Computer Science

Kinetic^

I'm considering doing this course next year.

Was hoping a few of the people who are in or who have done this course could provide info in relation to hours per week, workload, the good and the bad, what's the college like etc etc.

Thanks for the help.

Nehpets

Hello Kenny. I just started this year and going into week 3. So far so good.

My hours are 10am - 5pm mon, wed, thurs (except some mondays and thursdays I am off at 3 because no labs). 11pm - 1pm on fridays (changes to 2pm later in the year). 12pm - 5pm on wednesday but changes to 10am later in the year.

So.. busy enough but it's not a killer.

The college is nice enough, CS is mainly down the back. Not sure if you've been in Trinity before but all my lectures are in the Loyd Building which is nice (and has lockers) and some in the Musuem building. Freshers' week was ok - I think it would have worked better if it was after you got to know people (Like other colleges do).

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI

Workload's pretty light, except in Senior Freshman year, where you get a lot of not particularly difficult coursework to do. Don't except to be intellectually challenged in any sort of way for the majority of your classes.

The Lloyd building is where you'll have most (i.e. everything except Digital Logic which takes place in the beautiful Museum Building) of your lectures. Except to spend most of your hours in this underground dungeon with absolutely no natural light whatsoever (OK, this goes for the vast majority of lecture theatres, but I still find it a bit depressing).

The course has been progressively dumbed down over the years, so don't expect much of any kind of work load (or any kind of the good, interesting work, i.e. figuring stuff out and using your brain as opposed to mindlessly writing code...) They've taken Maths off the Junior Sophister course which has pissed me off extraordinarily. They've also removed Hardware Design as an option for Junior Sophister, which I was looking forward to a lot too. So basically I've got nothing to look forward to in my course for the year ahead. Great.
Apparently electrotechnology ran the whole year in Junior Freshman the year before I enrolled, they got rid of the second half of that unfortunately.


Still, I think it's a pretty decent course.

Boston

1) A huge number fail CS in the first two years.
2) The best CS people I've found are the ones that apply themselves in areas far beyond the course. That is to say, they use the course as an intro and guide, not the be all and end all of what they should know.

Fremen

1) A huge number fail CS in the first two years.
2) The best CS people I've found are the ones that apply themselves in areas far beyond the course. That is to say, they use the course as an intro and guide, not the be all and end all of what they should know.

Agreed. Start reading and don't stop until you graduate.

Crash

add in
www.theregister.co.uk
www.geekologie.com
www.gizmodo.com
www.xkcd.com

and you'll be fine.

JC 2K3

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI wrote: »

The course has been progressively dumbed down over the years, so don't expect much of any kind of work load (or any kind of the good, interesting work, i.e. figuring stuff out and using your brain as opposed to mindlessly writing code...)

Really? There've been no assignments so far, so no real workload yet, but Intro to Programming has been interesting enough so far and we've had to figure out algorithms by ourselves. Is this about to change?

Also, despite hearing that it was a joke and a waste of time before I started CS, I find Computers and Society to be a very interesting and worthwhile module.

So far, this is my assessment of each module:

1BA1: Mathematics - Slow moving and boring so far. Pity, because I love maths usually.
1BA2: Intro to Programming - Interesting module that looks like it could become challenging but enjoyable.
1BA3: Intro to Computing - Boring, but not hugely difficult so far.
1BA4: Digital Logic Design - I find this really interesting so far. Totally different to anything I've been taught before.
1BA5: Electrotechnology - It's Physics basically. Fairly quick moving but I like it that way.
1BA6: Computers and Society - A very interesting and necessary break from the technical aspects of computing. I look forward to this lecture.

Boston

Well there will always be an accusation of being dumbed down. I will sat the ICT course was merged into the mainstream CS course, which i don't think was a good idea. The ICT course was pretty much universally loathed by industry for producing bog standard code monkeys. If you find something is interesting, go to the library and take out books on the subject or research it online. The more skills you can add to your pro-folio the better.

NADA

Do you guys have vinny cahill for intro to programming?

Kinetic^

Great, thanks for the info. Sounds good. Will put it down on my shortlist anyway.

Boston

Alternative courses include maths and engineering for a strong computer related degree. Decide what you want to do and what suits you best.

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI

Boston wrote: »

Alternative courses include maths and engineering for a strong computer related degree. Decide what you want to do and what suits you best.

Every now and again I sort of wish I did Maths instead of CS...

NADA wrote: »

Do you guys have vinny cahill for intro to programming?

Yep, or rather, I did two years ago, and they do now.

Kinetic^

Boston wrote: »

Alternative courses include maths and engineering for a strong computer related degree. Decide what you want to do and what suits you best.

Yeah like programming was my main interest with some minor work in networking/graphics and a few other things covered too.

tolosenc

Have you considered CSLL?

</compulsory promotion of own course>

I'm a 1st year too, and agree with JC's comments, but I oly do 1BA1 and 1BA2 as part of my course. We get an extra 2h lab on Wednesdays, with the rest of the time studying in the Arts block. French, German or Irish are the language options, with 3, 2 and 1 taking each this year respectively. The linguistics is easy enough, 2 hours a week, and at the moment we share the class with every 1st year taking a language.

Hours per week: 16, plus DCLRS which is two hours in DCU twice a term and 6 other times throughout the year.

Kinetic^

Looking to avoid languages tbh.

Nehpets

boo to languages

Crash

if programming/network/graphics is your preference, do CS over doing engineering and ending up in comp engineering, or doing CSLL.

there will be zero networking work in most cases of the above except for CS - while comp engineers this year have no choice BUT to do graphics.

choices this year.

Nehpets

are you in your 4th year crash?

Fremen

Oh, a word of advice: It may sound like a nag, but if you're planning on boozing it up or whatever, make damn sure you get good grades at the end of each year. You'll be showing them to potential employers for the next five years, until you have some decent work experience behind you.

More and more employers ask to see an academic transcript, not just your final degree result. I got a first, but my transcript looks like ****e :mad:

Getting an internship at some stage wouldn't hurt either.

JC 2K3

I'm pretty good at applying myself when I need to. Getting good grades shouldn't be too much of a problem. I don't really see college as "freedom from studying ever again" after the LC like some people seem to.

Not that I'm not adopting a "Sex, Drugs, Rock N' Roll" attitude or anything. These next 4 years are gonna be great!

Kinetic^

Fremen wrote: »

Oh, a word of advice: It may sound like a nag, but if you're planning on boozing it up or whatever, make damn sure you get good grades at the end of each year. You'll be showing them to potential employers for the next five years, until you have some decent work experience behind you.

More and more employers ask to see an academic transcript, not just your final degree result. I got a first, but my transcript looks like ****e :mad:

Getting an internship at some stage wouldn't hurt either.

I'll be applying as a mature student, be 25 starting it. I've done my boozing already, so no fear of it happening during this.

Crash

Nehpets wrote: »

are you in your 4th year crash?

That I am.

Fremen wrote: »

Oh, a word of advice: It may sound like a nag, but if you're planning on boozing it up or whatever, make damn sure you get good grades at the end of each year. You'll be showing them to potential employers for the next five years, until you have some decent work experience behind you.

Yeah, my transcripts gonna look quite poor when I come out of college. relying on a couple of various different things I've done with companies to sort me out for a job after I graduate really.

Boston

çrash_000 wrote: »

if programming/network/graphics is your preference, do CS over doing engineering and ending up in comp engineering, or doing CSLL.

there will be zero networking work in most cases of the above except for CS - while comp engineers this year have no choice BUT to do graphics.

I fundamentally disagree with the above. You'll learn programming extensively for the full four years. You will not be taught as many languages as the CS lads, but you will be taught the fundamentals of software engineering, which you can then apply to varing degrees to other subjects. Theres also courses in computer networking and distributed systems is a big focus. Graphics related courses can be taken from third year on. The reason why engineering is not really suitable for true CS heads, and vice versa, is due to the extremely broad nature of the first two years.

JC 2K3 : The problem is that the CS course is actually too easy. Its too easy to slide a pass on sweet FA work. When you 'know' theres little to no chance of failing a subject, its hard to get that 'fear' factor a lot of people need to push themselves for the higher grades.

Crash

Boston: notice I never made a comment on the programming part of the BAI course - I agree with you on that one.

However, the distributed stuff that engineers seem to have been taught, now that I share classes with them, is really really poor. Bad grasp of concurrency and various other things like that, and nowhere near as in depth as CS do it.

also I clearly state that engineers have graphics related course - and in fact have no CHOICE in the matter.

Next time before deciding to fundementally disagree with my post, ensure you read the fundementals of it first

Boston

You said "if programming/network/graphics is your preference, do CS over doing engineering" That implies that these topic arn't covered in great detail with engineers. That is not the case. As for distributed systems courses, the courses provided to the CS and engineers are meant to be pretty much identical. You may argue that the quality of the lecture/s for cs is higher then for engineering, but the courses are meant to be the same.

Xhristy

This post has been deleted.

JC 2K3

Boston wrote: »

JC 2K3 : The problem is that the CS course is actually too easy. Its too easy to slide a pass on sweet FA work. When you 'know' theres little to no chance of failing a subject, its hard to get that 'fear' factor a lot of people need to push themselves for the higher grades.

Fair point, but I want all firsts

tolosenc

Nehpets wrote: »

boo to languages

You're lucky I don't know which Stephen you are. Yet.

conzy

Im also thinking of doing Comp Science next year...

Its between DIT and TCD...

Any other words of advice / warning?

Do you learn C++ ? has anyone done the AI module?...

Crash

Boston wrote: »

As for distributed systems courses, the courses provided to the CS and engineers are meant to be pretty much identical. You may argue that the quality of the lecture/s for cs is higher then for engineering, but the courses are meant to be the same.

Eh, no they aren't. At all. Sorry Joe, you didnt do the course to that point, and I had long conversations with Shane and various comp engineers that do the same course as me.

We had two semester courses, covering different aspects of concurrency, as well as hardware concurrency which for C/D or D stream engineers is cramped into a smaller amount of time. It cannot and IS not the same. Please stop arguing over points you actually don't know about when you have little actual personal experience concerning it.

Xhristy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

The first. the focus is largely on linguistics and the language.

conzymaher wrote: »

Do you learn C++ ? has anyone done the AI module?...

Yes, in second year.

the breakdown, language wise is:
1st year: java/assembly
2nd year: java/c/c++/vhdl(not really a language :P)/eiffel
3rd year: mostly c/c++ as well as prolog
4th year: mostly whatever you want.

as for AI: I did the first part of the course in 3rd year - which is symbolic programming in prolog. To be honest, it wasnt for me. some continued on to do the second half of the course option, which was AI, and 1 or 2 have continued on to do AI in final year.

word of warning: AI is nowhere near as fun as it sounds. at all.

Boston

çrash_000 wrote: »

Eh, no they aren't. At all. Sorry Joe, you didnt do the course to that point, and I had long conversations with Shane and various comp engineers that do the same course as me.

We had two semester courses, covering different aspects of concurrency, as well as hardware concurrency which for C/D or D stream engineers is cramped into a smaller amount of time. It cannot and IS not the same. Please stop arguing over points you actually don't know about when you have little actual personal experience concerning it.

I did distributed systems courses in third and forth year for two semesters each year, so In total I've done 4 semesters of distributed systems. We also did hardware currency with Jeremy jones, a course which is largely identical to that provided to third year CS. Shane, didn't do distributed systems past third year and afaik never did the hardware currency course. The thing you should keep in mind is the distinction between 'computer' and 'computer and electronics', those doing the latter had considerable more choice. For example Shane did graphics rather then distributed systems. The reason I know the courses are nearly identical in content is due to the fact I used CS notes to revise, the lecturers often used noted with labels like 3BA whatever, and finally its very comment. So yes I have compared and contrasted the material though to cs and engineers. Have you done more then have a drunken conversation over pints with someone?

edit a lot of the notes where from Johnathan dukes, and as you can see he used to teach third and forth year engineers distributed systems. He has since been replaced by stephen barret.

tolosenc

Xhristy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

There are seven modules of CS in 1st year, of which CSLL takes 2 (Maths and Introduction to Programming). We get a 2 hour lab period which regular CS don't. I do 5 hours of French (tutorials included) and 2 hours of linguistics. 9 hours of computers including tuts. There is also a Computational Linguistics Seminar on Fridays which you must attend twice a term and 6 other times throughout the year.

Crash

Boston wrote: »

Have you done more then have a drunken conversation over pints with someone?

Surprisingly enough, I have these crazy things called lectures with C/D and D stream engineers, and AMAZINGLY, I've even had conversations with them. You tend to make a lot of assumptions boston.

Boston

So lets back up here for a second, what claim exactly are you making crash?

The course I did in third year was nearly identical to 3ICT3 when it existed.

How many courses do you share with engineers?

Crash

At the moment, 2 of my options and one of my core courses are shared with engineers.

Boston

and You're claiming what exactly? That engineers do distributed systems to a lower level then CS? I presume since you're making claims one of the courses you do is the fourth year distributed systems course.

conzy

A distributed computing duel to the death will settle this!

First to 23042903840239842039842304820394823094820498230498234 Folding@Home work units wins!

And..... go!

Thanks for the info, keep it coming!

Crash

What i'm pointing out is that in some cases the background to the final year level isn't up to the same spec, especially in the concurrency section.

edit: and yes, I am doing the fourth year DS course. Its a core course for CS.

ixoy

çrash_000 wrote: »

edit: and yes, I am doing the fourth year DS course. Its a core course for CS.

DS is now a core course? It was optional when I took it in 4th year, alongside advanced databases. Is Vinnie Cahill and BT still teaching it?

Crash

DS got shifted to being a core course due to various stuff - all a bit ridiculuous, but meh.
Being taught by Stephen Barrett this year.

at the mo final year CS is as follows:

Human Factors: design decisions etc.
Distributed Systems
and 3 of the following:
AI
Computer Vision
Computer Graphics
Mobile Communications
Fuzzy Logic
Internet and Intelligent Applications
Integrated Systems design.

Boston

çrash_000 wrote: »

What i'm pointing out is that in some cases the background to the final year level isn't up to the same spec, especially in the concurrency section.

edit: and yes, I am doing the fourth year DS course. Its a core course for CS.

No, what you did was make an assumption that Shane did the same courses I did. I did four semesters of Distributed systems and a course in hardware currency. What I did is nearly completely the same as what a CS student would do, right down to the lectures slides and notes being the exact same. There was no "cramming of material".

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI

Boston wrote: »

JC 2K3 : The problem is that the CS course is actually too easy. Its too easy to slide a pass on sweet FA work. When you 'know' theres little to no chance of failing a subject, its hard to get that 'fear' factor a lot of people need to push themselves for the higher grades.

This is absolutely unequivocally the case. There are so many bored CS students who just don't give a **** and don't bother apply themselves because the course is so easy. As it stands the first two years could almost be compressed into one, and there's plenty of stuff that's taught in Senior Freshman year that should be taught in Junior Freshman year. CS has a ridiculous number of drop-outs and people doing repeat exams.

And at the end of it all, someone looks at the statistics of the course and says "look at all these people, failing, repeating exams, getting poor grades, not finishing coursework, asking for extensions, the course must be too hard" so they make it easier Again, and the cycle continues ad nauseam till half the class of 2012 fail their exams in shoelace tying. Ugh.

Nehpets

Not applying yourself because a course is too easy seems like a bit of a joke excuse to be honest. If it was that easy no effort should be needed so no exams would be failed.

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI

Are you calling me a liar?

Crash

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI wrote: »

Are you calling me a liar?

Cop on mark.

Boston

Nehpets wrote: »

Not applying yourself because a course is too easy seems like a bit of a joke excuse to be honest. If it was that easy no effort should be needed so no exams would be failed.

Reality is that a subject matter needs to be engaging for people to take an interest in it. Too ease to be arsed with is a common complaint. No matter how intelligent you are, if you've not been to lectures (or at least got someones notes) on a subject, and you walk into an exam, you're going to fall down miserably.

Nehpets

Boston wrote: »

Reality is that a subject matter needs to be engaging for people to take an interest in it. Too ease to be arsed with is a common complaint. No matter how intelligent you are, if you've not been to lectures (or at least got someones notes) on a subject, and you walk into an exam, you're going to fall down miserably.

meh, an intelligent person wouldn't walk into an exam unprepared under normal circumstances - but I guess that's debatable. Obviously I haven't done much of the course so I was just giving a comment.

and yeah mark, cop on (no idea what that comment was about )

Boston

Its what i've seen happen.

ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI

Nehpets wrote: »

meh, an intelligent person wouldn't walk into an exam unprepared under normal circumstances - but I guess that's debatable. Obviously I haven't done much of the course so I was just giving a comment.

and yeah mark, cop on (no idea what that comment was about )

You're making the (incorrect) assumption that Computer Science has many intelligent people.

Crash

See, this is one of those points that gets iffy - CS has a lot of intelligent people - it lacks a lot of clever people.

the difference being there are a lot of people who can code to an extent (tbh joe, I think its changed from the year or two you would have come across a lot, for instance I would rank the year below me and the year below that as much better at studying and in some cases better than coding than my year, but less employable both in industry and academia than my year. A number of the people in years below me who I would believe could go far have made the mistaken decision of what i'd refer to as working hard, instead of working smart. And to be honest you can spot it quite easily in CS, as those who have realised that the way to get ahead, especially in the IT field in all areas, is to manage both coursework as well as coming across as personable to those who are in a position to decide their future.

Unfortunately its a skill that hasn't, in most cases, carried on, and one i'd advise any comp sci student to work on as hard as possible.

JC 2K3

I think many people who could be very good at CS or Engineering go for courses like Law or Business, which sorta guarantee a high paying job with arguably less work.

Though, crash, I think you'll recognise that there are generally very few people who know how to work smart in any course. This is something I've noticed during my time in both primary and secondary school. I mean, loads of people in my year worked really hard for their LC and came out with 400-550 points. However, most of the smaller amount of people who got above 550 didn't work nearly as hard as these people, they just knew what was required and worked smart. Apart from my point above, I can't see how CS would necessarily have any less of these type of smart workers than any other course.