should i buy a clone

Foxy-07

I was told ny a mate not to buy a clone.He said day are a waste of money and break easily is this true or should i get 1

pavilion

Depends if your gonna be plinking or skirmishing really

Dr_Pepper

There are some very good clone manufacturers out there which are excellent.
Having said that i only buy TM for reliability. I always go for top dollar.
Personal choice nothing more.

Fiach Dubh

If you are going for a clone Jing Gong's G36c is the most solid clone on the market without question. I've never seen one fail.

Eirsoft.ie has them.

Gatling

i use a so called clone ,mostly all metal ,and skirmish it regualrly and dont have any problems ,its all down to personal choice and budget , you should come out to HRTA and talk to everbody most of us will let you try AEGs out ,then make your decision ,

Alvin T. Grey

What he said.

bullets

Most of my stuff is clones and I've had no real issues with them.

~B

ambro25

Foxy-07 wrote: »

I was told ny a mate not to buy a clone.He said day are a waste of money and break easily is this true or should i get 1

As a matter of interest, what kind/brand of clones was he on about? (if he was)

If he was on about el cheapo LPEGs (e.g. Double Eagle or UTG or...), then he kind of had a point.

However, you would find out after a bit of digging in the stickies and regular threads in here, that there are 'tiers' of clones, and the higher-end clones (JG, D-Boys) can be just as reliable as the regular non-clones, if not more in some instances (e.g. the JG G36 mentioned above).

If it was brand-whoring, then he's just a sn0b

I have both, and my choice is only dictated by whether I can find what particular AEG I'm looking for as a clone or not.

Masada

im looking into getting an AEG aswell, dunno much about the brands but wouldnt be looking to spent silly money on one, maybe 150ish probably a bet more,.
I like the style of the Jing Gong G36c on Eirsoft but im just wondering is it possible to get spare parts easily enough if anything happens to these?.,
I like the Double Eagle Heckler & Koch UMP aswell., Anyone got any opinions on these 2 aegs?

bullets

One of my first buys was the JG G36C.
The thing is unreal!!!! The ABS feels real solid and tough
and its an all round solid bit of kit.
Ideal if you want to go on a skirmish and abuse the thing.
Defo recommend for a first buy.

rails on the top and bottom and you can add some
rails to the left and right side of the handguard a platform
for a beast of after purchase add on's you can eve ket
kits to convert it to different varients which look well cool.

Some other AEG's I find myself handling with care.
My Dboys while good they feel a bit flimsy and even
though I take good care of them I have found paint
"chips" off and I am left with bare metal.

~B

Evolute

ambro25 wrote: »

If it was brand-whoring, then he's just a sn0b

Thanks alot:p I did say that alot of clones were crappy heaps of junk but yes there are the few brands that are good and its not brand whoring. I was just telling him the facts and its safer to buy a higher end aeg in my opinion because they were the first makers of reliable aegs and that has to count for something or else they would have been bottoms up form the beginning. Mainly the reason for saying not a clone is because while some are sturdy ive heard of a few being very dodgey and because the names of good clone makers eluded me. Well the makers of reliable m4 clones anyways

Masada

bullets wrote: »

One of my first buys was the JG G36C.
The thing is unreal!!!! The ABS feels real solid and tough
and its an all round solid bit of kit.
Ideal if you want to go on a skirmish and abuse the thing.
Defo recommend for a first buy.

rails on the top and bottom and you can add some
rails to the left and right side of the handguard a platform
for a beast of after purchase add on's you can eve ket
kits to convert it to different varients which look well cool.

Some other AEG's I find myself handling with care.
My Dboys while good they feel a bit flimsy and even
though I take good care of them I have found paint
"chips" off and I am left with bare metal.

~B

cheers, the g36c sounds like its worth while, I might buy one of these on eirsoft.,
Is there a postage calculator on Eirsoft? Might ask if i can collect from shiva, im onlt down the road.,

Gatling

i tried Hoplite's G36c on saturday now i have the Dboys M4 and im getting the JG it out preformed the M4 in everyway im actuly jealous , Dboys paint on the barrel isnt the best but a bit of sandpaper a can of primer and a can of matt black spray should fix it ,

bullets

vtec wrote: »

cheers, the g36c sounds like its worth while, I might buy one of these on eirsoft.,
Is there a postage calculator on Eirsoft? Might ask if i can collect from shiva, im onlt down the road.,

For an AEG About 13 Euros for postage from Eirsoft with a tracking number.

~B

kdouglas

Gatling wrote: »

i tried Hoplite's G36c on saturday now i have the Dboys M4 and im getting the JG it out preformed the M4 in everyway im actuly jealous , Dboys paint on the barrel isnt the best but a bit of sandpaper a can of primer and a can of matt black spray should fix it ,

ive yet to fire the g36, but the m4 can be quite good when it's tweaked a little bit

Masada

bullets wrote: »

For an AEG About 13 Euros for postage from Eirsoft with a tracking number.

~B

cool, seems a waste though, im only beside croker myself., lol.,

Dboys paint on the barrel isnt the best but a bit of sandpaper a can of primer and a can of matt black spray should fix it ,

shouldnt use mat black on it, it is pretty easy to chip and scratch and it looks too dull., satin black is the best thing to use, its flat looking but still has a bit of a shine to it, just like the original.,:)

kdouglas

krylon paint is what you want

liamo333

kdouglas wrote: »

krylon paint is what you want

Krylon have stopped manufacturing

Masada

I think thats just a brand name for satin finish paint.,lol,

I only did the slide because im waiting for a new set of springs to arrive so gonna do the grip and everything when its all taken apart.,
this is what it looks like,

hoplite

Gatling wrote: »

i tried Hoplite's G36c on saturday now i have the Dboys M4 and im getting the JG it out preformed the M4 in everyway im actuly jealous , Dboys paint on the barrel isnt the best but a bit of sandpaper a can of primer and a can of matt black spray should fix it ,

Yep I have the DBoys M4 CQB/R and the JG G36c. The G36c is better. So much so that I have not skirmished with the M4 yet.

Got my G36c off eirsoft.

The folding stock makes it easy to transport in a regular sports bag and the clip together mags are great in the field. Great AEG to start out with.

Leidenfrost

Read this review on the JG G36c, you may have to open it up and re solder the positive wire going to the motor to fix the trigger--> firing lag.

http://www.colinsun.com/Colin/nfblog/?p=531

hoplite

Leidenfrost wrote: »

Read this review on the JG G36c, you may have to open it up and re solder the positive wire going to the motor to fix the trigger--> firing lag.

http://www.colinsun.com/Colin/nfblog/?p=531

I read this review myself as well before I purchased the G36c. I'm happy to say my AEg does not have this problem there is no appreciable trigger lag.

Fallschirmjager

well anyone who posts a thread like this needs to do what we all had to do...thats read. comments like all clones or all originals are always open to interpretation and views. what you need is facts and to decide yourself...to do that will require you to use what we all use here, this website and the stickies, google, arnies and a host of airsoft reviews. i think only then can you come back and say, this model of this aeg is the one that interests me.

also you never gave a budget...that ultimately decides what you can do. do you have 400 euro for a top grade aeg? if you do, obviously buy one of those, if you dont, well then you need the buy the best next on the list. what style of aeg do you like? if you like ak's well then getting opinions on m4 makers is not much help.

please avoid comments like all clones. its those carte blance statements that are always suspect. so get your money, count it out, review and then ask, not the other way around...doing it the other way around means you have a huge pile of opinions, a huge pile of aegs and still you have to decide...you will be no better off. that my tuppence worth

Hivemind187

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

well anyone who posts a thread like this needs to do what we all had to do...thats read. comments like all clones or all originals are always open to interpretation and views. what you need is facts and to decide yourself...to do that will require you to use what we all use here, this website and the stickies, google, arnies and a host of airsoft reviews. i think only then can you come back and say, this model of this aeg is the one that interests me.

also you never gave a budget...that ultimately decides what you can do. do you have 400 euro for a top grade aeg? if you do, obviously buy one of those, if you dont, well then you need the buy the best next on the list. what style of aeg do you like? if you like ak's well then getting opinions on m4 makers is not much help.

please avoid comments like all clones. its those carte blance statements that are always suspect. so get your money, count it out, review and then ask, not the other way around...doing it the other way around means you have a huge pile of opinions, a huge pile of aegs and still you have to decide...you will be no better off. that my tuppence worth

All that and try to get to a skirmish and fondle one or two of the types that interest you. Its probably already been said but their is no substitute for getting person with a unit.

For example, you might think that every one of them will have dimensions that will allow you to shoulder it but believe me that isnt true. I cant should a G3SG1 for example, the hand gaurd is too far from the butt stock, I have similar issues with FAL's and some other long types. I also find the baretta a little uncomfortable. On the other hand the G36 is fine and the P90 is the perfect size (have you guessed I'm short yet?).

There are other folks who cant abide the P90 for being too small, much less the MP7 or some of the MP5 variants.

There is also the issue of build quality, what you are happy with and whether a particular model operates in a way you like.

Lots of reading, lots of fondling and lots of saving should see you right when you make the plunge on your first AEG.

ambro25

Evolute wrote:

Thanks alot:p I did say that alot of clones were crappy heaps of junk but yes there are the few brands that are good and its not brand whoring.

Lighten up, it was a tongue-in-cheek comment :rolleyes:

Evolute wrote:

I was just telling him the facts and its safer to buy a higher end aeg in my opinion because they were the first makers of reliable aegs and that has to count for something or else they would have been bottoms up form the beginning. Mainly the reason for saying not a clone is because while some are sturdy ive heard of a few being very dodgey and because the names of good clone makers eluded me. Well the makers of reliable m4 clones anyways.

Of course buying a CA or TM M4 is "safer" than buying an A&K or JG or DBoys M4 in "out-of-the-box" quality terms.

The point, for clone supporters here, is that there isn't that much to fix on a 'bad' clone these days, and a majority of clones these days aren't 'bad' like they used to be. And the fixing, if fixing there must be, is also a good experience for understanding inner workings etc. and performing good maintenance as a consequence.

At the end of the day, a clone is built in exactly the same way as a branded AEG, with the same parts which fit in the same way (I'm talking in general, not specific properties of the parts) - that's why they're called clones.

[joke tags to make sure you understand it's tongue in cheek]
Imagine the OP's face, say you talked him into buying a €300 TM M4 instead of a €130 clone, and the TM breaks down on its first skirmish (admittedly rare, but known to happen). My money would be on your mate
[/joke tag]

It's a bit like cars:
#A - You buy the latest model out of the factory = you're bound to be the guy affected by manufacturer recalls/settings tweaking/etc.
#B - You wait a little while after a new model is released = all these problems are eventually ironed out in the production models, and you get trouble-free motoring.

Harekin

Im sorry but that is untrue. They are not true clones, they're not exact. The only reason they're called clones and not copies is for legal reasons.

The quality control in China...lets face it, Japan wins hands down.

Sure you can be lucky and get a good clone...but you can more times than not get a piece of crap.

I think anyone buying a gun should first consider whether they actually want to Airsoft.

If your the kinda person who succumbs to fads, etc. then buy a clone. If your someone who wants to Airsoft in the long run, buy a proper branded gun because of the quality, dependability and also resaleability of a branded AEG.

ambro25

Harekin wrote:

Im sorry but that is untrue. They are not true clones, they're not exact. The only reason they're called clones and not copies is for legal reasons.

As I said there are 'tiers' of clones: your statement is more-or-less true insofar as LPEGs are concerned. These are cheap and nasty and the internals/externals are bad copies (numerous shortcuts at the design/replication stage, very marginal following of dimensions & tolerances, all for cost considerations).

The "only reason they're called clones" has nothing to do with legal reasons, but is because they have been integrally copied (down to the markings in some cases, some clones even have ASGK/TM markings!) from high-end/branded stuff (usually TM).

The Chinese have either procured the moulds, or drawings, or just bought a TM/CA and reverse engineered it to the last component/millimeter. Fact of the matter is, most 'medium/top tier' clones will accomodate non-clone parts (inner/outer): G&P, Systema, TM, etc, etc.

The quality control in China is poor relative to Japan, and that goes for almost anything CN (not just airsoft stuff), but as I said (again), QA by CN AEG makers has improved leaps and bounds in a matter of months. Lemons used to be a near-rule about a year ago, and today you're a very long way forward from that situation.

Japan-levels of quality controls are far from unattainable by China: they have the manpower to do it, the manpower is cheap enough, and they want all the market share they can get.

Harekin wrote:

If your the kinda person who succumbs to fads, etc. then buy a clone. If your someone who wants to Airsoft in the long run, buy a proper branded gun because of the quality, dependability and also resaleability of a branded AEG.

Sensible advice, but a bit too categorical: I'm sure you've noticed by now that a lot of 'long term' airsofters in here have a healthy mix of clones and brands (me included btw). Any number of reasons for that, but the one common fact is that you don't see very many posts in here from people unhappy/having probs with their clones from RSOV, Gunner, Eirsoft and elsewhere, do you?

Shiva

Harekin wrote: »

but you can more times than not get a piece of crap

Right...I was going to keep out of this, because naturally I'm biased...but I have to step in and respond to that.

Maybe its just a turn of phrase you used without thinking, but its totally untrue.

I've sold more than 200 clones at this stage, and I've had 4 returned because they failed. That's a clear indication that "more times than not" you get a gun that works.

kdouglas

let's face it, clones vs high-end is to airsoft what windows vs linux is to computing, you'll always have people on both sides of the fence and you'lll never settle an argument about it, it really is down to personal opinion, like ambro, i also have a mix of clones and high-end stuff, but i do have more clones, on the other hand im not afraid to go messing around with an aeg (clone or otherwise) so if anything does break or need upgrading im more than happy to do it.

with regards quality, if your getting a decent clone and not one of the LPEG type ones then they are just as good as any TM, yea sure sometimes the paint finish might not be as good, but what do you expect for less than half the price?

Spetzcong

My Cyma AK-47 is an exact copy of the TM one, the only difference is in the quality of the metal used in the clone version and the quality of the gearbox. I've had no toubles with it at a skirmish, and any parts that do break down can be replaced with higher quality TM ones. If I had unlimited cash I'd go for big brand AEGs all the way, but lets face it, if you do your research a lot of the clones you can get are just as reliable, you'll have just as much fun with them and get just as much use, you're sacrificing the fact that you can be nearly 100% sure of the quality of a big brand AEG for the fact that a clone is about one third of the price, so the question really is, how much is the fact that you can be sure a big brand AEG is of good quality worth to you? If it's an extra 2 to 3 hundred euro, then go get yourself a classic army or TM, if it's not then do your research and look at some of the cheaper alternatives.

Gatling

the moral of the story is do your research and try before you buy

Alvin T. Grey

Well there is the other side of the coin too. Starting out, I'ld feel a whole lot more at ease throwing around a €150 clone then a €350 named brand.
Having said that, I never regretted buying my CA MP5.

Hivemind187

Alvin T. Grey wrote: »

Well there is the other side of the coin too. Starting out, I'ld feel a whole lot more at ease throwing around a €150 clone then a €350 named brand.
Having said that, I never regretted buying my CA MP5.

You get plenty of variation across the big names too. Your CA weighs a good 3lbs more than my ICS - but they are both based on the same model. I dont think the internals are that different but you certainly can feel the difference.

Evolute

ambro25 wrote: »

Lighten up, it was a tongue-in-cheek comment :rolleyes:



Of course buying a CA or TM M4 is "safer" than buying an A&K or JG or DBoys M4 in "out-of-the-box" quality terms.

The point, for clone supporters here, is that there isn't that much to fix on a 'bad' clone these days, and a majority of clones these days aren't 'bad' like they used to be. And the fixing, if fixing there must be, is also a good experience for understanding inner workings etc. and performing good maintenance as a consequence.

At the end of the day, a clone is built in exactly the same way as a branded AEG, with the same parts which fit in the same way (I'm talking in general, not specific properties of the parts) - that's why they're called clones.

[joke tags to make sure you understand it's tongue in cheek]
Imagine the OP's face, say you talked him into buying a €300 TM M4 instead of a €130 clone, and the TM breaks down on its first skirmish (admittedly rare, but known to happen). My money would be on your mate
[/joke tag]

It's a bit like cars:
#A - You buy the latest model out of the factory = you're bound to be the guy affected by manufacturer recalls/settings tweaking/etc.
#B - You wait a little while after a new model is released = all these problems are eventually ironed out in the production models, and you get trouble-free motoring.

I know u were joking beleive me if i took it serious well thatd just be stupid:p

Anyways the reason i said to him to buy a TM or Classic Army AEG was because ive held a Clone G36c made by JG and without being told it was a clone i knew there was something different about it. Its probably more personal opinion then anything else. Also i dont want him ending up with a bandy one that hes bought because ive told him about it.

And Shiva im just gonna say you may not have many complaints yet but can you boast that clones have the lasting power of a TM or a CA?

Cuddlesworth

Evolute wrote: »

And Shiva im just gonna say you may not have many complaints yet but can you boast that clones have the lasting power of a TM or a CA?

At a third of the price, define a price/quality/longevity formula that rules out them being great value.

Shiva

Evolute wrote: »

And Shiva im just gonna say you may not have many complaints yet but can you boast that clones have the lasting power of a TM or a CA?

Dunno, because its too early to tell. But Nonex swears by them - his rental clones get kicked about by newbies every weekend and they rarely let him down.

As Keith says though...its like Windows and Linux...each side has its zealots, and its an argument that will never end.
I only got involved because I took exception to a comment made earlier...I'm bowing out gracefully now

Fallschirmjager

Harekin wrote: »

Im sorry but that is untrue. They are not true clones, they're not exact. The only reason they're called clones and not copies is for legal reasons.

The quality control in China...lets face it, Japan wins hands down.

Sure you can be lucky and get a good clone...but you can more times than not get a piece of crap.

I think anyone buying a gun should first consider whether they actually want to Airsoft.

If your the kinda person who succumbs to fads, etc. then buy a clone. If your someone who wants to Airsoft in the long run, buy a proper branded gun because of the quality, dependability and also resaleability of a branded AEG.

BAWHAHAHAHAHA...dude that is truly priceless...are you trying to troll this thread which such mindless bunkum...

2 questions

1. do you own a clone?
2. have you been in a coma for the last 2 years

oh and if you dont own one, you are going on heresay...i own both..and what you said above is such a steaming pile of kak...LOL

Evolute

krazy_8s wrote: »

At a third of the price, define a price/quality/longevity formula that rules out them being great value.

No need for a formula if you end up buying a clone today and it gives up in a year and you buy another one and the next yer it dies and you get another and if you had the chance to get a High end one and didnt and your friend did and his still works wouldnt ya regret it and by then u would have ended up spending more.


I'm not dissing clones I'm just saying i have my doubts about them. When i find a clone i like the look and feel of and see a good review then chances are i will buy one

Harekin

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

BAWHAHAHAHAHA...dude that is truly priceless...are you trying to troll this thread which such mindless bunkum...

2 questions

1. do you own a clone?
2. have you been in a coma for the last 2 years

oh and if you dont own one, you are going on heresay...i own both..and what you said above is such a steaming pile of kak...LOL

Im sure some clones are great, but Ill be sticking to the brands I know thanks. Iv had my TR for over a year now, fired an AWFUL lot of rounds through it in alot of places alot of different times and its NEVER failed me whatsoever and NEVER needed ANYTHING repaired or anything.

Tell me of someone with a clone can boast that?

Anyways moral of the story, I was advising the OP, not generalising on the wider Airsoft community.

kdouglas

Harekin wrote: »

Tell me of someone with a clone can boast that?

there's plenty of people with clones can say exactly that, me included, with the exception that i've opened up all my clones so i cant say they were untouched, but they were only opened because i wanted to, not because there was anything wrong with them

as Shiva pointed out earlier, paul uses clones for rentals, and for good reason, the amount of abuse they get is unbelievable, and they still work fine with very little maintenance

anyway, im still not taking sides in the clone debate (wars??) i have the TM p90 as well and it's great

Harekin

Anyways, all I was saying was that he can buy whatever he wants...its his money and someone will always say buy/dont buy to something.

Fallschirmjager

Harekin wrote: »

Im sure some clones are great, but Ill be sticking to the brands I know thanks. Iv had my TR for over a year now, fired an AWFUL lot of rounds through it in alot of places alot of different times and its NEVER failed me whatsoever and NEVER needed ANYTHING repaired or anything.

Tell me of someone with a clone can boast that?

Anyways moral of the story, I was advising the OP, not generalising on the wider Airsoft community.

BOAST::

I HAVE A CLONE AND HAVE FIRED A LOT OF ROUNDS THRU IT AND HAVE NEVER TOUCHED IT...

so i guess i am BOASTING!!

and i hate to disagree but you were generalising to the wider airsoft community..a comment like

'Sure you can be lucky and get a good clone...but you can more times than not get a piece of crap.
I think anyone buying a gun should first consider whether they actually want to Airsoft.
If your the kinda person who succumbs to fads, etc. then buy a clone. If your someone who wants to Airsoft in the long run'

that is nothing more then speculation and personal bias. if you dont want to buy a clone, dont, but keep your opinions to facts...the facts prove you are wrong. shiva was talking about a 2% failure rate...2%...that is very very low.

SO here is the thing. I have been in airsoft longer then i care to remember quite frankly. i was around when CA, yes CA, YES, THAT CA was the clone, and no one would touch them. Everyone then got their knickers in a right old twist about CA. Strangely the exact same arguements i am hearing now. poor workmanship, terrible gearboxes, cheap crap, always breaks down blah blah blah...

Not everyone has the money to spend on expensive aeg's. I love TM, personally the world would be a darker place without them. I love CA although i dont own any of them. I held skatedudes VFC and quite frankly it was handmade by virgins, touched by jesus and passed to the irish postal system to him. its a piece of art, christ, i didnt even want to touch it it was that friggen cool. I have TMs, i have G&Gs, i have dboys, i have AGM.

chinese aeg's are responsible for one thing...they have popped a major bull**** bubble in the industry. the harsh reality is it doesnt cost anything near 400 dollars to make an aeg. there is a lot of companies who have been raping and pillaging the airsoft community for years. How can a moulded piece of foregrip cost over 100 dollars?? The reality is, it does, because people needed it and there was nothing else and they were willing to pay. The clone market is about competition, nothing more and nothing less. its volume versus specialisation. Competition is a good thing. I have the money to spend a hundred dollars on a foregrip but i choose not to. Clones are a door opener for people to airsoft. One of the main problems with cheap aeg's is you have a lot of people who have not the foggiest idea on basic airsoft maintenace or concepts now using them wondering why they are no longer working. That has lead to a huge rise in comments like 'my chinese aeg wont work...' i guarantee you have people with TM and CA with exactly the same issues, EXCEPT they know the industry and quietly go about fixing them. Yes there is QA issues with clones, what do you expect for 100 dollars? if i get a metal clone and the gearbox goes, i will replace it. I can get a cheap gearbox for 20 dollars or an expensive one, that is my choice, something even with original aegs, you will eventually do, and plastic bushings in TM come to mind here.the airsoft industry is about tweaking, modding either the looks or the performance or both. to do that, you will be modifying the internals, regardless of make or model. Now i honestly dont care whether you buy a clone or not, but gross generalisations are , well gross generalisations.

There is a peculiar thing that goes on in airsoft also, justification. i want to justify why i spent 900 dollars on this aeg...so how do i do that, i convice other to buy the same thing thereby justifying my spend. as it happens the same issue is going on in the clone market. its the same in every sport and hobby from speakers, to pc's to golf clubs as it happens. Chinese aeg's has its zealots as well. Me, i dont care. i would love a tm m14, truly i would...but i just dont think they are worth that money. Now if you love m14, go buy one, but me i dont, so i wont. i have a super expensive M4, i do spend my money on because i love m4's. whats most interesting to me, is the m4 i use airsofting, is a dboys. i have not had one misfire, i think i adjusted the hopup once (in fact where is the hopup?), the battery is still working perfectly. i have a tm m1a1, that quite frankly could shoot around corners it flexes that much. I am not bothered because i can fix it. all aeg's die...its high speed movement and metal and those two forces are never a good mix. the car industry is nearly 100 years old and has not managed that task, i think its a wee bit unfair to expect the airsoft industry to do so in 25years.
also some other things people need to realise. a lot of the so called originals are now manfactured in CHINA. Systema parts are made in china (apparently). a lot of these companies will not advertise those facts, but that is the reality of the modern world...china is cheap in manafacturing. The airsoft industry is changing, clones will have to change or they wont last. thats already happening, (e.g. the new kart ebr doesnt come with batteries or the crap chargers) they will have to improve where they are poor, and likewise the original manufacturers will have to either completely specialise (e.g. the bar rifle for 1000 dollars) or get better at price. the latter has already happened. Am i the only one who has noticed how cheaper they are getting?? one other issue is people will start on clones and move as they commit to the game. thats the way the world works. you can use eirsoft.ie as an example. Shiva is now selling high quality aeg's because people are looking for them. one other issue is a lot of sellers dont like clones because its simple ecomomics-- they dont earn as much on them. As airsoft grows the players will also. me, i will use my dboys until it dies, i will use my g&g until it dies...and then i will fix them.

there are good aeg's and bad aeg's regardless of where they are made. love them or hate them, they are here to stay.

if anyone wasnts to hear a true chinese story from a guy i work with in australia that is both extremely funny and extremely scary, i will tell you on saturday. it shows the power of chinese manfacturing.

Finally The size of airsoft has dramatically increased with the arrival of cheap clones. people who could not afford to get involved now can and that has annoyed a lot of people who loved the elitism of airsoft, they see it as the great unwashed are now playing, dirtying up the sport. me i dont care. there are a lot of people at HRTA that would not be there except for clones. Remember that when you run around playing 40+ people.

Hivemind187

Lads, seriously. Calm down

Its not that big of a deal. Clones were utter, irredeemable junk but many of the companies making them have made serious imporvements (with a few notable exceptions).

CA and ICS are both begining to produce all ABS models. TM has begun making metal units (something it was previously not allowed to do).

A couple of years down the line the Chinese will probably have matched or exceeded the Japanese/Taiwanese in quality control - but I douubt they will have made any new innovations that change the sport in the same way as the Hop-Up did.

The argument for buying a clone right now is that they are cheaper and even if they break, chances are your can replace the entire unit for a measly sum. The argument for buying a high-end is that chances are that you wont have to repair it, that it will be extremely accomodating to upgrades and you get to point to the CA or TM markings and say "I've got the expensive one bizntiches!".

Fallschirmjager

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Its not that big of a deal. Clones were utter, irredeemable junk but many of the companies making them have made serious imporvements (with a few notable exceptions).

CA and ICS are both begining to produce all ABS models. TM has begun making metal units (something it was previously not allowed to do).

you get to point to the CA or TM markings and say "I've got the expensive one bizntiches!".

and thats the good news..more money to spend on more...

hahaha coupled with the classic gun pron comment at the end...

its like the trades on aeg's...beautiful gun pron, but does it help you aim, er, no...but do i want them...your are god dammed right i do!!

Hivemind187

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

and thats the good news..more money to spend on more...

hahaha coupled with the classic gun pron comment at the end...

its like the trades on aeg's...beautiful gun pron, but does it help you aim, er, no...but do i want them...your are god dammed right i do!!

Of course this is also coming from me, a man with 4 high ends and only 1 clone (a KJ Works, so a High-end clone at that!)

Shiva

Hivemind187 wrote: »

only 1 clone

/pimp mode

C'mon over here into my office...I have something I want to show you.....

Fallschirmjager

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Of course this is also coming from me, a man with 4 high ends and only 1 clone (a KJ Works, so a High-end clone at that!)

oh jesus...hivemind is a friggen airsoft snob...!!! LOL

i wont sully my collection with some low grade tat from china...BAWHAHAH

Hivemind187

Shiva wrote: »

/pimp mode

C'mon over here into my office...I have something I want to show you.....

Thats so damn creepy coming from a bloke using the Hindu godess of Death as an internet handle ';)

Hivemind187

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

oh jesus...hivemind is a friggen airsoft snob...!!! LOL

i wont sully my collection with some low grade tat from china...BAWHAHAH

Too bloody right I am ... except that every one of them except the clone is second hand

Shiva

Hivemind187 wrote: »

Thats so damn creepy coming from a bloke using the Hindu godess of Death as an internet handle ';)

God.
Shiva was the male half and/or consort of Kali, depending on which branch of Hinduism you read.

Hivemind187

Shiva wrote: »

God.
Shiva was the male half and/or consort of Kali, depending on which branch of Hinduism you read.

My bad. I guess my Hindu mythology is a little rusty