Promotion companies and you

Frankiestylee

I'm doing some research on promotion companies, not the likes of MCD, POD etc, but the smaller unofficial ones that deal with unsigned acts etc. The type of promo company that runs gigs on a Monday in Voodoo etc.

So if you could do me a favour and list some that you know of, or if you're involved in one yourself then get in touch. It's nothing sinister, I'm just doing a project for college and need to get a wide spectrum of promo companies rather then relying on the few I know.

Also if you've any good or bad experiences I'd like to know. Feel free to PM me if you want.

DerKaiser

My band Crown of Babel go through Dublin underground quite a lot, they get us lots of dates and are great to deal with

Frankiestylee

That's good to hear, yup, Dub Underground were on my list of people to talk to.

Anybody else?

Thomas from Presence

As a venue manager I have a unique perspective on this. I find that most bands would benefit more financially if they cut out these guys. By and large they are pretty useless with a few honourable exceptions. Some of them are terrible, running gigs and getting all the cash for making a phone call to me and hopping on to myspace for three bands.

Many bands are so lazy now it's unbelieveable. The ones that book their own gigs and manage them well are the ones that don't have to scrounge for recording studios and the like since their gigs pay for these expenses.

That said there are some clever promotional 'companies' though they would do well to start actively developing bands as 'names' and contracting them as booking agents if they're serious.

DerKaiser

Thomas from Presence wrote: »

As a venue manager I have a unique perspective on this. I find that most bands would benefit more financially if they cut out these guys. By and large they are pretty useless with a few honourable exceptions. Some of them are terrible, running gigs and getting all the cash for making a phone call to me and hopping on to myspace for three bands.

Many bands are so lazy now it's unbelieveable. The ones that book their own gigs and manage them well are the ones that don't have to scrounge for recording studios and the like since their gigs pay for these expenses.

That said there are some clever promotional 'companies' though they would do well to start actively developing bands as 'names' and contracting them as booking agents if they're serious.

Hey Thomas,

Very true, but a lot of venues now, with the exception of fibbers in fairness, are out to exploit bands with their rental prices, I've funded my own gigs a lot and found it ok but in the end a loss-making slog, through promo companies we're getting higher profile gigs for nothing, but I do get the feeling the majority of them don't promote these gigs at all and just want to milk each bands crowd,

Frankiestylee

If only more venues were run like Fibbers, the whole scene would be alot healthier I reckon.

So any promo companies to note? Already have a positive for Dublin Underground, and negatives out there? Name and shame.

Thomas from Presence

DerKaiser wrote: »

Hey Thomas,

Very true, but a lot of venues now, with the exception of fibbers in fairness, are out to exploit bands with their rental prices, I've funded my own gigs a lot and found it ok but in the end a loss-making slog, through promo companies we're getting higher profile gigs for nothing, but I do get the feeling the majority of them don't promote these gigs at all and just want to milk each bands crowd,

True about the venues but with regards to promoters none of them have left Fibbers any poorer. I don't call back promoters that don't promote.

Thomas from Presence

Frankiestylee wrote: »

If only more venues were run like Fibbers, the whole scene would be alot healthier I reckon.

And yet you wouldn't believe the snobishness you see from some bands with regards the place. We've the best sound, the best deal and the best crowds of all the usual spots and yet some people would rather pay Voodoo €150 for a Monday night or pay to play a half-empty Dorans cos it's Temple Bar.

For three to five brains working in concert, bands can be quite retarded...!

DerKaiser

I would be the first to promote Fibbers, great venue, great sound guys and a good prof. attitude towards putting a gig on, some of my personal favorite shows have been played at Fibbers, I agree Frankiestylee, if more venues operated like Fibbers the Dublin music scene would be much better

henessjon

qwikie


where is fibbers in dublin street name

googled it and found

DerKaiser

Parnell St., at the north end of O'Connell St turn right, it's on the right hand side of the street about 8 doors up

Frankiestylee

Thomas from Presence wrote: »

And yet you wouldn't believe the snobishness you see from some bands with regards the place. We've the best sound, the best deal and the best crowds of all the usual spots and yet some people would rather pay Voodoo €150 for a Monday night or pay to play a half-empty Dorans cos it's Temple Bar.

For three to five brains working in concert, bands can be quite retarded...!

Agreed. I think the snobbishness around Fibbers stems from the percieved heavy metal crowd.

DerKaiser

Actually no, It's just bands in general, some have the silly opinion that fibbers is beneath them, these massive megastars

Baggio

For me the whole scene seems overun with ego-maniacs!

Fibbers and sir thomas have always treated us well,,our clasic rock act always goes down well there and the french sound guy is veryy unique but i like him,,,he;s veryy "into it" and thats what ya want surely . Like has been said soooo many bands seem to think they are mega stars of some sort...basically it comes down to baad mannered eegits who THINK they can play and some bands who KNOW they can play but are polite and know how to talk to people - ie - attitude!

This is always brought home to me...after any of our gigs fibbers included,,have had lads come to me to say "hey great drumset" etc, im always amazed how intimidated they seeem to be to speak *to a musician!!?* needles to say i cut through all that crap and TALK its not hard to have manners and be nice to folks...who knows maybe that person wants to play drums and just needs to folks *even ol' loudmouth here!* do their stuff and be a bit inspired to want to go full out themselves.

So for me attitude of bands and venue folks make all the difference....promoters?..hmm well only experience i have was to ring and ring and ring! a certain crowd who have a few tribute bands on their books,,,emailed em too..hoping to get on their books as we are always well recieved where we have played..but wanna go more countrywide too....needles to say...never heard anything back from them....again manners? not hard to be good mannered in my opinion......or is that not *rock and roll maaan*?!

anyway my bit over fair play sir thomas and fibbers,,the rest?..hmm well have had good times in radio city and slatterys and hope to do more.

ciao' amigos...Baggio.............

Baggio

sorry guys HAD to re-send that damm first one had no breaks in paragraphs grrrrrrr..so if any mod can delete first one please do!

ciao'...Baggio...

JimiTime

Frankiestylee wrote: »

I'm doing some research on promotion companies, not the likes of MCD, POD etc, but the smaller unofficial ones that deal with unsigned acts etc. The type of promo company that runs gigs on a Monday in Voodoo etc.

So if you could do me a favour and list some that you know of, or if you're involved in one yourself then get in touch. It's nothing sinister, I'm just doing a project for college and need to get a wide spectrum of promo companies rather then relying on the few I know.

Also if you've any good or bad experiences I'd like to know. Feel free to PM me if you want.

Garageland = Been very good for getting me gigs in good venues on good nights. Saturday nights in the Sugar Club and Dorans. Also run a promotion if you get 50 people in at the door you get a recording session in Ashtown studios. Don't get paid apart from that, but in fairness, they are getting you a top night at a good venue. And the free recording time incentive, is great IMO.

Gigsmart = Had one gig booked with these, were terrible. Swore I'd never deal with them again. Probably unfair on my part, as I don't know if it was a one off. The gig was for Fibbers and it was totally disorganised. Stage time given, 9.30, Promoter stayed at home, Engineer didn't show up til after 10, then told me that I wasn't on til after 11. Rang promoter, said, 'sorry I'm studying for exams, theres nothing I can do'. I had a real pop at him in fairness, told him that people like himself, who think they are doing us musos a service, are infact doing us a great disservice. Accused me of being liabalist, got a little nasty. I didn't do the gig, was well p1ssed off and sulked for a while:) Till I found some other promoters that seemed a bit better. If anyone from Gigsmart is reading, I have heard good things since, so I've forgiven you:) The bitterness is finally gone:D

Also, regarding Fibbers, what is the great deal that everyone is raving about? And the line about getting the best crowds, do you actually get a passing trade that come in to watch the bands? Do you actually have a policy whereby you let a band play if they're good, regardless of the amount of 'mates' they can bring?

Baggio

Jimi,

well i outlined my feeling and dealings with fibbers...simply found it good,,,we had both situ's...have brought a crowd and also played to whoever was there...our standard of play is high and we deliver full on ..so perhaps whoever is there spots that and appreciates good performers..wether their with us or just there anyway...but ive been treated well there all the time

..............Baggio.....

DerKaiser

JimiTime wrote: »

Also, regarding Fibbers, what is the great deal that everyone is raving about? And the line about getting the best crowds, do you actually get a passing trade that come in to watch the bands? Do you actually have a policy whereby you let a band play if they're good, regardless of the amount of 'mates' they can bring?

I've found that it does get a crowd on thur fri + sat nights, normally what Thomas does is get you in on a Wed to see if you're any good and if you are he'll throw you a bone in the form of a weekend gig, it's a good system, you don't pay to play, the pints are 3yoyos so that's a good selling point for any followers or mates you have coming, I've had a number of really great shows to packed houses in Fibbers, and Jean Claude the sound guy is really sound, and yes Baggio, very unique!

NeMiSiS

I liked Fibbers played there recently, but not with Thomas.. a guy called Ed did the promotion. Genuinely nice guy.


At the moment we don't really deal with alot of promoters in the city, as we are based a bit further out. We usually get a bunch of bands and throw together a gig ourselves.. or people get in touch and ask us would we like to play for them, if we bring the rig we charge money (most of the time). Any money we make goes straight back into a band account for recording, gear, essentials like strings sticks etc. We were lucky enough this year where we won a fair bit of prize money in various BoB's etc .. but that dries up very fast once you start hitting the studio.

The promoters for those ranged from out-standing to absoloute crap, one in particular had arranged a meeting then never showed.. and then tried to pursue us for money.. for something we in the end didn't even participate in. Others were a shining example of people who wanted to promote local music and bands..putting in huge amounts of work.

As others have mentioned, you would be amazed how little some bands wants to do.. as in their percieved job is "show up at the gig and play". A helping hand and some common sense.. makes things go a lot better.

Next year we are organising a tour so.. we should have far more insite into everything by then.. Have not dealt with MCD directly myself, they do owe us a gig though next year as part of another competition we won.

If you want something done, sometimes it's best to do it yourself.. failing that.. people who have a good professional reputation.

TK

Savman

Christ this has turned into a Fibbers appreciation thread. So its well run, woop de doo.
There's a lot of venues in Ireland with decently managed entertainment programs, not just the dozen halfwits who operate in the capital city putting on crap gigs using naive teenage bands who probably dont deserve any better.

Whatever about Promoters, bloody Musicians are worse.

DerKaiser

Angry response there, I would imagine this thread is relative to people plying their trade in Dublin, if you know of other great venues around the country impart and let us all learn from your wisdom and experience

JimiTime

Savman wrote: »

Christ this has turned into a Fibbers appreciation thread. So its well run, woop de doo.

Tbh, thats a start. I haven't dealt with fibbers, but if its as good as people here are saying, well then yeh, woop de doo. Its a rare enough find.

There's a lot of venues in Ireland with decently managed entertainment programs,

As der Keiser said, can you recommend any?

not just the dozen halfwits who operate in the capital city putting on crap gigs using naive teenage bands who probably dont deserve any better.

'Don't deserve any better'? In fairness, there are alot of sh1t bands out there alright. But 'everyone' deserves better than being treated like sh1t. If a promoter thinks the 'naive teenage band' aren't up to it, then they shouldn't let them play. if they give them the gig, then they should behave appropriately. if the band give attitude, tell them, and if it persists, simply end the relationship with the band. Simple and proffesional.

Whatever about Promoters, bloody Musicians are worse.

Let me take the liberty of editing that:

Whatever about certain promoters, some musicians are worse.

I am happy to have had the privilage of working in London, and compared to here, well lets just say there is no comparrison. There are certainly a hell of alot more 'bands with attitude' there, yet the engineer, promoter etc, seem to remain focussed on their job. Not overtly friendly or anything, just do their job without being d1cks.

DerKaiser

Well said JimiTime, did you get any promoter contacts in London? We're planning to go there, if you could PM me any info I'd greatly appreciate it, whats the name of your band btw?

Frankiestylee

I am focusing mainly on Dublin by the way, it's where the college and hence college newspaper are based.

Hopefully the musicians will comment on their experience with promoters and vice versa. I've already got some good insights from a promoter or two.

Garageland ... is that Paddy Fogarty's yoke?

JimiTime

Frankiestylee wrote: »

I am focusing mainly on Dublin by the way, it's where the college and hence college newspaper are based.

Hopefully the musicians will comment on their experience with promoters and vice versa. I've already got some good insights from a promoter or two.

Garageland ... is that Paddy Fogarty's yoke?

FYI:
www.garageland.biz.

miju

Baggio wrote: »

so if any mod can delete first one please do!

done

Savman wrote: »

There's a lot of venues in Ireland with decently managed entertainment programs, not just the dozen halfwits who operate in the capital city putting on crap gigs using naive teenage bands who probably dont deserve any better.

Whatever about Promoters, bloody Musicians are worse.

Have to agree with you there man. What personally annoys me is the view some bands have that promoters shouldn't be allowed to make money from gigs / their band. Yes theres **** promoters and some great ones but in order to sort the wheat from the chaff you just gotta get out there. If you deal with a dodgy promoter learn from it and move on

JimiTime

miju wrote: »

Have to agree with you there man. What personally annoys me is the view some bands have that promoters shouldn't be allowed to make money from gigs / their band.

Is there really bands out there that actually feel that way? Be it justified or not, i find most don't care that the promoters makin' some money, its that they feel that they are getting nothing.

Yes theres **** promoters and some great ones but in order to sort the wheat from the chaff you just gotta get out there. If you deal with a dodgy promoter learn from it and move on

'Or', musicians could all get together and unite in Union, and put a value on themselves, and everyone would refuse to 'pay to play'. Then maybe venues would audition bands, meaning all musicians would get paid, you could be semi guranteed to see a good band in venues, and the ****e bands would be no more. thats my 'Final Solution':D Or what you said:D

miju

Definitely are bands out there with a (very unwarraented) diva attitude like that (some of which are still knocking around). I have dealt with a few bands like that in the past and when I was a more active promoter I avoided these types after running into them once regardless if the night was a real success or bombed.

Also, by "pay an play" I presume you mean the "here's 50 tickets go and sell them and give me x amount" type. even well established bands "pay to play" venues aren't a charity and have overheads too which is why they charge a hire fee.

venues in general are not there to provide some kind of filter (though they should to an extent) it's natural selection IMO and the public will decide what they do and do not want to see by attending gigs. If a band is **** the band will quickly lose money on gigs and cease to exist eventually.

Frankiestylee

Ah cool, garageland was something more interesting then I thought.

Since this isn't a newspaper etc and I'm free to give my opinion...

Nothing annoys me more then a "promoter" who fails to promote on the most basic level. Organising a gig is easy. It's very easy. I've seen people mess up the basic gig bit and I have no time for them. Promotion is the hard part and as a musician nothing irritates me more then to be playing a gig in a week or so and seeing no promotion anywhere. Some promoters don't even stick gigs up on web forums or on the phantom playlist, and that irritates me because it's so easy to do.
As an occasional promoter it irritates me when bands don't tell anyone, literally not a soul, and sometimes they don't even stick around to watch the other bands play.

Savman

Frankiestylee wrote: »

Ah cool, garageland was something more interesting then I thought.

Since this isn't a newspaper etc and I'm free to give my opinion...

Nothing annoys me more then a "promoter" who fails to promote on the most basic level. Organising a gig is easy. It's very easy. I've seen people mess up the basic gig bit and I have no time for them. Promotion is the hard part and as a musician nothing irritates me more then to be playing a gig in a week or so and seeing no promotion anywhere. Some promoters don't even stick gigs up on web forums or on the phantom playlist, and that irritates me because it's so easy to do.
As an occasional promoter it irritates me when bands don't tell anyone, literally not a soul, and sometimes they don't even stick around to watch the other bands play.

Some bands aren't worth promoting, that's the cold hard truth. Bands have the choice not to work with a particular Promoter if they don't like the way he/she operates. Nobody's forcing anybody to do anything here so forgive me if I don't shed a tear for these poor mistreated bands.
If they want to sell 50 tickets just to play 30mins in Dorans, good luck to 'em. A fool and his money are easily parted.
I don't fall on the Promoter side, but I don't fall on the Muso side either. At the end of the day the venue is only interested in who pulls a crowd, so we can debate Promoters ethics all day long it won't change anything. If your band is good and people want to hear/see you, you'll get the gig.

Frankiestylee

Some bands aren't worth promoting...it's true, but promoters shouldn't give them gigs if they're not going to come through on their end of the deal.

There are a lot of unexperienced bands out there that are clueless and are just fodder for people who know how to manipulate them. Sometimes they don't know that there isn't such a thing as the wallet inspector.

Whether it's right or wrong, there are still bands getting exploited by promoters and bands acting like dicks to promoters. The latter is easy to deal with, the promoter just doesn't give the band another gig, but once some bands get into a loop with a dodgey promoter they just keep going around and around in a ****ty circle of selling tickets and playing to their mates without reward.

JimiTime

Savman wrote: »

Some bands aren't worth promoting, that's the cold hard truth.

And personally, i don't think they should get he gig then. i remember i was a regular atendee of random gigs on various nights a few years ago. The amount of absolute rubish I seen just turned me right off supporting my fellow original musicians. I'd say of about 30 gigs I went to, I seen 2 bands that I'd see again. So giving gigs to sh1te bands actually sets the scene back. I think if music is ones passion, be it as a promoter/ents officer or whatever, you should have a bit of responsability to add something to it. Athough it is business, it would be great if these folk would find a happy medium between profits and responsability IMO.

Bands have the choice not to work with a particular Promoter if they don't like the way he/she operates. Nobody's forcing anybody to do anything here so forgive me if I don't shed a tear for these poor mistreated bands.

In fairness, your point is ligit. However, that doesn't mean that things couldn't be greatly improved, from every angle. Prima Donna muso's are out there, along with cr@p engineers, awfully run venues, and exploititive 'promoters'. Yes, you can just avoid them, but it doesn't mean you can't think, 'if only things were better'. There are some venues with great potential, that are wasted because or bad management IMO.

If they want to sell 50 tickets just to play 30mins in Dorans, good luck to 'em. A fool and his money are easily parted.

I don't know if you forget what it was being young and doing original songs. Its not easy. Calling them fools i think is very unfair. But each to their own i suppose.

I don't fall on the Promoter side, but I don't fall on the Muso side either. At the end of the day the venue is only interested in who pulls a crowd, so we can debate Promoters ethics all day long it won't change anything. If your band is good and people want to hear/see you, you'll get the gig.

I get what you're saying. I suppose the dreamer in me would like to enact a change though. i wouldn't just give up and say, 'thats just the way it is'. Nothing is going to change with that mentality. I do agree though, that promoters etc are not going to do it, musicians need to cop on and take responsability for themselves.

Royale with Cheese

Played a couple of gigs with garageland recently. Been €10 in everytime.

1st gig in Dorans we brought around 35-38 people with us and got back under €60. Considering the door takings for the people who'd come to see us were €350 or over I thought that was fairly rubbish.

2nd gig in Dorans we didn't bring many people with us and I don't remember getting much back, could be wrong about that though.

3rd gig in the Sugar Club we brought over 50 people so he's giving us a free 10 hour session in his studio. Usually costs €350 so I can't complain really.

The first 2 gigs were on Sunday nights. Dorans on a Sunday night ain't exactly the busiest place in the city. Probably wouldn't take another gig there on a Sunday, not cos I have an attitude and think I'm a rockstar, just cos there's no point playing to a ghost town.

miju

JimiTime wrote: »

I don't know if you forget what it was being young and doing original songs. Its not easy. Calling them fools i think is very unfair. But each to their own i suppose.

if i'm not mistaken I think shaney was talking more about the fools using the "pay to play" setups rather than bands taking the initiative and going out and doing it themselves.

JimiTime

miju wrote: »

if i'm not mistaken I think shaney was talking more about the fools using the "pay to play" setups rather than bands taking the initiative and going out and doing it themselves.

Whats doing it yourself? I'm not being smart. Do you mean finding out the name of the booking agent for venues and sending them demo's, asking for support slots etc?

TBH, I understand the point, but i'd say 'Naive' rather than 'fools'. I suppose, my point is that while for many its about money, playing 'original' music is an artform and as such should be more than just money orientated. If someone has a venue for original bands, then i would expect that that person has some kind of passion for it or he'd stick with DJ's or cover bands and the like, as I'm sure thats cheaper, less hassle and probably bring more passing trade. Here is my idea for the perfect original band venue.
1. The owner/manager has a passion for this form of expression.
2. Seperate the nights such as; Thursday=Funk/Blues. Friday=Rock. Saturday=Indie etc.
3. Seek Demo's and actually have the bands come in to audition. Filter out the cr@p and keep the good bands.

Build from there. The venue should boast having good bands for each genre based night, thus building a reputation that if you want to support the local music scene, this is the place to go without having to endure the rest of the sh1te. I would be hoping that the reputation would bring in the passing trade. Really the key, is getting it so a band gets to play to a foreign audience, i.e. Not just mates.

Thats my 2 cent anyway:)

libriumbum

nearly all of the promoters out there these days are looking out for themselves by ripping off young bands who dont know what they ae doing.
Getting 50 people into a venue at 10euro a head so you can get free time in a studio is bull****, Studio time is great but will never pay rent....ever!

Its not only no payment that is the bad thing with these guys.
If I could rely on a guy to get me a gig with simiar bands and play to a crowd thats into my music I wil gladly do a free gig, however, Ive played gigs these guys have organised and the 1st band is a singer songwriter, the 2nd is metal and the 3rd is R&B.....this makes no sense as the crowd are chilled out after the 1st, pissed off after 2nd and just confused by the time the 3rd act comes along.

This city needs guys who care about music and know what they are doing so the music scene can thrive again.
Bands need to start meeting up and organising there own gigs together and splitting any profits.

Royale with Cheese

Uh I have a job to pay the rent with. If I wanted to make money out of being in a band I'd play covers and do private functions like weddings etc.

I'd be far more concerned about playing decent venues on decent nights to decent crowds rather than what cut of the door takings I'm getting. You're right about the similar bands thing. We play rock music and get thrown on with all sorts of bands, some of them absolutely woeful. If there were to be 4 decent rock bands on in one night then random people would actually come rather than just friends of the bands.

Savman

JimiTime wrote: »

I don't know if you forget what it was being young and doing original songs. Its not easy. Calling them fools i think is very unfair. But each to their own i suppose.

I didn't directly call them all fools but did suggest they were for handing over money to some random promoter. Like in any walk of life, there are people out there that will take advantage of the dumb and there has to be some responsibility on the bands here who just go along with it. Those that work to do better, can.

I get what you're saying. I suppose the dreamer in me would like to enact a change though. i wouldn't just give up and say, 'thats just the way it is'. Nothing is going to change with that mentality.

It'll never change as long as there's crap promoters and crap bands. If you ask me, it's a self sustaining music scene of its own. All I'm saying is why should we bother worrying about the state of things when quite clearly those involved couldn't give a toss. Some bands wise up and move on, some don't, it's just law of averages. Remember most bands dont last together very long so the same dodgy Promoter can hang around leeching of whatever new victims come his way, and there's new bands forming every day of the week so the circle of shit continues.

1. The owner/manager has a passion for this form of expression.
2. Seperate the nights such as; Thursday=Funk/Blues. Friday=Rock. Saturday=Indie etc.
3. Seek Demo's and actually have the bands come in to audition. Filter out the cr@p and keep the good bands.

Although it is that simple, getting some variation in the genres would prove impossible as most bands play Rock music in some form. To the average punter, Indie is Rock, at least in public perception anyway. The only system that works is to just book good bands and get the venue a name and leave the crap bands to fight over 20min slots in Voodoo on Tuesday nights. This system is actually currently already in place and I'm sure if there was a better option a bar manager or decent agent/promoter would have already thought of it.

It might make for good debate, but very little else IMHO.

DSB

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

1st gig in Dorans we brought around 35-38 people with us and got back under €60. Considering the door takings for the people who'd come to see us were €350 or over I thought that was fairly rubbish.

Haha jesus. If you're only the sort of band who can bring 35-38 people to see you, you should be chuffed with that amount of money. Seriously, the amount of people in this city who are rockstars in their own mind is ridiculous. I'm in a band that not meaning to toot our own horn(just saying for the point of comparison), bring a good bit more than that to our gigs. If we get 60 euro for playing we're chuffed at the promoter for the opportunity. Normally they'll have 4 more acts to pay that amount of money to. Aswell as venue hire which could range from 150-300. Generally we won't play for promoters who charge 10 euro in for local bands though so I think thats a fair enough deal. If you've no problem letting promoters rip off the people who come to see you play, then its a bit rich to say that only getting 60 euro isn't enough. If you really want money, or a really successful gig, both seem to be your desire so it wouldn't be fair to brand you as just in it for the money, then why not go put your own gigs on?

Denalihighway

hello
i read a good few posts and then got a bit bored to be honest cuz it descended inevitably into a lot of mudslinging - but a lot of very good points too from musician and promoter perspectives.

As an unsigned band member hoping to make a splash and someone who has used them all the time I would strongly recommend Garageland. By and large its run very well, the main man is fair (its all you can ask for) and personally I get on great with him. IAnd so you know, I'm NOT related or involved with Garageland at all...I just like to give credit where its due.

If you are an unsigned band looking for good gigs on good nights in good venues then take the gigs, play well and be thankfull for the experience and exposure and the fact that you havent lost yer trousers by booking the venue by yourself (unless you've a serious following). Dont be bitching that you dont make money, at this stage it shouldnt be about money unless yer really making waves. They've also joined up with 'Live In Your Living Room' which you'll also have a chance if yer good enough

i've heard bad things about a few chancers around town so be careful, Garageland is the only promoter we use and they've been great.

oh btw...Garageland allow you to give concessions so no band has to charge their people 10 euros - some people dont know this - especially the fans!

Frankiestylee

Denalihighway wrote: »

hello
i read a good few posts and then got a bit bored to be honest cuz it descended inevitably into a lot of mudslinging - but a lot of very good points too from musician and promoter perspectives.

As an unsigned band member hoping to make a splash and someone who has used them all the time I would strongly recommend Garageland. By and large its run very well, the main man is fair (its all you can ask for) and personally I get on great with him. IAnd so you know, I'm related or involved with Garageland at all...I just like to give credit where its due.

If you are an unsigned band looking for good gigs on good nights in good venues then take the gigs, play well and be thankfull for the experience and exposure and the fact that you havent lost yer trousers by booking the venue by yourself (unless you've a serious following). Dont be bitching that you dont make money, at this stage it shouldnt be about money unless yer really making waves. They've also joined up with 'Live In Your Living Room' which you'll also have a chance if yer good enough

i've heard bad things about a few chancers around town so be careful, Garageland is the only promoter we use and they've been great.

oh btw...Garageland allow you to give concessions so no band has to charge their people 10 euros - some people dont know this - especially the fans!

Hah.. um... I've never read a more biased post tbh.

DSB

Denalihighway wrote: »

If you are an unsigned band looking for good gigs on good nights in good venues then take the gigs, play well and be thankfull for the experience and exposure and the fact that you havent lost yer trousers by booking the venue by yourself (unless you've a serious following). Dont be bitching that you dont make money, at this stage it shouldnt be about money unless yer really making waves. They've also joined up with 'Live In Your Living Room' which you'll also have a chance if yer good enough

I actually agree with this. But I think you're slightly hypocritical in saying it while promoting Garageland as something good at the same time. Why should a band have to pay to play a gig? Pay-to-play is absolutely ridiculous. I've never gotten myself involved in it and never will.

Royale with Cheese

DSB wrote: »

If you really want money, or a really successful gig, both seem to be your desire so it wouldn't be fair to brand you as just in it for the money, then why not go put your own gigs on?

Royale with Cheese wrote: »

Uh I have a job to pay the rent with. If I wanted to make money out of being in a band I'd play covers and do private functions like weddings etc.

I'd be far more concerned about playing decent venues on decent nights to decent crowds rather than what cut of the door takings I'm getting.

Can you read? Obviously not. I couldn't give a toss about making money. I was just reporting back to the op what we got. I've played with other promoters and made more money bringing less people with a smaller door charge, which is why I thought €60 was rubbish, it was €56 actually.

I didn't know garageland had a concession. Would definitely be using that. €10 in is far too much to see a bunch of unsigned bands, especially when you consider some of the acts are dreadful.

Denalihighway

Frankiestyle - I disagree with the 'biased' comment - surely if I'm asked what promoters are worth their salt I should be allowed give my opinion? I'm not sure why that would bother anyone. As I said I havent had experiences with other promoters but I have heard bad stories and all my experiences (bar one or two small complications which is inevitable in this biz) with Garageland have been good. Simple as that.

And DSB...again, I dont understand how I'm being accused of being hypocritical. I never mentioned 'paying for playing'?? I've never paid to play with Garageland. In fact I could have made a couple of quid every so often if we charged at the door what other bands do with Garageland. I've booked venues and paid for them myself a few times, couple o times made some dough, once or twice lost some. More stress more hassle even if you do make some money for a couple o pints. For now while we're pretty much unknown apart from our own people, it makes no sense to promote our own gigs. Apart from our xmas extravanganza of course!

DSB

Well unless things have changed, from what I remember about Garageland when we were offered a gig with them, you had to buy the tickets and sell them to our friends. Thats paying to play.

Denalihighway

- no not anymore. I do remember when that was the case and it was just around the time we first got involved - it was very awkward, trying to arrange to get tickets etc, rediculous really. It changed soon after. All I ever do is let them look after the door. There's obviously a minimum base price that you are allowed to charge and anything over that is your cut after a certain number of people come through the door (I genuinely cant remember how many but I know of the 50 rule with the free days recording at Ashdown etc). I text concessions to our people that they show on arrival and it works like a dream. It does mean we forego our cut (occasionally we've made a few bob but not much given the concessions etc) but at this stage in our existence we dont mind. Maybe someday it'll come back around for us (in our dreams!) but if it doesnt so be it, bums on seats and a good atmosphere and occasion is the most important thing.

DSB

So in reality, its not a concession at all. You're paying some of the money for people coming to see you from the money you've been paid.

Frankiestylee

So by using the concession you forgo any chance of getting money?

If you have to bring in 50 people to get the recording session, that's going to be around €500. I don't know the studio in question but I'd take an educated guess and say it wouldn't cost that much, plus some studios are as desperate for bands to record in them as bands are to record. I'm not saying that's the case here, but some objectivity is always nice.

If you can bring 50 people to a gig with other bands that may or may not be ****, why can't you organise your own gigs, get together with some like minded bands and cut out the middle man.

Since you're so amazingly happy with garageland and how they promote your gigs... how do they actually promote the gigs? I'm in town every day and I can't remember seeing any posters. I frequent a fair few music web forums regularly and I can't remember seeing any gig posts. So how do they promote your band better then you could?

Really what I'm getting at here is... if you have a problem with me saying your post sounded a bit overly biased then I'm assuming everything actually is rosey in the garden of garageland rather then you just saying it is.

Denalihighway

ok...

first of all, no doubt I'm wrong but Frankiestylee yer sounding more and more like someone who may be in competition with or be friends or aligned with someone who is in competition with Garageland rather than the person who started this thread and asked innocently for opinions on promoters...which I gave. I hope this isnt the case.

to answer other questions.

i never said I have 50 of my own people coming to those gigs. Sometimes yes but most of the time I'd say around 40. We have an occasional headline show and yes we get more than 50.

- about my experience with garageland…well they only start paying per head after a certain amount has come in (honestly cant remember how many this is) so you get a couple o quid per head depending on how many came to see you and how much of a concession you gave – for us its always cheap, again, bum on seats over money any day o the week so there’s never much to talk about. But not everyone has to do this so make sure you understand that THERE IS money to be made if u bring lots of people and depending on yer door price. I’ll also say I guess I’m lucky I can be flippant about it cuz I’ve got a decent full time job and can afford to be. Don’t forget the promoter has to cover their ass too – I’ve played nights when we might have brought about 30 people and the other bands 10 between them, I guess then you have to know how much they’re paying to rent the venue – its likely to be less than what you’d pay ordinarlity since it’s a regular thing but still, they’ve gotta look after themselves.

you're also talking like people who havent much experience in trying to book their own gigs which is fair enough.

- to get a good night in one of these venues is becoming increasingly expensive and increasingly difficult. For example I think we booked Radio City a while back and it cost about 450 (i'm open to correction) maybe more...

Now I do not want to charge my people more than 8 euro to one of our gigs, moreover I want to give concessions (fiver say..) to students and have a guest list. So if you take the average price of 6.50, that means you need about 70 just to break even. That does not include paying someone a few quid to do the door and for any support we've ever had, we've always thrown them a slab of beer (skys' the limit depending on your taste!) cuz thats how nice we are. Other venues are more expensive. Now you see how things are stacking up.

Factor in the fact that it may be a week night because you don’t have the clout or demand to get a weekend night and unless you have good numbers coming you will end up out of pocket. Simple as that. All this is from experience so I don’t know why you guys are trying to hunt out some kind of hidden agenda which is what it sounds like.

god i'm boring myself now! hoep this isnt too long-winded. To sum up. I'd take earning €30 for a few pints after a Garageland gig in a good venue on a Sat night over losing the arse of me trousers playing mid-week at a nice venue.

Savman

Denalihighway wrote: »

ok...

first of all, no doubt I'm wrong but Frankiestylee yer sounding more and more like someone who may be in competition with or be friends or aligned with someone who is in competition with Garageland rather than the person who started this thread and asked innocently for opinions on promoters...which I gave. I hope this isnt the case.

You could have a point here. You can't have a balanced discussion with vested interests or an ulterior motive. There's been some decent points made so far, but a fair bit of brown nosing too.
I've never dealt with Fibbers personally, but one band I know emailed them a few times about gigs and weren't digified with a response.
I dealt with Garageland a few years ago and I would have difficulty saying a bad word about them tbh. I believe they've since forged some links with Hot Press, IMRO and a few other notable industry organisations so they're well connected. You don't get anywhere being shady and IIRC Garageland is still run by Dermot Lambert who, in my personal experience, is quite a sound guy.

Whatever takes your fancy really.

Frankiestylee

Denalihighway wrote: »

ok...

first of all, no doubt I'm wrong but Frankiestylee yer sounding more and more like someone who may be in competition with or be friends or aligned with someone who is in competition with Garageland rather than the person who started this thread and asked innocently for opinions on promoters...which I gave. I hope this isnt the case.


you're also talking like people who havent much experience in trying to book their own gigs which is fair enough.

Sorry, don't know how to seperate the qoutes.

First off, I'm a journalism student in DIT... you can check the DIT boards if you want and see more then enough posts to make this either genuine or the most genius and well planned ruse to bad mouth Garageland ... if, instead of skipping over some of the threads as you said, you actually read them, you'd see I thought Garageland was run by Paddy Fogarty.
The reason for starting this thread was geniune, I am infact doing a project and article on this topic. Dealing with the topic as a journalist you have to stay objective, but talking about it on boards you're allowed to express an opinion, especially to balance the views of someone like denalihighway.

Fibbers is a good venue, a venue I'd completely forgotten about til Thomas came along.

As for no experience of running gigs, I've plenty of experience and that's why I don't believe in using these promoters, there's no need... they don't do anything that you can't, infact some of them aren't bothered.