I am in Germany

mick.fr

For god sake, we are funcking ripped off in Ireland man.
530D with all the options, 480 euros a month.
Leasing is even cheaper here.
Couple of months ago I have asked LeasePlan for a 520d, 1500 euro a month.
Here a 325i coupe in leasing is not even 300 quids a month.

I am sick guys

Anyway I have been driven on the motorway (ahah) and I will be posting video(s) soon :-)

Andrewf20

Yeah, I was in Joe Duffys over the last few days and price of the stuff in there is ridciulous. Paying 40 grand for a new bottom of the range 3 series seems a bit mad.

littlejukka

Andrewf20 wrote: »

Paying 40 grand for a new bottom of the range 3 series seems a bit mad.

shush. you get a whole 120bhp for that money. supercar beating performance for mere buttons, i'm sure.

the factors influencing these prices are the idiots with blank cheque books wallowing in positive property equity in the last few years and the greed of the dealers. car salesmen who started in the last 10 years or so have no idea how to sell a car. it's been "What car? Yes? What colour? Sign here. Thanks" for ages. motor and property sales agents always feel the bite first when the money becomes a bit tight in an economy.

junkyard

There's no doubt we're being ripped-off at every turn in this country when it comes to everything, not just cars. First you have VRT when you buy the car, then you have rip-off road tax, then your ripped-off with the price of petrol and insurance and the final insult is the state of the roads. I really ask my self sometimes why I bother staying in the country at all tbh, it really doesn't have that much to offer when you see the muppets who run the place squander all our taxes. And the sad thing is they do the same in every other aspect i.e. housing and every other way they extort taxes:(

unkel

Merde alors!

Andrewf20

It sure doesnt help. 30k for 116i! What a joke.I posted this on another forum recently but here I go again, you can pick up a new 328i for around 25k euro in the states. (although the USA engines are not as good apparently, but its still waaaay cheaper than here.)

mick.fr

Andrewf20 wrote: »

you can pick up a new 328i for around 25k euro in the states. (although the USA engines are not as good apparently, but its still waaaay cheaper than here.)

US bimmer's engines are the same than in Europe this is just that the US has a harder position on car emissions than the EU. For instance they have an extra Ozone filter in the radiator, and consequently the car is a bit less poweful.
My 325i for instance is a US import and it is supposed to be 184HP instead of 192 compared to the EU ones.

mick.fr

junkyard wrote: »

, then your ripped-off with the price of petrol

Petrol in Ireland is one of the cheapest in the EU actually.
I am in Germany atm man, I can tell you this is expensive : 1.35-1.45 euro a liter.

Anan1

mick.fr wrote: »

For god sake, we are funcking ripped off in Ireland man.
530D with all the options, 480 euros a month.
Leasing is even cheaper here.
Couple of months ago I have asked LeasePlan for a 520d, 1500 euro a month.

Common sense should tell you that it does not cost three times more for the same lease on a 520d here as it does in Germany for a 530d.

mick.fr

Anan1 wrote: »

Common sense should tell you that it does not cost three times more for the same lease on a 520d here as it does in Germany for a 530d.

Common sense have a look yourself in Germany
280 euros a months for a 520D on leasing here.
Get a quote from LeasePlan online.

mick.fr

There you go guys
http://www.dailymotion.com/Fooljam/video/5479456

Anan1

mick.fr wrote: »

Common sense have a look yourself in Germany
280 euros a months for a 520D on leasing here.
Get a quote from LeasePlan online.

No offence, but it's not that simple. What are the terms of the €280/month lease?

mick.fr

Anan1 wrote: »

No offence, but it's not that simple. What are the terms of the €280/month lease?

Yes good point, 3 years like I had with LeasePlan as far I remember.
But I think you have to give 5k to BMW lease right away, thing you do not have to do with LeasePlan. But still...

Anan1

3 years from LeasePlan at €1,500/month is €54,000 over 3 years, sounds a bit excessive!;)

mick.fr

Anan1 wrote: »

3 years from LeasePlan at €1,500/month is €54,000 over 3 years, sounds a bit excessive!;)

Get a quote man, I am not making prices here :-)

Wishbone Ash

junkyard wrote: »

then your ripped-off with the price of petrol.......

The monthly truck magazines usually publish an average price list of diesel throughout Europe. Ireland is always near the bottom - (as in the cheapest). I'm sure petrol prices compare equally.

junkyard wrote:

....the final insult is the state of the roads.......when you see the muppets who run the place squander all our taxes....

I thought you told us several times that you don't pay motor tax. That's why it's expensive for those of us who do!

copacetic

Anan1 wrote: »

3 years from LeasePlan at €1,500/month is €54,000 over 3 years, sounds a bit excessive!;)

as he says, check them out online instead of doubting him without actually checking the prices. they include service etc and are very expensive.

Anan1

copacetic wrote: »

as he says, check them out online instead of doubting him without actually checking the prices. they include service etc and are very expensive.

5yrs/100,000kms service costs €1,000. Really, you'd want to be insane to pay €54,000 for 3 years with a 520d. In any case, my point is that the LeasePlan quote and the German quote are not even close to being comparable.

E92

mick.fr wrote: »

US bimmer's engines are the same than in Europe this is just that the US has a harder position on car emissions than the EU. For instance they have an extra Ozone filter in the radiator, and consequently the car is a bit less poweful.
My 325i for instance is a US import and it is supposed to be 184HP instead of 192 compared to the EU ones.

Thats not strictly true.

US BMWs were always quite different to Euro BMWs.

The E12 5 series which came out in 1972 was predominantly sold with carbs in Europe. There were a few models like the 533i with fuel injection and the M535i which were quite similar for Euro and US.

All newly introduced US BMWs sold since the E12s debut have been fuel injected. BMW only had an all fuel injected lineup for Europe since I think it was 1988(whenever the E30 got its facelift which involved a new range of 4 pots, all of which had fuel injection).

The US BMWs of the 70s suffered terrible problems with the catalytic convertor, there were no such problems in Europe because we didn't have catalytic convertors at the time.

US BMWs often had different engine and spec combos; US BMWs were always of a far better spec than ours, going back to the E12, this had leather and air conditioning as standard for the US, we didn't even get PAS or central locking on some E12s! The US got bigger engines too, but we could have them if we wanted.

US BMWs upto the introduction of the E34 5 series in 1988 had different bumpers too. They had "diving board" bumpers, which were fitted because US rules said that bumpers can't deform at speeds of less than 5 mph. They are big ugly yokes, ands unlike Euro bumpers aren't flush with the car. There were other cosmetic differences, but these were mainly down to legal requirements, like side marker lights(as US legal requirement) which aren't really important too.

Some of the engines were completely different, like the US E36 M3, which had 240 bhp, and the Euro M3 which had 286 bhp minimum.

From the early 90s to last year the main differnces between Euro and US BMWs were cosmetic, such as the marker lights on the headlights, and the US got a more limited engine choice than we did and more goodies as standard(thopugh the gap was much smaller than before).

Today, a good few Euro and US BMWs are once again quite different, because BMW in general use different engines for the US market. With the introduction of the new direct injection petrol engines to Europe, BMW has decided not to bring them to the US and other countries like Austrailia.

The reason is because the quality of the fuels sold there is not of high enough standard, and direct injection engines need a very high standard of fuel quality, and they also need low sulphur fuel.

So there is a 328i, a 528i, a 535i for instance. We can't get them.

The 328i and 528i are as far as I know the same as the 330i and 530i from the older generation(E46 and E39 respectively) of 3 and 5 series. So they are a completely different engine to whats found in either the 355i/525i and 330i/530i in europe.

As for why BMW decided that the US is somehow more deserving of that 3 litre straight 6 twin turbo as found in the 335i and 135i for its US 5 series(the 535i there has the same engine as our 335i and 135i), I don't know why that is the case, because the 540i(which incidentally has the same bhp but less torque than the US 535i) is still on sale here, and the 550i for the US is the same as our 550i.(and the 540i and 550i are basically the same engine apart from the fact that one is a 4.8 and the other is a 4.0).

Edit: I see you were referring to engines, my apologies, I thought it was the whole car, but the engines were in some cases different too, as I have described.

junkyard

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The monthly truck magazines usually publish an average price list of diesel throughout Europe. Ireland is always near the bottom - (as in the cheapest). I'm sure petrol prices compare equally.

I thought you told us several times that you don't pay motor tax. That's why it's expensive for those of us who do!

Even though Ireland might be the cheapest place to buy fuel it's the percentage that's tax is excessive in my view. Sorry to burst your bubble but I do pay my road tax, I have trade plates and use them from car to car, it's just I don't tax them all individually with the exception of one.
It's not just motor taxes, look at the ripp-off in the housing sector.

woop

at least in germany there are incentives put in place by the government to use other types of fuel if you want, veg oil, bio ethanol etc. is much more popular there, sure half the kits for cnverting diesels to biodiesel come from germany

Guy:Incognito

copacetic wrote: »

as he says, check them out online instead of doubting him without actually checking the prices. they include service etc and are very expensive.

As Anan said though, youd want to be insane. Whats a 520d start at? €55k ish? Soeven without a discount you'll only have to pay €1k more to own a €35-€40k car at the end of the 3 years. I dont think even 3 whole years of serviceing etc is going to make me spend €40k extra of my own money. Sure you could keep a mechanic in the back seat 5 days a week for less than that,

mick.fr

Anan1 wrote: »

5yrs/100,000kms service costs €1,000. Really, you'd want to be insane to pay €54,000 for 3 years with a 520d. In any case, my point is that the LeasePlan quote and the German quote are not even close to being comparable.

Yep but I do not know where you can get a lease for 5 years. Maybe in Zimbabwe
Example at BMW Ireland, you can get a 520d for 900 a months in leasing for 3years and you have to pay 5k straight.

mick.fr

E92 wrote: »

Thats not strictly true.

US BMWs were always quite different to Euro BMWs.

The E12 5 series which came out in 1972 ....

Well as a matter of fact my bimmer is a M54B25 engine (Or M56 if you want) and this is the same as you can find in europe.
BMW tends to simplify the production of their car and align them across markets for production's cost reasons.
Your reference is a bit outdated (1972)...3 series has been introduced in 1975.

As I said the main difference between my 2004 325i and the EU ones is that I have an extra ozone filter fitted into my radiator which makes my car a bit less powerful (184 HP instead of 192) but injectors/etc are the same.

And regrading the 328i, 528i, I do not know where you have seen we can't get them in Europe. There always have been those cars in EU and the US since 1991.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_3_Series

kmick

Mick.fr how long are you in Germany for. Would you think of buying something since it is so cheap and making a large profit with it in ireland at the end of 6 months.

mick.fr

kmick wrote: »

Mick.fr how long are you in Germany for. Would you think of buying something since it is so cheap and making a large profit with it in ireland at the end of 6 months.

I am living in Dublin, so not sure about the 6 months thing. I am just working for a couple of weeks in Germany.
I am here for at least 2 weeks from today and I will come back to Dublin for 2 weeks.
Then I will go back again for 2-3 weeks yeah.

Why not yeah but I would not have the means of getting a new one/used one as I just spent my savings of my 325i.

If you have an idea, feel free to share it with me :-)

peasant

mick.fr wrote: »

If you have an idea, feel free to share it with me :-)

Bring in a nice motorhome
(once the unladen weight is over 3 tons, VRT is only 50 euro ...so no problem. Plus people don't seem to mind buying LHD motorhomes)

prospect

Pay the income tax and get back to us. At least you have the choice of being ripped of over here, if you want to work in most european countries, you are ripped off before you even get your pay-slip.

BTW, I am not advocating VRT, but try looking at the bigger picture before jumping to dramatic conclusions.

mick.fr

peasant wrote: »

Bring in a nice motorhome
(once the unladen weight is over 3 tons, VRT is only 50 euro ...so no problem. Plus people don't seem to mind buying LHD motorhomes)

Or I could bring a bimmer with a double V12 engine, might be over 3 tonnes ?

mick.fr

prospect wrote: »

Pay the income tax and get back to us. At least you have the choice of being ripped of over here, if you want to work in most european countries, you are ripped off before you even get your pay-slip.

BTW, I am not advocating VRT, but try looking at the bigger picture before jumping to dramatic conclusions.

Why would I pay over 20% income taxes outside Ireland ?
Life might be cheaper in Germany but income taxes is over 50%...(I think?).

DonJose

mick.fr wrote: »

Petrol in Ireland is one of the cheapest in the EU actually.
I am in Germany atm man, I can tell you this is expensive : 1.35-1.45 euro a liter.

Thats because the Germans have no VRT, so one way or the other you're gonna get taxed to f***. I'd rather pay 1.35 a liter and no VRT than 1.11 a liter and 30% VRT. The Government would see a rise in new cars sales if this was the case as I for one would upgrade more often if cars were 30% cheaper.

Anan1

mick.fr wrote: »

Anyway I have been driven on the motorway (ahah) and I will be posting video(s) soon :-)

Just watched it. I don't know which is worse, your driving or the fact that you seem to be proud of it.

Anan1

DonJose wrote: »

Thats because the Germans have no VRT, so one way or the other you're gonna get taxed to f***. I'd rather pay 1.35 a liter and no VRT than 1.11 a liter and 30% VRT. The Government would see a rise in new cars sales if this was the case as I for one would upgrade more often if cars were 30% cheaper.

I'd imagine a lot of people would. Thing is, is that what we want?

rebel.ranter

Anan1 wrote: »

Just watched it. I don't know which is worse, your driving or the fact that you seem to be proud of it.

But isn't it legal to drive whatever speed you want on certain Autobahns? He also said he was not driving, someone else was. I wasn't mad about the music & I thought the acceleration beyind 120kmph would be better.

Alun

rebel.ranter wrote: »

But isn't it legal to drive whatever speed you want on certain Autobahns? He also said he was not driving, someone else was. I wasn't mad about the music & I thought the acceleration beyind 120kmph would be better.

Well, whoever was driving, they were hogging the leftmost (overtaking) lane for most of that video, regardless of what speed they were doing, which although high by Irish standards, was pretty unremarkable by German ones. And as for the taste in "music", well ...

Anan1

rebel.ranter wrote: »

But isn't it legal to drive whatever speed you want on certain Autobahns? He also said he was not driving, someone else was. I wasn't mad about the music & I thought the acceleration beyind 120kmph would be better.

What did you think of the lane discipline?

prospect

mick.fr wrote: »

Why would I pay over 20% income taxes outside Ireland ?
Life might be cheaper in Germany but income taxes is over 50%...(I think?).

Thats my point, it is easy to cherry pick the information that suits. The fact is cars are cheaper in Germany, but they screw you in other ways. You need to look at the whole picture.

mick.fr

I was driving with one hand and holding the camera in the same time.
My car is limited to 130Mph (Factory limitation) so...
And plus when you are driving at that speed you stay on the left lane (Legal obligation) and Germany motorways have no legal limit (Unless stated otherwise) as some of you might be aware :-)

Alun

mick.fr wrote: »

I was driving with one hand and holding the camera in the same time.

What???????

And plus when you are driving at that speed you stay on the left lane (Legal obligation)...

What an absolute, unadulterated, misinformed, complete load of dogs dangly bits.

Tony Danza

Alun wrote: »

What an absolute, unadulterated, misinformed, complete load of dogs dangly bits.

I thought there's no speed limit on certain autobahns if you stay in the left most lane? I open to correction.

Anan1

mick.fr wrote: »

And plus when you are driving at that speed you stay on the left lane (Legal obligation)

Tony Danza wrote: »

I thought there's no speed limit on certain autobahns if you stay in the left most lane? I open to correction.

Send back your driving licenses, lads. Tell the authorities you're not bright enough to be in charge of a car.:D

peasant

The speed limit on an autobahn has nothing to do with what lane your in. It's either limited (as signposted on certain sections) or its not.

However, the "stay right unless you're overtaking" rule still applies ...so theoretically you should be doing your 300 km/h in the right hand lane (the so-called "slow lane") until the point when slower traffic neccesitates your move to the outside lane(s).

As that is a bit dangerous, most speedfreaks prefer to stay left all the time while zooming along.

They then are in a legal grey area: if there is no traffic to overtake, they shouldn't be in the outside lane and if there is, they probably shouldn't be driving past it at twice or three times its speed as this could be considered dangerous driving.

Alun

Tony Danza wrote: »

I thought there's no speed limit on certain autobahns if you stay in the left most lane? I open to correction.

On autobahns without an explicit sped limit you can drive as fast as you like, but there's absolutely no legal requirement to drive in the leftmost lane. On a two lane autobahn with a reasonable amount of traffic, and travelling at much higher speeds than the prevailing traffic you're probably likely to be spending a fair amount of time in the leftmost lane admittedly, but you're still supposed to pull over the rightmost lane when it's free. And remember, however fast you think you're driving, there'll always be someone, somewhere driving faster than you

mick.fr

You have to drive on the left lane when you are overtaking (in Germany and most of the EU countries) not, Ireland/UK as you know.
Because there was people in the right and middle lane, I do not see where the problem is.

mick.fr

Anan1 wrote: »

Send back your driving licenses, lads. Tell the authorities you're not bright enough to be in charge of a car.:D

Yes you are not allowed to overtake on the right lane here

Anan1

mick.fr wrote: »

You have to drive on the left lane when you are overtaking (in Germany and most of the EU countries) not, Ireland/UK as you know.
Because there was people in the right and middle lane, I do not see where the problem is.

We might swallow this if we hadn't read your previous posts or seen your video.;)

Alun

mick.fr wrote: »

You have to drive on the left lane when you are overtaking (in Germany and most of the EU countries) not, Ireland/UK as you know.

No sh!t.. I never knew that :rolleyes::rolleyes: Thanks for letting us know :rolleyes:

Because there was people in the right and middle lane, I do not see where the problem is.

They must have been driving invisible cars then, because I couldn't see them. You didn't appear to move from the leftmost lane once, although I didn't watch it all, it was too boring.

Tony Danza

Anan1 wrote: »

Send back your driving licenses, lads. Tell the authorities you're not bright enough to be in charge of a car.:D

Jesus, this is a forum where you can ask a question about the laws of a country that I've never been too right???

Guy:Incognito

DonJose wrote: »

Thats because the Germans have no VRT, so one way or the other you're gonna get taxed to f***. I'd rather pay 1.35 a liter and no VRT than 1.11 a liter and 30% VRT. The Government would see a rise in new cars sales if this was the case as I for one would upgrade more often if cars were 30% cheaper.

But you would also be paying more income tax so taking home less money to spend on a cheaper car. It's all swings and roundabouts and works out to be much of a muchness in the end.

Guy:Incognito

mick.fr wrote: »

You have to drive on the left lane when you are overtaking (in Germany and most of the EU countries) not, Ireland/UK as you know.
Because there was people in the right and middle lane, I do not see where the problem is.

The problem you say? How about we start with this piece of idiocy:

mick.fr wrote: »

I was driving with one hand and holding the camera in the same time.

Anan1

Tony Danza wrote: »

Jesus, this is a forum where you can ask a question about the laws of a country that I've never been too right???

Of course it is. At the same time, I do think that particular one was inviting a bit of ribbing! If it's any help to you, it was mainly mick.fr I was laughing at, rather than your good self.:)