Archeron wrote: »

Something I have never really been clear about. In your own opinion, who, or what is Satan?

Is he an actual singular being who walks the earth with supernatural powers leading us astray and ruling the world of hell, or is he more of an idea of the power of evil personified as a single being to whom we can relate?

Does he even have an image? Is it the red skin, forked tail and hooves we are all familiar with, or is image even an important aspect when considering the role this supposed creature plays in our lives?

Personally as time goes on, I find it harder and harder to believe in a devil as one being that we are taught about through the church, but I do often see the evil in the hearts of men. Is this evil the real Satan which we need worry about, and if so, how does this relate to the Satan as seen by religion?

Of course, we all know the devils greatest trick.....

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing man that he didn't exist"

Run_to_da_hills

nerin wrote: »

all i can do is laugh when people use harry potter of all things as an example of evil.
its a childrens book.
:rolleyes:

It is wrong for anyone to support Harry Potter's witchcraft. Mrs. Rowling's books are introducing children to the occult, Harry Potter is straight out of hell because it promotes the sin of witchcraft and encourages young people to dabble into such at an early age. The Books were banned recently by a Christian primary school in the UK because they were against Biblical principals. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/693779.stm

The Catholic Church has also spoken out about these books.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/books/devil-in-the-detail-vatican-exorcises-harry-potter/2006/08/31/1156817034534.html

Run_to_da_hills

Run_to_da_hills wrote:

Harry Potter is straight out of hell

No, it's out of a publishing place.
If satan did exist, I imagine it would be laughing at you for getting so worked up over children's books when there's real evil elsewhere in the world.

Nerin

lol

No, it's out of a publishing place.
If satan did exist, I imagine it would be laughing at you for getting so worked up over children's books when there's real evil elsewhere in the world.

im pretty sure rtdh will label me satanic or whatever as i'm a pagan who has indeed practiced "witchcraft".
some of those "evil witches" have been the most level headed people ive met.
as for harry potter,please get something a little less ridiculous to moan about.
harry potter (and i find myself defending books that i really dont like <in a literary sense>) is all about them using their "evil" (lol) powers for good.
oh gosh, if you had have told me i'd be defending childrens books when i had my coffee this morning i would have thought you mad.

"i detest what you write,but would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write."
Voltaire

Run_to_da_hills

bluewolf wrote: »

No, it's out of a publishing place.
If satan did exist, I imagine it would be laughing at you for getting so worked up over children's books when there's real evil elsewhere in the world.

Yes and it can start at an early age.

Nerin

are you trying to suggest that harry potter is turning those kids evil???
its a good thing they aren't reading the bible, thats one violent book!

Zombrex

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Yes and it can start at an early age.

I've yet to meet a child who is a Harry Potter fan who is dumb enough to believe that the magic described in the book is actually real.




... I'm sure there is an insult in there some where

Run_to_da_hills

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Yes and it can start at an early age.

Yes and it doesn't start with harmless children's books like HP.

Simi

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Do you think Music lyrics that premote, hate, suiside, rebellion, and drugs come from God?

Do you think advertisements that premote drink, psychics, horoscopes, "escorting" services, gambling etc are inspired by God?

Do you think the inspiration for movies like "Saw", the "Hostel" and "Harry Potter" come from God?

Do you think Governments that ban Bible reading and common prayre from public schools and later legalise abortion and gay marriage are inspired by God?

Do you think world powers like the Common Market that pay farmers for not growing crops to keep the price artificially high while millions are starving in the world is inspired by God?

Do you think the inspiration a "Christian" religious leader who premotes the idea that the Allah of the Koran and Jehova of the Bible are all of the one, comes from God?.

Absolutly not, Satan has his inspiration in all of the above.

Lol! U remind me of the blind preacher in Little Nicky. Just out of interest would that be a good example of a movie inspired by satan? "We all gonna die!"

Nerin

Originally Posted by Run_to_da_hills
Do you think Music lyrics that premote, hate, suiside, rebellion, and drugs come from God?

Do you think advertisements that premote drink, psychics, horoscopes, "escorting" services, gambling etc are inspired by God?

Do you think the inspiration for movies like "Saw", the "Hostel" and "Harry Potter" come from God?

Do you think Governments that ban Bible reading and common prayre from public schools and later legalise abortion and gay marriage are inspired by God?

Do you think world powers like the Common Market that pay farmers for not growing crops to keep the price artificially high while millions are starving in the world is inspired by God?

Do you think the inspiration a "Christian" religious leader who premotes the idea that the Allah of the Koran and Jehova of the Bible are all of the one, comes from God?.

Absolutly not, Satan has his inspiration in all of the above.

1. music is art,it comes from a gift given to you by god,talent.
2. no, from ideas to make money,damn capitalism.
3. your comparing saw to harry potter,need i say anymore.
4. no,they're doing whats in the interests of society as A WHOLE. they arent going to (well,they shouldnt) force people to go without gay marriage and abortions just because your god doesnt like it. not everyones shares your beliefs, learn to live with it.
5. see number 2
6.maybe, ask him.
7. No he/it hasnt.
maybe you are the anti-christ,trying to trick us off the true path.
sure maybe i am either.
or maybe its j.k rowling and liberal polititcians.

DublinWriter

Archeron wrote: »

Does he even have an image? Is it the red skin, forked tail and hooves we are all familiar with, or is image even an important aspect when considering the role this supposed creature plays in our lives?

The image of Satan being cloven hoofed and with horns comes more from mediaeval mythology and a mish-mash of various folk-lore.

Satan himself appears rarely (about 2/3 times) in the entire bible.

Hivemind187

Satan as he is known today is a composite for the Roman fertility icon "Pan" who was a satyr and the icon "Lucifer" who was the Greek (possibly might be wrong on this) muse of Illumination and thought (two things the Middle ages Christians were not happy with).

The name "satan" is most likely a corruption of the Hebrew Shaitan and literally means "Accuser".

This rubbish about Satan and Lucifer originally being Angels etc is Miltonesque gibberish. It is merely the anthropomorphic personification of the antithesis of what a religion tells you to do, counter point to the god head. In fact, the "devil" was merely one a several hundred demons you can find in the Goetic Keys (along with Beelzebub, Belial, Leviathan, Abbaddon and a number of others).

The "devil" as he is portrayed today is just the current incarnation of dualistic fantasies prevalent throughout the Christian mythos.

PDN

DublinWriter wrote: »

The image of Satan being cloven hoofed and with horns comes more from mediaeval mythology and a mish-mash of various folk-lore.

It's certainly true that the cloven hoofed, pitch fork carrying image is mythological and not biblical, as indeed is the idea of Satan living in hell or reigning there as king.

Satan himself appears rarely (about 2/3 times) in the entire bible.

A quick glance at a concordance will demonstrate that "Satan" is referred to in 34 separate passages of Scripture. He is also referred to as "the devil" in another 23 biblical passages.

mossieh

Hivemind187 wrote: »

The "devil" as he is portrayed today is just the current incarnation of dualistic fantasies prevalent throughout the Christian mythos.

I knew it! That's it, I'm done worshipping satan. When I think of all the sacrificial virgins I've wasted... :mad:

robindch

rtdh wrote:

It is wrong for anyone to support Harry Potter's witchcraft. Mrs. Rowling's books are introducing children to the occult, Harry Potter is straight out of hell because it promotes the sin of witchcraft and encourages young people to dabble into such at an early age.

Most children can see that Harry Potter is a story about a nice guy who doesn't exist. The bible, on the other hand, says that witches are real and should be murdered (see Exodus 22:18).

I know which story I'd prefer my kid to read

BrianCalgary

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Satan as he is known today is a composite for the Roman fertility icon "Pan" who was a satyr and the icon "Lucifer" who was the Greek (possibly might be wrong on this) muse of Illumination and thought (two things the Middle ages Christians were not happy with)..

Pretty bad history here Hivemind. Roman mythology was a derivitaive of Greek mythology and didn't show up until about the first century BC. Satan was talked about prior to 1500 BC (approx time of the writings of Genesis)

Hivemind187 wrote: »

The name "satan" is most likely a corruption of the Hebrew Shaitan and literally means "Accuser". .

That is one of the names of Satan. The accuser.

Hivemind187 wrote: »

This rubbish about Satan and Lucifer originally being Angels etc is Miltonesque gibberish. It is merely the anthropomorphic personification of the antithesis of what a religion tells you to do, counter point to the god head. In fact, the "devil" was merely one a several hundred demons you can find in the Goetic Keys (along with Beelzebub, Belial, Leviathan, Abbaddon and a number of others). .

Read Revelation 12:10-14 which recounts th etale of Satan being tossed from Heaven. Never read Milton, but your putting forth gibberish.

Hivemind187 wrote: »

The "devil" as he is portrayed today is just the current incarnation of dualistic fantasies prevalent throughout the Christian mythos.

The devil as he is portrayed today is how he is portrayed in the Bible. Read the verses that PDN cites that talk about him and then you will learn what he looks like within Christianity.

Dave147

So what, you think when a musician is writing lyrics, satan is there giving him idea's? There is no being or spirit satan, there is just evil.

the locust

and where does evil come from?
It has to have an origin beyond 'mens hearts'

The bible describes Satan as the 'Father of Lies' or the 'Prince' of this world...




Interesting to note - who is satans opposite on the heavenly/good guys side, in ranking authority - so to speak? Jesus/God?

No!

Satan doesn't compare in ranking to Jesus/God. Many people think like that.
Most likely Michael the Archangel is his counterpart, the bible describes Satan as Lucifer who, as pointed out was cast out of heaven.

Satan is a spiritual being so of course we can't see him physically, but we see his effects.

Scofflaw

the locust wrote: »

and where does evil come from?
It has to have an origin beyond 'mens hearts'

Because...?

You know, if you follow that train logically, you wind up with a position where humans have neither good nor evil within them except as God and Satan put it there. Why do humans then get rewarded with Heaven or punished with Hell?

cordially,
Scofflaw

the locust

Follow the train a bit further, i believe we do carry good and evil in us... Aha but are we not a tripart being? I believe the bible teaches so...

1 Your Spirit being the innermost part of you
2 Soul (a buffer zone between the spirit and body) made up of things like, your willpower, emotions, mind (connected to brain) and all the things that make you human
And of course your physical body 3

The hebrew concept is that God breathed his breath/spirit into each person. The Godly Good comes through Gods spirit flowing through your spirit (as they are spirit to spirit they are compatible)

There is a battle for this in the soul area, the battleground between good and evil is in the soul of a person (hence you hear christians speak of winning souls etc...)

I believe heaven is where all people belong and hell is where Satan belongs and like the hollywood bad guy he'll try to take as many people with him as he can.

Zombrex

BrianCalgary wrote: »

Pretty bad history here Hivemind. Roman mythology was a derivitaive of Greek mythology and didn't show up until about the first century BC. Satan was talked about prior to 1500 BC (approx time of the writings of Genesis)

Just to clear up -

Lucifer is the Roman for "light bringer".

In the 5th century this Latin word was picked as a translation of the Greek copy of Isaiah, as the Greek had the word heosphoros, meaning dawn bringer (Venus).

This is turn was a translation of the Hebrew heilel meaning "bright one", which referred to Helel the Babylonian god of the morning star.

Jews do not consider this verse in Isaiah to be referring to Satan (the adversary).

Not sure if Christians do.

This explains it better

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer

the locust

the new testament refers to lucifer as a deciever - mascarading as an 'angel of light'

Zombrex

the locust wrote: »

the new testament refers to lucifer as a deciever - mascarading as an 'angel of light'

Well you probably have to look at the original Greek word used.

TheThing!

The devil is in all of us, thats why we must go to mass to absolve ourselves

biko

Satan is as real as the christian god.
One cannot exist without the existence of the other.

the locust

Yeah sure... its 'aggelon fwtos' or angelos meaning 'angel' and 'fwtos' its where we get words like photo, phosphorous etc and means 'light'

So the translation is - angel of light fairly literally

Zombrex

biko wrote: »

Satan is as real as the christian god.
One cannot exist without the existence of the other.

That doesn't make much sense, since God created Satan in the first place, so obviously he existed before he did that.

Nerin

meh christians when they where out spreading their faith used to show up and tell the natives that their gods and goddesses were either false or demons.

Scofflaw

Wicknight wrote: »

Satan is as real as the christian god.
One cannot exist without the existence of the other.

That doesn't make much sense, since God created Satan in the first place, so obviously he existed before he did that.

Doesn't make sense? It's not even Christianity, but Manichaeism. In fact, many of the posters here have put forward various Dualist heresies, and pretty much every single one of these positions has been declared anathema at some point or another.

cordially,
Scofflaw

DublinWriter

biko wrote: »

Satan is as real as the christian god.
One cannot exist without the existence of the other.

Wasn't 'God' supposed to have been existance before all else?

You cannot believe that if you are a Christian.

Hivemind187

BrianCalgary wrote: »

Pretty bad history here Hivemind. Roman mythology was a derivitaive of Greek mythology and didn't show up until about the first century BC. Satan was talked about prior to 1500 BC (approx time of the writings of Genesis)

That is one of the names of Satan. The accuser.

Read Revelation 12:10-14 which recounts th etale of Satan being tossed from Heaven. Never read Milton, but your putting forth gibberish.

The devil as he is portrayed today is how he is portrayed in the Bible. Read the verses that PDN cites that talk about him and then you will learn what he looks like within Christianity.

Roman Mythology is a deritive yes, as I said, i wasnt 100% on the specifics but I am right in the names and the imagery. As for revelations, when was it written? Isnt it a bit "Do as we say or else"?

And the devil of today bears as much resemblance to his former incarnations as the God of the New testament does to the God of the Old ... i.e. very little other than the name.

Splendour

Scofflaw wrote: »

That sounds rather final to me.

cordially,
Scofflaw

This piece of scripture is both a reflection of Satan's fall from the garden of Eden , and also a prophetic warning to him and to the King of Tyre. This King, though originally given power by God to reign over the city of Tyre, had become proud and turned away from him. As a result, God said 'you shall be no more'.
Some day, Satan shall be no more...

Scofflaw

Splendour wrote: »

This piece of scripture is both a reflection of Satan's fall from the garden of Eden , and also a prophetic warning to him and to the King of Tyre. This King, though originally given power by God to reign over the city of Tyre, had become proud and turned away from him. As a result, God said 'you shall be no more'.
Some day, Satan shall be no more...

" So I made a fire come out from you, (past tense)
and it consumed you, (past tense)
and I reduced you to ashes on the ground (past tense)
in the sight of all who were watching.

19 All the nations who knew you (past tense)
are appalled at you;
you have come to a horrible end (past tense)
and will be no more.' "

Doesn't wash. "Will be no more" there is a statement covering the entire future. "He has come to an end, and will no more be seen" is exactly the same kind of statement, and certainly does not imply some future event, but the predicted future resulting from the stated happening.

Boasting over your defeated enemy is also very common in ancient cultures.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Steve J

Satan is subtle in his actions and very patient. He is very much alive in today's world.

He'll plant a seed or a thought in you, and you can decide whether to act on it or not. It's subtle, and you won't even be aware. He will also use other people to get at you.

His biggest power is confusion. We are very weak and no match for his intellect, and that's why we need God to help us. He wants to convince you that you don't need God - that you are independent and in control of your own desitiny.

If you don't go to mass and practice your faith then your powers to resist are weak, and slowly he'll corrupt you bit by bit, and use you to get at others, without you even knowing he's doing this. You will be sad however as God will not be alive in you, and our hearts long to be in union with God.

He doesn't appear to people because if he did then the sight of him alone would drive that person straight to God with fear.

Saint Faustina of the Divine Mercy, and the children of Fatima who had visions of hell describe it as a place full of souls who did not believe the devil existed.

Hitler, Stalin etc. are extreme examples of what he can do, man is not capable of such evil.......but you don't have to look very far to see him at work in everyday people.... anger, selfishness, jealousy, adultery etc etc.......this is him very much at work.

Scofflaw

Steve J wrote: »

Hitler, Stalin etc. are extreme examples of what he can do, man is not capable of such evil.......

I recommend "Mao: the unknown story" by Jung Chang and Jon Halliday. Mao was a human being, just a very selfish, callous, and manipulative one. Nothing more is required.

cordially,
Scofflaw

PDN

Scofflaw wrote: »

I recommend "Mao: the unknown story" by Jung Chang and Jon Halliday. Mao was a human being, just a very selfish, callous, and manipulative one. Nothing more is required.

Great book. Can't say it changed my opinion on Satan, though.

Nerin

His biggest power is confusion. We are very weak and no match for his intellect, and that's why we need God to help us. He wants to convince you that you don't need God - that you are independent and in control of your own desitiny.

If you don't go to mass and practice your faith then your powers to resist are weak, and slowly he'll corrupt you bit by bit, and use you to get at others, without you even knowing he's doing this. You will be sad however as God will not be alive in you, and our hearts long to be in union with God.

he must have gotten me,i dont go to mass,and i dont believe jesus was the son of a god,although i do agree that the message of love thy neighbour etc is nice,if only people would follow it,i dont follow beliefs in a singular deity,and i certainly dont pay tribute to one who would send me to hell for not doing what he wants.
wow,i must be about to commit genocide,kick puppies and be an all round bad egg. oh..wait... no.

Scofflaw

PDN wrote: »

Great book. Can't say it changed my opinion on Satan, though.

Now, to comment on that I would need to make a presumption as to your opinion on Satan, which I am loath to do!

I suppose if one feels that the office bully is inspired by Satan, then finding that Mao was little more than a very successful office bully is unlikely to change your perspective. I have to say, though, that regarding all human evil as inspired by Satan, and all human good as inspired by God, is quite the silliest position.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Zombrex

Steve J wrote: »

Satan is subtle in his actions and very patient. He is very much alive in today's world.

He'll plant a seed or a thought in you, and you can decide whether to act on it or not. It's subtle, and you won't even be aware. He will also use other people to get at you.

His biggest power is confusion. We are very weak and no match for his intellect, and that's why we need God to help us. He wants to convince you that you don't need God - that you are independent and in control of your own desitiny.

If you don't go to mass and practice your faith then your powers to resist are weak, and slowly he'll corrupt you bit by bit, and use you to get at others, without you even knowing he's doing this. You will be sad however as God will not be alive in you, and our hearts long to be in union with God.

He doesn't appear to people because if he did then the sight of him alone would drive that person straight to God with fear.

Saint Faustina of the Divine Mercy, and the children of Fatima who had visions of hell describe it as a place full of souls who did not believe the devil existed.

Hitler, Stalin etc. are extreme examples of what he can do, man is not capable of such evil.......but you don't have to look very far to see him at work in everyday people.... anger, selfishness, jealousy, adultery etc etc.......this is him very much at work.

Kinda makes you wonder why God created him in the first place ...

gillyfromlyre

bertie ahern