Weight training.....

MagicMarker

Just a couple of quick questions for all you experts....

When weight training, how many exercises would you include for each muscle group?

If you were doing your chest, what would you do besides the obvious bench press?

I ventured into the weights area of my gym today and to be honest fell in love with lifting, i hadn't done it in years and now i want to organize a proper weights programme. My short term goals are to just tone up as i'm in the process of loosing weight and i know i can't bulk at the same time....

mack1

Personally I usually do 2 or 3 exercises per muscle group per week.

So for chest for example, bench & fly, maybe mix it up a bit with incline bench every 2nd session or something.

Look at exrx.net, will show loads of exercises to do categorised by muscle.

Enjoy!

BossArky

From what I've heard you could do the following as assistance exercises for your bench:

lateral dumbbell raises
front dumbbell raises
military press
dumbbell fly
bent over rows

Also, don't neglect your back and traps. If you just work your chest you will end up pulling your shoulders forward. Do loads of rows and reverse fly stuff to pull the shoulders back.

Hanley

BossArky wrote:

From what I've heard you could do the following as assistance exercises for your bench:

lateral dumbbell raises
front dumbbell raises
military press
dumbbell fly
bent over rows

Also, don't neglect your back and traps. If you just work your chest you will end up pulling your shoulders forward. Do loads of rows and reverse fly stuff to pull the shoulders back.

There's a lot of things I'd pick over the above for my bench..

Dumbbell Bench Press (flat and incline)
Incline Press
Military Press
Seated Dumbbell Press
Chest supported row
Pull Ups

Would be my choices.

Colm_OReilly

It's a mistake to think in terms of muscles. Better to train movements instead, and movements that use more of your body or move a load a greater distance are generally better.

Your workouts should definitely include the squat and the deadlift. In addition there's shoulder presses and it's variations (push press, push jerk, split jerk), bench, pull ups, dips, (weighted). Variations on the squat (back, front and overhead) will help.

Your routine should be built around movements like these.

Any other questions just ask,
Colm

BossArky

!!

I thought I was passing on the advice you gave me a few weeks back. Soz must have got my exercises mixed up.

MagicMarker

ok, how about putting the question a little different...

What exercises do people here do for their own workouts... what do they think is best for them?

Hanley

BossArky wrote:

!!

I thought I was passing on the advice you gave me a few weeks back. Soz must have got my exercises mixed up.

I was actually gonna post what I said to you up... So here's an extract for all to see;

I train my upper back or lats every single time I'm in the gym. Usually with 8 sets. I firmly believe that if your back is strong, everything else will flow from there. Strong lats=strong bench, strong upper back=strong squat and deadlift. The upper back is ultra important when it comes to keeping in posiiton for squats and pulls.

I like to set my spilt up something like this;

Day 1: Deadlift + assistance
Day 2: Light bench/dumbbell presses, heavy shoulders, tricep extenstions
Day 3: Squats + assistance
Day 4: Heavy bench, Some form of heavy lockout work, light shoulder raise (front, side or bent over)

Then lat/upper back work on all of the days.

As you can everything is hit quite often. Strength isn't just build by hammering to failure every session. The more often you can train and build up the muscles that do the work, the better your lifts will be. In my exp.

Does all that make sense?

PS: You obviously need to be eating a fairly high amount of kcals to support a workload like the above. I certainly don't think I'd be capable of it on a kcal deficit.

The raises are a very minor part of the overall thing. they're just there to get a bit of extra volume in and to keep everything balance. Dropping them altogether wouldn't have a huge effect in all likelihood (sp).

The reason I don't like Bent Over Rows is because they put a hell of a lot of stress on your lower back after squatting and deadlifting already during the week. When I first started training I got away with it, but as I've progressed I've started to see it as being unneccessary because there are other exercises I've had much better results with that don't tax my lower back.

Does that clarify it a bit now?

BossArky

Yeah that makes sense, cheers. I need to write this stuff down and bring it to the gym.

Hanley

BossArky wrote:

Yeah that makes sense, cheers. I need to write this stuff down and bring it to the gym.

I'll try and get a PM your way in the next couple of days with some suggestions sure.

Alot of how I train only makes sense to me because I can feel and see what I need to do to improve.

Dragan

Hanley wrote:

Alot of how I train only makes sense to me because I can feel and see what I need to do to improve.

Possibly one of the most pertinant things posted on this board in quite some time.

OP, whats your goal, we can help you more then.

MagicMarker

Dragan wrote: »

Possibly one of the most pertinant things posted on this board in quite some time.

OP, whats your goal, we can help you more then.

Well, my goal is to actually lose weight... However, i enjoy weights more than cardio, which sucks for me heh heh. In fact i hate cardio... But beggers can't be choosers.

I've been browsing around and think the following may be good for me, i'm not looking to bulk, just tone and 'sculpt':) Not only that, but because i enjoy the weights and actually look forward to doing them, I want to use that to my advantage and build up a routine, rather than dreading going to do cardio every morning.

Monday Legs (Quads/hamstrings)

Legpress (3 sets)
Leg extensions (3 sets)
Leg curls (3 sets)
Stiff leg deadlift (2 sets)


Tuesday Chest/triceps

Bench press (3 sets)
Incline dumbell press (3 sets)
Pushdowns (3 sets)
Dumbell overhead extension (2 sets)

Thursday Back/bicepS

Wide grip pulldown (3 sets)
Seated row (3 sets)
Hyperextensions (3 sets)
Barbell curl (3 sets)
Hammer curls (2 sets)

Friday Shoulders/calves

Seated dumbell press (3 sets)
Side laterals (3 sets)
Shrugs (3 sets)
Standing calf raise (3 sets)
Seated calf raise (2 sets)

All of these workouts are followed by 30-45 mins HIIT.

Hanley

To be honest it looks solid enough for your goals. Obviously it would be nice if you were squatting and deadlifting but what you outlined should help you along the way for a while anyway.

MagicMarker

I read that a beginner should wait a while before doing squats and deadlifts full time. I'm going to start the routing above on Monday and will probably add the squats/deadlifts after a few weeks.

Hanley

MagicMarker wrote: »

I read that a beginner should wait a while before doing squats and deadlifts full time. I'm going to start the routing above on Monday and will probably add the squats/deadlifts after a few weeks.

Yeah, I'd agree that they shouldn't PUSH the squats and deadlifts, but it would do no harm to learn the movement with an empty bar or even with 60kg depeding on your strength levels. Almost using it as a warm up like.

mack1

Agree with Hanley - get some Squats and Deads in there, even if they are lowish weight, they're great exercises and it will really stand to you in the future the learn good form from the start.

You mention that you like doing weights, you'll probably enjoy these lifts then - I find them the most rewarding of all.

Everything else looks pretty good, though if you have the energy for a 30-45 min HIIT session after doing your weights I would say you are probably not pushing hard enough. If you are trying to lose fat I would say try and get the cardio in in a seperate session.

Also, as weight loss is your goal make sure your diet is in order. Post up a real day if you want some feedback, and read the stickies.

Best of luck!
M

MagicMarker

mack1 wrote: »

Agree with Hanley - get some Squats and Deads in there, even if they are lowish weight, they're great exercises and it will really stand to you in the future the learn good form from the start.

You mention that you like doing weights, you'll probably enjoy these lifts then - I find them the most rewarding of all.

Everything else looks pretty good, though if you have the energy for a 30-45 min HIIT session after doing your weights I would say you are probably not pushing hard enough. If you are trying to lose fat I would say try and get the cardio in in a seperate session.

Also, as weight loss is your goal make sure your diet is in order. Post up a real day if you want some feedback, and read the stickies.

Best of luck!
M

30 mins is probably doable, 45 though? Mmmmmm I only managed 15 today. I worked on chest and biceps and by the time i got on the bike i just felt really tight extending my arms when sitting on it. It was just weird and uncomfortable. That and i was ballixed;) I plan on working up to 45 minutes though as cardio is quite important in achieving my goals.

As far as my diet, well, eating the right things is ok, i just need to get my ass organised as far as planning goes. I work on the road so need plan and prep, plan and prep.

I'm actually just back from the shop and for €58 my shopping list consisted of 2 bags of broccoli, 1 bag of grean beans, 1 bag of spinnach, some pre cooked salmon, 3 tins of tuna, tray of 15 eggs, cucumber, onions, bananas, 6 chicken fillets, rice cakes, brown bread, cottage cheese, supermilk.

Good food is so much cheaper, if you were substitute all that goodness with junk then the price would be twice as much, trust me, i know.

MagicMarker

I went out and bought some EAS Whey Protein this morning in Sports Nutrition Ireland in the Square. I just bought a small 900g tub to see how it pans out.

It tastes surprisingly nice when mixed with water!! Yum!! I think i'd prefer milk though!

Colm_OReilly

You need to squat and deadlift, for a number of reasons. You should learn these and make these a staple of your workout.

They work and develop your body in an anatomically correct manner, and build your muscles up in a proportionally correct way. Doing isolation work leads to segmented/disjointed ability, and can lead to muscular imbalances which lead to injuries.

If someone says shouldn't squat ask them how they go to the toilet?
If someone says you shouldn't deadlift ask them how they pick things off the ground?

Hanley

And if someone says you shouldn't bench....






...uh just point to the sky, say "What the hell is that?" and run away while they're distracted!!

Dragan

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

If someone says shouldn't squat ask them how they go to the toilet?
If someone says you shouldn't deadlift ask them how they pick things off the ground?

Last time I checked no one sat on the bog with BW on their traps, of spent all day picking up a similar level of weight.

While I understand where you are coming from Colm and I have a huge amount of respect and support for the Crossfit model, very few people really NEED to squat or deadlift. Sure, they SHOULD, but need is somewhat of a strong connotation.

MagicMarker

Well i worked on my legs yesterday. I did give squats a go, it was interesting. I started using just the bar at first to try and get used to the movements and check my form in the mirror. I worked my way up to 70KG. I stopped though because my shoulders were quite sore and tight from when i worked on them a couple of days earlier and the stance wasn't particularly comfortable in that area.

It was good though, i'm not the most agile person so it will take time to get used to and get the gut out of the way:D But i can certainly feel it today, lets just say walking down steps ain't as easy and normal.

Colm_OReilly

Hey Dragan,

Let me explain my position.

Squatting and deadlifting are core movements, and have patterns of muscle activation that we find in most daily/sport activities.

We also know that intensity is the variable associated with optimising return. Intensity is terms of weight lift is a percentage of 1RM, i.e. heavy weights.

We also know that increasing your strength leads to an increase in endurance.

So, we deadlift to reenforce the correct mechanics of picking things up - something we all do a lot. We deadlift heavy to get the appropriate neuroendocrine response.

We squat to reenforce the correct mechanics of extending the hips, used not only in standing up but in a whole host of other activities (heck, it was violent hip extensions that brought us all into this world ) We place the bar across our shoulder blades because this evenly distributes the load between the posterior and anterior planes so our body is worked in the same manner as it does unweighted.

Now, not everyone is interested in reaching new PRs or lifting extremely heavy weights, but I would propose that everyone is interested in increased health and ease of living, and also not to end up frail and weak in their retirement. In that regards for anyone who has taken the step into regular exercise I do feel these are necessary for fitness gains and health.

We essentially agree with each other on this - just that the degree to which we feel an exercise is necessary is different. Thanks for the comments dude, appreciate it!