"Learner permit" - changes for provisional bikers

Tellox

Since this hasnt been covered yet, here's the new laws to affect provisional bikers;

• Learner Motorcyclist to display L plates on a high visibility tabard.
takes effect as and from 1 December 2007.

All persons with a learner permit (provisional licence) for category A, A1, or M, must when driving such a vehicle display a yellow fluorescent tabard bearing the letter ‘L’ not less than 15 centimetres high in red on a white ground, in clearly visible vertical positions worn over the chest clothing. The ‘L’ plates are to be to the front and rear of the person’s torso. It will be a penal offence not to so display L plates.

• The carrying of a passenger by a motorcyclist with a (provisional licence) learner permit is a penal offence.

This change will apply as and from 30 October 2007.

Q: Can I carry a passenger on a category A motorcycle for which I hold a learner permit/ provisional licence if I have a full driving licence for category A1?
A: No.

Q: If I pass the motorcycle driving test, can I carry a passenger?
A: No, you must first exchange your certificate of competency (driving test pass certificate) for a full driving licence to be able to carry a passenger.



• A person who is a first time holder of a learner permit (provisional licence) cannot take a driving test for a six month period after the commencement date of the permit (provisional licence).




And that's about that.
I've my full coming up next month (fingers crossed),so hopefully I shouldnt be hit too hard.

We already know that pillions on a provo is a no-no, but rarely was action ever taken against anyone. Looks like something will be done now.

Bit unfair about the last point - if someone feels confident enough, why not allow them to take the full test?

And about the L plates? Pass or Fail, not a hope in hell

Wossack

waiting 6 months for my test - still no sign

nice 5 days notice though, hate this fcuking country.

LegacyUser

fcuk that. ill stick to my normal hi-viz vest thanks very much.anyone know how many penalty points its going to be??

Tree

a million!
tbh, the only thing ive ever seen bikes stopped for near me is nonstandard number plates. noone gets stopped for licenses.

KTRIC

You all think cagers give you sh!t now, wearing this vest thing is going to be like wearing a bullseye target.

Blitzkrieger

Rofl - I think it's be sexay!

Hotblack Desiato

KTRIC wrote: »

You all think cagers give you sh!t now, wearing this vest thing is going to be like wearing a bullseye target.

MAG Ireland told them the vest idea was daft, but weren't listened to... :rolleyes: L-plates on the bikes themselves would have been fine.

Where are these yokes going to be available? Will they be free? Will existing provisional licence holders have to wear them or just new riders? Do the Department of Transport even know?

seamus

KTRIC wrote: »

You all think cagers give you sh!t now, wearing this vest thing is going to be like wearing a bullseye target.

Yeah, jesus christ, that's going to be no fun.

I've immediately spotted a grey area with the L plate legislation. It requires that a highly visible L be worn on the front and back of the torso. What if the driver is wearing a backpack? They're wearing the L plate on the torso, but it's no longer highly visible

I can see a rash of bikers wearing backpacks now just to cover the plate on their back...

Blitzkrieger

I can't imagine ever seeing one biker wearing it that isn't doing their test. TBH, I'd feel safer without a helmet than I'd feel wearing one of those.

Steffano2002

I'm glad I applied for my Full License before even getting my Provisional! Hateful new legislation this IMO...

Whyner

I applied for my test yesterday and I haven't even been up on my bike yet. So if I get my test within the next 6 months I can still do it?

Does the "wait 6 months" only come into affect on October 30th?

robinph

Tellox wrote: »

All persons with a learner permit (provisional licence) for category A, A1, or M, must when driving such a vehicle display a yellow fluorescent tabard bearing the letter ‘L’ not less than 15 centimetres high in red on a white ground, in clearly visible vertical positions worn over the chest clothing. The ‘L’ plates are to be to the front and rear of the person’s torso. It will be a penal offence not to so display L plates.

LOL

That is never going to happen.

Hotblack Desiato

What is a penal offence? I thought Daniel O'Connell got the Penal Laws abolished?

faceman

robinph wrote: »

LOL

That is never going to happen.

they do something similar in the UK and NI and if its policed properly learners wont have much choice. Im all for it tbh. Its the spacers on their mopeds id be laughin at! Some of them cant even tie their helmuts properly (and give the rest of us a bad name)

Hotblack Desiato

faceman wrote: »

they do something similar in the UK and NI and if its policed properly learners wont have much choice.

??? Unless things have changed very recently, they only require an L-plate on the bike (same size as car one) in the UK.

Also, if they get away with making learners wear hi-vis clothing, it's only a matter of time before they try to make everyone wear it.

mikemac

Wossack wrote: »

waiting 6 months for my test - still no sign

nice 5 days notice though, hate this fcuking country.

I got mine in 5 weeks-Raheny, North Dublin
Most get their test date within two months

Wossack

micmclo wrote: »

I got mine in 5 weeks-Raheny, North Dublin
Most get their test date within two months

Thats great to hear.

robinph

ninja900 wrote: »

??? Unless things have changed very recently, they only require an L-plate on the bike (same size as car one) in the UK.

Yeah, it's just to have the same 'L' on the back of the bike not the person.

Keith186

Wossack wrote: »

Thats great to hear.

I didn't get mine within two months.

Anyone know where the hell you can get a high vis vest with an L sticker?

I might try some of the hen parties in temple bar tonight!:)

This whole crap should really be called off, they should give one year's notice on major changes.

I can't drive my car from Tuesday, waiiting ages for a test and now I have to look like a dick driving on my bike!

Two fingers to RSA the shower of incompetent arseholes:(

Phew, now I am so glad I passed my test last August. I wonder will anybody actually bother wearing those gammy looking high vis vest thingies?

dogpile

Tree wrote: »

a million!
tbh, the only thing ive ever seen bikes stopped for near me is nonstandard number plates. noone gets stopped for licenses.

They'll go to town on it the first few weeks IMO...I really don't see the point in it! are they saying you'll be safer with a big L on display?? or are they just trying to turn the fashion conscious off biking

Dub13

Steffano2002 wrote: »

I'm glad I applied for my Full License before even getting my Provisional! Hateful new legislation this IMO...

LOL....I was not aware you could do that.

faceman

Dub13 wrote: »

LOL....I was not aware you could do that.

you must hold a valid provisional license or permit to sit the test tho.

highlydebased

Goddamnit. I was planning on getting my first car soon, but with the new rules I said "I'll get a bike instead! No driver accompanyment rule or L Plates"

It wouldnt be surpised if they insist you carry a full-licensed driver as a pillion passenger next

Idleater

Deleted User wrote: »

Phew, now I am so glad I passed my test last August. I wonder will anybody actually bother wearing those gammy looking high vis vest thingies?

lol! I wear mine all the time, regardless, and I still have muppets drive out saying "SMIDSY".


Tellox, good luck with the test.
Get a normal and a pretest lesson and you will be sorted.

gipi

I reckon there are a few reasons why bikers don't like the idea of wearing the L-plate hi-vis tabard....

It will clash with the replica racing leathers!
It won't fit over the backpack unless you buy "small bear" size tabard!
C*ge drivers (as an earlier poster said) have a new target to aim for.

....and the most important (in my opinion)....

It allows the Garda to easily identify those learner bikers who are riding non-legal bikes (over the bhp or p/w ratio)!!

I'm a learner biker myself so will watch the roads closely on 1st December (and start a company producing hi-vis L-plate tabards right now!!)

Keith186

Neon-Circles wrote: »

It wouldnt be surpised if they insist you carry a full-licensed driver as a pillion passenger next

If you read the new rules of the road there's a bit at the start about must and must not being highlighted to show extra importance and the law etc.

The part about bikes states

"You must not carry a pillion passenger"

If you were reading it quickly and were pretty stupid you could actually think you have to carry a passenger!

There's a good few examples where they've messed up with must and must not. Looks like they didn't even proof read it like they didn't bother even notifying the Gardai that the new rules were coming into place until same day it was announced in public. Idiots...

Bernard Hopkins

neigh a hope in hell ,.......

watch towards the end of financial quarter's,. there will be a heap of fines being slung about.

major lack of street cred wearing :

Bernard Hopkins

"The Minister understands that the Gardaí will approach each case, using discretion and common sense as opposed to automatic prosecution."

LOL ........ LOL ,..... obviously never had to deal with the ego's of the power weilding traffic police !!

If you dont get on your hands and knees , you can be sure the gardai will rinse you out if you get pulled over !!
the slightest bit of dis-respect and you'll have the gardai scrutineering any possible angle to prosecute you. !!

DonkeyRhubarb

Im getting my first bike soon. Have my theory test mid november.

I have a full car licence and was relieved to have it when I heard about the new prov rules. Now I cant believe its for bikes as well!!!

I didnt like having an 'L' on my car, but I put up with it. Theres no way in HELL an I WEARING flippin plates on my person!

I was more or less ready to take my car test after 2 weeks of driving. Why the hell should I have to wait 6 months??? Even if I have to wait 6 months, they cant provide tests for about a year!!!

How dare they introduce laws like this without taking care of backlog problems first. Its a mess if you ask me. A publicity scam that will completly backfire!!!

<end rant>

Kat1170

It doesn't matter how bright a Hi-Vis vest is, you could paint your whole bike bright pink. If the Ba$tard$ don't look:eek::eek: they STILL won't see you.:rolleyes::mad:

faceman

Kat1170 wrote: »

It doesn't matter how bright a Hi-Vis vest is, you could paint your whole bike bright pink. If the Ba$tard$ don't look:eek::eek: they STILL won't see you.:rolleyes::mad:

yeah but its about trying to make yourself as visible as possible.

MrPudding

DonkeyRhubarb wrote: »

Why the hell should I have to wait 6 months???

Because not everyone is as amazing as you and is not capable of passing a test so quickly, so you have people applying for a test immediately, not being up to the standard and either failing a test they had no chance of passing or not showing up and wasting a slot. Either way slowing down the system for others that are ready to sit the test.

The problem is, it is hard to know who is fit for a test before 6 months and who isn't, therefore they need to do a blanket rule where no one can sit a test within 6 months.

MrP

faceman

DonkeyRhubarb wrote: »

I didnt like having an 'L' on my car, but I put up with it. Theres no way in HELL an I WEARING flippin plates on my person!

I was more or less ready to take my car test after 2 weeks of driving. Why the hell should I have to wait 6 months???

jaysus, your attitude to driving is quite frightening. The standard of driving (in general) in ireland is poor, for both cars and bikes. Some form of mandatory training is badly needed for bikers. Doing lessons to pass your test, doesnt always teach your what you need to know to save your life!

I think the L plates on the high vis jacket is a great idea. While there a percentage of bikers with prov licenses that are probably good riders, there is still alot of muppets on the road who only wear a helmut because its the law.

Ive been biking for years and ive had 2 crashes through no fault of my own. Was it not for my training (Some of which is advanced level) id definitely be dead after my last crash.

Hotblack Desiato

faceman wrote: »

jaysus, your attitude to driving is quite frightening.

I dunno.
Between driving a car for the first time (before I started on bikes, so no road experience) and passing my test on the first go, it was 13 weeks. I was out practicing hard every evening with an experienced fully licensed driver, practiced parking and turning off-road, studied the ROTR hard, did two pre-tests with a very good instructor and passed no sweat. It's really not a big deal - the test really should be a lot harder than it is, but half of cagers still can't pass it...

In civilised countries it's the norm that people put a lot of effort into passing their test as quickly as they can - because there is zero tolerance of them driving on their own.

This means you're still pretty inexperienced when you pass your test, but at least you've passed it - that's got to be better than driving around for years on your own without having to do a test at all - or failing and just driving around on your own anyway.

The standard of driving (in general) in ireland is poor, for both cars and bikes. Some form of mandatory training is badly needed for bikers.

Wrong. Some form of mandatory training is badly needed for ALL road users! Why do we always get the sh**ty end of the stick because clueless gits can't look where they're going?

Doing lessons to pass your test, doesnt always teach your what you need to know to save your life!

Of course not. It's really only the start of the learning process. I'd like to see regular retesting of all drivers, with the pass standard getting higher each time :eek:

I think the L plates on the high vis jacket is a great idea.

It's daft. Should be on the bike. Also making any item of clothing mandatory is a very dangerous precedent to set. There's no reason in principle why they couldn't go on to demand head-to-toe CE armoured clothing for all riders...

faceman

ninja900 wrote: »

I dunno.
Between driving a car for the first time (before I started on bikes, so no road experience) and passing my test on the first go, it was 13 weeks. I was out practicing hard every evening with an experienced fully licensed driver, practiced parking and turning off-road, studied the ROTR hard, did two pre-tests with a very good instructor and passed no sweat. It's really not a big deal - the test really should be a lot harder than it is, but half of cagers still can't pass it...

Granted not everyone puts in as much effort as you have.

ninja900 wrote: »

Wrong. Some form of mandatory training is badly needed for ALL road users! Why do we always get the sh**ty end of the stick because clueless gits can't look where they're going?

i agree 100%.

ninja900 wrote: »

Of course not. It's really only the start of the learning process. I'd like to see regular retesting of all drivers, with the pass standard getting higher each time :eek:

I dont imagine this would ever happen. i guess all we can hope for is that the test if the right one from the get go.

ninja900 wrote: »

It's daft. Should be on the bike. Also making any item of clothing mandatory is a very dangerous precedent to set. There's no reason in principle why they couldn't go on to demand head-to-toe CE armoured clothing for all riders...

Good point re full armour, agree fully.

KildareMan

ninja900 wrote: »

MAG Ireland told them the vest idea was daft, but weren't listened to... :rolleyes: L-plates on the bikes themselves would have been fine.

Where are these yokes going to be available? Will they be free? Will existing provisional licence holders have to wear them or just new riders? Do the Department of Transport even know?

Does seem daft not to have them on the bike, but there you go - Muppets.
Of course the Tabards - high viz vest won't be free. What planet are you living on :rolleyes: And yes from DEc 1 ALL provisional bike license holders will have to wear one when riding a bike. I foresee lots of checkpoints coming up for the first month or so.

faceman

There are always lots of checkpoints in december anyway

Hotblack Desiato

KildareMan wrote: »

And yes from DEc 1 ALL provisional bike license holders will have to wear one when riding a bike. I foresee lots of checkpoints coming up for the first month or so.

FFS, I can see it now, they will be stopping and hassling all riders because of this bloody tabard thing!!! Stop bike. Take off gloves. Fish out wallet. Hand over licence. Wait while gobs*ite tries to figure out which box is motorbike entitlement :rolleyes: Take back licence. Put into wallet. Put wallet into jacket. Put gloves back on. Start bike. Rummage in tankbag for immobilizer fob. Disarm immobilizer. Start bike. Put away fob. Ride off :rolleyes:
Maybe I should start keeping my licence in the clear plastic pocket on top of my tankbag...

Spades

L-plates on the bike will not work, those plates will be ripped off the bike and dumped as some little feckers will think that is great fun. I have a bike and every time i leave it parked in public its tampered with, light switches etc etc:mad:

Wossack

I get treated with so much contempt on the roads already, I cant imagine what pasting a big red 'L' on me is going to do

MrPudding

ninja900 wrote: »

FFS, I can see it now, they will be stopping and hassling all riders because of this bloody tabard thing!!! Stop bike. Take off gloves. Fish out wallet. Hand over licence. Wait while gobs*ite tries to figure out which box is motorbike entitlement :rolleyes: Take back licence. Put into wallet. Put wallet into jacket. Put gloves back on. Start bike. Rummage in tankbag for immobilizer fob. Disarm immobilizer. Start bike. Put away fob. Ride off :rolleyes:
Maybe I should start keeping my licence in the clear plastic pocket on top of my tankbag...

Blowup a copy of your licence and stick it on the front and back of your jacket.

MrP

Idleater

ninja900 wrote: »

Maybe I should start keeping my licence in the clear plastic pocket on top of my tankbag...

No don't! it gets wet with the rain and you end up with a bunch of mush, a phone that won't switch on, and a relief that €50 notes do dry well eventually.

paulieeye

micmclo wrote: »

I got mine in 5 weeks-Raheny, North Dublin
Most get their test date within two months

I had mine booked in Rathgar since last feb, called the up last week and changed to Raheny...just got a letter in the post this morning with my test date for end of nov.

dogpile

For anyone doing their test after Dec1 I'd imagine wearing your L viz would be compulsary? failure to do so would mean automatic err failure, yes or no?

Pigeon Reaper

Without it you'd be prevented from taking the test. When I did the test I wore a hi-vis to give the correct impression. Wore one for a while afterwards but had too many idiots sitting on my arse while driving around the speed limit. Took it off and no more idiots sitting on my arse. I'm tempted to get a hi-vis jacket for winter though.

seamus

dogpile wrote: »

For anyone doing their test after Dec1 I'd imagine wearing your L viz would be compulsary? failure to do so would mean automatic err failure, yes or no?

As Pigeon Reaper says, the tester would take one look at you, ask where your vest is and if you don't have one, he'll just end the test right there.

I'm not sure where people are meant to get these vests, but you could probably bodge something together with a standard high-vis and some two-sided tape.

dogpile

[QUOTE=seamus;54312597

I'm not sure where people are meant to get these vests, but you could probably bodge something together with a standard high-vis and some two-sided tape.[/QUOTE]

There's an idea for anyone, bit of red masking tape nice and discreet not too big :rolleyes:

Hotblack Desiato

nereid wrote: »

No don't! it gets wet with the rain and you end up with a bunch of mush, a phone that won't switch on, and a relief that €50 notes do dry well eventually.

My tankbag has a rain cover. Although it's stood up to a few showers where I didn't put the cover on, and it hasn't leaked. Baglux quality FTW

Del2005

dogpile wrote: »

There's an idea for anyone, bit of red masking tape nice and discreet not too big :rolleyes:

The rules are for a letter ‘L’ not less than 15 centimetres high in red on a white ground. Only option will be duct tape or double sided tape as Seamus said and pray it doesn't blow off during the test.

Tree

red AND white insultating tape