Should I buy this car?

LuckyStar

My mother's friend gets all her cars from the same mechanic and his wife is selling hers. It is a late 97 Fiat Punto SX 60. 84k miles. It is taxed til May and NCT'd til Dec 08, it only had 2 owners before she bought it a few months ago (she is getting a 99 fiesta now instead of it). He has replaced most of the internal parts (I don't know the name of them). The clutch was acting up, it kept staying down but he has fixed it, think he replaced it. The head gasket was acting up and he replaced it. The car is only 1200. He is a nice man, has a good reputation for cars, I would rather buy from him than go to a dealer's. Should I get this car? I am worried cos everyone says Fiats are bad. He says that the new ones break down easily but the old Puntos are fine.

Mr Magnolia

I would not touch it with a barge pole. Seems to expensive anyway.

BeardyGit

Having driven a 60SX for a while, I'd buy it - They're an economical yoke and a nice enough drive - If he includes 3 months bumper to bumper warranty with it. Make sure he writes that on the sales receipt.

That head gasket and clutch are the things I'd have been worried about - probably around the 800 mark to put right. If they've been done already, 1200's not a bad price I guess.

cornbb

Having owned a 96 Punto I would avoid. I replaced so many parts of that car: brake cylinders, suspension bushings, clutch, snapped timing belt, radiator. Its a good thing the head gasket has been replaced as my mechanic showed me the floor of his workshop which was littered with blown gaskets from old Puntos.

Having said that, maybe it was just my bad experience. It was a nice enough drive for a car its age. As Gil_Dub said, the danger areas (head gasket, timing belt) have already been taken care of. Might be worth thinking about if you can get some sort of warranty.

LuckyStar

I don't know much about cars, I would probably only have this one a year or two if i got it. If the head gasket has been replaced how long should it last?

Anan1

Sounds good to me. I'd far sooner drive a Punto than the kind of Japanese sh1theap you'd get for that money.

RobAMerc

Anan1 wrote: »

Sounds good to me. I'd far sooner drive a Punto than the kind of Japanese sh1theap you'd get for that money.

Amen to that.

But €1200 seems expensive tbh - unless the car is a minter
€900 - would be more like it I reckon

You'd get a newer model 00 one for €1800

sparkyjo

well really that is very expensive its is 10 nearly 11 years old i wouldn't go any more than about 800 but just be careful just because he has fixed a couple of main parts doesn't mean something els won't go on it you should have someone with a little more know how have a look at it for you first

Evil_Clown

Anan1 wrote: »

Sounds good to me. I'd far sooner drive a Punto than the kind of Japanese sh1theap you'd get for that money.

I disagree I would rather drive an 89 civic or corolla than drive a 97 fiat punto
And I bet I would go for longer than the punto without breaking down !:D

LuckyStar

It has a CD player. power steering and central locking, looks immaculate. I am just worried cos things have already gone wrong with it, although the parts have been replaced.

RobAMerc

Evil_Clown wrote: »

I disagree I would rather drive an 89 civic or corolla than drive a 97 fiat punto

I would rather get tied to the back of a bus and dragged on my face than drive a Corolla

Evil_Clown wrote: »

And I bet I would go for longer than the punto without breaking down !:D

Standard answer from a Jap crap evangelist.

Mr Magnolia

I also would rather the civic.

I also don't think reliability regarding 'Fiat V's Toyota' should even be entered into. That would be ridiculous.

L1011

Mr Magnolia wrote: »

I also would rather the civic.

I also don't think reliability regarding 'Fiat V's Toyota' should even be entered into. That would be ridiculous.

Only if you place a past timescale, Fiat diesels reliability in the past 2-3 years is rock solid, possibly beyond what Toyota are turning out. Biggest issues the company has at all was head gaskets on FIRE engines and dodgy Punto Mk2 ECUs.

Mr Magnolia

MYOB wrote: »

Only if you place a past timescale

1. I don't agree, sorry.
2. The timescale is a '97 Punto or '87 Civic.

L1011

Mr Magnolia wrote: »

1. I don't agree, sorry.
2. The timescale is a '97 Punto or '87 Civic.

...which is placing a past time scale... :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Mr Magnolia

Exactly. We are speaking in relation to the 2 cars mentioned.

Not Fiat diesels in the last 2/3 years etc.? Am I missing your point?

L1011

Mr Magnolia wrote: »

Exactly. We are speaking in relation to the 2 cars mentioned.

Not Fiat diesels in the last 2/3 years etc.? Am I missing your point?

You said you disagreed with putting a past time scale on it, then went and did so. Read your post again...

Mr Magnolia

Ahhhh, I see.

I disagreed with your point, specifically:

Only if you place a past timescale, Fiat diesels reliability in the past 2-3 years is rock solid, possibly beyond what Toyota are turning out.

colm_mcm

Its simply too much money. the 60SX is taxed as a 1.3 and there are far better options out there.

L1011

Mr Magnolia wrote: »

Ahhhh, I see.

I disagreed with your point, specifically:

More careful phrasing of your response, or ordering the bullets in the order of what you're responding to rather than the complete reverse might have helped.

Mr Magnolia

MYOB wrote: »

More careful phrasing of your response, or ordering the bullets in the order of what you're responding to rather than the complete reverse might have helped.

You discussing the point at hand would also help the topic.

meh


edit/ I've re-read it several times and it all still reads fine to me. I must have the blinkers on.

Evil_Clown

RobAMerc wrote: »

Standard answer from a Jap crap evangelist.

What are you on ?
Are you seriously trying to say that japanese cars are crap and that 'fiat' is the holy grail of the motor industry.
Also I like german cars aswell so I must be a german crap evangelist !!!

Don't generalise people it's not a good habit:mad:

bazz26

Anan1 wrote: »

Sounds good to me. I'd far sooner drive a Punto than the kind of Japanese sh1theap you'd get for that money.

For €1200, I'd agree with you.

OP €1200 is way too much for a 10 year old Punto.

Here are a couple of newer examples for similar money:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=839529
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=843875
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=833959

LuckyStar

I thought €1200 was a good price? I only have about €1500 to spend.

I was also considering a Nissan Micra or a Toyota Starlet, would these be better?

Mr Magnolia

LuckyStar wrote: »

I was also considering a Nissan Micra or a Toyota Starlet, would these be better?

In another league IMO. I would advise you to stay away from Fiat Lucky. You'll pick up a nice wee Corsa for ~€1500 either.

colm_mcm

LuckyStar wrote: »

Nissan Micra or a Toyota Starlet, would these be better?

infinately more reliable and better built. If that's what you're into.

LuckyStar

Corsas are nice looking cars. My mother thinks I would be better off getting the Punto because the man I would be buying it from is a mechanic and bought it for his wife from a dealer's. She reckons I would be better off aswell because the parts under the bonnet are new? Having said that my mother doesn't know a lot about cars.

LuckyStar

What sort of year should I be looking at for a Starlet? Micra? Polo? Corsa?

I need a car ASAP because I have to be up at 6 in the morning to get the train and luas to work, and I don't get home til 7.30, and its killing me. I haven't even got driving lessons yet, I am going to book some for next week.

Mr Magnolia

Whatever year your budget will stretch to really.

LuckyStar

I decided to go ahead with the Punto. I know lots of people hate them but we had the exact same model as this one for 6 years and never had any trouble with it. The parts in it are all new, I won't get that with lots of other cars. Plus we know the guy in question and he gets my mother's best friend all her cars. his daughter has a 97 Punto as well, no trouble with it. I doubt he'd sell me a bad car considering I know him. He's old enough and has been a mechanic for years and years, I would rather buy from him than trek around all the car dealers and listen to some young lad in a suit! If he bought it for his own wife then it must be pretty decent! I'm gonna get the boyfriend to have a look at it maybe tomorrow.

Esel

Good luck and fingers crossed.

colm_mcm

LuckyStar wrote: »

If he bought it for his own wife then it must be pretty decent!

Had you not listed all the items that went wrong on the car in the time he'd owned it that might be more credible.
It's messy buying cars from friends of friends, especially when they tell you to get stuffed if something goes wrong. which it is likely to on a Punto of this age.

By the by, if this guy is in the trade he knows the trade price of such a car is 200-300, I'm guessing he paid buttons for it when he bought it - you're basically financing his wifes new Fiesta.

Esel

colm_mcm wrote: »

Had you not listed all the items that went wrong on the car in the time he'd owned it that might be more credible.
It's messy buying cars from friends of friends, especially when they tell you to get stuffed if something goes wrong. which it is likely to on a Punto of this age.

By the by, if this guy is in the trade he knows the trade price of such a car is 200-300, I'm guessing he paid buttons for it when he bought it - you're basically financing his wifes new Fiesta.

Agree.

It is a standard story when a small-time trader (mechanic, whatever) is selling a car for him to say he bought it for his wife, but she doesn't like the shape/colour/size etc. etc. An excuse really.

unkel

colm_mcm wrote: »

if this guy is in the trade he knows the trade price of such a car is 200-300, I'm guessing he paid buttons for it when he bought it - you're basically financing his wifes new Fiesta.

That's a cynical view of the world, Colm. But you could very well be right

@LuckyStar - best of luck with the car

I would have bought it too for the same reasons you did. Good chance the mechanic with his good reputation will see you right if there's a problem. No car in that budget can be expected to be reliable, be it a Toyota or a FIAT

Evil_Clown wrote: »

I would rather drive an 89 civic or corolla than drive a 97 fiat punt

Drive? The Punto is a far superior drive compared to any same generation Japanese supermini. Let alone those that are twice as old :eek:

colm_mcm

unkel wrote: »

No car in that budget can be expected to be reliable, be it a Toyota or a FIAT

I guaruntee you that a 1996 Starlet that is anything other than reliable is an exception to the rule. If I was paying that sort of money for a car that old, I'd go for something other than the one of the least reliable superminis of that age.

Re:the superior drive, an old shape 8 valve punto is hardly sporty or nice to drive.

LuckyStar

It was his wife's car, she drove my mother's best friend around in it every week.

I mean I'm not going to have it for very long, its just to learn in. A year at most.

eringobragh

colm_mcm wrote: »

I guaruntee you that a 1996 Starlet that is anything other than reliable is an exception to the rule. If I was paying that sort of money for a car that old, I'd go for something other than the one of the least reliable superminis of that age.

Re:the superior drive, an old shape 8 valve punto is hardly sporty or nice to drive.

+1

eringobragh

LuckyStar wrote: »

It was his wife's car, she drove my mother's best friend around in it every week.

I mean I'm not going to have it for very long, its just to learn in. A year at most.

I brought my first car from the 'mechanic' friend of a friend (1995 Corsa). Fuel pump went. Huge job on emissions. You learn as you go.

Just so you know. There's no such thing as a friend in the motor trade.


OT but Personally if i was selling my car in the morning i wouldn't sell it to a friend as if something did go wrong its easier to tell a stranger to f off then a friend. Plenty a friendship has gone sour from a bad car!

But if you feel confident about it go for it, 1200 is way to much even 900/1000 is if you got him down to 900 or so maybe

FIATs are renowned for there poor engineering / failure record.

FIAT - F**ked Italian Automobile Trash
FIAT - Fix it again tomorrow
FIAT - Fix It All The Time
FIAT - Failure In Automotive Technology
FIAT - Fails In Attempted Turns

unkel

colm_mcm wrote: »

I guaruntee you that a 1996 Starlet that is anything other than reliable is an exception to the rule

The cheapest '97 Starlet on carzone with a below 100k mileage has an asking price of €2350. And it's a private sale. Caveat emptor - no come back. The OP is buying a similar age /mileage car from a mechanic he trusts (which might imply some come back) for half the money!

colm_mcm wrote: »

Re:the superior drive, an old shape 8 valve punto is hardly sporty or nice to drive.

I don't disagree with you there. It's a much better drive than same era Japanese superminis though. And remember, a decade ago a Punto SX (leccy windows and the works) sold for £8k on the road, which was a very good deal indeed. It's a pitty that many of the people buying them back then never bothered to service their cars

colm_mcm

a lot of those Puntos were sold on 0% finance deals to people who couldn't give a Punto th e maintanance it needs. If I was looking for a Starlet or any older car I wouldn't be looking in Carzone. Buy and sell is the place to get them.

unkel

colm_mcm wrote: »

a lot of those Puntos were sold on 0% finance deals to people who couldn't give a Punto the maintanance it needs.

Indeed. I highlighted "couldn't". Before the Celtic Tiger those people did not and could not have owned a car. During the start of the Celtic Tiger, they had the opportunity / were required to own a car so en masse they opted for this great deal. I have personally witnessed typical owners scratching for and finding pennies to put some fuel in. They didn't even think about checking the oil or having the car serviced. At the other end of the scales, expensive Japanese cars like Civics and Starlets as bought by teachers and nuns, were serviced at the main dealer religiously

Need I say more?

LuckyStar

We had the exact same model as I am getting, we bought it new in 1995. We chose a Punto because it was cheap, my parents didn't have a lot to spend on a car at the time. However my father would be good about getting a car serviced. We had our Punto for 6 years with no trouble. Before the mechanic bought this car in May it had only 2 owners in 10 years. The last one being a lady driver.

I don't know much about cars but I do know that you see Puntos everywhere you go. Maybe it's just because they're cheap, but surely if they were that bad, they'd have faded into obscuity by now? Also maybe a lot of them aren't in good shape because their low price means they are bought by boy racers?

unkel

LuckyStar wrote: »

We had the exact same model as I am getting, we bought it new in 1995. We chose a Punto because it was cheap, my parents didn't have a lot to spend on a car at the time. However my father would be good about getting a car serviced. We had our Punto for 6 years with no trouble

And now you're sharing that bit of anecdotal evidence with us!

eringobragh

LuckyStar wrote: »

I don't know much about cars but I do know that you see Puntos everywhere you go. Maybe it's just because they're cheap, but surely if they were that bad, they'd have faded into obscuity by now? Also maybe a lot of them aren't in good shape because their low price means they are bought by boy racers?

You get what you pay for.

A Punto is fine for the likes 'Mary Murphy' doing runs to the shops and the hairdressers, they run fine for people who run low mileage. There just a bad car IMO

Look at your one its only 84000 or it thats 8400 miles per year and the amount of stuff thats gone wrong with it. Thats no where near high mileage

oh and forgot to mention i reneted a 07 punto on holidays , it was lovely to drive loaded with features ...but the gauges died on it and wouldn't come back didn't know what speed petrol levels etc for a day or so.

Speed_Mad

I would'nt buy that car in Fiats if the head gassket goes first and is replaced that means the car was'nt looked after properly and with its age only more and more will go wrong. Its cheap to replace things on a Punto but you dont want to break down on a carraige way. The car is old stay well clear, with your money go to a dealer most dealers will give you 3 or 6 months warrenty (depending on age of the car) and you will get a good toyota starlet for that money.

eamon234

LuckyStar wrote: »

Corsas are nice looking cars. My mother thinks I would be better off getting the Punto because the man I would be buying it from is a mechanic and bought it for his wife from a dealer's. She reckons I would be better off aswell because the parts under the bonnet are new? Having said that my mother doesn't know a lot about cars.

Exactly - she doesn't which is why this guy is pushing a Punto on her for stupid money - Not all mechanics agree on what's a good car and just because he's a mechanic doesn't necessarily make him an expert (there are a lot of chancers out there) may just mean that he's worked on a lot of Puntos and can fix it cheaply if it goes wrong in the first few months - I know a lot of mechanics who'll swear by Citroens and Renaults too but I sure as hell wouldn't buy one at least not from that time period anyway.

Also - if you do end up buying it - make sure he has the red master key - if he only has a blue one forget about it - you have to have both otherwise you need to spend serious money if you lose the key later.

LuckyStar

eamon234 wrote: »

Also - if you do end up buying it - make sure he has the red master key - if he only has a blue one forget about it - you have to have both otherwise you need to spend serious money if you lose the key later.

What's the red master key? If it's only needed if I lose mine, I won't, I don't lose stuff often.

I had the car checked by a different mechanic yesterday and he said it was fine.

It is no more expensive than other Puntos

http://www.buyandsell.ie/browse.php?quicksearch=punto&textopt=all&ofr_wan=ofr_wan&priv_trade=priv_trade&area=0&s=12&g=00704&price1=&price2=&daysonline=0&automake=0&automodel=0&caryear1=1980&caryear2=2007&bSearch=Search

pm.

If i got it for free id scrap it, i had 1 a few years back and it broke my heart and my bank account.

L1011

eamon234 wrote: »

Also - if you do end up buying it - make sure he has the red master key - if he only has a blue one forget about it - you have to have both otherwise you need to spend serious money if you lose the key later.

Only a certain year-range of Puntos have the red key, I can't offhand remember what range though. The rest have a code-card instead.

LuckyStar

mine is the 95-99 range as far as i know.

TJJP

You seem to have your mind made up so good luck with it.

Useful review and 'what to watch out for list' available here.

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/index.htm?md=94&

Looking at whats available when you up your budget to 1,500 suggests maybe you should look around a bit more before you finally decide.