Wood Pellets

Builderwoman!

Hi

Just wondering where are you all ordering your pellets from now and at what price per tonne?

Please post so we can compare and see what quality and price is like now that we're into the weather for increase pellet usage. Thanks

ircoha

I dont know whether we can deal with quality issues by supplier here without running the risk of another MCD case.

There are substantial issues with quality, some due to organised crime using silica and and glue with sawdust as part of the production process.

The silica causes clinker....

As far as I know, we dont have a standard as yet so we will probably have to wait for a scandal like the freezing heating oil before our overpaid politicians will get interested in this very important issue.

Coal oil gas are all regulated as per standards, so why not WP

As the sun and wind and tide are free.....

Hoagy

ircoha wrote: »

There are substantial issues with quality, some due to organised crime using silica and and glue with sawdust as part of the production process.

I'm fascinated. Any details on this?

Biglad

Builderwoman! wrote: »

Hi

Just wondering where are you all ordering your pellets from now and at what price per tonne?

Please post so we can compare and see what quality and price is like now that we're into the weather for increase pellet usage. Thanks

Just got my 3rd delivery from BALCAS at 195.00/Ton. I called another guy down the country but he quoted 220.00 and I had to find some more "takers" as he would not come to Donegal for just one load.
I wasn't stuck for pellets but I made some adjustments to the storage and I wanted to beat a possible winter rush.
The delivery was smooth and there was just some dust and fines, nothing shocking. I must say that our Mescoli burner would possibly burn dust only as it hasn't missed a beat since it was fired up. It's performing really well and we are happy that we decided to spend that litle extra at the time.
The brother in law is still fighting with his Woodpecker set up. I think at this stage we can clearly say that it's the hopper/auger combo that's causing all the problems. The slightest amount of dust will clog it. On average he has to clean his auger out every 12 hours!! He has drilled additional holes in the bottom of the hopper etc. to get the dust out but of very little avail.
Even when he cleanes the pellets it will only run for a maximum of 24 hours or so.
Dont get me wrong, the Woodpecker boiler is fine when it gets the pellets. I have my own theory why he is getting all these blockages.
Gerkros should thank this guy on their knees because he must have sold more then a dozen Boilers for them as dozens of people came to look at his setup. They did give him one of these digital panels recently but all this does is tell him why the boiler stopped again, and it's always the same message...
Again this is my personal opinion after watching him struggle with this problem since christmas last year.
The auger pipe is to long and narrow. This design will clog much easier than my Mescoli auger which is at least a foot shorter and half an inch wider. The worm-wheel isn't ideally shaped either.
The open top hopper is something i dont like either. These hoppers are nearly always situated in a garage and garages are always slightly damp, at least the air in them is. I think the combination of all the above causes the auger to clog and finally stop producing pellets or not enough pellets to keep the boiler going.
I've made up with Balcas and they have handled my initial complaint in a professional matter. The last 2 deliveries were very smooth and like I already said there was some dust but nothing to shocking.

tinofapples

We haven't got around to building a bulk storage area just yet so i took delivery of my second tonne of bagged pellets about a month ago now. They were €233 for the tonne from Kedco (I think this price is for Kedco customers only ??)

Just got my 3rd delivery from BALCAS at 195.00/Ton

Biglad, there isn't really a huge difference in the bagged and bulk pellets, thought 2 years ago they were saying bulk would be roughly half the price of bagged.

This latest delivery was a french pellet called Cogra where as the first load was Kedco bagged pellets.

tinofapples

Oh by the way, have any of you any suggestions/drawings for a bulk storage area ?

towbar

we get ours from Robinsons in Hillsborough in bulk bags 600kg - price can vary I think depending on trsansport cost but averages 230 delivered to Dundalk in 5 ton lots.

Quality is reasonable - there is some dust in them but have had no problems with the verner boiler - very occasionally the boiler may fail to light on first attempt (less than once a month) and you have to manually reset.

If there is anyone in the area wants to try these pellets drop me a pm and you can collect a bag or whatever suits.

Interesting link
www.woodenergy.ie/iopen24/pub/ccncheckpelletquality.pdf

tinofapples

we get ours from Robinsons in Hillsborough in bulk bags 600kg - price can vary I think depending on trsansport cost but averages 230 delivered to Dundalk in 5 ton lots

5 tonnes for 230 ?? Now that is cheap, very cheap.

towbar

230 per ton sorry to disappoint

Octopus

Hi all

Very interested in keeping this thread going as i'm hoping to have my pellet boiler commissioned this week.
It's a Gerkros

I've been reading all the threads up to this and have been keeping an eye on some of the prices. I've just bought some bags locally to start off with to get the boiler commissioned but once i'm up and running i'll need to get my first major purchase.
At the moment I don't have a bulk storage, which is a whole other conversation, Balcas 'britestore' or 'biobin' or self build?

So the question is what are people buying and for how much, if bulk delivery is circa €200 / tonne and loose bagged is circa €235 / tonne it would take 20 years to pay back on a €2000 bulk storage unit using 3 tonne of pellets a year. I'm sure some cheaper options would become available in that timeframe.

How much are people paying for a pallet of 10kg or 15kg bags and from who?

I'm weighing up my options at the moment, i'll probably get a 1 tonne pallet of bagged pellets (depending on price) to start me off. It'll be a bit of work to stack them in the shed but thats no problem. What do people do with the loose bagged. I presume whoever delivers them just drops them off. Are you left with a big bag of loose pellets in your driveway, what happens then?? This would probably work for someone with a large shed where the delivery can be dropped straight in, would they not get damp over time or would people transfer them into smaller bags?

So many questions I know but when you've been watching things for so long you have to let it all out at some stage.

Any information is appreciated, I'm based in north Dublin by the way for anyone recommending local suppliers.

Bald? er, dash!

Octopus wrote: »

Any information is appreciated, I'm based in north Dublin by the way for anyone recommending local suppliers.

We have been buying bagged Brites from a place in Navan, but at €320 :eek: per tonne, I've recently build an extension to take bulk deliveries up to 4 tonnes.

Will probably get Balcas for bulk deliveries, have been happy with the quality of their pellets vs. other suppliers

tinofapples

So the question is what are people buying and for how much, if bulk delivery is circa €200 / tonne and loose bagged is circa €235 / tonne it would take 20 years to pay back on a €2000 bulk storage unit using 3 tonne of pellets a year.

As i mentioned above 18/24 months ago "they" were sayin that bulk delivery of pellets would be roughly half the price of bagged ones and that to maximise savings versus oil that was they way to go.

Who knows what will happen with pellet prices in the medium/long term.

Octopus

tinofapples wrote: »

They were €233 for the tonne from Kedco (I think this price is for Kedco customers only ??)

Hi tinofapples

Thats a great price, if that price ratio of bagged to bulk was to stay constant it wouldn't be worth your while getting a bulk store.
Unfortunately for me I did hear that Kedco give discounts to customers who have bought burners from them. Not sure what the price would be for off the street customers.

If anyone has any prices for bulk, bulk bagged or bagged post them here so we can compare.

tinofapples

Unfortunately for me I did hear that Kedco give discounts to customers who have bought burners from them

Yes indeed this is the case. My rep gave me the last ton at the "old" price he did mention they were going/gone up but I have to admit I didn't take much heed of what the price increase was.

yakyak

Just reading all the threads, having just got my latest delivery from Balcas i must say that there was very little dust in this load. My biggest issues is as follows...My initial 3t delivery,second 3t delivery varied so much in comparison to the latest drop in terms of volume of pellets. I mean that the difference in terms of the latest drop taking up a more substantial amount of space in the storage area.
I have not yet queried this with Balcas, but as i have of now marked the level which three tonne should be in the store, i now have a marker for future deliveries.
Has anyone else had a suspect shortfall in their delivery, if so let me know. I may be wrong, but the difference in area covered was substantially more than before. I will be keeping an eye on this in future.

Paid €199 per tonne delivered (three tonne).

yakyak

Anyone interested in a hopper let me know, standard one for any viadrus boiler or i am sure would suit other makes, stand with it never used.........whats it worth to you??? lying Galway if interested.

yakyak

Lads, Lads,Lads,

The whole point of getting a wp boiler is to be more efficient in your useage of fuel. Oil is rising at a drastic rate, we are an island ecconomy dependent on imports and with a government reluctant to take the lead in encouraging greener useage. The cowboys out there who have set up selling bagged pellets are banking on the majority not considering tonnage storage for the first year of their installation, hence the ridiculous prices.

Build a store to house 3.5 tonne yourself, if you have the room in the garage insulate it and build it upwards, doing this as opposed to buying an overpriced, untested (moisture related) silo will cost you the earth and defeat the gians/savings you anticipated. Buy in bulk and save money and be the envy of your neighbours who laughed at the thought of using pellets (before the yanks bomb Iran and drive the price of oil into the stratosphere!!)

Just a thought, but i am saving a fortune compared to when i initially bought bagged pellets. House is 2,650s/ft dry lined/new 2006 build/ and using at present ..............................under 6 tonne per year, and i aint skimpin on the heat!!!!!!!!!

Octopus

Biglad - Balcas quote €195/tonne blown in.
Tinofapples - Kedco bagged on pallet €223 for customers
Towbar - Hillsborough supplier 600kg bags at €230/tonne (In 5 tonne loads)
I have seen a quote on a different website for balcas €220/tonne

Some more prices.

Kedco bagged on pallet - €366/tonne for non customers. (Seriously, stop laughing).
Kedco Bulk, blown in - €270/tonne for non customers.

Irish Bio fuels bagged on pallet - €335/tonne.
Irish Bio fuels 1 tonne bulk bag - €300 (need to supply own lifting equipment).

Leinster Pellets Bulk, blown in - €235/tonne
Leinster Pellets 800kg bulk bag - €275, (€344/tonne)
Leinster Pellets 10kg bags - €350/tonne.

Whites Agri North Dublin - €6 for 18kg bag, (€333/tonne).

Kerrybiofuels pallet of 10kg bags - Offer price €280/tonne (delivery to leinster €70)

Entech prices Unconfirmed from website.
Entech 10kg Bag - €3/bag. €300/tonne.
Entech bulk blown - €167/tonne (min order 3 tonne).
Aaargghh....Wont let me post link for Entech. Something odd going on??
Just google ireland 'Entech', first on list.


What about yourself builderwoman?
Towbar, how do you deal with the 600kg bags

towbar

Octopus - good summary.

Have them stored in a grain store a couple of mile from where I live so when bag runs out I collect a new bag in car trailer and either leave it on the trailer or slide it off onto floor in garage. Just fill the boiler with a bucket.

The price differences are amazing we just need some way to evaluate quality to see if the higher prices are justified.

I know we burned 7 tonne last year for a 2200 sq ft house which seems high although it is a bungalow so no heat gain with upstairs rooms and roof wasnt insulated when we first moved in. Based on the 2 ton = 1 litre rule would have expected to burn 5-6 tonne so clearly if a more efficient pellet could save me 1 ton a year I could afford to pay more per ton.

I know last month we were buring an avg of 20kg per day and this month it will be gone up to about 30kgs. During January and Feb last year it was up to almost 50kg.

Jack Duckworth

Try http://www.woodpelletsales.ie/ for pelletts. Based near Mullingar. Pellets for around 200 Euro/tonne.

tinofapples

Folks,
What are you all paying for bulk blown pellets at the minute, will soon need to get 3 tonnes again and just happened to receive a letter from my boiler provider whom I've purchased pellets from up till now. Last time I ordered I paid €555 for the 3 tonnes, their current price is €245 per tonne working out at €735, almost €200 of an increase :mad:

This is what I was afraid would happen with pellet prices, sure aren't we at the mercy of pellet suppliers here.

Anyway has anyone a supplier cheaper than that of good quality ?


p.s My boiler & pellet supplier also sent me a gift :eek: A voucher of €100 towards a WP boiler (Hello I've got one!!) or solar panel system

towbar

balcas is about 210 a ton - sterling rate is £146 but you cant pay in sterling for delivery in south.

ShowAndGo

I recently got 3 tn from Firestixx/TimberPro:
€245/tn - good service and good quality pellets

tinofapples

Thanks folks.

Kashkai

Leinster Pellets in Blessington delivered 2 tonnes of bagged pellets to me for €650. I know people will say go for bulk deliveries but the cost of a silo is €2,400 which would buy a lot of pellets. I don't have a garage so the outside silo is the only, expensive option.

BTW, Leinster Pellets were quoting €650 for delivery of 3 tonnes of bulk pellets so I missed out on the extra tonne by buying bagged, but this might be useful for those who do have a silo.

Delivery was same day, i.e. ordered at 11am, delivered at 4.30pm to my place in Prosperous, Co. Kildare.

blackbox

Based on the current retail price of heating oil at Euro570 per 1000 litres, you are saving money if you get the pellets at less than Euro260 per tonne.

(based on oil 36.4MJ/litre, wood 17GJ/tonne)

This is assuming that a wood pellet boiler is as efficient as an oil boiler. It makes no allowance for the additional cost of wood boiler or storage facilities. Based on posts above, it appears that wood pellet boilers require significantly more attention and maintenance.

Some people have wood pellet boilers for environmental rather than economic reasons - this is a different issue.

Biglad

Just received a 3 tonne delivery of balcas last week at a cost of 626 Euro. I've been trying other suppliers but nobody could match that price. The pellets look to be of good quality with acceptable dust levels. Our mescoli does not care about dust and just burns it. This summer i took the whole hopper and auger appart to clean it, what a waste of time, no dust in the auger or bottom of the hopper. Since the start in Feb. '07 we've had 2 break downs due to broken ignition elements. In both occasions they were replaced under warrantee (it's so simple I did it myself). Unfortunately we haven't been able to find out why they broke. My mate has the same boiler which was commissioned a couple of weeks after mine and he hasn't had any issues.
With oil prices fluctuating like share prices it's clear to us that we made the right decision in choosing to go with pellets. Next on the list is an accumulator tank to save even more on pellets and maximize the efficiency of the set up.
I've also had a guy in to tell us a bit more about solar panels. The best thing he told us was the fact that our situation (position of house and garage) was nowhere near perfect for solar panels so that was that.

Rain Dogs

Hello folks,

Been reading up on the threads and appreciate all the info.

We've got a new-build (approx 2,000 sq feet) in Sligo and an Ecoteck, Genova stove with boiler sitting in the kitchen and a good sized garage (not dry-lined).

Our plumber sold us some 10kg bags @ 3 euro a go and we seem to be going through them at a ferocious rate in trying to dry out the house.

We'd like to settle on the most cost-effective way of ordering a large quantity and would appreciate any advice.

- Loose 10kg bags from local retailers €3.30 X 100 = €330 per tonne.
- A pallet of 10kg bags - perhaps a tonnes worth. Does anyone know who would deliver such a thing?
- A large bag of 650kg/1,000kg as mentioned above. This sounded economical but how to get such a bag into the garage and would pellets get damp even if you could???
- Invest in a silo and buy loose pellets in bulk.

All opinions and experiences most welcome. Happy Christmas!

Guvnor

Very interesting read.
The humidity levels in Ireland are very high as in over 95% in some cases!
Our garage has humidity levels as much as 80% which I am assuming would not be great for the pellets!?

3-5 tonne of pellets would take up how much space? I assume you can get a fully automated set up / feeder?

towbar

we used bulk bags up to last year when finally bought an external tank.
Didnt have problems with the ones stored in garage as the boiler is in there and there was enopugh heat to keep humidy right I'm guessing but I did have bags stored in a shed for a while and while mostly alright one bag that was there 6 months absorbed some mositure but fortunately our boiler had no problems with it except that it used it faster. I just filled from bulk bag into the hopper with a bucket.

I wonder will the lower oil price cause pellets to drop... personally doubt it as we are all locked in now!

Kashkai

I can't see pellets dropping in price due to demand/lack of suppliers. I paid €650 for 2 tonnes of baged pellets 6 weeks ago. However as for being "locked in", I also have an oil burner as back up and now that the price of 1,000 litres has dropped from almost €800 when I priced it in July to €500 now, guess which I'll be using for a while. I care more about my wallet than the environment tbh. Paying extra to be green won't pay the mortgage or feed the family.

Jack Duckworth

Hello all, Need to order 3.5 tonnes of pellets again shortly. whats the going rate and quality like out there for bulk pellets delivered?
Thanks, J.D.:rolleyes:

burrelton

Recently bought a wood burning 25K self cleaning Gerkros boiler but cant get the code to commission it as Gerkros are no longer trading. Can anyone help?

Energysaver

Jack Duckworth wrote: »

Hello all, Need to order 3.5 tonnes of pellets again shortly. whats the going rate and quality like out there for bulk pellets delivered?
Thanks, J.D.:rolleyes:

I paid about €625 for 3 tonnes of bulk pellets from Balcas about 2 weeks ago. Quality seems OK but I've heard rumours that some people have had poor quality bulk pellets recently - I'm not sure from what suppliers though.

Energysaver

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

I can't see pellets dropping in price due to demand/lack of suppliers. I paid €650 for 2 tonnes of baged pellets 6 weeks ago. However as for being "locked in", I also have an oil burner as back up and now that the price of 1,000 litres has dropped from almost €800 when I priced it in July to €500 now, guess which I'll be using for a while. I care more about my wallet than the environment tbh. Paying extra to be green won't pay the mortgage or feed the family.

I agree, lack of supply and suppliers seems to be a problem. Price went up when oil went up but price doesn't seem to be coming down to match. I can only find one supplier to deliver bulk to Leitrim - does anyone know of any other? I've done a google search without luck.

Native Hawk

I have also recieved delivery from Balcas in January. Paid approximatley €1,000 for 5 Tonnes. Quality was good on this occasion (I have had dusty pellets from them in the past). I am burning approximatley 5-6 Tonnes per year for a 160M2 house. How do these figures compare with everybody else?

Bancini

Is it true that Germany and Austria are pushing to make pellet burners illegal due to the sulphur produced? This will in turn push the rest of Europe to follow suit. I remember my lecturer mentioning something along those lines???

Red Camel

Bancini wrote: »

Is it true that Germany and Austria are pushing to make pellet burners illegal due to the sulphur produced? This will in turn push the rest of Europe to follow suit. I remember my lecturer mentioning something along those lines???

Do wood pellets produce much sulphur? I thought that coal boilers and diesel cars produced much more, are they going to be banned too? Is this a wind up?

Energysaver

Native Hawk wrote: »

I have also recieved delivery from Balcas in January. Paid approximatley €1,000 for 5 Tonnes. Quality was good on this occasion (I have had dusty pellets from them in the past). I am burning approximatley 5-6 Tonnes per year for a 160M2 house. How do these figures compare with everybody else?

I've used about 7.5tonnes for a year for 210m2 house but I also have solar for hot water in summer. I've been led to believe that I should only use about 3 - 4 tonnes for my house, if so, something's wrong somewhere.

Bancini

No it's not a wind up. By product of wood being burnt is sulphur. Sulphur in the air = Sulphuric Acid ( I know its a lot more complicated than that ). Sulphuric Acid is bad for oxygen producing trees. If I remember correctly, when mainland Europe pushed this form of CH, the effects on the Black Forest were detected pretty much straight away?

Bancini

Red Camel wrote: »

Do wood pellets produce much sulphur? I thought that coal boilers and diesel cars produced much more, are they going to be banned too? Is this a wind up?

Are you leaving your CH on all day/night?

jimmysull

I got a tonne of bagged pellets delivered yesterday from Kedco.
It was €320 incl delivery.
I bought them online from their "Renewable Energy Shop" which was kind of handy..... I did shop around first though;)

towbar

Energysaver - your usage is fairly good - we used about 8 ton in a 230 sq meter house. The guide is meant to be 2 ton pellets = 1000l - I think it depends very much on pellet quality. Heat is used throughout day though

Red Camel

Bancini wrote: »

No it's not a wind up. By product of wood being burnt is sulphur. Sulphur in the air = Sulphuric Acid ( I know its a lot more complicated than that ). Sulphuric Acid is bad for oxygen producing trees. If I remember correctly, when mainland Europe pushed this form of CH, the effects on the Black Forest were detected pretty much straight away?

Can you point me to where you get your info on this? I understood that the Black Forest suffered from the acid rain caused (ultimately) by burning coal and oil all through the industrial revolution and up to recent times. I didn't think the Forest started to suffer when Austria and Germany started burning wood fuel for domestic heating in recent times. See http://www.enfo.ie/leaflets/bs24.htm about acid rain from the Enfo website.

The main products of burning wood are CO2 and water, see http://www.ucc.ie/academic/chem/dolchem/html/dict/combust.html from UCC to see an explanation of the burning of charcoal. There will be other gases produced based on any impurities and other substances present in the wood, but these are small.

See http://www.irbea.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=228&Itemid=44 from the Irish Bioenergy Association about burning wood, particularly the paragraph "Wood contains very little sulphur and burns into water and carbon dioxide."

I think we're getting a bit OT here, but I couldn't let your suggestion that wood pellets may be banned due to the amount of sulphur dioxide they produce go unchallenged. You haven't provided any evidence to support your suggestion other than what you remember from a college lecturer. Please provide evidence to support your post because if your suggestion is correct, then I'm sure that people who are choosing wood pellets would stop and think again.

And here's another link: http://www.ncp.fi/koulutusohjelmat/metsa/WoodEnergyEcology/emissions.htm from the North Karelia University of Applied Sciences in Finland about emissions from wood burning. And the Fins know a thing or two about trees - look at Nokia - who would have thought that a crowd of lumberjacks could become the world's No.1 producer of mobile phones!

Sligoaidan

Hi Rain dogs. Im in Sligo too. Where can you get the pellets in bags?. the balcas website said that the innisfree service station supply them, but my was was in asking about them and they said that they didnt...any ideas?
We're at the stage where we'll be drying out the house shortly too, and just want to get bagged pellets till we get a silo set up in the garage

NCF don't have them either, but you'd think they'd be a good bet

fmcc

Hi Aidan we sell bagged pellets from Greenheat. They are an 18.1kg bag for E7.50 a bag which I know is more expensive than Balcas are I think but they are a good quality pellet as we use them in pellet stoves rather than boilers. Plenty in stock and we are based in Finisklin. 071/9154522

ninsaga

I checked out wood pellet prices for bulk delivery - blown in......price per tonne.

D Pellet €210
Balcas €210
Firestixx €245
Kedco €245
Clearpower.ie €215
Future Fuels €220

......of course they all say they have the best pellets

Firestixx claim to have the lowest dust content due to special low bar pressure delivery trucks.

Anyone have experiences.....good bad or indifferent?

towbar

have you noticed balcas sterling price £129+vat. they will not accept sterling though for republic of ireland deliveries. Big difference even allowing 21.5% vat

ninsaga

No - I never checked that when I rang them last week - anyone ever ask why they charge more in the RIP off Republic.....

towbar

You can see it by doing quick quote on the website

I asked and they would not accept sterling payment for ROI delivery

ninsaga

Just curious - did you get Balcas in the end? Any problems with them in terms of dust level?

Is there such a thing as 'bad' pellets or is it just a myth?