Delaying paying VRT until new year

nogoodnamesleft

Hi All,

I recently brought in a car from the UK about 2 weeks ago. However I would like to delay paying the VRT until Janurary 2008. Their is a catch though. I have the car insured with Hibernan and they want the irish registration cert before they renew my insurance in December. Any ideas about how I could manage this 1 as it could save me a bit of money on an illegal tax? Would another insurance company insure the car on the english plates even though I have been insured by hibernan for the last number of years.

Thanks.

Quinn will cover you indefinetly on uk plates they look on them the same as irish plates. Ive my car with them over 6months irish policy uk car and im living in the uk at the moment.

Matt Simis

XS Direct may does this for you over the phone too.

Skyuser

So not only are the goverment charging illegal tax but the insurance companies are refusing to insure a car because its not irish. Do you have more chance of crashing with UK plates?

what_car

nogoodnamesleft wrote: »

Hi All,

I recently brought in a car from the UK about 2 weeks ago. However I would like to delay paying the VRT until Janurary 2008. Their is a catch though. I have the car insured with Hibernan and they want the irish registration cert before they renew my insurance in December. Any ideas about how I could manage this 1 as it could save me a bit of money on an illegal tax? Would another insurance company insure the car on the english plates even though I have been insured by hibernan for the last number of years.

Thanks.

you are breaking the law. you must pay the vrt within 24hrs of the car arriving, i believe.. the customs can sieze your car on the spot for non payment of vrt, ( all it takes is someone to report you) they can even take the car from your driveway...

stop cribbing bout it and pay up......

louie

The above statement is totally true. have seen it done.

Anan1

Skyuser wrote: »

So not only are the goverment charging illegal tax but the insurance companies are refusing to insure a car because its not irish. Do you have more chance of crashing with UK plates?

I would say yes, on a purely actuarial basis. People who have shown a willingness to break one law are more likely to break others. This is why they load for road traffic convictions.

Matt Simis

what_car wrote: »

you are breaking the law. you must pay the vrt within 24hrs of the car arriving, i believe.. the customs can sieze your car on the spot for non payment of vrt, ( all it takes is someone to report you) they can even take the car from your driveway...

stop cribbing bout it and pay up......

Yes, its outrageous that someone might want to save EUR1k to EUR15k of a possibly illegal tax by delaying (not dodging it) paying it by a few weeks. We should all roll over and be told whats right and wrong and good for us. :eek:

Youre whats wrong with the voting public.

ambro25

what_car wrote:

you are breaking the law. you must pay the vrt within 24hrs of the car arriving, i believe.. the customs can sieze your car on the spot for non payment of vrt, ( all it takes is someone to report you)
<snip>
stop cribbing bout it and pay up......

How's the view from up there?

what_car wrote:

they can even take the car from your driveway...

No, they can't. They'd have to get a warrant to seize anything which sits on private property.

MercMad

.............and for some reason you think that warrants are hard to come by for the Revenue Commisioners ??

Besides the fact that I dont like tax dodgers the OP never said he was going to drive it until January. He may want to insure it in case of damage and keep it on his driveway.

I feel a lot of folk are unaware that it is illegal for an Irish resident to drive a foreign reg'd car in Ireland, and I would expect and insurance Company to use that as an escape route in the event of an accident !

Esel

Matt Simis wrote: »

Yes, its outrageous that someone might want to save EUR1k to EUR15k of a possibly illegal tax by delaying (not dodging it) paying it by a few weeks.

A few examples of how to save €15K by delaying a few weeks, please. Can't find any? Not surprised.

Re seizing car from private property:

ambro25 wrote: »

No, they can't. They'd have to get a warrant to seize anything which sits on private property.

Think you're wrong there!

delly

I really don't think there would be much saving in waiting for the new year. Surely they would go on a month by month basis?

alias no.9

It's up to you whether you want to take the risk. The potential consequences include the car being seized and having to pay a fine on top of the VRT, your insurance company refusing to pay out on anything other than a third party claim if you have a knock. They may ask you for proof of when you imported the car, but even if they don't, it's unlikely that there'll be a steped reduction in the VRO's valuation of your car between now and then.
People have this notion that cars magically fall in price straight after the new year, but they don't really. Second hand car sales are very busy early in the new year, this keeps prices up. Prices tend to fall later in the year when activity in the market slows down. Shopping around at this time of year and having a brass neck when dealing with salesmen can get you a better deal now than you'd get on the same car in january when they'll be busy with softer customers. The only car you're going to make a significant saving on is an expensive classic that was first registered in january 1978, which will change to a €50 flat rate of VRT, having become an official classic.

smash

what_car wrote: »

you are breaking the law. you must pay the vrt within 24hrs of the car arriving, i believe.. the customs can sieze your car on the spot for non payment of vrt, ( all it takes is someone to report you) they can even take the car from your driveway...

stop cribbing bout it and pay up......

get off your soap box, everyone knows the law! He's asking a question about insurance and has admitted he's going to pay VRT in the new year.... stop whinging!

Matt Simis

esel wrote: »

A few examples of how to save €15K by delaying a few weeks, please. Can't find any? Not surprised.

Re seizing car from private property: Think you're wrong there!

Its not that hard to guestimate.

Open up the VRT Calc.
Take any car, 2004 fill in the details. Note that the month seems to make no difference as the VRT system only tracks years (its not dynamically updated). Note the VRT amount due. Go back and change it to 2003, note the change. This (baring potential VRT process changes which really can happen anytime) is the amount that will drop on 1st Jan too (again, they track years on the VRT system). This is of course because the VRT duty is based on the presumed selling price, which is affected by the year of registration.

Simply put, buying a car now costs you more of this "tax" then it would for the same car, same year of initial registration than it would in January.

EUR15k was an arbitrary number, pick something expensive to replicate.

JHMEG

God I hate threads where a low to no-post poster asks a question and then fecks off, and.. leaves a whole pile of bickering in his/her wake!

If the OP is still reading (doubt it), if the V5 has been dated by the seller it won't matter when the VRT is paid... it'll be charged at the rate on the date of sale.

Matt Simis

JHMEG wrote: »

God I hate threads where a low to no-post poster asks a question and then fecks off, and.. leaves a whole pile of bickering in his/her wake!

If the OP is still reading (doubt it), if the V5 has been dated by the seller it won't matter when the VRT is paid... it'll be charged at the rate on the date of sale.

That contradicts the general consensus that VRT is paid from the point the vehicle is driven on Irish roads (which is what the OP will be "fudging"). The date on the V5 merely shows when ownership transferred in the UK, nothing more.

nogoodnamesleft

Yes JHMEG I am still reading!! And no the V5 wasnt to my knowledge dated ill have to check it when i get home. I was given to me directly as the DVLA cannot process it as I am not a UK resident. Im am going to pay the tax but im going to make it easier on my posket as possible. For those of ye cribbin about not paying VRT etc..etc. Go into the next halting site and spot how many nothern and Uk registered Transits are there and tell d boys there. C what input they would give ye

JohnCleary

Matt Simis wrote: »

That contradicts the general consensus that VRT is paid from the point the vehicle is driven on Irish roads (which is what the OP will be "fudging"). The date on the V5 merely shows when ownership transferred in the UK, nothing more.

Correct. Say I buy a car for export in the UK in Jan 2006, and store it in the UK until Jan 2007, then bring it in and go to VRT it, it doesn't make sense that i'd be paying VRT of Jan 2006 if it wasn't even in the country

Matt Simis

nogoodnamesleft wrote: »

Go into the next halting site and spot how many nothern and Uk registered Transits are there and tell d boys there. C what input they would give ye

Or see how eager Customs and Gardai are to go in there and attempt to take their vehicles. Much easier to bully soft targets into paying..

RobAMerc

I would pay it now - not because of the crap people above are giving you, but because the VRT will be going up in the budget and you'll end up paying more than you'll save by the car being one year older.

SIMI have adds on the radio stating its going up so I imagine theres some truth in the rumor.

ambro25

MercMad wrote:

.............and for some reason you think that warrants are hard to come by for the Revenue Commisioners ?

No, but then broad-brush point attracts broad-brush response, excuse me for not taking everything including the captains' age and today's barometric pressure into consideration before replying

esel wrote: »

Re seizing car from private property: Think you're wrong there!

:Think you want to substantiate somewhat there!

Del2005

I would pay it now - not because of the crap people above are giving you, but because the VRT will be going up in the budget and you'll end up paying more than you'll save by the car being one year older.

SIMI have adds on the radio stating its going up so I imagine theres some truth in the rumor.

Yes they are going to still have similar bands for VRT, but they will load dirty cars and discount green cars. See link below, this is only a disscusion document but can't see them changing it much

http:]
//www.budget.gov.ie/2007/downloads/AnnexD.pdf

JHMEG

Matt Simis wrote: »

That contradicts the general consensus that VRT is paid from the point the vehicle is driven on Irish roads (which is what the OP will be "fudging"). The date on the V5 merely shows when ownership transferred in the UK, nothing more.

The date on the V5 shows what date it transferred into the ownership of the person now wishing to pay VRT.

The VRO checked the date on the V5 when I brought in the Accord. That date was the day before so there was no issue. If it had been 3 months before I presented the car to the VRO I would imagine I would have some explaining to do. I doubt the VRO would have to believe my story either.

ambro25

JHMEG wrote: »

The date on the V5 shows what date it transferred into the ownership of the person now wishing to pay VRT.

The VRO checked the date on the V5 when I brought in the Accord. That date was the day before so there was no issue. If it had been 3 months before I presented the car to the VRO I would imagine I would have some explaining to do. I doubt the VRO would have to believe my story either.

The VRO will have no choice but to "go with your story" if it is factually documented.

E.g. buy the car in January in the UK, put it on the ferry (for whatever reasons) in July = VRT from July, not January.

Ownership is distinct from importing, and from registration. All three have respective, different definitions (semantically and legally).

VRT is payable on registration, registration is mandatory for a resident to drive on public roads: don't drive on public road (e.g. store, or track use exclusively and carted about on trailer) or driven by non-resident = no need to register.

VRO says/acts different = actionable in Court.

galwaytt

JHMEG wrote: »

The date on the V5 shows what date it transferred into the ownership of the person now wishing to pay VRT.

The VRO checked the date on the V5 when I brought in the Accord. That date was the day before so there was no issue. If it had been 3 months before I presented the car to the VRO I would imagine I would have some explaining to do. I doubt the VRO would have to believe my story either.

How did you get a V5 to an Irish address? (I presume that's what you mean...)

OTH, if they just hand you the V5 when you collect the car, you're not on it at all, and the only dates refer to the person YOU'RE buying it from, and when THEY bought it from the previous owners.

JHMEG

galwaytt wrote: »

How did you get a V5 to an Irish address? (I presume that's what you mean...)

OTH, if they just hand you the V5 when you collect the car, you're not on it at all, and the only dates refer to the person YOU'RE buying it from, and when THEY bought it from the previous owners.

Seller filled in V5 and handed it to me. It's not a great idea for a seller *not* to put on the new owner's details and date.. ie seller has no protection then.

I had told him in advance that it was a waste of time sending it to the DVLA, as they'd just send it on to me, albeit 6 weeks later. So either way the V5 ends up at an Irish address, the only difference being whether or not it goes thru the DVLA or not.

@ambro25. If the story is backed up with documentary evidence, then yes. If you appear in the VRO 3 months after the sale date as the the V5 without any such evidence, then they don't have to believe you.

Owen

JHMEG wrote: »

Seller filled in V5 and handed it to me. It's not a great idea for a seller *not* to put on the new owner's details and date.. ie seller has no protection then

Than the seller made a big boo boo, didn't he? There's a perforated section of the V5 that the seller tears out and posts to the DVLA in Swansea, it's an export stub - it covers the seller's liability, the rest of the document does not need to be filled out. The VRO does that when returning the remainder of the V5 to Swansea.

Senna

in 2006 the vrt on my car dropped in August, luckily a few weeks before i bought it. so they may adjust vrt at any stage of the year.
Not long before that, the vrt on a UK mr2 went up, nearly €100 on a 1995.
so i would just pay it now, it could go up.

Gatster

Sorry JHMEG, but I don't think your suspicion is the norm. I registered both cars that I 'imported' at my UK address and drove them around In Ireland on UK plates for reasonably lengthy periods (>6 months) before going near the VRT office.
Walked in with the V5 (in my name) X amount of months later, paid the amount quoted on the web and walked out, the dates they came into my ownership never came into it.

You pay the VRT price as it is on the day you walk in, I really don't think they could be arsed to work out what the VRT could have been a 3/6/9/12 months ago while you are sat there.

Elara: Kin

Dont think the change in the VRT is coming in till the year after next.

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2007/1005/breaking63.htm

JHMEG

ned78 wrote: »

Than the seller made a big boo boo, didn't he? There's a perforated section of the V5 that the seller tears out and posts to the DVLA in Swansea, it's an export stub - it covers the seller's liability, the rest of the document does not need to be filled out. The VRO does that when returning the remainder of the V5 to Swansea.

I don't get you ned, re the seller and a boo boo? The seller did send that tiny bit to the DVLA. Up till recently (18-months) the entire V5 was sent to the DVLA, and an awful lot of people are not aware that this is not the case any more. I had to presuade the seller that sending the whole thing would only delay the process.

@Kin Mak.. mid 2008 is actually next year!

philcsl

JHMEG wrote: »

The date on the V5 shows what date it transferred into the ownership of the person now wishing to pay VRT.

The VRO checked the date on the V5 when I brought in the Accord. That date was the day before so there was no issue. If it had been 3 months before I presented the car to the VRO I would imagine I would have some explaining to do. I doubt the VRO would have to believe my story either.

They check the date on the V5 in the VRO and if it is within 1 day they take that as proof that the car has just been imported.

If the date on the V5 is 6 months ago then the VRO will generally ask for proof that the car has just been imported - this is simple to get around.

Just book a ferry ticket online (go for the cheap one that takes an 8 hour journey) and on the booking you put the UK reg. You then print off the ferry ticket with the date of the sailing and the reg and you can bring this to the VRO as proof that it has just been imported.

It doesn't even have to be stamped by the ferry company to say that you actually took the journey. You then go into the VRO the next day and it appears that you have just imported it the previous day.

I brought over a car from England on Monday and paid the VRT on Tuesday and it was the guy in the VRO that told me this.

kindalen

you only have to pay vrt on a road car?
why not say you bought it for offroad/track and changed your mind?
this would be no use if your driving the car around,but if your leaving it on your driveway....

JHMEG

kindalen wrote: »

you only have to pay vrt on a road car?
why not say you bought it for offroad/track and changed your mind?
this would be no use if your driving the car around,but if your leaving it on your driveway....

I think some ppl are missing the point here. The VRO is a section of the Revenue, and they make the rules. Unless you have evidence to back you claim they can do what they like... The taxman is the law!

Esel

ambro25 wrote: »

esel wrote: »

Re seizing car from private property: Think you're wrong there!

ambro25 wrote: »

:Think you want to substantiate somewhat there!

No mate, as you made the claim, I'd say it is you who has to substantiate somewhat.

what_car

Matt Simis wrote: »

Yes, its outrageous that someone might want to save EUR1k to EUR15k of a possibly illegal tax by delaying (not dodging it) paying it by a few weeks. We should all roll over and be told whats right and wrong and good for us. :eek:

Youre whats wrong with the voting public.

stop talking through your **************

the current law of the land says that you pay vrt... be it in question legally or not.. btw i didnt waste a vote on the current ********** thats running the country...

if you cannot afford to pay the tax then dont buy simple as that. when i buy my cars i have to pay the VRT, and mind u i have spend thousands on vrt over the last few years all on new cars mind you.

i would like not to have to pay it, but its the law...

as you mention delaying it , you are defrauding the revenue from tax due, by delaying it you are reducing the final amount that will be paid.. thus defrauding the revenue ...:D the law is the law.

Owen

JHMEG wrote: »

I don't get you ned, re the seller and a boo boo? The seller did send that tiny bit to the DVLA. Up till recently (18-months) the entire V5 was sent to the DVLA, and an awful lot of people are not aware that this is not the case any more. I had to presuade the seller that sending the whole thing would only delay the process.

Sorry, I should have clarified. You said the Seller put the date of transaction on the V5 so if you delayed VRTing the car, you'd be hit with a penalty. When I imported both my bikes, and my MINI, both sellers just sent back the little slip, and didn't fill any details whatsoever into the V5 to 'timestamp' the transaction.

what_car

ambro25 wrote: »

How's the view from up there?



No, they can't. They'd have to get a warrant to seize anything which sits on private property.

yes they can. they can go onto your property and seize your car. if you dont believe me check it out yourself. i know...

will someone please inform this person......:D

Owen

what_car wrote: »

yes they can. they can go onto your property and seize your car. if you dont believe me check it out yourself. i know...

will someone please inform this person......:D

Not without due proof that the car has been driven on the road. For example, I know of one car which is still on UK plates (Not mine by the way before anyone suggests it) which is exclusively a track car. The Revenue have no right to come onto his property and seize his vehicle, unless they can provide evidence that it has been driven on the public highway.

what_car

steve06 wrote: »

get off your soap box, everyone knows the law! He's asking a question about insurance and has admitted he's going to pay VRT in the new year.... stop whinging!

im not on any soap box.

what_car

nogoodnamesleft wrote: »

Im am going to pay the tax but im going to make it easier on my posket as possible. For those of ye cribbin about not paying VRT etc..etc.

when i buy my cars i have to pay VRT so why shouldnt everyone else. the law is for everyone not just a select few..
the discussion here as posted by the op is to seek advice on reducing the amount due to the revenue of VRT ..

I ASK NOW THAT THE MODS CLOSE THIS THREAD.:eek:

Owen

Could you two cut the bickering? There's be no need to close this thread at all. What has developed from the OP's question, is that people are asking questions about VRT, about the importation process, and learning. Which is what Forums (Fora(?)) are for.

bazz26

I know somebody who had their UK import seized and impounded by Customs. He was stopped at a checkpoint one day by them and told to pay the VRT and have the car on Irish plates within 5 working days. He put it on the long finger and low and behold he was sitting down watching tv one afternoon and heard lots of noise outside his door. He went outside to investigate and found his car being put on a transporter. Customs officers were there in their clearly market uniforms along with 2 Gardai. He was told where he could get the car back and how much it would cost. He ended up paying VRT, a fine or penalty and an impound fee.

Customs do have more power than the Gardai and can seize the car on private property if they see fit. the Gardai are there as witnesses in making sure they are acting within their powers and the law in the event of a dispute.

what_car

bazz26 wrote: »

I know somebody who had their UK import seized and impounded by Customs. He was stopped at a checkpoint one day by them and told to pay the VRT and have the car on Irish plates within 5 working days. He put it on the long finger and low and behold he was sitting down watching tv one afternoon and heard lots of noise outside his door. He went outside to investigate and found his car being put on a transporter. Customs officers were there in their clearly market uniforms along with 2 Gardai. He was told where he could get the car back and how much it would cost. He ended up paying VRT, a fine or penalty and an impound fee.

Customs do have more power than the Gardai and can seize the car on private property if they see fit. the Gardai are there as witnesses in making sure they are acting within their powers and the law in the event of a dispute.

exactly.. i hear that they read boards.ie posts too
i have noticed an increase in the number of cars driving round on uk plates here..

:p

bazz26

what_car wrote: »

exactly.. i hear that they read boards.ie posts too
i have noticed an increase in the number of cars driving round on uk plates here..

:p

That's not to say though they are all avoiding VRT. Some could simply be tourists visiting the country or working here on short term contracts, which is not unheard of.

what_car

bazz26 wrote: »

That's not to say though they are all avoiding VRT. Some could simply be tourists visiting the country or working here on short term contracts, which is not unheard of.

let me be more specific, have noticed older cars, here for ages and ages on uk plates, with expired uk tax discs in windows.

ambro25

what_car wrote: »

let me be more specific, have noticed older cars, here for ages and ages on uk plates, with expired uk tax discs in windows.

I've noticed countless cars here on Irish plates, with expired tx/NCT/insurance dics in windows.

It's not just Irish who drive untaxed/uninsured y'know, a lot more Brits do (population/number of cars on UK roads in that situation vs total population/number of cars in IE) and some of those do take ferries as well from time to time.

Moral of the story - look thy neighbour's eye and all that

esel wrote: »

ambro25 : No, they can't. They'd have to get a warrant to seize anything which sits on private property.

esel : Re seizing car from private property: Think you're wrong there!

ambro25 :Think you want to substantiate somewhat there!

No mate, as you made the claim, I'd say it is you who has to substantiate somewhat.

Nope, what car made the (very generalistic) claim, I substantiated that they'd have to get a warrant to seize anything on private property.

You then asserted that "I was wrong" (no more), then so did what car (again, no more) - I'll accept your refutal of my substantiations if you can substantiate yours, but so far, all both of you have just done is claim that "I'm wrong". Way I see it, ball's in your camp, Champ

The situation pointed out by bazz26 is different, in that proof was adduced by law enforcement that the car had to be VRT'd (under applicable law). In that case, it's not allegations anymore and there is a due cause of action by Customs. That is vastly different from asserting "they can take your care on your drive!" into the wind. And I'll refer you to my earlier post re. non-residents and cars not used on public roads.

Now, since there's already been countless threads on the subject in here, I'll not bother with this one anymore, but I felt compelled to correct some of the usual broad-brush statements trotted out by the habitual brigade, so on that particular point, apologies to the OP for the OT stuff.

nogoodnamesleft

Ive decided ill pay it tomorrow, mainly due to the fact that their will me lot more garda check points etc comming up to xmas. It pains me giving the government that much money especially since they dont do anything productive with it my side of the country. :mad:

keefg

what_car wrote: »

i have noticed an increase in the number of cars driving round on uk plates here..

:p

Not to mention the increase in Polish plates, Lithuanian plates, Latvian plates etc etc etc

Surely our East Euro cousins are liable for the same VRT??

astraboy

keefg wrote: »

Not to mention the increase in Polish plates, Lithuanian plates, Latvian plates etc etc etc

Surely our East Euro cousins are liable for the same VRT??

They are if they are spending more then 6 months in the country with the car. Though its obviously easier to get the Irish citizens on UK plates then the massive amount of eastern european cars. It sickens me that they can get big volvos, BMW's etc and not have to pay our ridiclous road taxes. VRT itself is a real issue with me, as someone above said, its not liek the government do anything productive with it! Another reason to dislike Bertie, who thought it up first day back in 1992........:mad: