steroid use in rugby

maradona10

any views on the prevalence of steroid use in irish rugby or abroad. i dont believe for a minute that its all protein drinks and vitamins they're on

zAbbo

Jim Glennon was harping on about drug use in todays Indo.

Just because they're not caught, doesn't mean it's not happening.

I don't find it 'unbelievable' that professional sportsmen can bulk up to the sizes some of these players are.

With correct & dedicated training it's certainly achievable

antog86

I would be sceptical! Joe Rocka....at 16 1/2 stone on the wing for New Zealand and running 100metres in 10.5 seconds. Now that sounds a little suspect............

What happens all these players when they retire. I reckon we will see a huge amount of heart attacks amongst retired proffessional's in years to come......

Sandwich

Rampant Id say, but probably adds to the game as a spectator sport at the top level. 176 tests carried out so far in the World Cup and no positives, so its being well controlled by the players and staff from from a PR point of view.

antog86

Sandwich wrote: »

Rampant Id say, but probably adds to the game as a spectator sport at the top level. 176 tests carried out so far in the World Cup and no positives, so its being well controlled by the players and staff from from a PR point of view.

Agree with you. Id say the rules on what they can and cant use and how much of something they can use are pretty loose. PR at its best!

Stev_o

antog86 wrote: »

I would be sceptical! Joe Rocka....at 16 1/2 stone on the wing for New Zealand and running 100metres in 10.5 seconds. Now that sounds a little suspect............

What happens all these players when they retire. I reckon we will see a huge amount of heart attacks amongst retired proffessional's in years to come......

Well have you seen what these guys nutrition and training is like? They are under strict diets which would have a high protein count in them. Iv had pro's talk to me about it they say that they eat non stop 24 hours. For example they have to wake up at 3 or 4 in the morning and eat a big sandwich as they would loose weight while sleeping

antog86

Stev_o wrote: »

Well have you seen what these guys nutrition and training is like? They are under strict diets which would have a high protein count in them. Iv had pro's talk to me about it they say that they eat non stop 24 hours. For example they have to wake up at 3 or 4 in the morning and eat a big sandwich as they would loose weight while sleeping

You may be right. but i doubt it is sandwhiches they eat. Not exactly the ideal food for training etc Maybe pasta etc

thirtyfoot

Classic armchair punditary to suggest that steroids are rampant in rugby and that its a big conspiracy to keep it quiet. What are you basing this on? Are you living/training with an elite rugby player? Have you been an elite rugby player? I'd be very surprised if steroids were used by top rugby players and to suggest that the testing procedures are 'loose' is hilarious. I'd say 176 tests and no positives is a clear indication that ped's are not used in high level rugby.

Some people will never be convinced, you test and there are positives and there is an outcry (justifiably) while if you test and there are no positives its a cover up. Can't win really.

Jackz

Is it not the case that after each test players are drawn at random to go to the drug testing room?

antog86

Jackz wrote: »

Is it not the case that after each test players are drawn at random to go to the drug testing room?

Yes that would more than likely be the case, however, my point is:
Just because they drug test the players does not mean that they catch them. There has been quite a few examples of this down through the years.Because of the money involved in doping and the potential benefits they are usually a couple of years ahead of the authorities. Also i reckon the amount of substances allowed in the blood in rugby may be quite a lot!

Raskolnikov

Tingle wrote: »

I'd say 176 tests and no positives is a clear indication that ped's are not used in high level rugby.

With many performance-enhancing drugs, all traces of the drug can be passed through the body within days of its last use. It's entirely possible that many athlete's could have been doped up to the gills in the preparations before the World Cup began. By the time it comes for testing, the drugs are out of their systems.

Look at Marion Jones, she ran for several years at the top-level and doubtless had several drug-tests. It took a confession from her rather than concrete proof to show she had been doped to the gills all along.

antog86

Raskolnikov wrote: »

With many performance-enhancing drugs, all traces of the drug can be passed through the body within days of its last use. It's entirely possible that many athlete's could have been doped up to the gills in the preparations before the World Cup began. By the time it comes for testing, the drugs are out of their systems.

Look at Marion Jones, she ran for several years at the top-level and doubtless had several drug-tests. It took a confession from her rather than concrete proof to show she had been doped to the gills all along.

well put!

nacho libre

i don't think there is a grand conspiracy to keep steroid use quiet, but on the other hand it's naive to think because every player is passing tests that everyone is therefore clean. it is possible that some players are beating the tests. There will always be individuals, no matter what sport it is, who will seek to have an unfair advantage and will go to any lengths to achieve it.

empirix

Steroids for sale - 3 pilss for a fiver or 8 for a tenner, six week course of injections for 100 nicker with 1 weekk free - only while stocks last. Contact me: cheatersareok@gmail.com

Santa Claus

antog86 wrote: »

I would be sceptical! Joe Rocka....at 16 1/2 stone on the wing for New Zealand and running 100metres in 10.5 seconds. Now that sounds a little suspect............

Look at your average South pacific islander such as Joe, they're massive...that's just the way they come.
Look at the Fijian team in the cup, their back row are built like forwards and their forwards are built like heavy machinery !

Stev_o wrote: »

Well have you seen what these guys nutrition and training is like? They are under strict diets which would have a high protein count in them. Iv had pro's talk to me about it they say that they eat non stop 24 hours. For example they have to wake up at 3 or 4 in the morning and eat a big sandwich as they would loose weight while sleeping

The average international standard player would burn about 1500 calories sleeping at night due to the amount of muscle they're carrying and the energy it takes to maintain that muscle mass!

Everyone said the same thing about Lomu and steroids and then claimed that his kidney transplant was because of steroid abuse (it wasn't, he has Nephrotic Syndrome).
I'm not saying there is no steroid abuse in Rugby but there's certainly very little among the elite international teams !

cavedave

I find with hunts against perfomance enhancing drug users odd because
1. Loads of people use performance enhancing drugs in their jobs. Without coffee not many programs would be written.
2. Spectation enhancing drug uses is rampant. Beer is not illegal though.
3. We benefit from performance enhancing drugs. The amount of stuff that was invented by guys who were off their mash is huge. (DNA's structure, PCR, Erdos). Almost all your albums were made by guys who were on performance enhancing drugs
4. Imagine you are about to retire and wanted to earn as much for your family as you could before you did. You pick up an injury 6 weeks before the world cup. With steroid use you can make it back without it you cannot. Unless you have had to make that choice it is difficult to judge someone who made the wrong choice.

Having said that rugby is different to cycling or some such sport. If you cheat in cycling you rob from clean athletes and damage your health. In combat sports though it is possible you will damage someone else's health. So while I do not usually care about someone juicing up when they might run through someone who is clean you do have to make serious efforts to stop drug use.

wireless101

My chemistry teacher said that Lomu is f*ucked up now because of taking anabolic steroids

thirtyfoot

Raskolnikov wrote: »

With many performance-enhancing drugs, all traces of the drug can be passed through the body within days of its last use. It's entirely possible that many athlete's could have been doped up to the gills in the preparations before the World Cup began. By the time it comes for testing, the drugs are out of their systems.

Look at Marion Jones, she ran for several years at the top-level and doubtless had several drug-tests. It took a confession from her rather than concrete proof to show she had been doped to the gills all along.

All Irish rugby drug tests were performed out of competition last year so if players were cheating its likely they would be caught as these tests are performed throughout the season and not just at world cup, 6n's etc.

Regarding Jones, the dogs in the streets knew she was cheating for years, the whole olympic village in Sydney knew days before the CJ Hunter story broke in the media that he was guilty and from then on there were doubts about Jones. I know of no rumours or doubts of Irish rugby players in Ireland.

The authorities hear rumours and act on these and actively try and catch the cheaters, eg, Al Guy arriving at Michelle Smith's door at the crack of dawn.

mikeruurds

empirix wrote: »

Steroids for sale - 3 pilss for a fiver or 8 for a tenner, six week course of injections for 100 nicker with 1 weekk free - only while stocks last. Contact me: cheatersareok@gmail.com

Hey dude. That email doesn't work. PM me.

Just kidding

zAbbo

wireless101 wrote: »

My chemistry teacher said that Lomu is f*ucked up now because of taking anabolic steroids

Your chemistry teacher is speculating through his or her ringpiece tbh.

Lomu was a genetic freak, and there's no evidence that he was using steroids, he was massive by the time he was 18.

philstar

zabbo wrote: »

Lomu was a genetic freak, and there's no evidence that he was using steroids, he was massive by the time he was 18.

yes polynesian & maori people are naturally big.

AlphaMale 3OO

Lots of people are just throwing uninformed opinions around here willy nilly. The fact is you need testosterone or some derivitave of it to build lean muscle tissue. In our teens he have a strong, steady supply of the hormone and our muscle building capability from the ages of 15-20 is considerable. From 21 onwards the amount of natural testosterone we produce reduces gradually for the rest of our lives. You DO NOT have the required amount in your mid to late 20's to attain dramatic muscular change, particularly if your muscles have been exposed to years of weight training as many rugby players have been. This is why we have seen Marcus Horan attempt to increase his weight and gain nothing but....fat. I would wager he is clean. This is why athletes turn to steroids. Steroids are being used in sport and players are finding clever ways to hide it because the average detection time of a testosterone, of which there are many kinds, is three months.

toomevara

The tests used by the IRB are wholly inadequate. The problem is they're not testing for the right substances. The major issue is human growth hormone which is naturally produced in the body and very difficult to detect if administered properly and new synthetic substances like those produced on the quiet by the likes of BALCO laboratories.

You can't test for a drug if you don't know (or in the case of the international olympic committee, don't want to know) it exists, which is essentially why Marion Jones et al got away with their systematic doping for so long. It was only when a disgruntled former employee spilled the beans on their latest pharmacuetical creations that authorities wised up and caught these guys.

It goes on in rugby, no doubt. The only question is one of scale, and frankly, if other professional sports are an indicator, and there's no reason why they shouldnt be, doping whether systematic or intermittent is likely to be relatively prevalent.

vorbis

I'd be of the opinion that its fairly common. Obviously diets are much better now but the comparsion between the amateur and professional era are vast.

Most bodybuilding guides (I'm no expert btw) suggest 3 - 4 weight sessions a week is optimum. You need some rest between sessions. I'm sure some amateur players had a good training schedule as well and would have been well able to get to the gym for 3 - 4 sessions. Add to that though the aerobic exercise required for rugby and you struggle to believe that rugby players are at their current size naturally.

toomevara

A certain N.Hemisphere team seem of late to have gone from being relatively lightweight, fast mauling, fast rucking to monstrous leviathan size within a single off season...hmmmm.....

wireless101

zabbo wrote: »

Your chemistry teacher is speculating through his or her ringpiece tbh.

Lomu was a genetic freak, and there's no evidence that he was using steroids, he was massive by the time he was 18.

Ya, my teacher is probably wrong.

Anyone know a good place on the internet where I can get info on him?

Incidentally, is he still playing rugby?

RuggieBear

let's try to keep players names out of this....

Santa Claus

wireless101 wrote: »

Ya, my teacher is probably wrong.

Anyone know a good place on the internet where I can get info on him?

Incidentally, is he still playing rugby?

See my original post below about Lomu. He has a genetic kidney disorder so tell your chemistry teacher to stick to talking about bunsen burners and pipettes.
He left the Cardiff blues to go back to NZ and try to get some super 14 rugby and hope to be in the all blacks for this world cup however he only played for North Harbour in the Air new zealand cup and no super 14 club would take him on.
He's at the world cup with adidas at the moment and could be see in the stand at the Arg Boks game.

As for info on him, you could try wikipedia but as whether it'll be accurate is another story!

Santa Claus wrote: »

Look at your average South pacific islander such as Joe, they're massive...that's just the way they come.
Look at the Fijian team in the cup, their back row are built like forwards and their forwards are built like heavy machinery !

Everyone said the same thing about Lomu and steroids and then claimed that his kidney transplant was because of steroid abuse (it wasn't, he has Nephrotic Syndrome).

Supercell

forbesii wrote: »

Lots of people are just throwing uninformed opinions around here willy nilly. The fact is you need testosterone or some derivitave of it to build lean muscle tissue.
You DO NOT have the required amount in your mid to late 20's to attain dramatic muscular change, particularly if your muscles have been exposed to years of weight training as many rugby players have been.

Foresii, these are pretty wild claims tbh, I'm no medic but I'm certain the guys on the fitness forum would rip these allegations to shreds!

I'm 36 and believe me I am putting on muscle where there was only fat before and its pretty dramatic by following a good training programme with weights and running.

I used to be a tight head prop, believe me..I used to lean in a lot..there wasn't a whole lot of weight training going on there - so no "muscle memory".

That said I've always been a bit hot headed, maybe I've an excess naturally of testosterstuff in me loins anyhow

AlphaMale 3OO

Longfield wrote: »

Foresii, these are pretty wild claims tbh, I'm no medic but I'm certain the guys on the fitness forum would rip these allegations to shreds!

I'm 36 and believe me I am putting on muscle where there was only fat before and its pretty dramatic by following a good training programme with weights and running.

I used to be a tight head prop, believe me..I used to lean in a lot..there wasn't a whole lot of weight training going on there - so no "muscle memory".

That said I've always been a bit hot headed, maybe I've an excess naturally of testosterstuff in me loins anyhow

There are only a handful of guys on the fitness forum who are well informed on the steroid issue. As for gaining muscle at an older age, I didn't say it can't be done, I said its difficult to attain dramatic muscular change within the space of time that this particular player did it. A 28 year old man cannot gain 20 lbs of muscle in 2 months naturally. This is simply impossible, believe me I am informed on the subject and it just doesn't happen and anyone who says it is possible is either lying, misinformed or have tried it and are including the inevitable fat tissue gained as part of their '20 lbs of muscle'. With steroids this is easily attainable. the team have gotten too big too fast and they do not have superior fitness resources at their disposal in comparison to all the other teams.

EDIT: And I've just read our post again and it seems this was the first time you've taken up weights? (no muscle memory). That would explain why your body has been more reactive to the stimulus your subjecting it to. But I may be misunderstanding you.

RuggieBear

lets not be too specific with allegations of steroid abuse please.