Jeep Drivers!!!

Lawless_Samurai

Hi, is it just me or are the majority of jeep, 4x4's, off-road or whatever you wanna call them bad drivers? Now don't get me wrong I know quite a few people who have jeeps and can drive pretty well but these people use them for the right reasons along with their day to day lives, ie on farms, for horses etc. I'm talking about the people who have purchased an off road vehicle and live in suburban areas or the city which is worse! Just from experiance I find these people don't give a toss about anybody else on the road or the rules of the road. Somehow because they drive a vehicle nearly the size of their house they are suddenly above everyone else! Anyone find this to be true or is it just me???

Cormster

Hi
I have come across a few Jeep / 4x4 drivers that seem a bit too comfortable in whatever protection they feel such a vehicle offers, and aren't very considerate of other road users.
Having said that I have seen other Jeep drivers that are fine, and I wouldn't have a problem with them generally. I have also seen drivers of other sorts of vehicles who have done things that almost had me pulling out my hear (figuratively speaking).
In the case of Jeep drivers (or at least the few bad ones I have encountered) I amn't sure if the larger size of the vehicles give them more comfort but it may be a factor.
Personally, as a driver of a small car I would be cautious on the roads generally but especially so around vehicles that are larger than mine- they may have more severe blind spots (not sure if thats 100% true, but I reckon it pays to be cautious).

Anan1

Lawless_Samurai wrote: »

Anyone find this to be true or is it just me???

It's not just you. Actually, it's not just the two of us either.;) http://cars.uk.msn.com/news/car_news_article.aspx?cp-documentid=586453

Wossack

generally more arrogant and aggresive in my experience

Tigrrrr

Cant say I've noticed this. In fact, when I drive it it's for what you'd describe above as being for the "right" reasons and I'll be the first to hold my hand up and say I'm a terrible driver. Just awful.

BTW, how can one know who is driving a 4wd for the "right reasons" like lugging a horse across the country and who is, for example, a suburban yummy mummy using the vehicle to fetch and ship Sneachta and Fuinneog from ballet to "apparently gifted child" classes, and so on?

RobbieMc

Okay, Okay, I think we should first clear up one thing, My 4x4 is not a jeep. there I've said it
I drive a Land rover discovery as my daily driver to and from work.
I also drive a classic 1974 Range Rover as my weekender for the old drive here and there maybe to a classic show.
Then I drive "Old Yellow", My '85 Land rover defender, tricked up and ready to rumble. All the battle scars to prove it :rolleyes:
Now, I do agree that there are those who fall into a class of Yuppy 4x4 driver. Car is used for the school run, or to the shops or to bring all the kids to a football game. But when the weather gets bad and the ice and snow hit the ground, whats the first vehicle to get stuck? The Yuppy 4x4 driver cause they can not drive.:eek:
There again, I know a lot of 4x4 drivers who on a cold and frosty or snow covered day have given their time to pulling "small car" drives out of the car park up near the wicklow gap, or have patrolled the wicklow gap for those "small car " drivers who did not heed the warning that the road was impassable.

So, I drive a 4x4, I'm not a yuppy, I do live in a suburban area, but without the likes of people like me, smal car drivers would be stuck on the side of the road waiting on the AA in his truck.

My six cents worth, all in good fun

prospect

Lawless_Samurai wrote: »

Hi, is it just me or are the majority of jeep, 4x4's, off-road or whatever you wanna call them bad drivers?

FX Meister

Lawless_Samurai wrote: »

Hi, is it just me or are the majority of jeep, 4x4's, off-road or whatever you wanna call them bad drivers?

I'd say it's just you. You probably just notice them more as you wish you could afford one instead of your old jalopy and want to put the drivers down as you envy them.

Anan1

FX Meister wrote: »

I'd say it's just you. You probably just notice them more as you wish you could afford one instead of your old jalopy and want to put the drivers down as you envy them.

How old are you? Ten?

colm_mcm

I think there is an element of truth in what FX says!

Anan1

colm_mcm wrote: »

I think there is an element of truth in what FX says!

Maybe you're right, Colm. Maybe I do wish I could afford an SUV.;)

Gatster

just me or are the majority of jeep, 4x4's, off-road or whatever you wanna call them bad drivers

No more so than anyone in an S-Class? What a load of rubbish, there are bad drivers in every type of car. Fair play if a Yummy Mummy wants to ferry the kiddywinks 2 miles to school in a Range Rover Sport, it doesn't mean she's a bad driver.

keefg

Wossack wrote: »

generally more arrogant and aggresive in my experience

No worse than any BMW driver I have seen

Anan1

Gatster wrote: »

Fair play if a Yummy Mummy wants to ferry the kiddywinks 2 miles to school in a Range Rover Sport, it doesn't mean she's a bad driver.

How about if she knocks down another kiddywink on her way? According to a TCD study, pedestrians are twice as likely to die if hit by an SUV as if hit by a car. Is that 'fair play'?

Del2005

Anan1 wrote: »

How about if she knocks down another kiddywink on her way? According to a TCD study, pedestrians are twice as likely to die if hit by an SUV as if hit by a car. Is that 'fair play'?

Is that not with bull bars fitted? Would the greater height of the SUV not be saver for peds. Can you link to the survey, cause stats can be made to say anything?

Quint

4x4's aren't nessessarly expensive, most normal car drivers could afford one.
What i find hilarious, is 4x4 drivers slowing down, or swerving to avoid those speedbumps, you know the ones that are actually 4 bumps across the road!
I live in an estate with a school 200 meters away across a main road, few days ago there was 2 sterertypical blond 40 year olds in their 4x4's driving their kids from the estate to school!
SUV's are actually proven to be more dangerious than normal cars too, bigger braking distance, easier to roll etc.
Not including people that need them for work, 4x4 drivers are idiots!

colm_mcm

pedestrians are far less likely to get hit by SUVs if they don't walk out into traffic. Fair play.

A lot of studies on "SUV"'s are done in America where an SUV is an entirely different beast to the Rav4's and Tucson's we have here.

golden

Its not just the yuppy mummies its also guys as well. I have witnessed two things firstly a 4x4 swerving to avoid a manhole (covered) in the road!! Another 4 x 4 stopped on the road due to a tiny branch that was supple enough and could be removed off the road with one hand with no effort whatsoever. The car behind the 4 x 4 just drove over it. And these are supposed to be off road vehicles!!!

Anan1

Del2005 wrote: »

Is that not with bull bars fitted? Would the greater height of the SUV not be saver for peds. Can you link to the survey, cause stats can be made to say anything?

I can't remember where I read it, but I just googled it and came up with this: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn4462.html. I'd assume the greater height of the SUV makes it more dangerous for pedestrians, as they get smacked down onto the tarmac rather than swept up over the car.

Golferx

FX_meister is right, it is just the likes of Lawless_Samurai and Anan.

4x4, or SUV, or whatever (US term you want to use) drivers are no different to us all. Any perceived opinion to the contrary is nothing more than inverted motoring snobbery, i.e. a fashionable argument against a genre of vehicle.

I see a Range Rover, I see over €60k of tax into our system that would otherwise have to be found by taxing the rest of us. If all so called cars were removed from the roads the Revenue would have to make up the shortfall from somewhere, that somewhere being the motorist so every motorist's tax contribution would rise.

@Anan,
Do you have the same opposition to Hiaces, Transits and Busses? Or just a prejudice against urban-tractors? (You see? I used another condescending word there?)

I would guess that the same TCD study would show you are much more likely to be hurt by a Toyota Yaris that hits you, than a Toyota LandCruiser that doesn't!:rolleyes:

Golferx

Quint wrote: »

........
Not including people that need them for work, 4x4 drivers are idiots!

What do you drive, Quint?

Anan1

colm_mcm wrote: »

A lot of studies on "SUV"'s are done in America where an SUV is an entirely different beast to the Rav4's and Tucson's we have here.

My quote is from the UK.

Golferx wrote: »

@Anan,
Do you have the same opposition to Hiaces, Transits and Busses? Or just a prejudice against urban-tractors? (You see? I used another condescending word there?):

No. Or SUVs being used in situations where they're actually necessary. As quint said.

Quint

Why would someone that never goes off road but a 4x4 is beyond me. Paying for mad specialist suspension, 4x4 gearbox that will never be used! Why?
My neighbour bought a Range Rover, it was the "Vogue" model as he pointed out, had all the extras, cost him 130k. He was showing off the camera and monitor that's used to monitor your horses in the horsebox! He's a builder! And he didn't even drive it, he used his car while his wife used it for the shopping! It also had mad technology for driving up and down hills. 130k for a vehicle for his wife to get bread in the local shops!
As I said, they're for idiots! Anytime i see a range rover in the city centre with low profile wheels, obviously never driven off road, i just think "gob****e".

thund3rbird_

Lawless_Samurai wrote: »

Hi, is it just me ....................................................

not just you by a long shot

another thing not mentioned is when one of them is driving behind you at night
the headlights are so high compared to other cars that it's blinding AND they drive right up yer ar$e which makes it worse

often I've had to change the rearview mirror to "night mode"

methinks this is just an excuse to make you pull in / get out of the way so they can get past.

I usually can't stand Brendan thingy off you're a star but that recent dubliner cheese ad about "taste" rang true

Gatster

Originally Posted by Anan1
How about if she knocks down another kiddywink on her way? According to a TCD study, pedestrians are twice as likely to die if hit by an SUV as if hit by a car. Is that 'fair play'?

Force majeure, c'est la vie, but obviously if she did hit someone it's solely because she was one of "the majority" of combined bad & SUV drivers...

Anan1

Gatster wrote: »

Force majeure, c'est la vie...

Eh, no. She chose to buy that SUV. And c'est le mort might be more appropriate.

colm_mcm

So do ye think bad drivers are drawn to SUV's. Or does driving an SUV turn you into a bad driver?

Anan1

colm_mcm wrote: »

So do ye think bad drivers are drawn to SUV's. Or does driving an SUV turn you into a bad driver?

I'd say both.

Gatster

Originally Posted by Anan1
She chose to buy that SUV.

I doubt that she'd choose to have hit them. Maybe they chose to jump out.
Either way, saying drivers of SUV's are worse than others just because they are in such a vehicle, is, at best, a troll-worthy comment.

Golferx

Quint wrote: »

...................
As I said, they're for idiots! Anytime i see a range rover in the city centre with low profile wheels, obviously never driven off road, i just think "gob****e".

Again. What do you drive, Quint?

Anan1

Gatster wrote: »

I doubt that she'd choose to have hit them. Maybe they chose to jump out.

We all know that one day we may hit a pedestrian. She chose to drive a vehicle that was twice as likely as a car to kill that pedestrian.

Gatster wrote: »

Either way, saying drivers of SUV's are worse than others just because they are in such a vehicle, is, at best, a troll-worthy comment.

I have explained the reasoning behind my opinion to you as clearly as I can. Is there a particular part you don't understand? If so, tell me and i'll try again. While you're at it, you might explain how the fact that you don't understand/agree with my opinion makes me a troll?

Anan1

Golferx wrote: »

Again. What do you drive, Quint?

What difference does it make?

Golferx

One of the common barbs thrown by the anti-4x4 people is the lack of use off-road by so many of these cars. Just because the vehicle can be used off-road does not compel one to actually take them off road. (Actually, given the state of most country roads , and some city ones, they are a most suitable vehicle for negotiating one's way around.)

Comments like saying it's OK for certain people to use 4x4, because they "need" such a vehicle is a pathetic get-out from the 4x4 critics. Most of these critics are really just showing their empty head, rather than an open mind. To criticise someone for not taking a 4x4 off road and then to keep one's mouth shut about someone driving an M5 smacks of hypocrisy. If one was to use the logic of people only being allowed buy vehicles which were singularly suitable for their use then one would, at one stroke, wipe out all of Mercedes, BMW, Lexus etc. All cars capable of doing more than 120kph should be banned, and single-occupant commuters would not be allowed drive anything bigger than a motorbike.

It is perfectly obvious road safety and pedestrian safety is only a red-fherring for the anti-4x4 people, they never, never, comment on the lack of safety of all the busses and lorries, for example.

The anti-4x4 critics need to get a life and remember we live in a democracy. Let people drive what they choose. If they want to contribute ridiculous amounts of tax, let them. It reduces the tax burden on the rest of us.

Meanwhile, I'll trundle along quite merrily in my Disco, happy in the knowledge I'm annoying so many people who should know better.

The Disco is a fantastic vehicle, eminently suitable for this great country of ours. I wouldn't be seen in anything smaller.

Golferx

Anan1 wrote: »

What difference does it make?

Let Quint answer the question!

Anan1

Golferx wrote: »

Let people drive what they choose. If they want to contribute ridiculous amounts of tax, let them. It reduces the tax burden on the rest of us.

I completely agree with this, as long as it does not impact negatively on me. My problem with SUVs is twofold - firstly, they're hard to see past from behind, and secondly, they're particularly dangerous to anything they hit.

As far as i'm concerned, trucks, buses and lorries fall into the same category as farmers 4x4s.

And I hate to be the one to break it to you, but Quint's not logged on any more. I will ask you again, though - what difference does it make?

Gatster

@ Anan1

It's pretty simple really - you love giving statistics, so I'd like you to comprehensively prove (God knows how, LOL) that SUV drivers are somehow 'worse' drivers than say, Supermini drivers.

Where, during your posts, have you explained your reasoning, as opposed to just providing links?

Trolling, seeing as you seem unable to grasp the concept.

@ Golferx Damn right..."One of the common barbs...", great post. The amount of people I see in S-Class Mercs, pottering around Dublin, single occupancy. Most probably never get to strech their legs or carry more than driver+1...

Golferx

Anan1 wrote: »

I completely agree with this, as long as it does not impact negatively on me. My problem with SUVs is twofold - firstly, they're hard to see past from behind, and secondly, they're particularly dangerous to anything they hit.

As far as i'm concerned, trucks, buses and lorries fall into the same category as farmers 4x4s.

..............

So, by this reasoning, you have no issues with the safety of vehicles you deem necessary ? If this is so, you are being hypocritical.

As for seeing past these vehicles? Please enlighten us as to what you drive and what you can see past? Because, if everyone drove the same vehicle one would not be able to see past the car in front. (Why do you need to see past the vehicle in front? There's no legitimate reason, if you're keeping a safe distance.)

Anan1, what do you drive?

Anan1

Gatster wrote: »

@ Anan1

It's pretty simple really - you love giving statistics, so I'd like you to prove (God knows how, LOL) that SUV drivers are somehow 'worse' drivers than say, Supermini drivers.

We both know I can't.:) I will, however, explain my reasoning: I don't think anyone can deny that SUVs impact more negatively on other road users than cars. They're harder to see around than cars, and they're more destructive to whatever they hit. The kind of person who would knowingly choose such a vehicle could therefore safely be assumed to have less consideration for other road users than the norm. Add less consideration to an intrinsically more dangerous vehicle, and what do you get? A higher likelihood of deaths, that's what you get.

Anan1

Golferx wrote: »

So, by this reasoning, you have no issues with the safety of vehicles you deem necessary ? If this is so, you are being hypocritical.

How so?

Golferx wrote: »

As for seeing past these vehicles? Please enlighten us as to what you drive and what you can see past? Because, if everyone drove the same vehicle one would not be able to see past the car in front.

I drive one car of average height, and one car which is lower than average.

Golferx wrote: »

(Why do you need to see past the vehicle in front? There's no legitimate reason, if you're keeping a safe distance.).

Please tell me you're joking? Have you never heard of reading the road ahead?

Golferx wrote: »

Anan1, what do you drive?

For the third time, what difference does it make?

Golferx

Anan1 wrote: »

We both know I can't.:) I will, however, explain my reasoning: I don't think anyone can deny that SUVs impact more negatively on other road users than cars. They're harder to see around than cars, and they're more destructive to whatever they hit. The kind of person who would knowingly choose such a vehicle could therefore safely be assumed to have less consideration for other road users than the norm. Add less consideration to an intrinsically more dangerous vehicle, and what do you get? A higher likelihood of deaths, that's what you get.

That is not true.






A fool/idiot in a Toyota Yaris will cause more harm, hurt more people than a sensible person in a Rav 4.

A person who knowingly drives recklessly is a danger, irregardless of what vehicle he/she drives.

So, Anan1, what do you drive? And why do you need to see past every vehicle in front of you? (except, of course, those vehicles which are needed by their owners/drivers, which you don't need to see past)

Anan1

Golferx wrote: »

That is not true.
A fool/idiot in a Toyota Yaris will cause more harm, hurt more people than a sensible person in a Rav 4.

True. How is this relevant to what I have said?

Golferx wrote: »

A person who knowingly drives recklessly is a danger, irregardless of what vehicle he/she drives.

Really?

Golferx wrote: »

So, Anan1, what do you drive?

Tell me what difference it makes, and i'll be happy to tell you.

Golferx wrote: »

And why do you need to see past every vehicle in front of you? (except, of course, those vehicles which are needed by their owners/drivers, which you don't need to see past)

I've answered this already. Honestly, have you never heard of reading the road ahead?

Quint

I drive a motorcycle.
The whole suv thing goes just makes the road less safe for EVERYONE! to the kids playing on the street (poor vision out of suvs when reversing), to the pedestrians that get hit (impact on head and shoulders instead of legs), to the cars hit by them (suvs are heavier, and due to soft susoension they have longer braking distances).
All this, just cos the owner feels important cos they're higher than normal cars! How sad!
If you're crossing a road, or your child is, would you rather you/they get hit by an suv or a normal car? My guess is the car.

Golferx

Anan1 wrote: »

How so?..........

You cannot single out private vehicles for different safety standards to commercial vehicles.

Anan1 wrote: »

................
I drive one car of average height, and one car which is lower than average...............................

I don't particularly care about their height. What types/models of car are they, and please justify your rational for them. (Seeing as you are deciding what type of car others' should be allowed drive)

Anan1 wrote: »

..............Have you never heard of reading the road ahead?
...........

I've heard of it, yes, thanks. And it's 100% possible regardless of whatever vehicle is in front, if you are keeping a safe distance back. Get too close and you , or me, cannot see the road ahead. It's nice to see ahead of the car in front, it's not necessary.

Anan1 wrote: »

....................
For the third time, what difference does it make?

For the third time? I addressed the question to Quint, previously. When she/he comes back, she/he can answer.
For some reason you seem rather shy about telling us what you drive.

What difference does it make? It makes a difference to your argument if you are driving something ridiculous, a charge you are making against others. If you are driving something that could cause undue harm to another, then you are equally hypocritical.


What about the age-old argument that ALL bikers are gay? It's as true as the argument you are making against 4x4 drivers.

Del2005

Anan1 wrote: »

I can't remember where I read it, but I just googled it and came up with this: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn4462.html. I'd assume the greater height of the SUV makes it more dangerous for pedestrians, as they get smacked down onto the tarmac rather than swept up over the car.

Sorry Anan1, but that is all about US SUV's and not our SUV's. The paper may be English but all the stats are pulled from the US. The SUV's in the US are a totally different shape and size to the SUV's we have over here. The yokes they have in the States are all light trucks with seperate chassis and body. Where as ours are mainly just the bog standard car with higher suspension and a few bulges in the body work to make it look macho.

Del2005

Quint wrote: »

If you're crossing a road, or your child is, would you rather you/they get hit by an suv or a normal car? My guess is the car.

I look to make sure nothing is coming and I'll teach my children to do the same. It's that sort of nanny state atitude which has us where we are, people should look after themselves and not expect everyone else to.

Golferx

Quint wrote: »

I drive a motorcycle.........

Welcome back, Quint.


A Biker? Well, well. Doesn't that explain so much!

Quint wrote: »

...................
All this, just cos the owner feels important cos they're higher than normal cars! ...................

Gawd. You were half way towards making a rational argument then you come out with this?

Where, oh where, did you clutch this nugget from? It really does not make any sense. Please explain how being higher up makes one feel important?


The scangers, stoned out of their heads, on the back of the 46A must feel very important, by that logic!


Lads/lassies, take a chill pill and come up with some logical arguments to defend your corner. All I see are irrational statements showing nothing more than an inverted snobbery towards a particular genre of vehicle.

Anan1

Del2005 wrote: »

Where as ours are mainly just the bog standard car with higher suspension and a few bulges in the body work to make it look macho.

This is true of the better SUVs. Does raising the height and centre of gravity of a car make it a) safer or b.) less safe to other road users? The fact is that SUVs are intrinsically more dangerous than cars.

Del2005 wrote: »

I look to make sure nothing is coming and I'll teach my children to do the same.

I'm assuming you drive safely. Do you therefore dispense with your seat belt?

Anan1

Golferx wrote: »

Lads/lassies, take a chill pill and come up with some logical arguments to defend your corner. All I see are irrational statements showing nothing more than an inverted snobbery towards a particular genre of vehicle.

Perhaps you need to read the thread.;)

colm_mcm

I usually enjoy your arguments Anan1, and you usually make valid or at least interesting points.
You're off the pace this evening though!

Golferx

So, Anan1,

What do you drive, and please justify your decision.

Anan1

colm_mcm wrote: »

I usually enjoy your arguments Anan1, and you usually make valid or at least interesting points.
You're off the pace this evening though!

Come on, colm, surely you're going to point out the weaknesses in my point of view;)