Power mod

NakedDex

Ok, third time retyping this due to IE crashes so this time I'm gonna be brief.

I've been looking for an airsoft version of an RS sniper rifle that holds a lot of memories for me. I found it a few weeks back but there's an issue. It's gas powered. Not a problem in itself, but with H134a it fires at about 350fps (stated).
The site offers a service to install a Tanaka Power Control System valve that will allow it to be adjusted down as far as 250fps. Sounds like the solution right? Problem is that it can also be adjusted up to about 450fps.

My question is that will the installation and retailer setting of this to 328fps or below prior to shipping make it legal when it gets to customs (assuming it does get looked at by them). Or will, as I imagine, the potential power still being variable render it illegal and therefore be destroyed while I cry into my silicone oil?
And if not, is there any power mod that I could get the retailer to fit that would allow it legal import and use here since it's gas?

I'd never have so much as a notion to fire above legal limits but I know that me saying "I promise I won't turn the valve up, honest!" in my best Oliver Twist voice while looking at the man who controls my rifles fate with big doe eyes so I need a practical solution.

Boston

Would be down to what ever fire arms officer you're inspected by, but from the sounds of things I don't see how it could be considered legal if its a simple turn of a value to get it firing at 450fps and god knows what with some thing like red gas. I'd go for the 350fps as that measurement is probably in ideal conditions with just the right temperature and a load of other variables, so thats more then likely an upper limit.

NakedDex

Given the price of it, it's a chance I'm not overly willing to take. Knowing my luck the day the officer would recieve it would be the day with ideal conditions.

Evolute

No they are illegal full stop because they may as well be classed as shooting at 450fps as you can make it do so.

Ask if there is a way the retailer can have it so the rifle only shoots at 320 fps or as close as

Boston

NakedDex wrote: »

Given the price of it, it's a chance I'm not overly willing to take. Knowing my luck the day the officer would recieve it would be the day with ideal conditions.

Just so we're clear, I'm saying the gun with a range from 250 to 450 is almost certainly illegal. The 350 fps one may come in under 1 joule when tested

NakedDex

Yes but it's the fact that it only MAY shoot 320fps is what worries me.

The fact that it's only a turn of the valve is what dissuaded me from an immediate order. Is anyone familiar with the PCS? Is there a way to set it so that the valve goes no further than 320fps?
Or is there a velocity adaptor I can have fitted? Or any mod at all that will make it legal.
I seriously am in love with this rifle and to be honest, it will most likely sit in my living room for me to look at and admire for most of it's life. And I don't care what (legal) lengths I have to go to in order to get it into my living room.

o1s1n

If the Tanaka control system can up it to 450fps then it's a no go. Even if you have it imported set to 1 joule, It'll still have the capability of being tuned up to well over.

the law states

"incorporating a barrel from which any projectile can be discharged with such a muzzle energy"

The use of the word "can" has been debated here in the past. And I think it's safe to say that if the airsoft in question doesn't physically have the parts included to go over the 1j then it's legal.

However, this "can" comes into play a bit more when the thing has a control system which can push it to 450fps. The rifle "can" be set to 450fps, even if you choose for it not to>.

As for importing it at 350fps, well, that's still illegal too. I know gas power can fluctuate due to outside factors and not reach its full potential. But they can also fluctuate the other way too. If a gas rifle is designed to go 350fps on 134a, what's it going to do on green or propane? Even if you don't intend to use green or propane, it still has the capability to do so.

I know you really want the thing, but it all sounds very dodgy. You'd really want to be careful.

NakedDex

Let me get something entirely straight to all. I really REALLY want it, but I have no intention of even infringing upon, let alone breaking any laws. I don't want to take a chance if it's not confirmed legal.
Hence why I would like to know if there was a power mod available.

o1s1n

NakedDex wrote: »

Let me get something entirely straight to all. I really REALLY want it, but I have no intention of even infringing upon, let alone breaking any laws. I don't want to take a chance if it's not confirmed legal.
Hence why I would like to know if there was a power mod available.

That's entirely clear by from your post. Would be why the thread is still open

As for a solution. Hmm. As far as I know, Tanaka have recently had a restriction put on their gas rifles to make them come under the 1 joule as stated in Japanese law. So they no longer have a PCS system. I know this has happened to their m700 range but I'm not sure about the rest.

davvowl

law interpretation can be pretty hard...
aeg's could be illegal because you "can" put a stronger spring to make it over 328 fps
and you "can" adjust the PCS to make your sniper over 328fps...
what you can do it get one with a PCS via a retailer, set it to 328fps and then block the PCS, maybe that could do the trick..

kdouglas

you might be able to do it if you had the PCS welded at 320fps i guess

the thing is with putting a strong spring in to go over 1 joule, it's a modification to the equipment and not as easy as turning up a valve

o1s1n

davvowl wrote: »

law interpretation can be pretty hard...
aeg's could be illegal because you "can" put a stronger spring to make it over 328 fps
and you "can" adjust the PCS to make your sniper over 328fps...
what you can do it get one with a PCS via a retailer, set it to 328fps and then block the PCS, maybe that could do the trick..

The main difference being that you would have to modify the AEG to get it to go over the 1 joule. You wouldn't have to modify the gas rifle.

The "can" cant cover potential modifications as if it did, anything with a barrel would be a firearm. Which pretty much makes the law useless.

That would be my own interpretation anyway.

If he buys one with a PCS and has it set to 328fps for import, it's still technically a firearm going through customs as it has the potential to be tuned up. Again, this potential isn't in a AEG as you'd have to modify it with a spring.

I hope that makes sense. It does in my own head anyway!

davvowl

well, on a star UMP you can get the spring changed in less than a minute
must be the only aeg with this : fold the stock, insert screwdriver, open gearbox rear, change spring, you're done !

@o1s1n : excellent point you made here ! the possibility to increase the aeg's power isnt in the aeg, however it is in the gas powered sniper with pcs.

NakedDex

o1s1n wrote: »

Tanaka have recently had a restriction put on their gas rifles to make them come under the 1 joule as stated in Japanese law.

Problem is, this is a Star, not a Tanaka. The retailer just offered to fit the pcs as a service. And I'm not sure you can weld the pcs. Welding pneumatic valves almost always ends up in damage. Especially with such a small valve.

HarryHirsch

There is a solution for the dilemma:

A) Live in the land of the free. You will just need some orange paint for your muzzle
Learn French and live in France because they don't care
C) Learn some kind of German and go to Austria
D) Live a life in Poland, their limit is 5 Joule.

Or get used to one Joule and stay in ROI

o1s1n

NakedDex wrote: »

Problem is, this is a Star, not a Tanaka. The retailer just offered to fit the pcs as a service

No wonder I couldn't find it with google!

Are you talking about their new l96 with the folding stock?

davvowl

you talked about the tanaka pcs in your first post so i thought it was one ! i should have figured out when you said 350 fps with hfc gaz

tanaka's pcs welding can be done : just weld the adjusting wheel with the pcs frame. im not sure about the metal though, there could be aluminium parts (good luck welding that)

@harrykirsch : erm, what did you mean with "they don't care"

NakedDex

HarryHirsch wrote: »

There is a solution for the dilemma:

A) Live in the land of the free. You will just need some orange paint for your muzzle
Learn French and live in France because they don't care
C) Learn some kind of German and go to Ausria
D) Live a life in Poland, their limit is 5 Joule.

Or get used to one Joule and stay in ROI

A) It'd be a bit extreme to move to the US just for rifle.
I'm sure they do care, they have firearms laws too.
C) "some kind of German"? "Ausria"?
D) I don't personally want a 5joule limit.

I've been used to the 1j limit since it was written on paper and happily abide by it. I'm looking for a way to get that rifle to abide by the 1j limit which I'm happy to do.

o1s1n wrote: »

No wonder I couldn't find it with google!

Are you talking about their new l96 with the folding stock?

Full marks to Sherlock O1s1n for finding it. Though it's not an L96. It's close. In RS it's made by the same company, Accuracy International. It's the "Anti-material" version of the L96. In other words the tank-busting .50cal version. Hence you'll notice the length of that rifle is 1.3m!!!

kdouglas

ah come on Dex, post us some links

we want gun pron!!

NakedDex

What kdouglas wants, kdouglas gets.
http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airsoft/ProductDetail?prodID=23192


And davvowl, despite the fact that I know how to weld aluminium does NOT make me want to weld it anymore! It's a pain in the arse at the best of times.

o1s1n

NakedDex wrote: »

Full marks to Sherlock O1s1n for finding it. Though it's not an L96. It's close. In RS it's made by the same company, Accuracy International. It's the "Anti-material" version of the L96. In other words the tank-busting .50cal version. Hence you'll notice the length of that rifle is 1.3m!!!

Heh, I knew it was that as soon as you said Star. I remember someone directed me to a link of it when it came out first and I've wanted one ever since. The thing is absolutely gorgeous. I think I cried a bit when I heard it was gas powered

If you find some way of permanently downgrading it let me know!

kdouglas

very nice sir, very nice

zero19

NakedDex wrote: »

What kdouglas wants, kdouglas gets.
http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airsoft/ProductDetail?prodID=23192


And davvowl, despite the fact that I know how to weld aluminium does NOT make me want to weld it anymore! It's a pain in the arse at the best of times.

Niiiiiiiiiice

davvowl

maybe try superglue

want some gun pr0n ?

http://www.france-airsoft.fr/forum/index.php?showtopic=83007
heres the gun's review on the frenchy forum.
you might not understand anything since its french, however this guy made nice and detailed pictures.
enjoy

Gatling

nothing like a bit of late night gun porn
kdouglas

NakedDex

It will be mine, I will find a way. I HAVE to find a way. That was the first bolt action rifle I ever held a dozen years ago. I will never forget it. At the time, it was bigger than my sister.

HarryHirsch

I was just kidding... What I wanted to say is, that we all have to accept the 1 Joule. Think about the poor guys in the Netherlands. They are not allowed the have something that looks like a real gun, even it is a lighter. They have to smoke pot to forget it.;)

davvowl

i thought he just wanted 338 gun pr0n
if you're into airsoft minigun pr0n, have a look at this webby here

Gatling

Thats what you call kinky,
he just said gunporn didnt state 338-.50-40mm
its all good

zero19

Now what i want is a gas powered PSG-1, i'm an awful Metal Gear Solid fan

davvowl

get a psg1 and put one of those co2 gearboxes in it

NakedDex

davvowl wrote: »

maybe try superglue

want some gun pr0n ?

http://www.france-airsoft.fr/forum/index.php?showtopic=83007
heres the gun's review on the frenchy forum.
you might not understand anything since its french, however this guy made nice and detailed pictures.
enjoy

Damn you, now I want it even more. Is it wierd that this one picture makes me want the gun 10 times more than I did an hour ago?
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/9246/dsc06040hc0.jpg

davvowl

don't you think i want one too ?

someone delete this thread already, its bad for public health.

and sorry for posting explicit content

/me goes sleepy

zero19

davvowl wrote: »

get a psg1 and put one of those co2 gearboxes in it

Maybe if i win some decent money

Dr_Pepper

HarryHirsch wrote: »

I was just kidding... What I wanted to say is, that we all have to accept the 1 Joule.

Well he made it quite clear that he had accepted the 1joule limit and wanted to purchase it legally. So your input was useless.



Also... i want one too

bullets

Can you not go through the same procedure that people that own paint ball
markers go through? arent they well above the limit of 1j and considered
firearms?

If you want the rifle that much (I would love it too) one nasty solutions is
to actually licence it as a real firearm! it will cost 34 Euro a year to keep it though.
Problem solved. Use the valve system when skirmishing with it so its at a legal limit.

That brings up another issue. If its above the legal limit of 1j and you do want to licence it
it does not have a serial number like real steel and thats something that goes on the licence. They may not have enough info to fill in the licence and update pulse.

If you have a good relationship with the local Super that might issue your with a letter
of permission to possess one? Am not sure if thats what they do with paintball markers
as I have heard different stories about them. I hear you can have one with a letter of permission but not necessarily having a firearms license for one.
(I dont know how true that it though)

~B

kdouglas

Gatling wrote: »

nothing like a bit of late night gun porn
kdouglas

davvowl wrote: »

i thought he just wanted 338 gun pr0n
if you're into airsoft minigun pr0n, have a look at this webby here

all very nice, but incredibly off-topic lads

Cuddlesworth

They say they are willing to fit a tanaka power valve to regulate the power. Tanaka sell 2 types of valves, ones limited to under a joule and ones that can go over. Have you considered mailing them and asking could they import and fit one of the sub joule valves?

Rew

NakedDex wrote: »

Full marks to Sherlock O1s1n for finding it. Though it's not an L96. It's close. In RS it's made by the same company, Accuracy International. It's the "Anti-material" version of the L96. In other words the tank-busting .50cal version. Hence you'll notice the length of that rifle is 1.3m!!!

Tank busting?! .5 is effective against light armour not heavy tank armour. Its ment for going though engine blocks, walls, APC's etc. Sexy rifle alright, the Ranger Wing use the AI in .338 and .5. Friends of mine were shooting the .5 one at a target 1500 meters away!! :eek:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Arw_sniperwithaw50ki3.jpg

bullets

krazy_8s wrote: »

They say they are willing to fit a tanaka power valve to regulate the power. Tanaka sell 2 types of valves, ones limited to under a joule and ones that can go over. Have you considered mailing them and asking could they import and fit one of the sub joule valves?

I'd buy a Star AW-338 Sniper Rifle if they could make it legal.
One of the very rare times when I would be prepared to shell out the
big bucks.

I wonder if there is a few of use here willing to buy some they may agree to do it.

~B

Gatling

Rew ,the .50 standard round will stop light armour ,but switch to depleted uranium rounds, Tanks get killed with 1 shot as well any known armour,

zero19

I'm waiting for depleted uranium BB's...

nonex

Rew wrote: »

Tank busting?! .5 is effective against light armour not heavy tank armour. Its ment for going though engine blocks, walls, APC's etc. Sexy rifle alright, the Ranger Wing use the AI in .338 and .5. Friends of mine were shooting the .5 one at a target 1500 meters away!! :eek:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Arw_sniperwithaw50ki3.jpg

Tank busting? .50 is very effective against heavy tanks, it's were you put the shot;)

bullets

I sent redwolf in a query anyway saying that
anything over 1j is considered a firearm in Ireland and
was there a way that the power can be actually downgraded
instead of upgraded ?

ie Is there a way of shipping the product modified so it
fires at a fixed power Under 1 joule or just under 328fps ?

will let ye know when I get a response. Dunno if I would be comfortable
taking the chance though would much prefer to buy Irish as at least I would
know the thing made it into the country without issue.

Best regards,
Bryan.

Rew

Gatling wrote: »

Rew ,the .50 standard round will stop light armour ,but switch to depleted uranium rounds, Tanks get killed with 1 shot as well any known armour,

Sorry for continueing to drag this way OT but...

I reckon your mixing up 20mm/30mm cannon rounds that use depleted uranium penetrators with .5 (12.7mm) rounds. They dwarf .5 in size.

NakedDex

There are DU and Sabot rounds available in .50cal. Most commonly used by the US in the M82. As Nonex said though, it's about knowing where to hit. No point in firing at the prow of the hull and expecting it to penetrate, or at reactive armour. Exhaust ports are a favourite.

Bullets let me know what Redwolf say, I know WGC have that on their site too but I didn't think to email them.

bullets

NakedDex wrote: »

Bullets let me know what Redwolf say, I know WGC have that on their site too but I didn't think to email them.

Hi Guys,

Just got a reply from Redwolf Airsoft regarding downgrading I have it posted below.
What do people reckon? would it be safe to order? or would I be only asking for
trouble? It would be similar to places changing the spring on an aeg to
a sub 1j spring.

on a negative note they appear to be looking for 178 USD for shipping to Ireland!!!!!

~B

Reply starts now.........
The adjustment screw can be locked after it is set to under 1 Joules.

The problem is that if we adjust the model, the temperature may be different over there, and the various BBs and gases also have a slight effect on the velocity.

The adjustment does require tools and disassembly in any case, so I'm quite sure the rifle would pass the customs just fine. We always set the adjustment below 1J by default before shipping out.

When it comes to that... There really is no permanent way to absolutely keep any airsoft gun down below limits, because there is always a way to bypass the restrictions.


Thank you for your interest in RedWolf Airsoft. Please let me know if I can be of further assistance.

kdouglas

bullets wrote:

The adjustment does require tools and disassembly

as does the changing of a spring in an aeg to one that is over 1 Joule, so it would be a similar level of work required to modify

if they set it to 1 Joule in hong kong where it's currently a pleasant
21 degrees celsius, then that's gonna be about 1 Joule in summer over here, in winter you'll get a bit less

bullets

Had the thing in the shopping cart and was nearly gonna hit buy!
but then I saw 178.34 USD shipping from Hong Kong to Ireland with
no other options to pick from. I dont think I could stomach paying
that much for shipping.

645 for the rifle
55 for the special valve
178.34 for shipping

Total of USD $878.34 or 599.61 Euro!
Add another 100 Euro if theres customs.

~B

kdouglas

redwolf are expensive for shipping alright, but if you order today you'd have it monday, so you get what you pay for

NakedDex

bullets wrote: »

Total of USD $878.34 or 599.61 Euro!
Add another 100 Euro if theres customs.

~B

Bargain. I will pay it! As soon as I get a new job to pay off enough of the credit card to be able to get it.