Pairc Ui Caoimh - 60000 all seater stadium!

davmi

Reports todays that Pairc Ui Caoimh is being redeveloped. Would be a great achievement for gaa to have 2 world class stadiums - both bigger than the redeveloped Lansdowne Road! and will prob be finished before it too..

D. Coughlan

davmi wrote: »

Reports todays that Pairc Ui Caoimh is being redeveloped. Would be a great achievement for gaa to have 2 world class stadiums - both bigger than the redeveloped Lansdowne Road! and will prob be finished before it too..

I would be very surprised if Pairc Ui Caoimh was done before Lansdowne. There is a lot more steps to go before they can even think about planning permission. Also, there is already oppisition to the plan, with some people raising the question of how often the stadium would be full, claiming that it is a waist of resources.

This is simply not true, the current stadium is a joke and baldly needs a make over. When completed more big games will go there and it would be useful for concert's too. It's needed as the centre of the whole docklands development, and would be brillant econmically for Cork.

Let's just hope they can get on with it, these things can tend to drag on for far too long.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Daysha

All seater??!!?? Am I right in saying Ireland have never had a major all seater stadium? Old Lansdowne? Nope. Old and new Croker? nope

Mossy Monk

Wow, how much would that cost? Economically it doesn't make any sense.

K-9

With Munster Finals being shared around 4 grounds it makes it difficult to justify the expense without bringing concerts and other sports into it.

How many where at the Cork county final?

It's something the GAA has to address.Grounds of 30/40,000 capacity being built throughout the country and being very rarely used. Why not build 15/20,000 capacity grounds of a higher standard.

Flukey

Once we get past early July, nearly all major games are in Croke Park (which suits me fine) because very few other grounds can hold the crowds. If you remember, not so long ago we had all our Cork contributors complaining about having to travel to Dublin so often. This would reduce that need to travel. You could have an All-Ireland semi-final in that new stadium. We've also had the scenario of Ulster Finals being played in Croke Park due to lack of capacity in Clones. A large stadium is needed there, like the proposed Maze one, or some other one. So several bigger grounds could work and support other events, like concerts. I was never in Pairc Ui Chaoimh, but from what I've seen on TV, it does look like it could do with renovation or a completely new stadium. I think this is a good idea.

rebs23

There is a definite need in Munster for an all seater with a capacity of 60,000.
Concerts would be used to help finance it as in the past Michael Jackson, Prince, Oasis, etc so I honestly don't believe Financing will be an issue. It will also probably attract some 1/4 finals and semi finals.
The current Pairc is going to fall down pretty soon if it is not redeveloped. Personally I think it is dangerous in its current state (cracks in the concrete, seating too close together, etc) and lets remember that for the first 15 years of its life it's capacity was 60,000.
It has paid for itself long ago and this has been in the pipeline for a long time. The City Council have CPO'd the Showgrounds so its all systems go at this stage and with permission being sought for the Hotels and Concert Venue (capacity of 8,000) next door this will be the icing on the cake for the Docklands.

Mushy

Yes the stadium is in need of a re-development, but seriously, it'd be a bit of a waste to make it 60,000 all-seater. They have too many big stadiums down in Munster, that get filled about once a year. SS with 50,000, GG with same, chances of Clare moving out of Ennis, Kerry aswell. Sure Semple has just had a bit of a going over, do they need another massive stadium down there? And if your talking about concerts, bring back ?Trip to Tipp:D

davmi

While I agree there are a lot of big stadiums in munster already, i think the idea behind this is to build a world class stadium, fully seated with and a roof all around im sure. I think we could def do with 3 world class stadiums in this country, look at Australia only about 20 million ppl n how many stadiums?, i can name about 5 massive ones off the top of head n iv seen a few others whose names i cant think of! the gaa need to get away from terracing altogether on regiona; grounds n concentrate on all seater stadiums of about 30000. although i think pumping money into the gg a few years ago was a mistake, its hardly ever used, it would've been more beneficial to do Pearce stadium in Galway properly! about a 40000 all seater would be grand for connaught.

Mushy

davmi wrote: »

While I agree there are a lot of big stadiums in munster already, i think the idea behind this is to build a world class stadium, fully seated with and a roof all around im sure. I think we could def do with 3 world class stadiums in this country, look at Australia only about 20 million ppl n how many stadiums?, i can name about 5 massive ones off the top of head n iv seen a few others whose names i cant think of! the gaa need to get away from terracing altogether on regiona; grounds n concentrate on all seater stadiums of about 30000. although i think pumping money into the gg a few years ago was a mistake, its hardly ever used, it would've been more beneficial to do Pearce stadium in Galway properly! about a 40000 all seater would be grand for connaught.

Exactly, that size(line in bold) would be perfect. Also agree with what you said regarding Galway/Connaught.

Erin Go Brath

A 60,000 state of the art seater stadium in Cork. I don't think theres a need tbh. Croker already caters for the QF's onwards in both codes. Don't see why that should change. They would only be able to fill it maybe once or twice a year. If it did get Munster finals etc, that'd be taking it away from Thurles and GG.

I'm in favour of the stadium if it can be used for other codes, and concerts etc in order to make it viable. Otherwise its just going to be a waste.

OhNoYouDidn't

The day after Kerry announce plans, Cork announce bigger ones.... :rolleyes:

Most interesting aspect about this to me is that the council are going to do a CPO of the Munster Showgrounds and make that available to the GAA. This is announced, with no sense of irony, on the day the GAA take the South Dublin Council to court claiming its illegal for the state to provide land to one sport only. Its illegal for the FAI to make a deal with a council, but tip top news when the GAA do the same

Rank hypocricy or simply a lack of any coherent strategy on stadia?

rebs23

You are all missing the point that Cork has always had a 60,000 capacity venue. It's been only relatively recently that capacity has been reduced to 45,000 for safety reasons. Its being redeveloped, financing it won't be a problem, the land around the ground in the showgrounds has been cpo'd by the council due to the derelict state the previous tenants left it in, so why all the negativity? Handing a small portion of it over to the GAA to facilitate development on it so that it doesn't remain derelict is a diff scenario than the Tallaght debacle.
Anyway a county with a pop of 500,000 easily requires a 60,000 venue and will give the country another top quality venue outside of Dublin. Anyway its going ahead.
As for catering for 1/4 finals, etc with the changing championship format there will be a need for a facilty like this in Munster.

Marse

Is this all rumour or is there any of this confirmed ?

OhNoYouDidn't

rebs23 wrote: »

Handing a small portion of it over to the GAA to facilitate development on it so that it doesn't remain derelict is a diff scenario than the Tallaght debacle.

I'm afraid not. If the GAA are trying to prove it is illegal for SDCC to do a deal with Rovers over land, they cannot with a straight face accept land from Cork Council. Are they going to apply the same principal they are demanding be applied in Tallaght and make Pairc Ui Caoimh multi sport?

Besides, surely a CPO cannot be used to take land from one sports body and give it to another?

If TD win, the FAI lawyers will go to town on this.

davmi

if theyre only been given land by the council, thats completly different than actually building a stadium for someone! In Tallaght the council are building a community stadium, and the argument is it doesnt serve the whole community if its too small for gaa games. The GAA would have no problem if Rovers were given some land and to allow them build their own stadium. Im not fully aware of the situation in Cork but if their only been given land then there can be no complaints.

Nalced_irl

This would be great if it goes ahead. There was talk of the GAA making a Croker style stadium in each provence a few years back, this could be the start of that i hope. I would say it will be used alot with games that usually go to Croker being played there instead.

The TD/Rovers thing bores me to death so im not gonna bother getting into that again......for now

lukin

If it ever gets the go-ahead it will take a very long time before it is finished I am sure. Remember how long Croker took to re-develop? Although I admit that the GAA were hampered in that they had to make the stadium available for games throughout it's redevelopment. Pairc Ui Chaoimh could be done quicker if they just closed the whole place down like the IRFU did with Landsdowne but then that would deprive the Cork County Board of revenue due to no Munster Finals etc.

P_1

lukin wrote: »

If it ever gets the go-ahead it will take a very long time before it is finished I am sure. Remember how long Croker took to re-develop? Although I admit that the GAA were hampered in that they had to make the stadium available for games throughout it's redevelopment. Pairc Ui Chaoimh could be done quicker if they just closed the whole place down like the IRFU did with Landsdowne but then that would deprive the Cork County Board of revenue due to no Munster Finals etc.

Maybe a compromise could be arranged with the IRFU WRT Musgrave Park, or maybe that would be much too small.

Slightly OT but this talk of new stadia has got me thinking.
Around 2012 we will have a host of brand new shiny stadia (Landsdownse, Croker, Pairc Ui C, Thomand, Donneybrook, Semple spring to mind)
Maybe we should think about trying to host some sort of major tournament (RWC, European Championships spring to mind)
Given the current talk of economic downturn maybe the hosting of such a major tournament could provide a jolt into the arm into our economy.

Personally I think the combined use of all the stadia in this country would benefit all

Opinions people?

Stupido

Any news on this?

blackbelt

Dear God,please let the developers know that every spectator is not 4 foot 3.Pairc Ui Chaoimh is the most uncomfortable stadium I have ever sat in and is in the middle of nowhere in a valley and takes 20 minutes to walk through an industrial estate from the city.

Otherwise,the stadium is ok.Nice big pitch.It would probably be nicer to stand in the terrace on a warm sunny day.So if/when this re-development takes place,lets pray for more leg room please.

homerjay2005

the biggest thread bump ever im thinking!!

errm,id say the last thing on the minds of cork gaa is extending the stadium. if the buckos dont sort themselves out, they will be selling it and not building it up. you wont get 600 in there let alone sell out 60,000 with the current goings on.

Gingy

This is one of the most ridiculous things that I've heard in a while. There is absolutely no need for a 60,000 seater stadium in Cork. At the Munster Football Final last year, there were 22,000 people at it. There is no justification for this new Stadium at all.

I suppose the Cork county board are saving a lot of money on not having to employ someone to cut Donal Óg's sandwiches in triangles any more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why don't the GAA pump money into infrastructure on the grassroots rather than building these oversized stadia. Even if they insist on building new stadiums, why don't they do up Clones because Ulster needs it a lot more than Munster!

An Citeog

Gingy wrote: »

This is one of the most ridiculous things that I've heard in a while. There is absolutely no need for a 60,000 seater stadium in Cork. At the Munster Football Final last year, there were 22,000 people at it. There is no justification for this new Stadium at all.

I suppose the Cork county board are saving a lot of money on not having to employ someone to cut Donal Óg's sandwiches in triangles any more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why don't the GAA pump money into infrastructure on the grassroots rather than building these oversized stadia. Even if they insist on building new stadiums, why don't they do up Clones because Ulster needs it a lot more than Munster!

I lol'd!:D

+1 aswell. In the current climate, it's never going to happen anyway.

HeLlDoItHeCrAzY

parc ui cuoimh is a grand size at the moment.. bit worse for wear, but grand.. tis the likes of kerry im worried bout, the brazil of football, and are a decent stadium in the whole county!!??? they surely deserve an upgrade.. im all for the development, but i think resources should go to those who deserve it first of all, just my two cents

HeLlDoItHeCrAzY

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gingy
This is one of the most ridiculous things that I've heard in a while. There is absolutely no need for a 60,000 seater stadium in Cork. At the Munster Football Final last year, there were 22,000 people at it. There is no justification for this new Stadium at all.

I suppose the Cork county board are saving a lot of money on not having to employ someone to cut Donal Óg's sandwiches in triangles any more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why don't the GAA pump money into infrastructure on the grassroots rather than building these oversized stadia. Even if they insist on building new stadiums, why don't they do up Clones because Ulster needs it a lot more than Munster!

have to agree aswell... like I said, give to the needy!.. Ulster and Connaught are pretty much in neglect as far as infastructure goes... their stadias are nothin more than hills with a bit of concrete and metal fencing.. tis a joke!! How do you expect people in the north (no disrespect) to go the gaa way when they are been shown such disrespect.. Munsters big and all, but not that big.. GG, Semple, and Parc Ui Chuimh at its current capacity is all thats needed!! at the most all parc ui chuiomh needs is a lick of paint and a polish, not a complete overhall..... hey!, maybe they could save there money to pay the players who have achieved so much in the last few years:D

Mullet

Whats the point. How many times would it be filled in a year?? Built in the middle of no were. I prefer Pairc ui rinn myself as it suits corks needs as their supporters only show up for the munster final.

Flukey

I've made my first ever visit to it since my last post in the thread. It has potential if it was developed. It is nice above ground, but the facilities below are terrible. Whether they need a 60,000 capacity is another thing, but they certainly could do something with it to improve it - like a lot of grounds around the country. At the way things are going, they could have all this year to do it, as there may not be any GAA matches in Cork this year.

HeLlDoItHeCrAzY

Flukey wrote: »

It has potential if it was developed. It is nice above ground, but the facilities below are terrible. Whether they need a 60,000 capacity is another thing/quote]

Totally agree.. it badly needs a scrub up facility wise, then again so does semple.. and 60,000?? not a chance.. its just too much in reality.. nice number between 40-50000 if they were to completely overhall, which i still think is totally un nessicary..

sure dosnt it hold that much roughly anyway.. I know 44000 people were in nowlan park a few years back for the wexford v dublin leinsteir semi final..

galwayash

Cork City Council Votes in Favour of GAA Plan
The City Council has voted 17-11 in favour of the Cork GAA proposal to purchase land for the re-development of Páirc Uí Chaoimh.

http://www.sportsnewsireland.com/2010/06/14/cork-city-council-votes-in-favour-of-gaa-plan/

SeaFields

galwayash wrote: »

Cork City Council Votes in Favour of GAA Plan
The City Council has voted 17-11 in favour of the Cork GAA proposal to purchase land for the re-development of Páirc Uí Chaoimh.

Thats great news. City manager was against the redevelopment - why is anyones guess. A state of the art stadium at last and hopefully local builders will get work out of it.

The_Kew_Tour

About F in time

Great news

Stinicker

About time that place is really a death trap, yesterday there was a mini crush around the mens toilets underneath the covered stand, a child could have been easily injured. I had to abandon plans to strain the spuds at half time due to the queues. The steps are letal and the it just needs to be completly torn down, there was a really long queue into the stand also with only two turnstiles to admit the crowd! The sad thing about the whole thing is the location which is just a hole with no access, no transportation or handy parking.

I spent 50 minutes waiting in my car in Pairc Ui Rinn (which was acting as a makeshift carpark) yesterday before the traffic started moving and this was with a small crowd of 24,000 it must be a nightmare there on a Munster Hurling final day. The whole thing should be moved out near Ballincollig with a dedicated stadium and about 10 or 15 thousand dedicated parking spaces.

homerjay2005

good news. i have dreams of ireland bidding for a euro championship again with scotland and with 2 class stadiums in dublin and now this, we are almost there. finish off thomand and theres the 4 that we need!

castie

Isnt thommand already finished with capacity of under 40k?

Sure Semple can hold 53,500 ( according to wikipedia )
and the Gaelic grounds is just under 50k.

Speak Now

castie wrote: »

Isnt thommand already finished with capacity of under 40k?

Sure Semple can hold 53,500 ( according to wikipedia )
and the Gaelic grounds is just under 50k.

From what he's referring to they'd need to be all seater i'd say.

who the fug

God I feel old, I remember that place being opened, anyway about time something was done with it

Deedsie

Great news, has anyone seen the plans? Is it actually gonna be an all seater?

Fr Tod Umptious

homerjay2005 wrote: »

good news. i have dreams of ireland bidding for a euro championship again with scotland and with 2 class stadiums in dublin and now this, we are almost there. finish off thomand and theres the 4 that we need!

will people ever give this a rest.

We have two grounds up to standard and that is not enough

It will be years before we have any more.

Orizio

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

will people ever give this a rest.

We have two grounds up to standard and that is not enough

It will be years before we have any more.

What is the other one?

Kingdom

When it's done there will be more quality large capacity grounds in Munster than the rest of the country.
Pairc na Gael
Pairc Ui Chaoimh
Fitzgerald Stadium (Which really looks the part with the new terrace)
and at a push Semple (not that I think it's grear personally).

castie

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: »

From what he's referring to they'd need to be all seater i'd say.

Croker wouldnt fit in in that case then.

Neither would thommand.

rn

My God - another GAA county embarking on a multi-million euro stadium. When is the GAA going to learn it does not need this many high capacity stadiums? We have clubs that have substandard facilities and many urban areas that have no local access to GAA facilities at all. But we persist in supplying top of the range facilities for two maybe three games per year. It makes absolutely no sense to me.

Definitely Pairc Ui Caoimh should be tidied up and modernised, but a 60000 seater stadium would be vastly more expenisve than a 40000 terrace based setup and there is no viable return on investment for the 60000 seats from GAA acitivities alone.

If right was right, Each county would have repectable modern stadia between 25-35K capacity with a mixture of seating and terrace to suit all pockets. Then have maybe 2 55-60K stadiums (Semple being obvious choice for one towards the south and maybe Clones or Brefini for the other to serve the north half of country.) And Croke park should be closed to all intercounty games used before 2nd last week in July - the time of year when crowds justify its use.

All other GAA money should go into acquiring land in urban areas (from NAMA since its there) for local facilities and upgrading any club in the country that does not meet a minimum standard of facility ASAP.

It can be summed up like this: for our highest level of game we have too many places to play - but we haven't enough places for everyone to play.

homerjay2005

45,000 all seater would be more than enough alright, same as with all the other grounds, no need for more than that. im sure that would reduce the cost by alot. speaking of which, what will the cost be overall?

killarney is run be a seperate company, they are independant to the GAA and i maybe wrong here, but so far, in about 10 years, they have pretty much done 2/3s of the ground and it only cost about 3 or 4 million. thats economical and while there still is work to be done, to get a pretty decent stadium for that amount, is very good going.

the uncovered stand and then the stand will all be completed, i think final capacity will be 55,000 and will look very good indeed once finished. limerick is a lovely ground now, semple is in a need of moderisation, the old stand opposite the cameras should be torn down as should the terraces.

hardybuck

Seems like total overkill by Cork GAA. The place looked like a nuclear bunker, and I agree that it and the area surrounding it need upgrading. However as mentioned the access there is quite poor and must be looked at.

Is this really the best way that Cork GAA can spend their money? Officials are often obsessed with the quality of facilities and more interest improving that side of things than improving the quality and administration of the games themselves in my experience.

What will the strike prone Cork squads make of this!?

Orizio

Seems like total overkill by Cork GAA. The place looked like a nuclear bunker, and I agree that it and the area surrounding it need upgrading. However as mentioned the access there is quite poor and must be looked at.

Is this really the best way that Cork GAA can spend their money? Officials are often obsessed with the quality of facilities and more interest improving that side of things than improving the quality and administration of the games themselves in my experience.

Officials are too obssessed with the size of the stadium rather then the quality of the facilities themselves. If the only improvement they will have made to the Pairc is to increase capacity and improve little else then it will be a waste of money. Cork GAA is sitting on considerable amounts of money tbf, I don't think this will make us bankrupt any time soon.

What will the strike prone Cork squads make of this!?

:rolleyes:

rn

I have to say I really don't like the concept of "independent" companies running the stadiums. We are putting association money into these facilites and at the end of the day then these companies will need to canvas all sports and codes just to drum up business. Likewise I don't believe we should in the business of building concert venues. I'm not at all comfortable with that. I do favour keeping GAA ground for GAA games only - GAA clubs put the most effort into providing facilities at a local level themselves, other sports shouldn't just turn up get to rent them...

The GAA needs some sort of Executive body to oversee what county boards and clubs are currently doing and not doing from a capital development point of view and that clubs and county boards are not over extended in loan wise.

Shane10

the GAA needs to get real and get up to date. whats with this waste of money building terraces at grounds on 3 sides and a stand on 1 side. crappy grounds with no real facilities, out of date practically as soon as they go up. grounds should be hired out for anything concerts, soccer games whatever needed to bring in the cash. its 2010, get on board.

rn

So you are saying to invest in large capacity grounds for 0 - 2 days out per year at full capacity to promote GAA activities... The rest of the time let in who ever is willing to rent... Firstly there aren't nearly enough concerts or soccer or rugby games that would draw enough capacity to justify a decent rent on vast majority of grounds - the GAA would be doing it nearly as a favour - a total waste of GAA fans money. It just isn't viable to replicate Landsdowne road (aviva stadium) model in every county in ireland to any success. Secondly the GAA's principle aim should be facilities to promote the participation in its games, its activities - not building stadiums for the watching of others and to facilitate those that wish to watch other activities.

I don't agree that its an out dated view that GAA grounds are exclusively for GAA acitivities. Old fashioned maybe yes - but not outdated. The professional codes decide to line the players pockets with money. Like all businesses, they want to "outsource" their capital costs. People think that it makes logical sense to leverage the GAA and their hard earned capital infrastructure to save a cost and instantly roll out rugby and soccer to a wider market in Ireland. It certainly makes business sense.

However In the long run it is my view the GAA would loose out from a marketing point of view, which would have knock on effect on the over all organisation. Take for example if Connacht Rugby rented pearse stadium off Galway county board for whatever cup competition they are in, but a Connacht home game clashes with the Galway hurling U-21 county final... The county board should always favour the hurling game, but in the modern world of trial by media they would be sentenced by the press. The press tried to do it already this year. The GAA can never win whether it rents out or not because people are envious of what they have. Therefore it should not concern itself every about renting stadiums and concentrate on hosting its own games.

fullstop

castie wrote: »

Croker wouldnt fit in in that case then.

Neither would thommand.

Croker has been all-seater for all the soccer internationals so yes it would fit in.
What is thommand? The previous poster was talking about Thomond Park, the rugby stadium...and by 'finish it off' he meant renovate the two terraced ends behind the posts I presume.