Oscar Wilde & Spike Milligan: Irish or British?

Mizu_Ger

Saw this on Yahoo: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071015/en_nm/britain_wittiest_dc

LONDON (Reuters) - Playwright Oscar Wilde, who even managed to mutter on his death bed "Either those curtains go or I do," was named in a poll on Monday as Britain's greatest wit.

He captured 20 percent of the vote, just two points ahead of comedian Spike Milligan, who had engraved on his tombstone the epitaph "I told you I was ill."

So are they considered Irish or British? Wilde definitely was (and I thought that everyone considered him Irish too) and Milligan was (sort of).

arybvtcw0eolkf

Didn't Spike claim to be Irish, although born in India?.

(I'll wiki them in a minute)

Mizu_Ger

Mairt wrote: »

Didn't Spike claim to be Irish, although born in India?.

(I'll wiki them in a minute)

Yeah, seems that he couldn't get a British passport (wouldn't take the oath of allegiance) and got an irish one instead (his Da's from Sligo).

Jesus Wept

The story on yahoo is carried by Reuters.

Link to Reuters Feedback

Hydroquinone

In Oscar Wilde's lifetime, Ireland was British, surely? So by that token, he was Irish and British, same as a person in Scotland today is Scottish and British or someone from Cardiff is Welsh as well as British.

As for Milligan, he had the choice and chose Irish, as has been said.

Jesus Wept

Hydroquinone wrote: »

In Oscar Wilde's lifetime, Ireland was British, surely? So by that token, he was Irish and British, same as a person in Scotland today is Scottish and British or someone from Cardiff is Welsh as well as British.

As for Milligan, he had the choice and chose Irish, as has been said.

According to who?? The British?

Mizu_Ger

Its a fair point. Wilde's passport (did they have passports back then?) would have been British, so...

Mahatma coat

Oscar Wilde was absolutley Irish, but shunned by the Irish in his lifetime.

Spike Milligan was Irish by choice, thats good enough for me

Fratton Fred

I guess both could (like about 10 milion other people) be Irish, British or both.

I would have said that Wilde was more Irish than British and Spike more British than Irish, but does it make any difference?

Hagar

Fratton Fred wrote: »

...but does it make any difference?

It does if your name is Stephen Fry.
He has been done out of his rightful place as the Greatest British Wit by two bloody foreigners.

cornbb

Hydroquinone wrote: »

In Oscar Wilde's lifetime, Ireland was British, surely? So by that token, he was Irish and British, same as a person in Scotland today is Scottish and British or someone from Cardiff is Welsh as well as British.

I think you're right actually. Well, he was Irish, and at the time being Irish also meant being British. So I suppose he was both.

This is all technically/politically speaking of course. What he identified himself as would be an entirely different matter.

Fratton Fred

Hagar wrote: »

It does if your name is Stephen Fry.
He has been done out of his rightful place as the Greatest British Wit by two bloody foreigners.

I'm sure Stephen fry would not object to being behind Oscar Wilde

dodgyme

They are both Irish. Milligan even told someone to F%%k off when he was called british and wilde was irish, no question. His mother was a raving republican in a way only the aristocrats can be.

Giblet

Duirt me leat go raibh me breoite

humbert

Hehe, Margaret Thatcher was ranked as the funniest woman!

Fratton Fred

I've just lifted these off Wiki. Some of Spike's quotes

"When I look back, the fondest memory I have is not really of the Goons. It is of a girl called Julia with enormous breasts."

Of his honorary CBE — "I can't see the sense in it really. It makes me a Commander of the British Empire. They might as well make me a Commander of Milton Keynes — at least that exists."

On his bouts of clinical depression — "It's the nature of who you are. You will see sunsets in a special way, you will see life in a special way. The Milligans are like Arab racehorses. We'll kick the stable to pieces, but we'll always win the race."

Of heaven — "I'd like to go there. But if Jeffrey Archer is there, I want to go to Lewisham."

Genius:D

purple'n'gold

Technically speaking Oscar Wilde was British, same as Michael Collins, PH Pearse or Sean McKeown. They were citizens of the United Kingdom.

boneless

purplengold wrote: »

Technically speaking Oscar Wilde was British, same as Michael Collins, PH Pearse or Sean McKeown. They were citizens of the United Kingdom.

They were subjects, not citizens. Sure wasn't that what the row was about??

kevmy

Giblet wrote: »

Duirt me leat go raibh me breoite

Reuters wrote:

He captured 20 percent of the vote, just two points ahead of comedian Spike Milligan, who had engraved on his tombstone the epitaph "I told you I was ill."

Somebody obviously translated it for them.

Hagar

humbert wrote: »

Hehe, Margaret Thatcher was ranked as the funniest woman!

Margaret Thatcher was a woman. :eek:

Dimplesgirl

The British always say things like that - claiming people are theirs.
Barry McGuigan for example : Whenever he won a fight it was a proud day for Britain, but whenever he lost it was a sad day for Ireland. Sure, apparantly Colin Farrell is British according to one of those ridiculous 'fabulous life of' type shows !

Hagar

Any chance they would take Daniel O'Donnell off our hands?

DublinWriter

The-Rigger wrote: »

According to who?? The British?

Yes. The 1801 Act of Union brought England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales under the banner and flag of the United Kingdom, the Union Jack.

Under the act, Ireland was renamed 'West Briton', and that's were the derogatory term 'West Brit' comes from.

So technically, Wilde was both Irish and British, in the way that we today can claim to be both Irish and European.

When Wilde went to Oxford, he tried to disguise the hints of his Irish accent. His mother was proud of being Irish and used to call him "my brave Irish boy" during his later trial.

Ponster

Are Irish people born in Ireland before 1922 entitled to British passports ?

Can you have dual Irish/British nationality ?

The Hill Billy

Ponster wrote: »

Are Irish people born in Ireland before 1922 entitled to British passports ?

Can you have dual Irish/British nationality ?

IIRC - If you or one of your parents were born before Ireland left the Commonwealth (1947?) you may qualify for a British passport.

purple'n'gold

boneless wrote: »

They were subjects, not citizens. Sure wasn't that what the row was about??

They were subjects and citizens, just like the people of Yorkshire. Michael Collins was successful in the civil service exam and worked in the post office in London.

purple'n'gold

Quiet a lot of people on different forums here seem to be in denial that we were part of the United Kingdom from 1801 to 1922. it’s a fact, we were, so get over it and move on.

Gauge

Dimplesgirl wrote: »

The British always say things like that - claiming people are theirs.
Barry McGuigan for example : Whenever he won a fight it was a proud day for Britain, but whenever he lost it was a sad day for Ireland. Sure, apparantly Colin Farrell is British according to one of those ridiculous 'fabulous life of' type shows !

Haha, I'd forgotten about the tendency to claim Colin Farrell as British:

KATE THORNTON: Now lets talk about Colin because in the UK he’s become the man of the moment.

SAMUEL L.JACKSON: Really? Only in the UK?

KT: Well everywhere but we kind of claim him as our own because he’s from Ireland.

SLJ: You can’t claim him because he’s from Ireland.

KT: Well we do because it’s close by. (laughter)

SLJ: Ok. That’s the source of all the conflict over there. You people always claiming the Irish as yours. We got a little problem just like that here called slavery but that’s ok we don’t need to talk about that so lets go. (more laughter)

Terry

Ponster wrote: »

Are Irish people born in Ireland before 1922 entitled to British passports ?

Can you have dual Irish/British nationality ?

Hill Billy wrote: »

IIRC - If you or one of your parents were born before Ireland left the Commonwealth (1947?) you may qualify for a British passport.

1948.

Wilde was born and died before the creation of this state.
He was technically a British subject.
Milligan chose to be Irish.

leninbenjamin

Dimplesgirl wrote: »

The British always say things like that - claiming people are theirs.
Barry McGuigan for example : Whenever he won a fight it was a proud day for Britain, but whenever he lost it was a sad day for Ireland. Sure, apparantly Colin Farrell is British according to one of those ridiculous 'fabulous life of' type shows !

yeah i was gonna make that point til ya beat me too it. sure the English have always been claiming. it's all they are really good at tbh.

slightly different: but we always hear the English bragging about how the cracked the mighty enigma machine which allowed them to decipher the German codes and win WWII. what they never say though was that the bulk of the initial breakthrough's were made by the Polish at a time when the english weren't really arsed about what the German's did. and then of Turing, the guy who did the bulk of the work for the english, sure wasn't he persecuted as a homosexual after the war and ended up committing suicide (or assassinated depending on what your read) at the inhumane treatment he was given?

i love the English and their pompousness, they really make for a good laugh at times.

Hagar

Am I right in thinking that anybody who's parent(s) were born in Ireland prior to 1/1/1949 can claim British citizenship by descent ie child of a British subject?

That would cover a huge chunk of the population if it were true.

leninbenjamin

Gauge wrote: »

Haha, I'd forgotten about the tendency to claim Colin Farrell as British:

KATE THORNTON: Now lets talk about Colin because in the UK he’s become the man of the moment.

SAMUEL L.JACKSON: Really? Only in the UK?

KT: Well everywhere but we kind of claim him as our own because he’s from Ireland.

SLJ: You can’t claim him because he’s from Ireland.

KT: Well we do because it’s close by. (laughter)

SLJ: Ok. That’s the source of all the conflict over there. You people always claiming the Irish as yours. We got a little problem just like that here called slavery but that’s ok we don’t need to talk about that so lets go. (more laughter)

LOL i spend ages trying to remember that when i saw this thread first!! it was hilarious to watch.

Terry

Hagar wrote: »

Am I right in thinking that anybody who's parent(s) were born in Ireland prior to 1/1/1949 can claim British citizenship by descent ie child of a British subject?

That would cover a huge chunk of the population if it were true.

I don't know about that.

I know people who themselves were born prior to that date are entitled to a British passport. Not sure about their children.

If it is the case, then I'm entitled to one.

Gauge

Gauge wrote: »

Haha, I'd forgotten about the tendency to claim Colin Farrell as British:

KATE THORNTON: Now lets talk about Colin because in the UK he’s become the man of the moment.

SAMUEL L.JACKSON: Really? Only in the UK?

KT: Well everywhere but we kind of claim him as our own because he’s from Ireland.

SLJ: You can’t claim him because he’s from Ireland.

KT: Well we do because it’s close by. (laughter)

SLJ: Ok. That’s the source of all the conflict over there. You people always claiming the Irish as yours. We got a little problem just like that here called slavery but that’s ok we don’t need to talk about that so lets go. (more laughter)

What chammel was this interview on?Is it real?

purple'n'gold

Hagar wrote: »

Am I right in thinking that anybody who's parent(s) were born in Ireland prior to 1/1/1949 can claim British citizenship by descent ie child of a British subject?

That would cover a huge chunk of the population if it were true.

Don't know if this answers the question or not.
http://www.castlebar.ie/board/0403/65688.htm

baztard

They're Irish when their gay and depressed. They're British when their funny and famous.

Fratton Fred

Dimplesgirl wrote: »

The British always say things like that - claiming people are theirs.
Barry McGuigan for example : Whenever he won a fight it was a proud day for Britain, but whenever he lost it was a sad day for Ireland. Sure, apparantly Colin Farrell is British according to one of those ridiculous 'fabulous life of' type shows !

Bobby Kennedy.

Nuff said.

Fratton Fred

baztard wrote: »

They're Irish when their gay and depressed. They're British when their funny and famous.

when they fight for the British Army, they're traitors and west brits, when they win wittiest Briton awards they're Irish.

Go Figure:D

ejmaztec

I expect that when St Patrick was around, the Christians adopted him as Irish but the pagans regarded him as a British bast*rd!

How times have changed, not:D

Ponster

Terry wrote: »

I don't know about that.

I know people who themselves were born prior to that date are entitled to a British passport. Not sure about their children.

If it is the case, then I'm entitled to one.

AFAIK you are entitled to one but one (or both?) of your parents would have to apply for British citizenship first.

This was once suggested to me by a UK/French Defence company who said that with an Irish passport I'd be very lucky to get a job with them in the timeframe alloted (due to background checks - my dad was in the Irish army) but if my dad became British then I could get a British passport and avoid all the trouble.

purple'n'gold

baztard wrote: »

They're Irish when their gay and depressed. They're British when their funny and famous.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but there is only one gay person in the world, he lives in a village in Wales.

Tar.Aldarion

Are people born in Australia British?

Mizu_Ger

Gauge wrote: »

Haha, I'd forgotten about the tendency to claim Colin Farrell as British:

KATE THORNTON: Now lets talk about Colin because in the UK he’s become the man of the moment.

SAMUEL L.JACKSON: Really? Only in the UK?

KT: Well everywhere but we kind of claim him as our own because he’s from Ireland.

SLJ: You can’t claim him because he’s from Ireland.

KT: Well we do because it’s close by. (laughter)

SLJ: Ok. That’s the source of all the conflict over there. You people always claiming the Irish as yours. We got a little problem just like that here called slavery but that’s ok we don’t need to talk about that so lets go. (more laughter)

Was this interview in print/radio or TV? If its TV is it on youtube?

humanji

Mizu_Ger wrote: »

Was this interview in print/radio or TV? If its TV is it on youtube?

Why don't you find out?

robinph

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Are people born in Australia British?

They became "independant" a lot earlier I think didn't they, 190? I think?

Fratton Fred

robinph wrote: »

They became "independant" a lot earlier I think didn't they, 190? I think?

Australia is not as attractive to the Brits, so it was let go sooner.

Sydney is too far to go for a stag weekend:D

Fizman

Both Wilde and Milligan are Polish.....duh!!

Jesus Wept

DublinWriter wrote: »

Yes. The 1801 Act of Union brought England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales under the banner and flag of the United Kingdom, the Union Jack.

Under the act, Ireland was renamed 'West Briton', and that's were the derogatory term 'West Brit' comes from.

So technically, Wilde was both Irish and British, in the way that we today can claim to be both Irish and European.

When Wilde went to Oxford, he tried to disguise the hints of his Irish accent. His mother was proud of being Irish and used to call him "my brave Irish boy" during his later trial.

You couldn't miss the point more if you tried.

I mean, you believe that the people of Ireland were British during this time and magically changed back once we became a republic? Life doesn't work like that.

What did the people consider themselves? I imagine some would of said Brits and the majority would of said Irish.


What you're saying is akin too:


[hypothetical]

Take a carton of milk. Change the label so it reads 'Orange Juice' and voila, it's orange juice!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

It's not, it's still milk, it's white, its milky, it comes from a cow, it's still milk, and if were capable of speaking for itself, and you asked it, it would tell you so.

[/hypothetical]


Do I understand why Wilde is reported as British? Yes, do I agree with it? Not really, you would have to ask him what he considered himself, if it were possible, imo.

purple'n'gold

There is a teenage boy somewhere in Mexico at this very moment wishing he was an American living in a penthouse in New York. Does this make him a citizen of the United States?

ejmaztec

purplengold wrote: »

There is a teenage boy somewhere in Mexico at this very moment wishing he was an American living in a penthouse in New York. Does this make him a citizen of the United States?

Depends on whether he has any trouble getting his suitcases full of cocaine across the border.

baztard

Fratton Fred wrote: »

when they fight for the British Army, they're traitors and west brits, when they win wittiest Briton awards they're Irish.

Go Figure:D

No they were Irish before and after some magazine or whatever said they were witty. Go figure that lad