1 weights session per week.

Hail 2 Da Chimp

Hey all,
I have been getting on great with the gym sessions but recently I've started back with a MMA club, so I'd like some advice on how to go about hitting all the major muscle groups with 1 weight session a week.
Is this possible?
As it stands I will be training in MMA 3 times a week alternating between 2 Muai Thai classes and 1 BJJ and 2 BJJ 1 M.T.
As it stands I'd like to keep up with the benching, squatting, shoulder press and pull ups as I have made some great progress with these.
Also If I get some time during the week I may hit the guns (biceps & Triceps) or shoulders again but usually I'm too sore from the M.T.
So any advice appreciated.

t-ha

Hey Chimp,

I know I find it very difficult to put on muscle when doing tough MMA training. The best advice I can give is that your diet needs to be excellent - particularly around your MA classes. I.e. even if you can't eat a solid meal in the run up to training, try and have a protein shake or some BCAA's at least & have something prepared you can neck down straight after training. I found that the period I have to go without eating before training + the training itself + waiting to get home to eat makes building muscle very difficult.

Also, regarding the training itself - I'd say do all the exercises you want to do every time you go to the gym, but do less sets of them. I.e. do the same total amount of weights each week, but split it up so you're never going too hard on one muscle group any particular day - that way it won't interfere with your MA training too much. Depending on what kind of gym training you're doing this can be an effective way to manage both.

Hail 2 Da Chimp

I'm actually (for once) in a good situation where I can have a decent breakfast, lunch and dinner before MMA with a protein shake after, as I live practically beside the club.
For example here is what I was thinking of doing.
3 X squat.
3 X Bench.
3 X Pull ups.
3 X shoulders.
3 X Deadlift. (will be light enough as heaviest weights we have are 2 X 30kg dumbells).
Crunches and Biceps to finish off (I think they're enough tricep training there and through out the week)
From my point of view 1 benching set per week isn't exactly going to promote great strenght / size gains...

Also as a point I find any break in weights sessions and I seem to lose weight very fast.

Cheers for the input t-ha!

Colm_OReilly

It was looking so nice until you mentioned bicep curls! Please ditch them!

If you're out in rathcoole get a bit of dipping going on after a class.

TKD SC

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

It was looking so nice until you mentioned bicep curls! Please ditch them!

If you're out in rathcoole get a bit of dipping going on after a class.

Hey man,

Why are bicep curls so bad?! I don't actually do them anymore as do pull ups (per cross fit workouts) now, but did used to do them alot. What else would someone do for biceps if they didnt have access to a pull up / chinup bar?

Enjoy the bank hol!

Simon

Hanley

Bicep curls are bad because they keep the muscles balanced and prevent elbow pain.

Dragan

Hanley wrote: »

Bicep curls are bad because they keep the muscles balanced and prevent elbow pain.

*chuckles* I'm with Hanley to be honest.....a muscle is a muscle and an imbalance anywhere can lead to injuries and pain.

Tigger

Hanley wrote: »

Bicep curls are bad because they keep the muscles balanced and prevent elbow pain.

?????

Hanley

rbd wrote: »

?????

Alot more people have jumped onto the "isolation is bad" band wagon recently without giving full thought to the consequences.

They think compound movements (presumably close grip chin ups) can build your biceps more effectively than isolated curls and the likes. I don't agree with that, look at bodybuilders, but that's a whole different kettle of fish.

My argument is that if I ignore bicep training (even 2-3 exercises a week, 1 per day) my elbows start to act up because of the imbalance that occurs. People wouldn't bench press without doing at least attempting to get some rowing movements in to maintain the balance, but people reguraly say not to bother with bicep curls even tho the triceps get a tremendous over load while benching and military press. Strong triceps + weak untrained biceps = elbow injury.

Dragan

On top of what Hanley has said people also seem to foget the importance of tendon and ligament strength.

Nothing adds to those for biceps like a nice heavy direct load. Ignore your biceps for long enough, try and pull a nice heavy deadlift and see what you get.

rubadub

I dont do them since I think my time is better spent on other exercises. I am not a serious lifter at all, and do short sessions and want to use my time as efficiently as possible. My biceps are worked on my other exercises.

I think some over emphasis not doing them as many beginners might tend to overtrain them by doing them all the time. It is a simple exercise- a "cartoon" exercise - as in mention lifting to a nonlifter and they will think of curls. Ask a kid or anybody to pretend to be a weightlifter/bobybuilder, and 9/10 will stand their doing curls with an imaginary bar.

My brother was lifting long before me- not seriously though, he was asking me why I had so many plates, saying surely you could not lift more than 50kg, as though curls were about the only exercise there was, I said I was deadlifting 100kg and he says "WTF is a deadlift". I have found the same with a few mates too, who only do curls, lateral raises, and military presses.

Colm_OReilly

One could argue just as equally that training in a segmented capacity using single joint/ROM exercises can lead to imbalances and a segmented ability.

I didn't do single joint exercises even before Xfit, I was benching, rowing, pull ups and dips mainly.

I've never felt the need to hit my biceps (or actually any other body part) - I'm doing pulling motions pretty much every day, as I'm doing pushing motions. Rowing, Sumo Deadlift High Pulls, pull ups, muscle ups, the actions involved in the clean and snatch as you pull yourself underneath the bar all work the biceps.

It's been my experience/observation, and that of the CF community at large, that those who train exclusively in compound movements would be better at single joint movements than those who train in purely segmented single joint movements.

Now, I understand Hanley that you are using single joint movements as supplementary exercises, and they have worked for you. I would argue that the majority of people exercising do not have the regimen or dedication (or indeed time and commitment you do) and as such have no need for supplementary exercises to compete at power lifting events. As such we need to prescribe a program that will deliver the greatest benefit with the least amount of exercise.

Thanks,
Colm

Tigger

Hanley wrote: »

Alot more people have jumped onto the "isolation is bad" band wagon recently without giving full thought to the consequences.

They think compound movements (presumably close grip chin ups) can build your biceps more effectively than isolated curls and the likes. I don't agree with that, look at bodybuilders, but that's a whole different kettle of fish.

My argument is that if I ignore bicep training (even 2-3 exercises a week, 1 per day) my elbows start to act up because of the imbalance that occurs. People wouldn't bench press without doing at least attempting to get some rowing movements in to maintain the balance, but people reguraly say not to bother with bicep curls even tho the triceps get a tremendous over load while benching and military press. Strong triceps + weak untrained biceps = elbow injury.

thats what i would have thought

Hail 2 Da Chimp

Hanley wrote: »

Strong triceps + weak untrained biceps = elbow injury.

I didn't actually realise this, I recently begun to add in a few curls as I found I was training my tri's a hell of a lot more than I was training my biceps. Especally now with the M.T. Although I try to train my arms as little as possible I'd rather focus on my chest, back and shoulders...

Colm not in Rathcoole. Training in Maynooth.

Has anyone had any problems training their legs and then doing any MA, I'm a bit worried about this as I get very bad DOMS when I squat / deadlift.

brianthebard

Are you in NUIM? How are you finding the gym there?

Hail 2 Da Chimp

I'm not actually in NUIM. Haven't used their gym, had a walk through it and it seems pretty impressive though.

t-ha

Hail 2 Da Chimp wrote: »

Has anyone had any problems training their legs and then doing any MA, I'm a bit worried about this as I get very bad DOMS when I squat / deadlift.

That's kind of what I meant - instead of squatting until you find it hard to walk anymore - just put good effort into a couple of sets and then go work something else so the DOMS in your legs don't get too bad. Work your legs again next time you're in the gym and you won't be missing out on anything.

If you still get DOMS then just warm yourself up well before MMA training & suck it up.

BobbyOLeary

As such we need to prescribe a program that will deliver the greatest benefit with the least amount of exercise.

That made me smile. Least amount of exercise? Its not exactly how I'd have thought of XFit. If by amount of exercise you mean the time length of the workout, then yes, XFit does deliver this. If you measure the amount of exercise by the work done, then I'd say that XFit requires more work per session than normal programs (that I've been exposed to) but delivers more results per session. So to achieve a fitness of X will require less crossfit sessions than normal workout sessions but will need a higher workload per session. Don't mind me, it was just something that struck me there.

Apologies to the OP, that was a bit off topic.

The Shane

Bicep curls or any other isolation exercises have their place. In my opinion, this place is physio and other recovery work. In terms of sporting improvement they have no place.

A properly structured workout program, even one that is not crossfit should have enough varied (useful) exercises to maintain a balance.

In relation to the OP's chosen sport of MMA the bicep curl is next to useless. Any movement that requires the bicep to contract is not an isolation movement, it works generally in conjunction with a contract of the lats and is more than likely co-ordinated with some action about the hips. Take the example of the underhook in the clinch - this is primarily a lat contraction the bicep work is minimal. Take the example of the cross face (shoulder of justice) while in side control - mainly the lat and hip/weight positioning. I'm not advocating having weak arms, far from it. I am advocating ignoring exercises that bring little to the table. A pull up/chin up/sumo high pull/rowing all bring with them a need to develop co-ordination, strength through the core and stronger arms.

From a bodybuilder point of view, a bicep curl may well be the most effective way to build the biceps over a short period of time, but size without function is the least useful thing in a sport. Especially a weight dependant sport such as MMA.

Who is coaching in Maynooth? Where is BJJ going on?

The power clean is probably the best single exercise you could do, if you are limited for time. Go to the Crossfit Open day and get someone to show you.

Shane, The

Hanley

I would agree with all but the last point.

There's no point powercleaning if you're weak. They're not going to develop the same strength heavy squatting and deadliting will, and I believe that unless you have a sufficent strength level to convert to "power" then you'd be better just getting plain stronger.

Dragan

ack

The Shane

My belief on the power clean is based on the opinions of Mark Rippetoe, author of the book Starting Strength (probably the best strength training manual out there). The basic reason being that fast/explosive strength translates down to slow strength far better than slow strength translates up to fast/explosive strength. This as I am led to believe is one of the tenets of the Westside Barbell club.

Hanley, for a beginner then any given exercise will induce an improvement. But if someone who had a strength base was tight on time and knew the movement then I would recommend the Power Clean. I don't mean to suggest that the first or only thing a beginner should do is power clean. The main reason I like Crossfit is the variety.

Shane, The

Hanley

The Shane wrote: »

My belief on the power clean is based on the opinions of Mark Rippetoe, author of the book Starting Strength (probably the best strength training manual out there). The basic reason being that fast/explosive strength translates down to slow strength far better than slow strength translates up to fast/explosive strength. This as I am led to believe is one of the tenets of the Westside Barbell club.

True enough on Westside, but one of the over riding beliefs there is it's pointless doing dynamic work if you're weak. Which is basically what I'm arguing on the power clean front!!

My basic thought would be that if you can get someone brutally strong on squats and deadlifts, it will then be easier to increase their power output via powercleans and the likes.

This is really based off personal opinion. Recently I equalled my powerclean PR (105kg) having not done them in about 6 months, I did it on the first session back, so form was still way off. I figrued the only reason this happened is because my squat, deadlift and power shrug were all up.

Hanley, for a beginner then any given exercise will induce an improvement. But if someone who had a strength base was tight on time and knew the movement then I would recommend the Power Clean. I don't mean to suggest that the first or only thing a beginner should do is power clean. The main reason I like Crossfit is the variety.

I read it as "the powerclean is the best exercise to use". I would certainly agree for someone like myself if I was training for sports because an increase in power would certainly help me on the field more than extra strength. BUT I still think there's llifts that'll do more in a shorter time for a beginner.

Shane, The[/QUOTE]