M14 seized by Customs

Judge dredd

Need a bit of advice,i purchased a cyma M14 from RSOV and have now been informed by USP that customs have seized it and i need an import license to get it released.anybody else have this problem?could really use some advice about it.

o1s1n

Hard luck. If I remember correctly, all the other seizures of late were through UPS too. Have a read of this thread

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055156901

Stop using UPS people!

NakedDex

Which sucks because UPS was always my most favoured courier. They were always on time, courteous and the packages were always immaculate. You could tell they were handled well. FedEx were great but suffered similar fates that UPS now suffer,

Shiva

Keith has a notice detailing his various shipping options, and he mentions that UPS aren't recommended for a couple of countries, including Ireland.

I'd love to know why the hell it seems to be only their stuff that's being held up.

And OP...you don't need an import license if your device is under the legal limit - that's a crock. If they have any fears it may be above the limit, they can send it to the Garda ballistics department for testing, but they can't just seize it and concoct a cock and bull story as an excuse.

Its possible they think you need a firearms cert to import it - this has happened in the past - but I would have thought at this stage they'd be familiar with the change in the legislation allowing airsoft devices to be imported. You should call customs directly and ask what the issue is. Its likely the person you spoke to in UPS is misquoting someone from customs, or is relaying third or fourth hand information to you.

If you're confident your gun is under the legal limit, follow this up - don't just write it off as a loss. Customs have a lot of power, but they aren't above the law, and they're professional enough to know this.

Shiva

o1s1n wrote: »

Stop using UPS people!

Would there be any point in the IAA either approaching customs and asking for some clarification, or talking to UPS and finding out what's going on ?

Rew

Shiva wrote: »

Its possible they think you need a firearms cert to import it - this has happened in the past

Which is funny because you need more then a firearms cert to import a fire arm. Contact customs about it.

Judge dredd

Thanks for the link o1s1n,just wish i had seen it before i ordered from RSOV and used :mad:UPS:mad:.

HarryHirsch

I've the same problem. I've already been waiting for 4 weeks. 2 week I've waited for the gradai officer to return from holiday. Now I'm waiting for the result of the ballistics department. I was told this could take 4 weeks, because there is only one in Ireland.:mad:

liamo333

This happend to me when I bought my gspec, I recived a letter asking me for a copy of my firearms certificate. I sent them a letter explaning the law and a coppy of the act. I recived the gun 4 days and to this day it still shows as held in customs:)

Hivemind187

Shiva wrote: »

Would there be any point in the IAA either approaching customs and asking for some clarification, or talking to UPS and finding out what's going on ?

Good gravy I only saw this now - good question Shiva.

Folks, we do have plans to contact the various different parties involved in the import/export system (ha!) but the truth is right now, considering the small number of members and the fact we are still putting things together to be an officially recognised body the amount of clout we would have is essentially nil.

We can contact retailers and sites and impress upon them the need to do this that or the other but in contacting the customs people etc we are just arsey cirtizens.

A few more members and the time to approach the situation correctly and we might be able to do something positive (at least get the customs people/gardai up to speed on the laws they are supposed to be aware of).

If anyone has specific incidences of this kind of malarky please drop us a pm and let us know anfd we will include it in our eventual approach to the authorities.

Judge dredd

Received an email from ups this morning which basically said, we lied to you,Customs dont have your M14,we do and were are not going to give it to you until Customs and the Dept of Justice say we can.IS THIS COMPANY FOR REAL.

Hivemind187

Judge dredd wrote: »

Received an email from ups this morning which basically said, we lied to you,Customs dont have your M14,we do and were are not going to give it to you until Customs and the Dept of Justice say we can.IS THIS COMPANY FOR REAL.

Can you relate the text of this letter here?

Judge dredd

here it is......................

You need to discuss with Customs and Dept. of Justice, UPS cannot release this shipment without permission from Irish Customs.

Yours sincerely,

G N
UPS Ireland Ltd.


word for word.

Wossack

UPS are just a joke of a company - theyre on my 'avoid for the rest of my life' list

gandalf

Well they are definately on my shipping blacklist now. Never really rated them anyway.

Hivemind187

Judge dredd wrote: »

here it is......................

You need to discuss with Customs and Dept. of Justice, UPS cannot release this shipment without permission from Irish Customs.

Yours sincerely,

G N
UPS Ireland Ltd.


word for word.

Right, well thats as helpful as a chocolate teapot in July.

there is nothing for it butto give customs a bell mate, see what they have to say. I would reccomend pulling a copy of the 1 joule law from the newbie thread so you have it to hand when discussing it. Be polite and understanding with them.

ambro25

Tips, if I may be so presumptuous

#01 - reply email
_thank them for their email
_express disappointment at UPS' previous misinformation (that Customs had it when they did not)
_state the current law (1J Rule)
_state you believe the contents conform to the 1J Rule and therefore = toy
_state that AFAYK, if there is any issue as to the legality of the contents, (e.g. >1J), then it should be passed to Customs for inspection, who will then get it tested by Ballistics, that it's usual procedure for airsoft, that you then deal directly with Customs, who are the people entitled to detain/confiscate/whatever
_state you want copy/reference/info about the authority/basis on which they are detaining your property (UPS T&Cs, or Act, Statutory Instrument/etc.)
_state you'd be happy to receive details of all relevant contacts with phones/emails to resolve matter satisfactorily for all parties ASAP
_state you will contact by phone within 24 hours of the email
_provide a contact number (mobile)

#02 - call them, refer to your email, be ready to go all over it again, get names/dates/time of call (and write them down)

#03 - do not allude to Court/Proceedings just yet. But make sure they understand that you will get to the bottom of this, make all appropriate enquiries with authorities and will seek redress if there has been an abuse.

And be courteous and polite. You're not some nutcase who's trafficking RS, you're a responsible adult who has a hobby

Hivemind187

ambro25 wrote: »

Tips, if I may be so presumptuous

#01 - reply email
_thank them for their email
_state the current law (1J Rule)
_state you believe the contents conform to the 1J Ruyle and therefore = toy
_state that AFAYK, if there is any issue as to the legality of the contents, (e.g. >1J), then it should be passed to Customs for inspection, who will then get it tested by Ballistics, then you deal directly with Customs, who are the people entitled to detain/confiscate/whatever (since UPS has no right to unilaterally detain your property)
_state you want copy/reference/info about the authority/basis on which they are detaining your property (if Act/etc., UPS are not law enforcement/authorised officers - as stated above, it's Customs/Guards job, not UPS's)
_state you'd be happy to receive a number of relevant contacts with phones/emails to resolve matter satisfactorily for all parties
_state you will contact by phone within 24 hours

#02 - call them, refer to your email, be ready to go all over it again, get names/dates/time of call (and write them down)

And be courteous and polite. You're not some nutcase who's trafficking RS, you're a responsible adult who has a hobby

Someone please correct the spelling then Sticky this immediately!!

Cuddlesworth

ambro25 wrote: »

#03 - do not allude to Court/Proceedings just yet. But make sure they understand that you will get to the bottom of this, make all appropriate inquiries with authorities and will seek redress if there has been an abuse.

Thats it as far as I can see, not bad for that much text.

ambro25

to yer lot (= ungrateful sods :rolleyes: )

Re-dug my positively ancient DHL thread, just clickety-click the fullstop in my sig for some ideas about phrasing correspondence to couriers when problems arise (see page 2 if things start to get out of hand )

ED E

Yeah, i pity you, mines still stuck too! Its only UPS that has these problems but RSOV has starting using them just before my order(36C 3 days before was SpeedPost from HK post). They could be wating on legal confirmation.

|I.R|PaddyPower

Not wanting to step on peoples toes but at this stage maybe its time for a bit of law vs ups.As far as i know it is illegal for anyone including ups to act as customs and detain anyones property without them breaking the law of the republic of Ireland they are not customs and they do not have this power.This is after you have clarifed and posted a copy of the 1j law to ups this is not the first time they have heard this and im sure it will not be the last.Im thinking that being English based ups are unsure of the law here and need a wake up call.Maybe you should call a solicitor and check what rights you have as a custumer and having your property siezed by them acting as customs.Just be carefull and make sure you explain to your solicitor whats happened and see what your rights are.Remember be nice and they will be getting no custom from any one here.Think we should have a big post on the forums for noobs and others telling them to not use ups big warning on the top of the forums should do not a topic just an announcement on the top.

Hope this helps but someone has to get tuff with these people.

kdouglas

from what i know, ups can and do seize stuff, it is then upto customs to assess whether or not it can be released

ambro25

kdouglas wrote: »

from what i know, ups can and do seize stuff, it is then upto customs to assess whether or not it can be released

If that is the way of things, then how come they've asked Judge_Dredd to get in touch with Customs/Dept of J. himself

Hivemind187

UPS have absolutely no right to sieze anything. They are a courier service not a duly appointed enforcement agency.

Its the same as when you default on a debt and it is passed to a collection agency, their letters may look fancy and threatenning but you are actually under no legal obligation to deal with them, nor do they have the legal authority to pressure you or seize any of your property in lieu of payment.

If UPS are acting in this manner it is most likely because someone at customs has asked them to do so without fuilly understanding the situation. I doubt very much that UPS, a multinational company, would be involved with something they have no legal right to do unless it is a mistake. Chances are that it is eithe a misunderstanding of the VCRA (the kind made in Hong Kong where they think Ireland is part of the UK) or it is a misunderstanding (or mis-informed) of the Irish firearms law.

ambro25

Hivemind187 wrote:

Chances are that it is eithe a misunderstanding of the VCRA (the kind made in Hong Kong where they think Ireland is part of the UK).

You may be onto something here: does anybody know if UPS Ireland is run from the UK / uses the "UPS UK" system?

Because AFAIK, DHL Ireland does (use the "DHL UK" system in IE)

Whereby this whole UPS rigmarole could be down to the VCRA 'ricocheting' in their system.

That might also explain why they told Judge_Dredd to get in touch with DoJ?

Fallschirmjager

ambro25 wrote: »

You may be onto something here: does anybody know if UPS Ireland is run from the UK / uses the "UK UPS" system?
Because AFAIK, DHL Ireland does.
Whereby this whole UPS rigmarole could be down to the VCRA 'ricocheting' in their system. That might also explain why they told Lethal to get in touch with DoJ?

hmmm...it did all start around the beginning of the vcra....good detective work there mr ambro...

Hivemind187

No idea Ambor, but its worth looking into.

Frankly this is all very strange and irritating.

Shiva

Hivemind187 wrote: »

UPS have absolutely no right to sieze anything. They are a courier service not a duly appointed enforcement agency.

Do they have the right to open a package and inspect its contents ?
I'm getting the impression UPS see its an AEG in the package, then contact customs.
But how do they know its an AEG ? All of the packages I've received from Rsov, eHobby, UNCompany and Redwolf were marked as toys - There's absolutely nothing on the packaging to indicate its an AEG.

Judge dredd

Just thought i would update you on whats happening......I contacted customs and all i got out of them confirmation of the changes to the firearms act and an e mail of it with a contact number.I then passed this on to UPS and since then (3:44pm yesterday) i have been stonewalled by UPS.no replies to e mails and nobody available when i ring.

I really am starting to run out of patience with UPS.:mad:

Shiva

Judge dredd wrote: »

Just thought i would update you on whats happening......I contacted customs and all i got out of them confirmation of the changes to the firearms act and an e mail of it with a contact number.I then passed this on to UPS and since then (3:44pm yesterday) i have been stonewalled by UPS.no replies to e mails and nobody available when i ring.

I really am starting to run out of patience with UPS.:mad:

Did customs acknowledge they'd been contacted by UPS ?

Seriously...if UPS started dicking around with one of my deliveries, the "its nice to be nice" attitude would last right up until I thought they were messing me about, then they'd be explaining themselves to a solicitor.

I haven't been affected by the UPS thing yet, but its starting to irritate me that they're pulling this crap, and apparently without any official sanction or repercussions.

H.O.T.A.S.

ambro25 wrote: »

You may be onto something here: does anybody know if UPS Ireland is run from the UK / uses the "UPS UK" system?

Because AFAIK, DHL Ireland does (use the "DHL UK" system in IE)

Whereby this whole UPS rigmarole could be down to the VCRA 'ricocheting' in their system.

That might also explain why they told Judge_Dredd to get in touch with DoJ?

I haven't worked for UPS or FedEx but the two companies I have worked for (TNT and DHL) are both registered as TNT/DHL UK & Ireland. It makes sense to have us lumped in with the UK as they are one of our biggest trading partners and we share a common language. But in terms of the VCRA affecting the import procedures I can't see this happening. Import procedures are down the particular country not geographical region.

Hivemind187

Shiva wrote: »

Do they have the right to open a package and inspect its contents ?
I'm getting the impression UPS see its an AEG in the package, then contact customs.
But how do they know its an AEG ? All of the packages I've received from Rsov, eHobby, UNCompany and Redwolf were marked as toys - There's absolutely nothing on the packaging to indicate its an AEG.

X-ray machines probably. In this day and age I would be surprise if everything isnt getting zapped at some point in its postal travels.

Hivemind187

Judge dredd wrote: »

Just thought i would update you on whats happening......I contacted customs and all i got out of them confirmation of the changes to the firearms act and an e mail of it with a contact number.I then passed this on to UPS and since then (3:44pm yesterday) i have been stonewalled by UPS.no replies to e mails and nobody available when i ring.

I really am starting to run out of patience with UPS.:mad:

Which change to the firearms law did they provide you with specifically? The 1 joule thing or something else?

Sometimes departments change their policies without informing anyone.

Shiva

Hivemind187 wrote: »

X-ray machines probably. In this day and age I would be surprise if everything isnt getting zapped at some point in its postal travels.

Aye, I suppose. I thought of that, but I was thinking the sheer volume of stuff they handle would preclude that.

ambro25

H.O.T.A.S. wrote:

I haven't worked for UPS or FedEx but the two companies I have worked for (TNT and DHL) are both registered as TNT/DHL UK & Ireland. It makes sense to have us lumped in with the UK as they are one of our biggest trading partners and we share a common language. But in terms of the VCRA affecting the import procedures I can't see this happening. Import procedures are down the particular country not geographical region.

Of course import procedures are down the particular country - my point is whether any "VCRA-accomodating upgrade" made to their 'UK & Ireland' system has percolated by accident into the Ireland part. E.g. the wrong bit checked, or flag set, in the upgrade code... As Falls rightly pointed out, this all seems to have started at about the time the VCRA came into force, and to my knowledge there hadn't been any issue with couriers beforehand, only the occasional inquiry by Customs.

Do UPS employees have the latitude to make an informed decision (e.g. if the above situation is what's happened, can they realise "Oh Wait, that's UK only" and override) or must it to be "computer seeez" every time?

(have a read of my DHL thread (click on full stop next to question mark in my sig), to see how f*cked up things can get with overreliance on IT systems vs common sense: I was threatened by a debt collection agency over a customs bill for an import that was never imported in the first place!)

H.O.T.A.S.

Shiva wrote: »

Do they have the right to open a package and inspect its contents ?
I'm getting the impression UPS see its an AEG in the package, then contact customs.
But how do they know its an AEG ? All of the packages I've received from Rsov, eHobby, UNCompany and Redwolf were marked as toys - There's absolutely nothing on the packaging to indicate its an AEG.

All courier companies reserve the right to inspect packages under their standard conditions of carriage. Basically they reserve the right to open your package but are not under any obligation to due so (unless they feel a need to physically inspect the package or are instructed to by an offical government agency) If they wish to inspect the package they are not liable for any damage or delay. Once the shipper (in this case the company your are buying the airsofting goods off) signs the courier Airway Bill the agree to the courier's terms and conditions.

Judge dredd

it was the 1 joule change.Have just gotten through to UPS by contacting their European Headquaters(Belgium) who were very helpful and put me through to somebody in Dublin.Just waiting for them to ring me back.Have the copy of the 1 joule law beside me and my happy voice ready:D.

Fallschirmjager

Judge dredd wrote: »

it was the 1 joule change.Have just gotten through to UPS by contacting their European Headquaters(Belgium) who were very helpful and put me through to somebody in Dublin.Just waiting for them to ring me back.Have the copy of the 1 joule law beside me and my happy voice ready:D.

good luck dredd, fight the good fight bro...

CrazyRabbit

Judge dredd wrote: »

Just thought i would update you on whats happening......I contacted customs and all i got out of them confirmation of the changes to the firearms act and an e mail of it with a contact number.I then passed this on to UPS and since then (3:44pm yesterday) i have been stonewalled by UPS.no replies to e mails and nobody available when i ring.

I really am starting to run out of patience with UPS.:mad:

Pay them a visit:

United Parcel Service of Ireland LTD
M50 Business Park
Ballymount Real Estate
Dublin 12
Ireland (Republic of)
Customer Service: 1-800-57-57-57


Dublin
Unit 3
Mygan Park
Jamestown Road
Finglas, Dublin 11
Ireland (Republic of)
Customer Service: 1-800-57-57-57

ambro25

Just to confirm... or sprinkle a little sea salt in Judge's wounds

My SIG was delivered an instant ago by EMS/AnPost, entirely unmolested.
Duty = €0
VAT charged at standard rate = €32 all-in

Fallschirmjager

ambro25 wrote: »

Just to confirm... or sprinkle a little sea salt in Judge's wounds

My SIG was delivered an instant ago by EMS/AnPost, entirely unmolested.
Duty = €0
VAT charged at standard rate = €32 all-in

delighted for you bro...really cant wait to see it you lucky sod

ambro25

Fallschirmjager wrote: »

delighted for you bro...really cant wait to see it you lucky sod

Really can't put it into words

Put it that way: compared to a DBoys M4A1 full-metal, or a Galaxy MP7... it's 110% teh sexeh, they'd be about a mild turn-on :cool:

Judge dredd

seem to be getting somewhere now.UPS are holding it in bond for Customs and the Justice Dept have asked for the specs of the M14 to determine whether or not a license is needed.the specs state that it fires at 340fps(0.20g 6mm bb)dont know how this will affect the delay,just keeping fingers crossed at the moment.

Hivemind187

Judge dredd wrote: »

seem to be getting somewhere now.UPS are holding it in bond for Customs and the Justice Dept have asked for the specs of the M14 to determine whether or not a license is needed.the specs state that it fires at 340fps(0.20g 6mm bb)dont know how this will affect the delay,just keeping fingers crossed at the moment.

Ahhhhhhh ... 340fps with .2g BB is over the 1joule limit I'm afraid. Itwould be a first for this to have ben enforced by customs (that we would be aware of) but it certainly could be the reason for the delays and contacts with the DoJ.

I'm afraid you may have brought this on yourself.

xFROSTY Gx

Judge. The limit is 1j which is 328fps with 0.2g bb

ED E

You could be really in for it!

bullets

A lot of the AEG's I have got came with the battery in a semi-charged
state. (not fully charged) If you had the luck of the Irish and they
plugged it in and tested it the battery may well be weak enough to
fire the BB's out at a perfectly legal fps.

I wonder what kind of tests they go through when its sent for testing.
will they charge a battery to full, will the take multiple readings and average
it out, will they bother to charge the battery and wait hours for the crappy
charger that came with it, will they just work off a written spec that says
its under or over a limit.

~B

ED E

Battery affects ROF not fps!

Shiva

Lethal_Bullet wrote: »

Battery affects ROF not fps!

It'll affect FPS if the charge is low enough - you'll usually only get 5 or 6 shots on semi with one of the batteries that comes with a clone if you try it out of the box, and the power is significantly reduced.

Fallschirmjager

well i will keep my fingers crossed for you dude...i know its 328, but jeasus its not like its 500fps, you are only slightly over...with a bit of luck they might say its too close to call...

as bullets says, the big question is how do they know its over ??