Aer Lingus threatens to suspend all pilots

jonny68

Aer Lingus threatens to suspend all pilots
Paul Anderson

Aer Lingus today said it will suspend all pilots refusing to co-operate with its plans for creating its new Belfast hub from next week.

In a letter sent to the pilots, Aer Lingus chief executive Dermot Mannion said all pilots must confirm their intent to "engage unreservedly" in work related to the hub by next Monday.

"We are going to sit on our hands and wait for management to shut down the operation and then see how they explain it to the shareholders
Impact spokesman The letter says: "If you choose not to confirm your willingness, you can put forward in writing, to be received no later than 1pm on Monday 15 th October 2007, reasons why you choose not to do so.

"It is important that you understand that if you fail to confirm your willingness to unreservedly engage in your full range of duties, by 1pm on Monday 15 th October 2007 you will be suspended from the payroll from 3am on Tuesday 16 th October 2007."

Pilots are refusing to co-operate with the plan because the company intends to pay wages at local rates rather than on the same terms as those based at airports in the Republic.

Four pilots were suspended yesterday for failure to co-operate with recruitment and training for the new Belfast operation and a fifth was suspended today. The pilots had signed up for training and recruitment duties additional to their piloting duties.

While these duties attracted extra pay, the pilots' union advised those members to resign from their training duties and continue piloting.

Mr Mannion's letter says those in receipt of the training allowance are expected to engage in screening, assessment, interviewing and training of job applicants candidates for the Belfast base.

It also says that all pilots are expected to fly with any new recruits and attend any training courses related to the development of the new hub.

Impact insisted today the non-co-operation policy would continue.

"Progress has been made in negotiating those terms, pilots have accepted that pay and conditions at the Belfast base will be different.

"However, further negotiation is necessary in order to bring the matter to a conclusion. Until then, the result of the pilot's ballot remains valid," a spokesman said.

The union described the latest threat in a row which relates to the company's €20-million cost-saving plan as an "act of madness [which] will disrupt passengers, damage the airline's reputation and impact on shareholder value "

"A mass suspension of pilots from the payroll, which will effectively shut the airline down," the spokesmand said.

The airline insisted last night that it would not enter into talks with pilots' representatives unless they lifted the ban in participating in the airline's recruitment process for new staff for the Belfast base.

In the Dáil this morning, Labour Party leader Eamon Gilmore angrily denounced the Government's failure to maintain an influential presence on the Aer Lingus board of directors.

He also said the Government should have a definite plan for resolving the industrial relations difficulties at the company.

The Labour Relations Commission is understood to have begun contacting the parties in a bid to start negotiations.

The Atlantic Connectivity Alliance (ACA), which is planning to take part in a mass protest against the decision in Limerick later this month, criticised the claim that the Government cannot intervene.

Spokesman Tony Brazil said the decision to move to Belfast "defies commercial logic" because of the level of competition Aer Lingus will face on the route.

"If the Government won't move to honour the commitment it gave last year before Aer Lingus went public that it would protect this strategic service, then it must still act on the grounds that it is obliged to protect its investment in the company, which it holds on behalf of the people of Ireland," Mr Brazil said.


http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2007/1010/breaking3.htm

jonny68

Aer Lingus are becoming every bit as bad as Ryanair,they are an absolute disgrace.

highlydebased

If Dermot Mannion carries on with this carry on, the airline wont be long shutting down. Dont know how he is still in a job...handled the current issues very badly

FlutterinBantam

Mannion is dead right.

Aer Lingus have been in the news for the last two years going on and on and on with talks,discussions,negotiations,strikes,threats of strikes,impending strikes.

Obviously money is beginning to run out and shareholder confidence has dwindled.

Cost base is way too high,work practices are way too restricted to carry the fare structure.

Mannion has no option but to say enough is enough,its sink or swim.

I guarantee when/if the pilots are sorted out ,you will have the cabin crew in dispute.

Its plain as plain can be that those fare structures cannot support the costs of providing the schedule.

silverharp

the unions have overstepped the mark by not wanting the airline to have local pay conditions in belfast. this implies that another airline can go in and undercut aerlingus. a real head in the sand attitude if you ask me. DB scheme are going to bankrupt alot of older companies in the years ahead, you would think the staff would want less new staff with their heads in the trough.

FlutterinBantam

DublinWriter

One word - Sabena.

FlutterinBantam

Another word-Swissair

highlydebased

Another two pilots suspended this evening...

testicle

Mannion should do what Reagan did in 1981 and fire every single person that goes on strike.

seamus

Bloody pilots. "If they're not on our team, I don't want to play any more".

The head of the pilot's union let it slip very near the start of this whole thing. When the pilots agreed to Aer Lingus's plans, they were perfectly happy to have a hub in a "foreign country". They just expected "foreign" to mean "eastern european". Now that the foreign country is on the same landmass as Dublin, they've thrown their toys out of the pram.

Lesson: You can't cry just because you didn't read the small print. Suck it up.

Foggy43

The issue is the compamy pension scheme. I do not know the full facts but........

Aer Lingus pilots have every right to be worried about this. In the UK these 'Company Pension' schemes that all thought were safe have turned to disaster. All it took was a major world wide recession. We all know there will be more of those.

Aer Lingus may end up with a situation where the pilots in Belfast having to work 10 to 15 years longer than their Dublin counterparts to have the same value pension or contribute a whole lot more in Belfast.

Mention pensions and retirement age in the UK and blood pressures soar! Stop and think how financially secure you will be when you retire.

GUIGuy

What has the pension situation of UK workers got to do with an Irish trade union?? If a person relocates to the UK that's their choice. They get slighter lower pay with lower house prices and lower taxes... so anyone that wants to transfer is making a decision. The unions are unbelievable arrogant... do they think they are new republicans trying to take over the north or something? I wonder will they expect that pilots based in Belfast will pay Irish income tax too?? :rolleyes: By trying to extend their reach where it doesn't belong the unions have walked both sides into a position where neither side can back down without loosing face.
Mannion is not trying to 'break' the unions... they've just made an issue out of something that's none of their business.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

philcsl

Foggy43 wrote: »

The issue is the compamy pension scheme. I do not know the full facts but........

Aer Lingus pilots have every right to be worried about this.

Of course they are worried, they are screwing up their own pension and only have themselves to blame...

Last October the Aer Lingus Pilots Union bought 10,000,000 in Aer Lingus at €3.04 per share to give them a 2% stake in the company (trying to block the Ryanair takeover). Today these shares are worth €2.34 each and are falling - they have dropped 10c since the unions started with their usual sh*t this week.

If they're so worried about their pension - which they have so far taken a €7,000,000 loss since they bought Aer Lingus shares - they will do the job they're paid for and stop trying to hold a company to ransom which will send the company share price further south.

seamus

Foggy43 wrote: »

Aer Lingus may end up with a situation where the pilots in Belfast having to work 10 to 15 years longer than their Dublin counterparts to have the same value pension or contribute a whole lot more in Belfast.

I don't see how that's any of the Irish pilots' business. I work in a multinational, but I don't demand the same pay and conditions as my US or UK counterparts. Likewise, if they're getting a raw deal, that's their problem not mine.

philcsl

seamus wrote: »

I don't see how that's any of the Irish pilots' business. I work in a multinational, but I don't demand the same pay and conditions as my US or UK counterparts. Likewise, if they're getting a raw deal, that's their problem not mine.

I agree.. The pilots in Northern Ireland APPLIED FOR THAT JOB with those conditions. They're happy to take less pay, if they were not they would apply elsewhere. Irish unions are crippling Aer Lingus with ridiculous strike threats every other week.

MOL runs a very successful company because there are NO UNIONS. If you don't like the pay or conditions in any company quit your job and take one in a company which does give you everything you want. If there is no other job available to you with those conditions then be glad of the job you have ESPECIALLY in Aer Lingus where there are already far to many staff.

FlutterinBantam

philcsl wrote: »

I agree.. . If there is no other job available to you with those conditions then be glad of the job you have ESPECIALLY in Aer Lingus where there are already far to many staff.

I would have to take a little issue on that Philo.Its not staff numbers that is the main problem in AL ,its what they do,and how they do it.

There is a huge a overtime culture in operational areas.Due to work practice history built up over the years it would not be uncommon to have a sizeable proportion of any particular shift on upwards of 40 Euro an hour.Productivity will be low and extremely costly,and certainly not sustainable in the current low cost model which is now AL.
This ,in my opinion, was a big factor in the pullout from the SNN-LHR route.

Willie Walsh was about to start REAL cost saving before he left e.g. outsourcing certain areas.
Looks like Dermot Mannion has now come to that point with the pilots.

mickoneill30

There was a guy on from the DUP (I think) on Newstalk this morning saying that 4 times the amount of qualified people Aer Lingus needs in the north have applied for the available positions. He said the contracts on offer were comparable with other UK operators. How much more do the Irish guys get paid? Why?

FlutterinBantam

Jeffrey Donaldson Min for Transport(I think)

Reason is historical/cost of living etc.

Which is why Mannion is so keen to start in BFS with a CLEAN SLATE.

Thats the important one....green field site..no baggage/attachments/200 page rule book and stuff;)

cp251

Lot of ignorance shown here. The problem is not so much the pay as pensions and terms and conditions. By employing pilots there on different terms the risk is that in the long run, it will damage the Ts & Cs of original pilots. Simply it works like this. Once BFS is set up. Next base might be in Spain, lower pay, different or no pension. Then Poland, good pay for Polish pilots might be starvation wages for Dublin pilots.

Now Dublin is the 'high cost' base and naturally an attempt will be made to minimise costs either by changing the Ts & C's of new hires or by simply running down the Dublin base by rostering cheaper foreign pilots in and out of Dublin.

Ryanair has a different method. They insist on all their pilots work under Irish legislation and because there is no union the have gradually eroded to conditions and pay of their pilots to the point where morale is rock bottom. As for the glib comment.
'If you don't like the pay or conditions in any company quit your job and take one in a company which does give you everything you want.'

Go where? It not like moving from one office to another down the road. They are all at it, there is a determined effort by airline management everwhere to reduce Ts & Cs. Plus a move often means overseas, with a loss of seniority.

We should be supporting the Aer Lingus pilots. Mannion is making a determined effort to undermine the pilot corps. One other point, Aer Lingus pilots earn the going rate for the job. They are not the best paid pilots out there, ironically.

FlutterinBantam

Several firms have closed recently in Ireland with large job losses.
Building industry is at the stage where full employment is no longer the norm.
Thousands of people are working long hours and difficult situations just to support themselves and their families.

I would respectfully suggest that the general public has many more deserving cases for their sympathy and support, than Aer Lingus pilots.

Ignorance cuts both ways.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

juuge

daveirl wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I see so Aer Lingus is now your company.
It has been mine and everyone elses taxes that have supported Aer Lingus for years. A company I might add that has still got a 1950's semi state mentality. Let's get one thing straight, Aer Lingus pilots are no more than jumped up bus drivers who somehow believe they are special. Aer Lingus cabin crews believe they are something special also and I can assure you that having travelled the world both in the cockpit and as a passenger,and experienced more than my fair share of airlines, Aer Lingus is way down the list. Get a grip of yourselves and realise your protectionist days are numbered.

seamus

erm....did you read daveirl's post?

juuge

seamus wrote: »

erm....did you read daveirl's post?

You are of course correct - I misread the post completly - my sentiments still stand however.

Muggy Dev

For anyone interested here is the link to the EI thread on the professional pilots forum:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=295501

Boy those guys live in a bubble!

It will be interesting to see how today´s talks pan out. IALPA are really up against it now.If EI shut the airline down next week then even if the Belfast row is cleared up soon after,Mannion will keep the shop closed until SIPTU and IMPACT sign up to the full implementation of the 20 million cost cutting plan by christmas.

Excluding the Irish government and the EI staff shareholders the company will have the full backing of it´s institutional shareholders plus Ryanair.The company themselves have described the present situation as a "watershed" and would appear to hold all the cards.The issue for the company is (and has always been?) the right to manage.

The resolution to this situation may well provide a template for the much needed and long overdue reform of our own bloated and inefficient public service sector.

Lets hope so.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

RoundyMooney

Oh yes, when it cost twice the average industrial wage to fly from Cork to Heathrow.

I still read pprune from time to time, it's usually an interesting insight into the mindsets that are still all too prevalent in modern aviation.

cp251

Aer Lingus pilots are no more than jumped up bus drivers who somehow believe they are special.

I mentioned ignorance and there is a classic example of stupidity and ignorance. Next time you fly somewhere, think about those jumped up bus drivers up front and pray to God they are good at their job.

Maybe Doctors are jumped up paramedics, Police are jumped up security guards, Architects are jumped up draughtsmen. Or maybe you haven't a clue what your're talking about.

Here's another PPRuNe thread. It relates to Ryanair but this is what Aer Lingus is aiming for. Note posts 1 and 2 and ask yourself if you would be prepared to put up with those conditions. Read post no 19 too.

Remember too, that to get to the point where they offer you this contract you had to pay them 25,000 Euro to train you. That doesn't include the likely 100,000 Euro it cost you to become a pilot in the first place.

Note also that Ryanair asks you where you want to be based. But you could end up anywhere in Europe.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=276881&highlight=ryanair&page=2

FlutterinBantam

[QUOTE=m:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=295501

.[/QUOTE]


Jeebus on the wooden Cross!!!!

Do Neanderthals like those dummies STILL exist.????

I hope Mannion nails them to the floor,because the amount of upset and angst the have caused the general flying public is nothing short of reckless.

Muggy Dev

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I hope Mannion nails them to the floor,because the amount of upset and angst the have caused the general flying public is nothing short of reckless.

If the Aer Lingus Board keep a cool head,they will and that,as they say, will be the end of that.

As for the constant whinging about FR on PPRune....well,it´s the same mindset isn´t it? So called highly qualified,highly paid professionals holding the rest of us to ransome for their own rarified T´s and C´s.Notice the similarity with our own consultants in the HSE? 220K a year not enough to tempt our doctors to work exclusively in the public sector?

B*llocks! If you can´t run your own business without being blocked at every turn by the likes of the above,there is only one option:Shut it until you can.

I just hope Mannion does´nt bottle it.

juuge

cp251 wrote: »

I mentioned ignorance and there is a classic example of stupidity and ignorance. Next time you fly somewhere, think about those jumped up bus drivers up front and pray to God they are good at their job.

Maybe Doctors are jumped up paramedics, Police are jumped up security guards, Architects are jumped up draughtsmen. Or maybe you haven't a clue what your're talking about.

Here's another PPRuNe thread. It relates to Ryanair but this is what Aer Lingus is aiming for. Note posts 1 and 2 and ask yourself if you would be prepared to put up with those conditions. Read post no 19 too.

Remember too, that to get to the point where they offer you this contract you had to pay them 25,000 Euro to train you. That doesn't include the likely 100,000 Euro it cost you to become a pilot in the first place.

Note also that Ryanair asks you where you want to be based. But you could end up anywhere in Europe.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=276881&highlight=ryanair&page=2

I would be very worried about the mental stability of the guy up front in the plane if he displayed that level of arrogance.
Nowadays planes are predominantly flown by computers and like everything else run by such devices it's all about knowing what buttons to press. Calm down and realise that the general public have the pilots particularly aer lingus ones, well and truly copped. I’m delighted someone at last will stand up to them.

FlutterinBantam

In fairness now it has to be said that todays Commercial Pilot has a highly skilled job and onerous responsibility.No one really disputes that.

Its this arrogant mindset that leads some to believe that airlines are run for THEIR convenience and aggrandisment rather than as commercial transport companies,who in the simplest terms need to keep their income higher than their expenditure in todays highly competitive and volatile workplace.

Some of the gung ho shíte ( and I make no apology for that profanity) in that pprune forum leads one to believe that these people are at best easily led or at worst so hoist with their own petard that they think the great unwashed out there are total idiots.

The safety net has been removed from Aer Lingus,its sink or swim now,however, apparently this reality has yet to permeate into the rarefied air of the cockpit,then again maybe it has....

Time will tell.

cp251

With due respect most of you have no clue as to what it takes to be a pilot. pprune is not a great example as it is full of wannabees and people with issues. But this is absolute bollox to put it politely.

Nowadays planes are predominantly flown by computers and like everything else run by such devices it's all about knowing what buttons to press.

That is easily the most stupid and ignorant comment I've seen on this forum. It certainly supersedes the last stupid, ignorant comment.
I'm a pilot, not flying airlines but anyone who makes a comment like this knows absolutely nothing about flying.

Do you honestly think that the current level of safety and reliability in the airline business is down to a bunch of arrogant overpaid prima donnas who spend their time pushing buttons and programming computers?

Do you have even the slightest idea of what is involved in transporting your pathetic little body to a beach somewhere south of here?

I have a lot of airline pilot friends, none of whom are arrrogant. None of them like to be treated a 'glorified bus drivers'. All of them, know the reality of airline flying and all of them can tell stories of moments when they earned every single cent of the money they earn every year.

Let me assure you, there are no arrogant airline pilots. Every one of them is one failed medical away from losing their job. One mistake away from ending their career. One accident away from ending their life and that of their passengers.

How many of you non pilots can honestly say they have to face that reality every day?

Muggy Dev

With the greatest of respect cp251.you´re way off topic.

FlutterinBantam

Cp251 could I draw your attention to the thread title.

strangely enough the only two items you chose to highlight "bus drivers" and "flown by computers" is one any person with a modicum of experience knows is not true.

The Aer lingus issue is what is in question here and its future viability viz a viz the threatened dispute with the pilots..

RoundyMooney

juuge, your comments are out of order.

Calling professionals glorified button pushers is not a positive, or accurate contribution.

As someone else said above, reasonable minds would not diminish the skill or the professionalism of any flight crew, but the core issue here is the transformation of the aviation industry over the last two decades.

It is no longer the exclusive domain of the well off, or those on business expenses, and those who have been in the business and have borne witness to this change, I imagine, have found the change in their working environment somewhat disconcerting to say the least.

cp251, if you want to talk about the issue you outlined above, you're more than welcome to start a new thread on it. It may prove an interesting discussion.

silverharp

I think the pilots are deluded to be honest, if they believe they can maintain conditions above industry standard then the airline is headed for financial trouble in the future. Aer Lingus has no usp or ipr, they can't maintain a cost structure above their competitors, I for one would not pay 1E more to fly aer lingus v another airline all things being equal, and their will be no bailout the next time aerlingus gets into financial trouble. They risk the airline going bankrupt and a new set of T's and C's will be imposed on staff that will be a shock to the remaining staff.

juuge

cp251 wrote: »

With due respect most of you have no clue as to what it takes to be a pilot. pprune is not a great example as it is full of wannabees and people with issues. But this is absolute bollox to put it politely.



That is easily the most stupid and ignorant comment I've seen on this forum. It certainly supersedes the last stupid, ignorant comment.
I'm a pilot, not flying airlines but anyone who makes a comment like this knows absolutely nothing about flying.

Do you honestly think that the current level of safety and reliability in the airline business is down to a bunch of arrogant overpaid prima donnas who spend their time pushing buttons and programming computers?

Do you have even the slightest idea of what is involved in transporting your pathetic little body to a beach somewhere south of here?

I have a lot of airline pilot friends, none of whom are arrrogant. None of them like to be treated a 'glorified bus drivers'. All of them, know the reality of airline flying and all of them can tell stories of moments when they earned every single cent of the money they earn every year.

Let me assure you, there are no arrogant airline pilots. Every one of them is one failed medical away from losing their job. One mistake away from ending their career. One accident away from ending their life and that of their passengers.

How many of you non pilots can honestly say they have to face that reality every day?

It is regrettable that in your neurotic ranting about airline pilots you’ve managed to insult bus drivers who on a daily basis transport, safely, many thousands of passengers in Ireland without the use of high powered auto pilot computers. Nice one!
Just remember the day of the hoity toity uniformed ego maniac flying our national airline presuming to be somehow entitled to a rarefied existence funded by the taxpayer is well and truly nigh. Get used to that fact.

juuge

RoundyMooney wrote: »

juuge, your comments are out of order.

Calling professionals glorified button pushers is not a positive, or accurate contribution.

As someone else said above, reasonable minds would not diminish the skill or the professionalism of any flight crew, but the core issue here is the transformation of the aviation industry over the last two decades.

It is no longer the exclusive domain of the well off, or those on business expenses, and those who have been in the business and have borne witness to this change, I imagine, have found the change in their working environment somewhat disconcerting to say the least.

cp251, if you want to talk about the issue you outlined above, you're more than welcome to start a new thread on it. It may prove an interesting discussion.

We are all entitled to our points of view are we not?
Perhaps therefore when pronouncing someone’s comments to be ‘out of order’ you would be well served to be critical across the board and denounce comments such as ‘transporting your pathetic little body' as submitted by cp251 or do I detect a note of bias here.

Tenger

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Mannion is dead right.
Aer Lingus have been in the news for the last two years going on and on and on with talks,discussions,negotiations,strikes,threats of strikes,impending strikes.
QUOTE]
The company agreed a new cost saving plan last October with staff. 8 weeks later they reneged on that plan and DEMANDED more. The company have still to deliver on that agreement while staff began new T&C last november.
The company said staff had to sign new contracts last March and refused to even meet and discuss the new demands with Union reps.

The pilots union have agreed to a new base in Belfast with different terms and conditions and a lower salary than Dublin. The pilots want to able to transfer to Belfast (accepting the new salary) without being forced to resign from EI first. (so losing all seniority and current promotion prospects) To the pilots it doesn't matter where the base is. it is the manner of the base staffing that is contentious. There is also a problem of transfering their existing pensions with them.

BTW Ryanair pilots and many others get better paid than Aer Lingus.

100 out of 480 pilots have expressed an interest in transfering to BFS base. The pilot do not have a problem with the lower salary at BFS. EI has lots of experienced pilots who could transfer to BFS, and get a promotion. this pilots have many years of experience. EI has actually lowered its standards of recruitment for the Belfast base.

Concerning underworked; commercial Pilots can legally do a maximum of 900 flight hours in any given 12 month period. EI pilots regularly approach this threshold so how can they be said to be underworked?

The pilots are not going on strike, they are being suspended, it is different.Aer Lingus suspended those pilots without warning them first which is not legal under irish labour laws.

Another thing to remember is that EI spent 30 million euro on consultants for floatation and a further 16 million after floatation as the original bunch didn't consider Ryanair might try to buy shares. Why not just buy 16 million worth of shares?

Several posters have praised Dermot Mannion. He arrived from Emirates and was supposed to have Mid East expertise to help the new Dubai route. The Dubai route has failed badly,EI is now considering stopping it in March. mannion received a 900,000 Euro bonus several months ago.
Also the current head of EI human reources has had two court cases against her by former assistants for bullying and harrassment. Off topic yes but I wanted to draw your attention to the level of ineptitude in the top levels of EI.

The pilots have agreed to change but the company refuses to discuss change with them. The company want to enforce change. Currently the company are illegally withholding a national pay increase under the PPF which has no preconditions attached to it.

Muggy Dev

Bramble wrote: »

Off topic yes but I wanted to draw your attention to the level of ineptitude in the top levels of EI.

Yeah...they´ve certainly had their moments.Who will forget the one day stopage earlier this year when Mannion expressed his sincere gratitude on RTE news to the members of SIPTU who facilitated the disembarcation of two flight arrivals and the absurd claims from the CEO and the Chairman that the FR offer seriously undervalued the company despite being the guts of 80 cents above the original offer price.

But a year at the helm of a public company has taught both men some harsh realities,chief amoung which is the inescapable conclusion that it is the EI unions that will thwart every attempt the company makes to drive the business forward.Google any irish based news site and witness the interminable list of union threats to disrupt the company.Google FR and you will see an almost equally long list of new route announcements and reports of better than expected profits.

The EI board are fully aware that they must break this cycle of threats,weed out restrictive practices,slash costs and establish their right to manage and grow the business.IMO if they have´nt fully implemented their cost cutting plans and have Belfast up and runnning by christmas then the instituional investors and FR will,quite rightly, demand the resignations of the executive board members.To add to their woes,the share price was last traded at 2.31 euros on friday which means all parties are taking a very unpleasant bath at present.The pilots themselves are in a 7 million euro hole having bought in at over 3 euros.If Mannion shuts the airline next week the share price could well dip below 2 euros which would make them highly expossed to the possibility of a takeover bid.

High stakes indeed.

juuge

When I originally decided to air my views on this particular topic, I thought how best can I support my proposition that the level of arrogance among aer lingus pilots will do little to garner public support for their present predicament.
I decided to illicit a response by being over the top in my comments.
This has proven now to have been a successful tactic.
The contributor cp251 in his response to my submission showed all the traits of one totally engrossed in his own ego and that of those he chooses to support.
Referring to a number of professions which in his estimation are mere minnows in comparison to the rarefied echelons of the aer lingus pilots establishment and pilots in general.
His comment regarding ‘pathetic soles being hauled away on their holidays’ sums it up precisely and I couldn’t have wished for a better response in establishing my original point. Thank you for that cp251.

FlutterinBantam

Meanwhile back in reality land...... hold the drums and trumpets please.

Aer Lingus is in a hole

The Company needs to cut costs fast....like fast.

Cannot..I say again cannot keep goin round the houses on interminable negotiations, with little or no outcome.
Cannot continue on as before..result = out of business

Mannion has the ball in his hand,and must,I say again,must ,score on this play.

Otherwise its curtains.

Do people not understand this.????

RoundyMooney

juuge,

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Your comments however, were a blatant troll, and you have admitted to this in post #44, above.

Some posters should know better than to rise to trolling, but my response to this, was, is and will be based on context.

You can take two things from this;

1. If I deem you to be trolling in this forum again, you can take an indefinite break from posting here.

2. If you have an issue with the manner in which I moderate this forum, feel free to start a post on Feedback, outlining your concern.

RoundyMooney

Back at the ranch.

bantam is right, in that the modern world of business is driven by the bean counters, and everything revolves around commercial and financial viability.

Airlines are no exception.

It's a pity the same rules don't apply to the health service, IMHO, but that's another story entirely.

juuge

RoundyMooney wrote: »

juuge,

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Your comments however, were a blatant troll, and you have admitted to this in post #44, above.

Some posters should know better than to rise to trolling, but my response to this, was, is and will be based on context.

You can take two things from this;

1. If I deem you to be trolling in this forum again, you can take an indefinite break from posting here.

2. If you have an issue with the manner in which I moderate this forum, feel free to start a post on Feedback, outlining your concern.

I take exception to your tone.
You made your coments towards me prior to my admission to what you call 'trolling'.
I'm not interested in bringing this any further, I think the impartial readers will make their own minds up in this instance.

RoundyMooney

juuge wrote: »

You made your coments towards me prior to my admission to what you call 'trolling'.

You didn't have to admit it for it to be readily apparent to me.

juuge wrote: »

I'm not interested in bringing this any further, I think the impartial readers will make their own minds up in this instance.

I'm sure they will, but if you wish to discuss it further, you can PM me or start a Feedback thread. This thread has gone far enough off topic already.

damo

juuge wrote: »

When I originally decided to air my views on this particular topic, I thought how best can I support my proposition that the level of arrogance among aer lingus pilots will do little to garner public support for their present predicament.
I decided to illicit a response by being over the top in my comments.
This has proven now to have been a successful tactic.
The contributor cp251 in his response to my submission showed all the traits of one totally engrossed in his own ego and that of those he chooses to support.
Referring to a number of professions which in his estimation are mere minnows in comparison to the rarefied echelons of the aer lingus pilots establishment and pilots in general.
His comment regarding ‘pathetic soles being hauled away on their holidays’ sums it up precisely and I couldn’t have wished for a better response in establishing my original point. Thank you for that cp251.

bwahahaha!!

Thats really funny reading, the level of hypocrisy in the above quoted post is shocking. Juuge - you criticise cp251 for responding to your ignorant opinions of what constitutes the job of an airline pilot, citing the arrogance and inflated ego of himself and aer lingus pilots. Yet then you arrogantly proclaim yourself a skilled tactician in manipulating people to illicit a certain type of response from them. Your delusion, arrogance and hypocrisy astounds.

Dont believe everything you hear coming out of Michael O' Learys' big mouth - it takes a hell of alot more than a couple of button pushing, jumped up bus driver monkeys to fly a category 3b ils approach under horrible weather condtions, seriously - just be thankful you had competent, highly trained professionals at the controls when you were 'flying around the world'!

Seriously - did a pilot sleep with your wife or something? :rolleyes:

mickoneill30

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Meanwhile back in reality land...... hold the drums and trumpets please.

Aer Lingus is in a hole

The Company needs to cut costs fast....like fast.

Cannot..I say again cannot keep goin round the houses on interminable negotiations, with little or no outcome.
Cannot continue on as before..result = out of business

Mannion has the ball in his hand,and must,I say again,must ,score on this play.

Otherwise its curtains.

Do people not understand this.????

I agree with you. A friend of mine works for a major (I mean huge) chain of travel agents. I asked her what they're doing for their customers to avoid problems next week. She said after the last problems a month or so ago they don't use Aer Lingus anymore whenever they can avoid it so they've no problems anticipated next week. Which is good for her, but bad for Aer Lingus. How many other companies and customers are doing the same thing?