Passport controls planned between Ireland and the UK

Dub13 · 24-10-2007 7:58am #1

I had an idea this day was coming,I was hoping we would get be exempt from this.

Irish people will reportedly be required to produce a passport when travelling to Britain due to a planned tightening of border controls in the coming years.

Since the foundation of the State, the two countries have operated a common travel area that allows people to travel from one to the other without needing a passport.

However, reports this morning say the system will come to an end in 2009 due to the introduction of new electronic border controls.

The British Government has reportedly decided to press ahead with the new controls at the earliest possible date in order to track the movements of terrorist suspects, criminals and illegal immigrants.

Link

connundrum · 24-10-2007 8:12am

I don't see this as a bad thing tbh. Some airlines do require that you produce a passport or driving licence to board anyways.

I remember thinking it was funny when BMI started off asking for a passport, then drivers licence, then any photo ID.. and finally settled for my bank card with my name on it.

seamus · 24-10-2007 8:16am

I've always carried my passport to the UK, so I'm not overly concerned. I'm assuming this won't apply when travelling into NI?

This is good though - this will allow us to subscribe further to the Schengen agreement with the rest of the EU.

Dub13 · 24-10-2007 8:19am

seamus wrote: »

I'm assuming this won't apply when travelling into NI?

This will not apply to trips into the North as it would be to hard to police.

gurramok · 24-10-2007 8:23am

Dub13 wrote: »

I had an idea this day was coming,I was hoping we would get be exempt from this.

Link

Exempt?

FFS, we are a friggin independent nation and need to keep track of all sorts coming and going like every other nation has done for donkeys years, its about bleedin time this came about.

It won't kill you to bring your passport to the UK next time.

The present system is been abused by all sorts sneaking back and forth between the countries including paedos nevermind dodgy asylum seekers.

I bet the UK will welcome this development for the good of both countries as well.

Dub13 · 24-10-2007 8:30am

gurramok wrote: »

FFS, we are a friggin independent nation and need to keep track of all sorts coming and going like every other nation has done for donkeys years, its about bleedin time this came about.

Well a lot of other EU country have no passport control and it has not effected there 'frigging independents'.The new proposed system has a major hole,you can drive up to Larne and then take a ferry across to the UK and still not need a passport.

The main thing this was handy for was flying into major UK airports,have you ever arrived into Gatwick Airport and seen the Q for passport controll...?it was great to head for the lane for flights from Ireland/other UK airports.

gurramok · 24-10-2007 8:44am

Dub13 wrote: »

Well a lot of other EU country have no passport control and it has not effected there 'frigging independents'.The new proposed system has a major hole,you can drive up to Larne and then take a ferry across to the UK and still not need a passport.

The main thing this was handy for was flying into major UK airports,have you ever arrived into Gatwick Airport and seen the Q for passport controll...?it was great to head for the lane for flights from Ireland/other UK airports.

Err they do have passport control, its now called carrying your passport/national ID card when crossing borders unlike us at present who carry neither to UK only and vice versa.

If you want to fly from Paris to Berlin, you need that passport and it should be the same from Dublin to London.
The Brits need to know who is coming to their country and us vice versa.

If you want to get ferry from Larne to Scotland to get to London, your hiding something.:D

cornbb · 24-10-2007 8:48am

seamus wrote: »

This is good though - this will allow us to subscribe further to the Schengen agreement with the rest of the EU.

I agree, joining the Schengen agreement would be great. But doesn't the fact that the Irish government will be introducing their own electronic border controls effectively "sealing off the 2 islands" indicate that this won't happen?

cornbb · 24-10-2007 8:49am

gurramok wrote: »

If you want to fly from Paris to Berlin, you need that passport

No you don't, look up the Schengen agreement.

Heisenberg. · 24-10-2007 8:52am

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daveirl · 24-10-2007 8:53am

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gurramok · 24-10-2007 8:54am

cornbb wrote: »

No you don't, look up the Schengen agreement.

Has it changed since 2004 when i last flew between cities on the continent?

You do need that passport/national id card if they check you, that is a difference to having no passport control desks at every airport hence free movement.

davirl wrote:

You don't need your passport to complete that journey. It's covered by Schengen.

Same as above, you need a passport/nation id card to be on you in case your checked.

Ye are getting mixed up between checking desks argument(pre schengen) and the requirement to carry something to identify who you are.

Mossy Monk · 24-10-2007 8:57am

I welcome this move.

Dub13 · 24-10-2007 9:05am

gurramok wrote: »

If you want to get ferry from Larne to Scotland to get to London, your hiding something.:D

The fact remains if you do have something to hide this is a big wide hole in the policy and open to exploitation.

Dub13 · 24-10-2007 9:09am

The Scientist wrote: »

cool, it'll make me feel important the next time i fly to Gatwick.

Thats grand if its a once a year job but it can take a couple of hours to clear passport control,this is not good if you are a businessman making the trip a couple of times a week.

Scoobydoobydoo · 24-10-2007 9:09am

Dub13 wrote: »

I had an idea this day was coming,I was hoping we would get be exempt from this.

What's the problem? I always take my passport to the U.K. We are a separate country, thankfully!

gurramok · 24-10-2007 9:12am

Dub13 wrote: »

The fact remains if you do have something to hide this is a big wide hole in the policy and open to exploitation.

Agreed.

Carrying a passport or an Irish national ID card(if it ever happens) will help the UK police identify who you are.
Presently, you could put on a lovely Irish accent and give them a bank card to say your Irish which is hardly 100% legit

cornbb · 24-10-2007 9:13am

Dub13 wrote: »

The fact remains if you do have something to hide this is a big wide hole in the policy and open to exploitation.

The Irish government are also implementing an electronic border control system and plan to co-operate with the UK, so while Irish citizens could still sneak over that would effectively alert the UK government to any flagged person travelling in via Ireland, and vice-versa.

gurramok wrote:

You do need that passport/national id card if they check you, that is a difference to having no passport control desks at every airport hence free movement.

As far as I can tell, people from non-Schengen countries just need their passport checked when entering the Schengen area. I can't see any requirement to carry a passport when travelling withing the area.

daveirl · 24-10-2007 9:22am

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watna · 24-10-2007 9:27am

This is a good idea. When my kiwi bf arrived in Irealand 2 years ago he came from Holyhead on the boat (cheap backpacker style). He never had his passport checked, he had a visa but he just walked in to the country. He could have been from anywhere. He's of indian descent so he has a slight terroristy look aabout him too! (He gets really offended when he's always the one to get his bag checked everywhere, I say it's cos he has jihad in his eyes!)

Sniipe · 24-10-2007 9:29am

I like this idea, I'm all for it.

daveirl · 24-10-2007 9:35am

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gurramok · 24-10-2007 9:35am

cornbb wrote: »

As far as I can tell, people from non-Schengen countries just need their passport checked when entering the Schengen area. I can't see any requirement to carry a passport when travelling withing the area.

First part yes, second part NO.

Have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement, as stated by good self earlier in thread:

wikipedia wrote:

When travelling by air between Schengen countries, identification (usually passport or national ID card) must be shown at check-in. This is not a Schengen rule, but rather an air security rule that applies equally for domestic flights within a Schengen country.
According to the Schengen rules, all hotels and other types of accommodation must register the name, citizenship and ID number of all foreign citizens [18]. For this reason, a passport or a national ID card must be shown at check-in. A similar rule existed in some countries already before the Schengen Agreement.

Jumpy · 24-10-2007 9:37am

It also means that any muppet with an Irish license cannot travel without a passport.
I wonder will this change the border controls in the north? I doubt it.

seamus · 24-10-2007 9:42am

daveirl wrote: »

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I guess that's the only problem. The UK legislation may allow for passport control on departure so that everyone gets checked in Ireland and then can stroll off the plane in the UK.

the_syco · 24-10-2007 9:43am

LOL. Someone from the UK will need a passport to go elsewhere in the UK:D

Dub13 · 24-10-2007 9:44am

It may also effect Irish people using Heathrow airport (nobody from Shannon..:))for a connection to the US etc,I can see a lot of people missing flights while this beds in.

purple'n'gold · 24-10-2007 9:44am

This will probably inconvenience older people, who have relations in the UK and visit them every so often. Lots of these people never bothered getting a passport. The didn’t have any use for one. But if it stops or slows down the illegal immigrant/”asylum seeker” traffic, it is to be welcomed. It of course will mean that the Gardai will have to keep a closer eye on the border, and the British will have to do the same in Larne, etc.

cornbb · 24-10-2007 9:45am

gurramok wrote: »

First part yes, second part NO.

Have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement, as stated by good self earlier in thread:

Passport/ID may be required by airlines/hotels but they are not a requirement for internal movement

http://europa.eu/abc/travel/doc/index_en.htm wrote:

When entering or leaving the EU at the external borders you will need a valid passport or an ID card. You may, of course, need your passport when leaving the EU in order to enter the country of your destination.

It is best to have your passport or ID card when travelling in the EU because you may be required to prove your identity.

"It is best to" does not equate to "must".

watna · 24-10-2007 10:08am

daveirl wrote: »

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Yes, he did have his passport checked when arriving in the UK, but that doesn't mean he's entitled to visit Ireland without his passport being checked. What if he was from a country that needed a transit visa to visit the Uk, he had that but then wandered in to Ireland without having a visa for here. I'm not down with that!

blindman · 24-10-2007 10:11am

I had an incident some years ago when I couldn't identify myself at the border to a nervous young british soldier. At one stage I had a gun to my head eventhough I had more right to be there than him. My car was searched and eventualy they came across my cheque book, the only thing they could find with my name on it. The car wasn't even registered to me as I had only just bought it.
I always carry my passport when travelling now.

gurramok · 24-10-2007 10:16am

cornbb wrote: »

"It is best to" does not equate to "must".

'Best' really means is to avoid any problems of hassle when a check is carried out to identify oneself.
Bank cards/drivers license can be faked, they are quite strict on the continent on what can be taken as sufficient ID hence the advice of a passport/ID card when crossing borders.

Funny thing is the UK and Ireland(as well as Denmark) are the only old EU countries don't have any national ID cards(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_identity_card_policies_by_country#Countries_with_compulsory_identity_cards)
so a passport would be advised to carry around while in Schengen countries.

mise_me_fein · 24-10-2007 10:31am

The title needs to be changed from the UK to Britain.

I'm ok with this. We need tighter border controls ourselves. The Brits have very enticing rules for so called asylum seekers once they've been their for more than 6 months so I can totally understand why they;re doing this.

We should get something like this ourselves.

robinph · 24-10-2007 10:47am

cornbb wrote: »

As far as I can tell, people from non-Schengen countries just need their passport checked when entering the Schengen area. I can't see any requirement to carry a passport when travelling withing the area.

Except you do need to have some form of national ID on you whilst then travelling within some of the Schengen countries, as Ireland and the UK have no such thing that then defaults to being your passport.

In the same way that we can fly between Dublin and London on just a driving licenses a French national could fly from Paris to Berlin on their ID card though, we could not though as the continental border controls would not recognise the UK, and especially the Irish, driving licenses as suitable forms of ID.

Fratton Fred · 24-10-2007 11:59am

blindman wrote: »

I had an incident some years ago when I couldn't identify myself at the border to a nervous young british soldier. At one stage I had a gun to my head eventhough I had more right to be there than him. My car was searched and eventualy they came across my cheque book, the only thing they could find with my name on it. The car wasn't even registered to me as I had only just bought it.
I always carry my passport when travelling now.

I thought that was worth highlighting. I doubt if he cared too much who had more right to be there, probably cared that you may have a car load of semtex! The system/situation would be to blame, not the poor sod on duty.:)

Dub13 wrote: »

It may also effect Irish people using Heathrow airport (nobody from Shannon..:))for a connection to the US etc,I can see a lot of people missing flights while this beds in.

Arrivals from Ireland into Heathrow are considered "domestic" which is why at Terminal one there is no customs or passport control for Irish flights. I always thought that if you are a transit passenger you have to go landside and back through security etc to continue your journey. I wonder if this means they will have to move the Irish flights to another terminal or into the international part of T1.

daveirl · 24-10-2007 12:39pm

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DonJose · 24-10-2007 12:59pm

I'm 100% for this, I've nothing to hide and even I have to show my Irish passport at Dublin airport when returning home.

Would anybody like to hazard a guess at the number of illegal immigrants currently in Ireland. I'm sure the 100,000+ Chinese walking the streets of Dublin are not all holders of student visas.

robinph · 24-10-2007 1:10pm

DonJose wrote: »

I'm 100% for this, I've nothing to hide and even I have to show my Irish passport at Dublin airport when returning home.

No you don't.

You just happen to have your passport on you as the form of photo ID that you used to board the plane in the UK so you wave it as them as you speed past the Garda sat looking bored in the box. I open mine up now though as the crest on the front has worn off so they cannot tell what country it is from anymore, but have just gone through with it closed and showing them the front cover many times without slowing down as I walk past them.

purple'n'gold · 24-10-2007 1:19pm

I was listening to the one ‘o clock news and heard the Taoiseach say that most of our illegal immigrants come through Northern Ireland. Surely this means that there should be more scrutiny of, trains, buses etc coming across the border.

mise_me_fein · 24-10-2007 1:31pm

purplengold wrote: »

I was listening to the one ‘o clock news and heard the Taoiseach say that most of our illegal immigrants come through Northern Ireland. Surely this means that there should be more scrutiny of, trains, buses etc coming across the border.

I don't think this will be a problem once the Brits bring in this new ID thing.

I think most people would agree that having any kinds of checks on the border is a bad thing.

Latchy · 24-10-2007 2:31pm

I live in UK but have being taking my irish passport with me back and forth to ireland last 20 years , just in case anybody has any doubts .....

mise_me_fein · 24-10-2007 2:36pm

latchyco wrote: »

I live in UK but have being taking my irish passport with me back and forth to ireland last 20 years , just in case anybody has any doubts .....

Good thinking....if only everyone thought like that.

Latchy · 24-10-2007 2:45pm

Quote =mise_me_fein;Good thinking....if only everyone thought like that.

Funny enough it's usualy British people over the years who ask me if they need their passport when visting ireland .It seems the way it's going they soon will .

robinph · 24-10-2007 3:24pm

latchyco wrote: »

I live in UK but have being taking my irish passport with me back and forth to ireland last 20 years , just in case anybody has any doubts .....

But at the moment you don't need to and only need photo ID due to airport security. Get the ferry and you need anything other than a slightly convincing Irish or British accent on the off chance that you might get stopped.

The actors in series two of Heroes would clearly not get away with that though.

Latchy · 24-10-2007 3:40pm

Quote =robinph;But at the moment you don't need to and only need photo ID due to airport security. Get the ferry and you need anything other than a slightly convincing Irish or British accent on the off chance that you might get stopped.

Saw a quite few Africans being refused entry and returned to UK on my travels on the UK/IRE ferrys ....

purple'n'gold · 24-10-2007 3:48pm

latchyco wrote: »

Saw a quite few Africans being refused entry and returned to UK on my travels on the UK/IRE ferrys ....

If their travel documents were not in order, then they should be sent back to the UK. Thats they way its supposed to be.

Latchy · 24-10-2007 4:39pm

purplengold wrote: »

If their travel documents were not in order, then they should be sent back to the UK. Thats they way its supposed to be.

Yes,and thats they way it is .Remember seeing one guy sitting rigid with fear on the ferry back to liverpool because he knew the cops would be waiting for him on return.

robinph · 24-10-2007 4:58pm

latchyco wrote: »

Saw a quite few Africans being refused entry and returned to UK on my travels on the UK/IRE ferrys ....

...and if they have no way of proving their residency/ citizenship of either state then that is as it should be.

It would be relatively easy for me to prove both beyond reasonable doubt to the police on either side without me having my passport or driving license on me though. Neither state currently has any law regarding the need to carry a form of ID on you at any time, or for crossing any border between the two states unless you are a citizen of a third country. I'm guessing that the people you saw being refused entry were not UK or Irish citizens?

daveirl · 24-10-2007 5:02pm

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Latchy · 24-10-2007 5:10pm

robinph wrote: »

... I'm guessing that the people you saw being refused entry were not UK or Irish citizens?

That is correct ,but unsure of their status as to why they were entering the republic .They may have had short term uk visas or illigal immigrants trying to enter republic ,if so how would they have got on ferry in first place ?

robinph · 24-10-2007 5:24pm

latchyco wrote: »

That is correct ,but unsure of their status as to why they were entering the republic .They may have had short term uk visas or illigal immigrants trying to enter republic ,if so how would they have got on ferry in first place ?

You only need a ticket in order to get on the ferry.

If the police at either side have reason to suspect that there might be people who are not entitled to make use of the free travel area on board then they might show up though, otherwise there is no reason for them to be there.

Passport controls planned between Ireland and the UK

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