LateLate e-mail reply

bradnailer

Got this reply from latelate show today, in relation to the Extra Person shot in the Halifax comp

Many thanks for your comments. The Judges were aware that many entries had been Photoshopped, some more than others, but had no problem with that, as long as the basic image was not radically altered. The head of the judging panel is an award-winning professional photographer, and he felt that the level of retouching on this particular image would be acceptable at competition level anywhere.

Many thanks for getting in touch; we always welcome feedback, positive or negative, from viewers. I’ll pass on your comments to the judges in the meantime.

Kind regards,

*******
Producer
The Late Late Show

kensutz

What a joke of a reply. They're just digging a bigger hole for themselves.

elven

What happened there like? I missed this...

kensutz

The "Extra Person" photo is horribly chopped to pieces and yet the "expert" allowed it into the competition and the entrant won €1000 for it.

Calina

I have some doubts about a) whether it would be acceptable everywhere and b) just how bad the image post processing was anyway. I mean, I have shelved projects that were better than that.

Alun

I agree, that's scandalous. I'd have been ashamed to enter anything as badly photoshopped as that.

rymus

says more about the expert and the importance placed on attention to detail than anything tbh

Contrary to what the 'expert' says, I'd have no doubt at all that it'd be completely unacceptable everywhere.. If you went into your local camera club with a print of that you'd be laughed out of it. If you entered an actual competition (i.e. not a publicity stunt) you'd give all the judges a well needed laugh.

Is this the new standard of amateur photography in Ireland? Hopefully not; Hopefully this is just a case of someone that went way over the top with photoshop without actually learning to use photoshop beforehand... Hopefully...

shepthedog

Are these photos available online anywhere? Still have yet to see them

helios

rymus wrote: »

says more about the expert and the importance placed on attention to detail than anything tbh

Contrary to what the 'expert' says, I'd have no doubt at all that it'd be completely unacceptable everywhere.. If you went into your local camera club with a print of that you'd be laughed out of it. If you entered an actual competition (i.e. not a publicity stunt) you'd give all the judges a well needed laugh.

Is this the new standard of amateur photography in Ireland? Hopefully not; Hopefully this is just a case of someone that went way over the top with photoshop without actually learning to use photoshop beforehand... Hopefully...

Here here. It's like the Olympics passing a blind eye on dopping. I'd say that removing an entire person and editing the actual subject is considered to be radically altering the pic.

Calina

IIRC, the Red Bull Illume Image quest thing that I entered (naively) last year did not permit digital processing beyond cropping. I'd be willing to bet that the currently running Sony competition did not either.

But even if it were allowed, there's still the issue that it was comparatively poor work.

shepthedog

answering my own questions, they are all here

http://www.halifax.ie/index.jsp?1nID=94&2nID=276&3nID=285&4nID=276&pID=285&nID=591

Some of those pictures are absolute rubbish.. Wow.. Totally unrelated to adding extra to your life.. Cack..

Owen

Christ, if I was Ted Keane who took that Extra Person photo, I'd be embarassed and ashamed. If I was the Judge of this competition, I'd probably have to take a good long look in the mirror. That's some of the worst, blatant photoshopping I've ever seen.

Calina

helios wrote: »

Here here. It's like the Olympics passing a blind eye on dopping. I'd say that removing an entire person and editing the actual subject is considered to be radically altering the pic.

Do we know what exactly was done? To my mind, something was cloned out on the right hand side, and the main subject of the photograph was airlifted in from some other photograph, as evidenced by a) the difference in noise quality between the girl and the rest of the shot and b) items being missing from the reflection?

To me it's not a photograph any more, it's a piece of digital artwork.

Culann

ned78 wrote: »

Christ, if I was Ted Keane who took that Extra Person photo, I'd be embarassed and ashamed.

He's more likely to be laughing all the way to the bank. The more I look at it the worse it gets. I can't believe they'd be happy putting that in a calendar.

Paulw

They have got to be kidding. That "photo" is a joke.

shepthedog

What the hell is going on with the right hand side of the pic??? He foot is totally blurred.. Also whats the black stuff on the top part of the photo.. What a strange photo to win a competition. I would imagine with 5000 images they could have been more selective.. The quality of stuff I see people posting on here for c & c beats nearly every one of the photos that won.. Bizarre..

Paulw

I just decided to write to the Late Late and voice my disgust at their choice to allow this photo.

Maybe everyone here should do similar.

Carrigman

What a farce! "The head of the judging panel is an award-winning professional photographer, and he felt that the level of retouching on this particular image would be acceptable at competition level anywhere". If he really thinks so he is *seriously* out of touch with competition standard photography.

Pat Kenny said that the "creative team" of Halifax were involved in judging the entries. Who are they exactly? The office boy and the cleaning lady I suspect.

It reminds me of an annual photo competition hosted by a long defunct camera shop in Cork back in the day. The winning entries were, er, strange to say the least. Many years later I learned that the proprietor of the shop was also very involved with the Boy Scouts. He used to bring the entries to the local scout hall and used the young lads to decide the winners. I seriously think that something similar was done here.

georgey

That extra person shot is awfull I could do a better copy and paste job than this, a lot of these winners are very poor in terms of composition content and quality, why am I not surprised????

CraggyIslander

Carrigman wrote: »

I seriously think that something similar was done here.

You mean pat kenny got to pick em?

Padraig Mor

Holy crap! That is one ****ty piece of photoshopping!

thebaz

i was begining to think that there might be some sore losers , then i looked at the image -- maybe theres something about the photographer we don't know -- if everything is ok and normal -- i wonder what c & c oriel would give on it here ?

its not only the photoshopping, the image is so weak

ladgie353

Quick note on this, the image wasn't photoshopped, I met the author at a camera club meeting.
It was taken in Bordeaux, on the "Miroir d'eau", a square covered by a thin film of water. People go there in summer to cool down.

Covey

I agree with most said on here, but as Baz says it could be seen as sour grapes by some.

So how about having our alternate Late Late and post the image summitted (must be those from late late only) on here and we chose OUR best. Winners also welcome.

Lets see if they are really better!;)

T.

Owen

ladgie353 wrote: »

Quick note on this, the image wasn't photoshopped, I met the author at a camera club meeting.
It was taken in Bordeaux, on the "Miroir d'eau", a square covered by a thin film of water. People go there in summer to cool down.

It most certainly is photoshopped. We're not talking about the mirror image of the person here, we're talking about the horrific job done cloning something out of the right hand side of the image.

Muineach

i've taken a look at the photo in question and in my opinion it has been photoshopped, badly, I'd show examples but I'm not sure what the legal requirements would be.
Here's my partial list so far

• follow the line of the pool, it has been cloned/pasted, zoom to 100% to really see it, the top one is really bad
• top right corner, cloned a bush on the beach and blurred it a bit
• top left corner, background changed, with the same pattern and blurred a bit when it comes into the beach
• I won't even mention the girl

I have no problem with people using the clone tool etc., but to do it so badly (in my opinion) and it to be selected, I can't imagine that they could print that in a calender. It would be a lot more visible on an 8x12 print.
Anyway maybe they chose based on thumbnails ? :eek:

I had a look at the settings on the photo:
Canon 5D
shutter : 1/8000
iso : 1,000
f : 6.7

and from the file info:
2007-06-28T13:46:25+01:00 File _mg_1136.cr2 opened
2007-06-28T14:08:25+01:00 File L:\gigavu 07\aix en provence\_mg_1136 copy.tga saved
2007-06-28T16:38:12+01:00 File L:\gigavu 07\last pics\girl reflection.jpg saved
2007-06-28T16:44:28+01:00 File L:\gigavu 07\last pics\girl reflection.jpg saved

All that available in the photo btw.

DaireQuinlan

lordy yeah, just checked out the full size version of that picture. Everything from the appalling feathering on both legs of the girl lying down, and on the head of the girl taking the photograph, to the dreadful, and only half finished job of trying to clone in the edge of the fountain. And WTH happened to the sky ??!??!?!?!? I'm no great shakes at PS myself, but I don't think I'd even enter something like this into a competition for fear of being laughed out of it...

-edit- OTOH, that picture of the spire is astonishing ! I actually get vertigo looking at it ... -edit-

thebaz

maybe i'll bring it back to music again -- i love music -- anything good --- but most stuff that wins eurovisions , gets to no. 1 etc etc .... is usually pretty plastic ... the Cowell/Walsh generation has replaced Elvis , Beatles , who used to scoop the rewards ..... i'd love to have won , but for good images its hard to beat Sunday Times magazine

but most of the images that did win were very good /excellent (including our own third ) ... that one is an exception that stands out poorly

ladgie353

ned78 wrote: »

It most certainly is photoshopped. We're not talking about the mirror image of the person here, we're talking about the horrific job done cloning something out of the right hand side of the image.

Oh, I stand corrected, just opened the full-size image.

Potential-Monke

My god, i know sfa about photography, but i knew something didn't seem right about the photo on the late late show. Now i see the picture properly, and that has to be the worst picture i've ever seen... Blatently terrible attempt at a "photo"

Muineach

just another thing

hmm you should take a look at the hurler (100% on the head), no PS'd

and the last one, kids walking down the forest, its "full" size is 400px, this may be a web issue but.. from the faq

Email Entry: Your entered image must be:
Minimum size of 1500 pixels on the longest edge at 72 dpi
Maximum size of 3000 pixels pixels on the longest edge at 72 dpi

to me it seems as if they selected them based on a lower resolution ? just an idea

RoryW

for those who didnt check out the picture

Muineach

i wonder what the expert thought of this for "sharpness"
G7 44mm, to me looks like a cropped photo and then resized back up to the min spec ?
imagine if someone posted these for C&C on the boards ?
I'm stopping now :rolleyes:

pete4130

Maybe its Halifax that should be getting the emails and not the late late show....the images are pretty darn useless.

magicbastarder

i think people are taking this a bit too much to heart...

TelePaul

That's bollox.

ike

Rory thanks for putting the PIC in the post, saves me jumping back and forth just to see just how bad it is!!

The photoshopping is just sooo bad whatever was cloned out was very large just look at the girls calf of the leg on the water right up to the kerbing looks like somebody was cloned out, and the girl in the distance to me looks like she is focussing on whatever was originally there!

I don't think we're making too much of this and i have no doubt if we were all blown away by the images we would be discussing this with as much enthusiasm! In my opinion a panel of professional photographer's would not have accepted this.

Maybe the fact the so much 'extra' touching up was done may have qualified it?

rymus

I reckon Jabba the Hut must have been sunbathing there. It's the only thing that could account for such a large area of photoshop sillyness.

Muineach

in my opinion, looking at her feet it seems that she was added in as well, the feet being missing bits looks like a bad layer mask used as her full feet is in the reflection

ike

rymus wrote: »

I reckon Jabba the Hut must have been sunbathing there. It's the only thing that could account for such a large area of photoshop sillyness.

ROTFLOL

Muineach

but then we shoulda gotten a gold bikini

PaulieC

Don't shoot me, but I don't think it's as bad as some are making out. It looks to me that there were people around the edge of the pool to the left of the girl with the camera and it is these people, along with their reflections that are cloned out, hence the rather large area of 'clonliness'.
I can't actually see anything too wrong with the reflection of the girl, apart from the line running through her foot, but that just looks like a ripple in the water.

Please feel free to ridicule my photoshop detecting skills

Fajitas!

magicbastarder wrote: »

i think people are taking this a bit too much to heart...

Indeed.

TelePaul

Fajitas! wrote: »

Indeed.

Well aren't we talking a grand here?

It's just an awkward awkward photo.

Fionn

obviously the judge(s) didn't look too closely
that girl reflection is terrible - i'm wondering would the clasp on her top be actually seen in a real reflection? seems to me the angle should prevent it.
anyway good detective work by all the pixel peepers (myself included)

rymus

I hereby propose a new competition; The finest attempt at repairing the botched photoshop pseudo-photo phacelift will win (wait for it)....



...a prize!

copacetic

TelePaul wrote: »

Well aren't we talking a grand here?

It's just an awkward awkward photo.

yep, but wasn't it a Halifax competition? If they are paying the money, they can pick whoever the feck they want as a winner?

TelePaul

copacetic wrote: »

yep, but wasn't it a Halifax competition? If they are paying the money, they can pick whoever the feck they want as a winner?

Yeah, but why bother asking for submissions? It's encouraging a self-belief that shouldn't really exist in the first place, lets be honest. I'd be majorly pissed off if my photo was beaten by that. I don't really consider it photography to be honest.

deRanged

I quite liked the photo when I saw it on the Late Late.
it wasn't till I got a good look at the full-size version linked here that I saw any photoshop work. Given that that's the only way that most people will ever see it (I mean in low res) I'd say it's fine. I still like it.

Calina

In some respects, you could say it's a Halifax competition and they can pick who they like. But when you have a major, major competition like that, you like to think that actual quality will play a part. There are a lot of issues with the photograph under discussion some of which have been listed and some of which have not. I have no great wish to dissect the picture beyond two things:

1) it is very clearly photoshopped to an extent that I have grave doubts that the scene it reflects per se actually really existed in that form. I think the girl was dropped in from outside and other items were cloned out. It is not a photograph in my view, just a piece of art made up of photographs.

2) the quality of the post processing is abysmal. I mean I spent two hours one evening painstaking cloning the sea into a stop action and it was better than that and I still tossed it and started over because it wasn't good enough. If you can see the cloning, then it is just not good enough quality work.

I have no axe to grind, no sour grapes. I didn't enter the competition because I am up to my eyes with other stuff at the moment and although 10K sounds nice, I wasn't sure they'd be too interested in me anyway.

I do want to feel that a competition of that calibre of prizes has photographs of that calibre winning said prizes. In that respect, I must confess that I am disappointed by the outcome. I know it's for a calendar and that the remit for said shots might vary. But on a year to year basis I see the calendars from several other banks and from RTE which uses a lot of the weather comp photos and also from Fingal CoCo and frankly, comparatively, the pictures selected for the Halifax calendar leave a lot to be desired. And I find it difficult to believe they were, in fact, the twelve best.

magicbastarder

the way i read it, they probably deliberately chose photos which looked like anyone could take them; they probably want entries from joe soap, because competitions rewarding minute long exposures of waves washing over rocks only attract a (relatively) small base of entrants. they wanted it to be populist, to attract wider attention than say the ESB awards do.