Engineering Project 2008

Black_Venom

We got our design brief's today. Was wondering would you have any ideas that might help me in my design process, But first i need a little help in interpreting the brief a little better

1.Intro
Materials handling technology, for transportation building materials between locations and levels on a building site, its an integral part of a modern construction environment.

Design a model of a portable materials handling device to the general specifications outlined below.

The device should :

• Be capable of delivering materials to and from different levels;
• Be mobile to facilitate transportation between site locations;
• Be controlled by an ON/OFF switch;
• Include an electronic indicator to signal that the device is in operation

Presentation of the completed device should ensure that;

• All main operating features are clearly visible without dismantling
• The longest dimension of the device does not exceed 300mm;
• Electric power does not exceed 9 volts.

I think the easier the design is here the better because after all i do have to make it as-well :P I'm just looking for some ideas in how to aproach this but im not necessarily asking you to design it for me


Cheers
Liam

kirving

A fork-lift, or crane would be the most obvious answer. But functionality is only 10 marks, so even a teleporter (with wheels) could be accepted I think!

Also, whats the story the 300mm limit? What I mean is - if I have a part that can be extended, can that exceed the 300 mm limit, as long as its under 300mm when folded down?

NiSmO

This post has been deleted.

#Daniel

Kevin Irving wrote: »

A fork-lift, or crane would be the most obvious answer. But functionality is only 10 marks, so even a teleporter (with wheels) could be accepted I think!

Also, whats the story the 300mm limit? What I mean is - if I have a part that can be extended, can that exceed the 300 mm limit, as long as its under 300mm when folded down?

according to my teacher they arent too picky about things like that, I'd say extendable things are exempt, afterall most machines used in building extend in some way.


does anyone else have design ideas? I was thinking a forklift to be the most obvious, but half the country will probably make that.

HungryJoey

When I did mine last year ( ball machine.. ) I mis-calculated something wrong and it ended up 340mm wide. My teacher said it was fine and that they don't mind about a few mm over. I got a B1 in HL in the end also winning the engineering prize of the year too ( prize-giving ) for it :cool:

But my god does the project this year sound very strange & tricky!

Hj

turgon

We got the brief Tuesday too. Both my engineering teacher AND my tech graph teacher described another vehicle (NOT a forklift) that satisfies the brief. And its a far better idea than the forklift. I wouldn't mind half the country doing a forklift cause there would be more marks for us!!!!

Ive half designed mine already and I have 47 pieces to make!!! Ill have to get rid of some defo though.

turgon

But my god does the project this year sound very strange & tricky!

NOOO. Its making so many pieces will be hard all you have to do is make something that will lift up and down and drive around. That ball thing was a pain in the ass from what I could see!!!!!

kirving

Ive got my basic idea sketched out, and I'm doing the final drawings it in SketchUp. Im trying to make as few pieces as possible, but it will be about the 30 mark Id say.

Black_Venom

yeh she is a hard one alright..

I was thinking about using a pulley system to lift and more of a trolley than a fork lift shape, using scissors lifts and extendable pieces is just complicating things in my opinion. Lucky for me my Tg teacher and Engineering teacher is the same guy. I think the 300mm applies to the diagonal length from corner to corner, so it cant be 300mm long but according to Madigan he says there not to bothered if its a bit over. They basically just don't want big monstrosities handed up.

I have sketched out the basic shape in solidworks of my design but have no measurements or parts. I may get cracking because we are starting on Monday i think..

If i can remember il check back with you guys in a few months and we can say how we got on with it.

Good luck

Nanaki

the 300mm is the largest dimension, but if there's an extending arm or something like that, then the individual pieces can't be more the 300 each, but it can be more than that while extended
still have to sort any ideas out lol
the ordinary one is ridiculously simple! they get a drawing too

Alvis

turgon wrote: »

NOOO. Its making so many pieces will be hard all you have to do is make something that will lift up and down and drive around. That ball thing was a pain in the ass from what I could see!!!!!

Afaik it doesn't have to be self-propelled, so I'm doing mine on top of a trailer-based chassis. Less work yay

chris85

The best idea would probably be something like a pallet mover as used in many grocery stores.

Something similar to what is shown below

http://www.visionbldgsystems.com/images/bg_pallettruck.jpg

Black_Venom

emm i duno do they use pallet lifters on building sites, yeh your right it doesnt have to be self propelled but i think im gona just run two motors of one 9 volt i think one for liftin one for moving

Alvis

FTW

chris85

Apologies didnt see the building site part, my mistake

engineer23

Did anyone upload there ideas to sketchup warehouse yet!

Thanks

I think its a teleporter but it pretty hard

SRFC90

had so much work to do over mid-term, im only sitting down now to think of ideas, sketches n so on!!

still pondering whether to do honours or pass. i do L.C.V.P so if i do well in my other pass subjects, i reckon my L.C.V.P will cover this.

im not very strong at the theory side of things, is it really worth the stress? what do yee guy reckon?:)

kulva

If you put a great deal of time into the practical project you will be rewarded. I certainly did (once or twice in the school at 8 at night on a friday) and came out with my A. I feel it is worth the stress when you finish your project and portfolio and can sit back and just look at it. Its a real sense of accomplishment.Good Luck with it!!

robs_russell

Guys, i know this thread is about higher level project, and from what we've been talking about in class, most ppl are tending towards the teleporter more thananything else...
thats neither here nor there...


My Question is related to the Ordinary Level Project...



The Ordinary Level project is to make a model Racing Car, im working on a model F1 car, but, whet i wanted to know is this...

Would you think Vacuum forming for the Model itself sufice? with a clear base, to show the working for the model. (something like Perspex)

king909

to be honest amte although vacuum forming would work i wouldnt go that route if i were u because it just makes it look like ur taking the easy way out u no. it i were u id try and make a few pieces by hand nd even vacuum form the rest. show that you have the skill to do it u no..

nariek1

Well Robs. I am an engineering teacher who actually examines the projects and i can tell u for certain there will b no problem with that idea so long as it is within the confines of the brief, i.e size, function etc. Also make sure to leave out wooden mould 2 b included for grading. Gud luck

Nanaki

for the ordinary level project I would avoid vacuum forming as it leaves very little work in it that you can be marked on.
For the higher project apparently we can use it to make a cover for the chassis and mechanism, plan on doing that once I get a chassis worked out!

robs_russell

Thanks guys.

I plan to go that route, as the design has to be finalised in the morning.
thatnks for the tip about leaving the mould out, never would of even crossed my mind...

i plan on making a perspex base, and making two (clear) plastic supports for the axle you know... something attached to the base, with 2 90 degree angles, with 2 holes for the axle to sit in because i doubt that the vacuum formed cover would be strong enuf to support it.

using a small gearbox i have made up in the last year, i intend on using it to slow down the rpm for the wheels, because i doubt it would be a good idea to have the wheels spinning at 300-700rpm when the examiner turns it on and it zipping away from him, having to run after it LOL (i find that image hilarious)

but yea, thanks guys.

P.S. anybody know of a website where i can submit my design and see it working??

ive heard of such a site, but i cant find it anywhere.

robs_russell

also, i plan on having it about 290mm in length and roughly 190 in width... im gonna do it out in CAD and see what she looks like, then ill finialise my measurements, and also im sure it will function just fine, as i have it all mentally planned out, just trying to put it all into practice may be the tricky part

Wolf07

anyone know what size of a motor i would need to be able to

1. lift something up and down (that can handle a little weight)
2. that can cause wheels to move left and right

(like in http://www.cambergroup.com/bridgecs.gif)
but i don't want them to be too fast just nice enough.

like what voltage motor/or/ RPM?????
something from 300-1000rpm i think would be ok

please help

ASAP

Nanaki

^ get a motor with a built in gearbox for the lifting, and whatever mechanism you're using for it, it wouldn't hurt to have the ratios (if its some kind of gears) so it goes even slower. Your teacher should know about them
But I'm not sure what you mean by left and right, do you mean so they can spin in one direction, and the opposite one? For that you just wire in a double pole double throw switch. Again, the teacher will know.
As for voltage, most motors should run fine on 6V, but its no harm to have 9V, but I don't know about the RPM, sorry.

Hope I helped

Wolf07

yeah, double pole double throw switch thats what i meant by left/right...thanks for the help..

Nanaki

no worries =D
I really should try and get a chassis designed lol

kirving

This isn't probably the best place to ask, but does anybody have any experience in using solenoids. I was planning to use such as this to raise and lower the crane arm on my model. The problem with this is, I think it might move too fast, causing the crane arm to shoot up. Does anybody know if the speed of these are controlled by the amount of current passing through?

Nanaki

^ dodgy link.
solenoids move instantly so far I as I know, I don't think varying the current would change the speed, but I'm open to correction.

I've spend about 3 horus trying to get a fricking chassis that will actually work >_<
the mechanism's fine, I'm just having touble as to how to mount the racks, and attach the fork to them, but hopefully, my teacher should be able to help me, that's all I really have left to work out. And some dimensions, but I'll have to get those from the teacher.

Have many of you started making it yet?

kirving

I started the other day, although I haven't designed the cab completely, well I have, but without motor control, as i have to find a design that will fit. moving my crane arm up and down if the problem, and controlling the winch. Gearboxes are just too big!

Where are you ordering parts from? We have radionics, rapidonline, peats and maplin catalogues. Anywhere else I could look?

paudieclery

I dont mean to sound demeaning but are ye not losing sight of the marking schemes.Engineering as a basic subject.Look for where the marks are to be got.It isnt for having solenoids or amazing mechanisms.The main bulk of the marks are for it looking good and being logical.Good filing(include curves and circles,elipses if possible)choice of materials (eg red perspex,brass nd copper looks fantastic together) and display ur accuracy(good fittings,brazing,all bolts flush with the surface of your pieces) Last year i used a basic idea of a belt to shoot of the balls,it obviously didnt work but the project overall was very stylish and came together perfectley nd i came out with my A1..........Jst keep in mind where the marks are coming from:cool::cool:

Nanaki

I've more or less got my deisgn sorted, once I get a few more dimensions from my teacher, and get a small part of the lifting mechanism sorted. Then I can get started.
Don't know where we get out supplies, basically we tell the school what we need and they get it if they can.
The only thing we've to pay for is the motors, €20 each, because they've a gearbox built in, quite tidy. 30x55x31

phison

do you realy think simplicity is the way to go ? got the breif ages ago, only realy startin now , decided on a forklift, any ideas on how to steer it , without 10 extra parts !!!!???? im so skrewed !:(:(:(

nariek1

trust me lads, Paudie Clerys advise is 100% correct. Keep it SIMPLE! Make sure it fulfils the design brief insofar as its <300mm, on/off switch, is portable and has a lifting devise (which can actually be mechanical). It does not have to have a steering mechanism and trying to include one will only complicate the project. Spending time on the folder and espcially the theory will be much more valuable.

congo_90

Kevin Irving wrote: »

A fork-lift, or crane would be the most obvious answer. But functionality is only 10 marks, so even a teleporter (with wheels) could be accepted I think!

Also, whats the story the 300mm limit? What I mean is - if I have a part that can be extended, can that exceed the 300 mm limit, as long as its under 300mm when folded down?

**EDIT**
Hi, received briefs a while ago too. I am going for the teleporter too. Can't think how many parts it will be because i spent the last week just figuring out how to make the arm move up and extend. then return to its original postion. Also the workings of it. I've opted for so far: 3 motors:
1. to move arm up/down. using gears(tricky)
2. to extend/retract. Using a pulley system (equally tricky)
3.to drive the vehicle (may leave this one out to save weight etc).

I've also decided to keep it small but have a good long arm. I thought the size limit meant it could NOT exceed 300 regardless of the arm. My design is set so the arm at full extension does not go over this.

haven't worked on how to put all this together/ make it look somewhat decent and not just a pile of wires with 4 wheels and an arm lol

Also can the on/off switch be a two way? ie: on-off-on respectively.
If not then my whole design is going to the bin....

phison

i hope the on off switch can be a two way !! mine reverses the motor to bring the forks back down !!:p my hole class are convinced it needs steering , but im trusting you in that it dosent , and becaus i couldent realy be arsed maken one !:o:o
what makes good choice of materials ??

turgon

phison wrote: »

my hole class are convinced it needs steering , but im trusting you in that it dosent , and becaus i couldent realy be arsed maken one !:o:o

Ok the brief says (i quote!): "Be mobile to facilitate transportation between site locations". No offense but any one with a tiny bit of sense would realize that site locations aren't placed neatly in parallel lines. A bit of maneuvering is required! Or what happens if someone accidentally placed a concrete pylon in front of your truck. Unable to get around it you would be ****ed.

johnculloty

congo_90 wrote: »

**EDIT**
Hi, received briefs a while ago too. I am going for the teleporter too. Can't think how many parts it will be because i spent the last week just figuring out how to make the arm move up and extend. then return to its original postion. Also the workings of it. I've opted for so far: 3 motors:
1. to move arm up/down. using gears(tricky)
2. to extend/retract. Using a pulley system (equally tricky)
3.to drive the vehicle (may leave this one out to save weight etc).

I've also decided to keep it small but have a good long arm. I thought the size limit meant it could NOT exceed 300 regardless of the arm. My design is set so the arm at full extension does not go over this.

haven't worked on how to put all this together/ make it look somewhat decent and not just a pile of wires with 4 wheels and an arm lol

Also can the on/off switch be a two way? ie: on-off-on respectively.
If not then my whole design is going to the bin....

ok im also doing the prjoect and i have no clue how gears or anything work! please help? im thinking of using a worm gear to lift the fork up and down

congo_90

turgon wrote: »

Ok the brief says (i quote!): "Be mobile to facilitate transportation between site locations". No offense but any one with a tiny bit of sense would realize that site locations aren't placed neatly in parallel lines. A bit of maneuvering is required! Or what happens if someone accidentally placed a concrete pylon in front of your truck. Unable to get around it you would be ****ed.

there goes my whole design! does it definatly need to have a motor to drive it? nobody in my class has designed a steering sys for theirs. Also the teach said this isn't needed.

johnculloty wrote: »

ok im also doing the prjoect and i have no clue how gears or anything work! please help? im thinking of using a worm gear to lift the fork up and down

My design is using gears to move the boom-arm up/down (i'm also clueless about gears lol)
For extend retract there will be a a long screw type bar inside the first section of arm and attached to the second (extended one)
this is controlled via a pulley at the bottom of the whole arm. I have no skecthes on this computer so this is just something i worked up on MS paint

Hen-Roc

I'm making a Crane with a pulley system attached to a motor. Gear system attached to a motor for turning the crane. Motor and pulley system for the axel to move the crane (much like the JC Metalwork project we got in 2005)

kirving

The crane I'm making will be propellled by a motor, with a "dpdt center off switch, this allows reverse) It wont have steering. The motor will be mounted on the bottom of a box shaped chassis.

The trouble is, I don't know how I'm gonna fit the motor/ gearboxes for the crane arm or winch, so I might just use a worm gear and a manual crank. The gearboxes are just too big! I think that making it less electronic will make me lose masks, it may be too simple.

I'm gonna put a turn table in too, I'll need bearings for that.

Ideally what i need is very small motors, or actuators which go extremly slowly. Any idea's?

nariek1

If at all possible go 4 electronic method of lifting rather than manual. motors are best slowed down by use of worm-wheel and gear but checkout the Peats.ie website section on motors and u'll find a simple gear reducer as well as the clear-box motor which is a little cumbersome. A good method of lifting the boom is using a cam system attached to a motor to give up/down motion, use an exaggerated cam for greater height. Steering is not required! We got confirmation of that at a recent meeting. Best materials include a combination of black perspex+brass. But everything can work, aluminium is easy to work, is lightwieght and can be polished or spray painted up to look well. Consider vacuum forming the cab section if going the crane route but wooden mould will have 2 b spot on

stevengriffin1

im makin mine out of an old shoe box:eek:..................it has 5 gears;) in it and a rope :cool:

phison

wow you guys are realy saving my ass !! u have no idea how greatfull i am !
forlift, brass forks , brass guide rails, steel skrew allumimium chasie, 2 motors(one for the wheels ,the other for the skrew to lift the fork ) 2 swtches and a cute little seat :Don a blck perspes platform ! does it need a cab ?? and can motor go underneath the chassie ??? ive given up tryting with the steerig ! theory shudnt be a prob ! im so lost i didnt do metalwork for my jc !! im more woried about the 6hr practical!:eek:

stevengriffin1

Alvis wrote: »

FTW

my project

http://www.bebo.com/PhotoAlbumBig.jsp?MemberId=2541340893&PhotoAlbumId=6196665420&PhotoId=6310466657 :D:D

TheRenegade

I think 99% of the country are going for forklifts lol

How is everyone doing so far?

I think i should be all done in mid February

kirving

I'm making a mobile crane.

So far ive made the base(2 parts to it), threaded the axcels, and made most of the front cab.

Ive still gotta make 6 wheels, 2 cab sides, cab, 2 front "doors", counter weight, motor case, and wire like 6 lights, 2 motors, 5 switches, and assemble the entier thing(I havend drilled most of it). Ive also gotta make the gear system to raise and lower the arm, winch.

I'm quite slow doing practical, so hopefully I'll finish it!

turgon

Our class is getting an extension cas the teachers out. But its not like anyone works when we have a teacher!!!!!! They just walk around or listen to their mp3 players.....

Go mobile crane team!!!!!!!

SRFC90

anyone else keep putting off studyin any of the theory for engineering!!?

i havnt done anything yet!

kirving

Just wondering how peoples engineering projects are coming along? Ive still gotta make the wheels and winch mechanism! Only a 7 classes left beacuse of the mocks and midterm. They have to be finished by the 7th of March....

I'll post some pics up soon enough. Anyone wan't to upload some of theirs?


The pic doesn't include the boom extension, cab, perspex, lights, actuator or cable reel. But you get the idea!