Pumas vs Boks

admsitio

Pumas.I want to see The Pumas in the final game.What do you think? who will win? what are the keys for the match? Can The Pumas beat the Boks? Vote

Steffano2002

The Pumas can beat the Boks but I don't think they'll win...

ThomasH

I had this thought before the Arg vs Sco game that the Pumas will be up for the challenge but after the match they were wrecked and fatique kicked in and it's not something you can get rid off within a week to face the bully boks pack.

I think Arg is getting tired in this WC after playing out of their skin in every match and it is starting to show. The boks should win but Arg will still be up for the challenge.

shrapnel222

the argies are wrecked and are playing so nervously after 50 minutes, it's painful to watch. This is as far as they'll go. there's no way the boks will lose this one.

raven136

i hope the pumas win,the irb cantrefuse to properly recognise a world cup finalist.bring them into the 6 nations.
if they use their kicking game properly they can win,theboks will thrive on missed kicks

RugBeir

I thought the Pumas played badly mainly because they had the mantle of favorites against the Scots. It doesnt lie easily with them. Despite this they still showed signs of a great team and came close to putting Scotland away. Also Scotland are a coming team and have improved more than we realise over the past couple of seasons.

For me the main sign of a good team is their ability to vary their game as the occasion suits. I think their pack is as good as any, and better than most at the breakdowns. With out half Hernandez, they have a match winner ala Johnny Wilkinson. Scotland played clever and tried to match them at the kicking game but were outplayed by more experienced team.

Starting as underdogs against S. Africa is a motivating factor for them. Probably a similar match as V France with penalties and drop goals taking them to the final and rematch V France! IMHO.

martu

Pumas are going to play their best the first 60 min and the difference for SA will come after that cause they'll be physically better. If ARG manages to reach that point with a favourable result (10+ pt difference) then a huge psycological pressure will be on SA side. This is the only situation in which pumas have demonstrated they make no mistakes. They are the best in keeping their ingoal safe deffending and tackling like beasts with their opponent constantly smashing them within their 22y.

If the game goes to the middle of the field in the last 20 min with ARG even having chances or trying to score, they'll be more relaxed and SA will kill them in their mistakes. I won't be surprised if SA scores 3/4 last minute tries if this happens.

Although there are few chances for this to happen, i think is one of the few options for Pumas to win the match.
Perhaps I'm trying to convert my emotional feelings and desires into reasonable facts that let me think we still have a chance in this RWC.

Sorry for my English

VAMOS PUMAS VAMOS, PONGA HUEVO QUE GANAMOS!!!

MikeHoncho

For the sake of poetry I cant think of anything better than a Pumas Vs France final but I think SA have way too much class in their team and the Pumas look a bit tired. I will cheer for Argentina but will go with a SA win.

adelcrowsmel

Would love to see Arg win but just can't see it happening - but then again I've been wrong about the Aussies and AB's so here's hoping that I'm wrong about this one too!!:p

marco_polo

If they can manage their training correctly during the week to lessen the fatigue, then I can see the Pumas winning this one at the weekend.

For me the forwards packs are on a pretty similiar level and will most likely cancel each other out, crucially Argentina have a big advantage at No 10. Some of South Africas kicking out of hand has been truely dire in this competition, whereas Argentinas has been generally excellent. If Argentina can win the kicking dual and dominate territory, then I believe they can win the match.

Another key factor is that both teams have goal kickers who blow hot and cold so in a close game like this, an off day in this department for either one could well be the deciding factor.

Danie Gerber

This is great, I get a chance to redeem my mistakes in predicting AB's and Oz winning last weekend... The Boks will beat the Argies.

There are three things Argentina does well: Kick, defend and pressure, both at the breakdown and on oppo kicker. But that really is all there is to their game...

They'll win their own line-outs most of the time but they will compete against the best defensive line-out in the WC. Their scrum will be under pressure as well if you take into account that even Scotland had their number.

They don't have a plan B, if they did they would have employed it against Scotland in a match they almost lost on Sunday. Argentina doesn't have a cutting edge in the backs and with Hernandez kicking the outside backs have hardly seen the ball. Arg have only managed to score 4 tries in 3 matches against the top teams (Fra, Ire, Sco).

And to all you Hernandez heads out there, his drop goal record is 4 out of 9... Point is, he kicks away posession 80% of the time. And he'll be kicking to Habana, Montgomery, Pietersen. All accomplished kickers themselves. And if he finds touch I can't see, Botha/Matfield losing line-out posession..

History counts against them as well. I don't want to read into it too much after last weekend, but Argentina will have to overcome the phycological barrier of beating SA for the first time in 11 attempts in their first ever WC semi-final. Tall order.

South Africa's biggest obstacle on Sunday will be Steve Walsh. Boks have a very average record when he officiates...

vorbis

I'm going for Argentina. This Boks team is overrated imo. They've been whipping boys for New Zealand and Australia for the last few years in the trinations. Now suddenly, they're world beaters. It'll be a very tight messy game which I fancy Argentina to nick by 2 points!

Stev_o

Danie Gerber wrote:

This is great, I get a chance to redeem my mistakes in predicting AB's and Oz winning last weekend... The Boks will beat the Argies.

There are three things Argentina does well: Kick, defend and pressure, both at the breakdown and on oppo kicker. But that really is all there is to their game...

They'll win their own line-outs most of the time but they will compete against the best defensive line-out in the WC. Their scrum will be under pressure as well if you take into account that even Scotland had their number.

They don't have a plan B, if they did they would have employed it against Scotland in a match they almost lost on Sunday. Argentina doesn't have a cutting edge in the backs and with Hernandez kicking the outside backs have hardly seen the ball. Arg have only managed to score 4 tries in 3 matches against the top teams (Fra, Ire, Sco).

And to all you Hernandez heads out there, his drop goal record is 4 out of 9... Point is, he kicks away posession 80% of the time. And he'll be kicking to Habana, Montgomery, Pietersen. All accomplished kickers themselves. And if he finds touch I can't see, Botha/Matfield losing line-out posession..

History counts against them as well. I don't want to read into it too much after last weekend, but Argentina will have to overcome the phycological barrier of beating SA for the first time in 11 attempts in their first ever WC semi-final. Tall order.

South Africa's biggest obstacle on Sunday will be Steve Walsh. Boks have a very average record when he officiates...

Jesus christ i know EVERYONE from the bloody beginning of this tournament has been saying "Argentina will loose against X cause they give them possession form kicks and they will be massacred "

The fact is they havent yet and untill so i think its a pointless to say.


This match will be decided between the two packs and then kicking.
South Africa are under the most pressure as there defence is the worst out of the SH teams [citation needed] if they go out there thinking that they ll destroy Argentina in the first half then and should really start thinking how the match in the final will be like and whether they ll get a open top bus with masses of crowds when they get home they ll get beaten!

Danie Gerber

Yes but who have they played? A nervous French team, a bad rish team and a useless Scotish team...

mikeruurds

Argentina are yet to come up against quality opposition in this tournament.

Yes, you're probably thinking, "What about France". Argentina have the upper hand against France and caught them cold.

Argentina are a quality side, but I believe that the Boks will win.

martu

Danie Gerber wrote:

Yes but who have they played? A nervous French team, a bad rish team and a useless Scotish team...

And what about South Africa? Was England in it's best day? and then who else?

mikeruurds

martu wrote:

And what about South Africa? Was England in it's best day? and then who else?

They've played three hard games against the Islanders. Those games are probably more physical and tough than most other teams have experienced in the cup so far.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

toomevara

Love to see the pumas do it, but don't think they've got the firepower. Plus I've got money on the boks to win the cup (though have to admit I thought it would be in a final V the kiwis)

nacho libre

Argentina, in this game, will not have the success they had against France in the loose. Also, If Hernadez's kicks the ball way as much as he has in previous matches, unlike the previous games, argentina will get punished for it.

It will be South Africa and England in the final.

thebaz

damn i really want the pumas to do it - i think they have one big game left -- i can't see a weakness in the team , great coach, and wonderfull team spirit -- something we lack :mad:

my prediction france v pumas final , with france lifting the trophy -- go on the pumas

Erin Go Brath

Boks will do it. The most impressive team of the tournament by far. Pumas will give them their toughest game so far i've no doubts but will fall short in the pressurised atmosphere of a WC SF.

thebaz

Erin Go Brath wrote:

Boks will do it. The most impressive team of the tournament by far. .

did the mighty Tonga and fiji not nearly turn them over ??

i agree they are favotites, but it would be great for the game if the pumas reached the final .

Erin Go Brath

thebaz wrote:

did the mighty Tonga and fiji not nearly turn them over ??

i agree they are favotites, but it would be great for the game if the pumas reached the final .

1) They didn't have their full first team out against Tonga
2) They beat Fiji by 17 points, by far the biggest QF margin of victory

I'd like to see the Pumas reach the Final too but it ain't going to happen. They were terrible against Scotland, maybe down to fatigue after group of death etc but even so its a step too far to beat the boks.

Danie Gerber

This is a pretty amazing feat for Argentina, to somehow have convinced 40% of the guys on this thread that they would actually beat the Boks... Fair play to them.

Danie Gerber

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebaz
did the mighty Tonga and fiji not nearly turn them over ??


Not really thebaz,

Never got the feeling in either of those matches that SA would somehow not win. Argentina scraped past France and we thumped England (the other two semi-finalists as it turns out!)

philstar

hope the pumas do it, but i don't think they will...they looked tired against scotland, you can only go to the well so often

was impressed with the way SA killed off the game against fiji, not pretty but very clinical and effective.

vorbis

The game against Fiji could have gone either way. The 17 point victory margin is a tad irrelevant. Had Fili scored a try from the two gilt edged chances they wasted, I would have backed them to win from there. They didn't and the Boks try killed off Fiji, thats sport. To somehow say the Boks were comfortable in that match is nuts though.

I'm sticking with my Argentina prediction. One good match against an English team who played awful does not make them world beaters. The main reason for beating the pacific island teams was their better organization and forward play. Those advantages will be somewhat negated against Argentina.

Davei141

vorbis wrote: »

I'm going for Argentina. This Boks team is overrated imo. They've been whipping boys for New Zealand and Australia for the last few years in the trinations. Now suddenly, they're world beaters. It'll be a very tight messy game which I fancy Argentina to nick by 2 points!

In the past two years South Africa have been the only team that could compete with the all blacks, and im not talking a once off win...dont know what tri nations your watching

Stev_o

Davei141 wrote: »

In the past two years South Africa have been the only team that could compete with the all blacks, and im not talking a once off win...dont know what tri nations your watching

Considering they lost both test matches proves your statement is wrong, and dont tell me the "Oh they lost by one point and they held Nzl with their b team for 60 minutes" excuse because its not a win and at the end of the day winning is a bigger statement then loosing

moe_sizlak

i think the south africans will win but im sincerely hope they dont win the final , id perfer see england win it , people say the all blacks are arrogant , perhaps the rugby team is but newzealanders in general are not at all arrogant , the same cannot be said for south africans

ThomasH

The game against Fiji could have gone either way. The 17 point victory margin is a tad irrelevant.

LOL. Really? 5 tries against 2 is irrelevant in a quarter-final. You wish the Ireland were there!

Had Fili scored a try from the two gilt edged chances they wasted, I would have backed them to win from there. They didn't and the Boks try killed off Fiji, thats sport.

But they didn't and they're going home and SA is not.

To somehow say the Boks were comfortable in that match is nuts though.

It was a good game between two sides and in the end SA finished them off comfortably with 5 tries to 2.

I'm sticking with my Argentina prediction.

Good for you. Post back here after Sunday night.

One good match against an English team who played awful does not make them world beaters.

So what will makes us World beaters, since Ireland are not in the competition anymore and you know all the answers. Actually, we scored so far 29 tries in this tournament and regardless of what we are still in the race. Where is Ireland??

The main reason for beating the pacific island teams was their better organization and forward play.

Is that such a bad thing. You are wrong, SA's backline scored almost same amount as the forwards.

Those advantages will be somewhat negated against Argentina.

Because...

Considering they lost both test matches proves your statement is wrong, and dont tell me the "Oh they lost by one point and they held Nzl with their b team for 60 minutes" excuse because its not a win and at the end of the day winning is a bigger statement then loosing

He was referring to the last 2 years, actually the past 3 years SA have been the only team that have beaten the ABs regardless of this years 3N. The fact is like you say, win is a win and SA is still winning and in the competition and NZ is not!

people say the all blacks are arrogant , perhaps the rugby team is but newzealanders in general are not at all arrogant , the same cannot be said for south africans

Really. So ALL SAs are arrogant? You just don't know the difference between passion for your country's rugby and arrogance. Oh, and when Ireland beat SA "b" and Aus last November they were all of a sudden World Cup favourites :rolleyes:

Rjd2

moe_sizlak wrote: »

i think the south africans will win but im sincerely hope they dont win the final , id perfer see england win it , people say the all blacks are arrogant , perhaps the rugby team is but newzealanders in general are not at all arrogant , the same cannot be said for south africans

Their cricket team are horrible but their rugby team seems like a decent bunch of blokes, New Zealand cricket on the other hand pride themselves on having likable blokes such as Fleming but their rugby teams...

gadaven

i would like to watch France V Argentina (héhéhé) but the RSA are such a beautifull team, i can't imagine them not making it.... but who knows ?

ThomasH

Their cricket team are horrible but their rugby team seems like a decent bunch of blokes, New Zealand on the other hand pride themselves on having likable blokes such as Fleming but their rugby teams!!!!
Spot on. SA supporters are very very passionate when it comes to rugby.
I smell sour grapes in the air.

ThomasH

Their cricket team are horrible but their rugby team seems like a decent bunch of blokes, New Zealand on the other hand pride themselves on having likable blokes such as Fleming but their rugby teams!!!!.

Spot on. SA supporters are very very passionate when it comes to rugby.
I smell sour grapes in the air

mikeruurds

Do not confuse confidence and passion with arrogance. The Boks are a good bunch of blokes who are hungry for the cup.

Many things but not arrogant. In my opinion.

Here is an excerpt from a Bok fan forum (www.keo.co.za)

- Springbok lock Bakkies Botha is preparing for the semi-final like it’s the last game of his life. “Everyone knows that we must turn it up a notch higher this weekend and we know if we lose this weekend it’s all gone,” said Botha. The four year dream is all gone and I think we will definitely be at our best this weekend. The players want that [World] Cup and to get that we must win this weekend. I am going to prepare like it is the last Springbok game of my life.” Botha also expressed his admiration of the Pumas style of play. “We know that the Argies are a passionate squad and they will come out very aggressive and that’s my game and I love it. I’m actually like a young boy, I can’t sleep at night because I am looking forward to the weekend.”

- Bok flyhalf Butch James said the squad were aware of the expectation in South Africa, but added that not being exposed to it daily helped in their preparation. “We haven’t really felt it that much so it’s been good but we always know our supporters back home always want nothing less than a win from us,” James said.”It’s a little bit of pressure but I think it’s good to have that sort of pressure because it fires the guys up a bit more.”

- The Pumas enjoyed some down time before the clash with the Springboks by indulging in a good ‘ol braai yesterday. The Rugby World Cup site reports that Prop Martín Scelzo (whose father owns a butchery) took charge of festivities.”They got the meat from the hotel. I am the person who chose the cuts because I know something about meat,” he said. “The person who is in charge of the barbeque is ‘Champ’ [team physiotherapist Sergio Carossio]. He is the one who makes the assado [braai].”

- Lock Carlos Ignacio Fernandez Lobbe said the cool approach to the semi-final is well deserved after a frenetic month. “It is a dream we had before the World Cup, it was a target we aimed for,” he said. “We knew it would be very tough to arrive at this point in the competition but we always believed in our team, our spirit, our way of play,” he said. “After five very tough games we are in the semi-finals. So this week we are enjoying it a lot.”


It seems as though both teams admire each other and are up for the game. Let's hope it's a cracker.

alteregoZR

The Boks are gonna take it...!! They're in a different class altogether. die bokke gaan vir hulle a pakslaa gee

Steffano2002

thebaz wrote: »

my prediction france v pumas final , with france lifting the trophy -- go on the pumas

From your mouth to God's ears!

Thats quite a bold statement nacho. France at home to Engerland? Surely there cant be another upset. [Watch this space]

I agree with some of the sentiments above. I think Hernandez should be wary of kicking possession away with the likes of Francois Steyn lurking anywhere near the Argie half. We've seen him slot drop goals with ease from that distance in both Super 14 and test matches (See SA v AUS of this years tri-nations).

Argentina probably wont be able to keep up their physical game for the 80 mins. They have had much stronger opposition and brusing encounters than the Boks up to this point, and the Saffies look fresh whereas the Argies look tired.

geuro

I'd love if Argentina could pull it off but i don't think they are going to be able to do it. They have been fantastic this world cup but i think the Scotland game betrayed their fatigue, and against the strength of the Boks they are going to struggle over 80 minutes. That said, this world cup has been full of shockers, and i wouldn't write the Argies off quite yet.

France v S.Africa final, the French to lift the cup..

Stev_o

Deleted User wrote: »

I agree with some of the sentiments above. I think Hernandez should be wary of kicking possession away with the likes of Francois Steyn lurking anywhere near the Argie half. We've seen him slot drop goals with ease from that distance in both Super 14 and test matches (See SA v AUS of this years tri-nations).
tired.

Sorry but Steyn has failed miserably this RWC. Hasnt dropped a goal in the whole tournament and hasnt done anything impressive so far.

ThomasH

Sorry but Steyn has failed miserably this RWC. Hasnt dropped a goal in the whole tournament and hasnt done anything impressive so far.

Says you...He made a good few breaks in the Tonga and Samoa games, something Gordon Darcy could not achieved this whole tournament. For a 20 year old he is doing just fine, his fans and mentors are not complaining. He didn't need to drop goals so far as we scored enough tries in each match to win it comfortably. Get over your SA jealousy!

mikeruurds

Steyn has cemented his position at centre this tournament. This is the opinion of many, bok fans or not.

This would not be the case if he had "failed miserably". He is an immense talent. The big problem seems to be the fact that he often isn't supported quickly enough when he goes on his incisive sniping runs and the result is turnover ball.

jkehoe101

Stev_o wrote: »

Considering they lost both test matches proves your statement is wrong, and dont tell me the "Oh they lost by one point and they held Nzl with their b team for 60 minutes" excuse because its not a win and at the end of the day winning is a bigger statement then loosing

Bit like Ireland thinking they're world beaters in Nov when they beat a C Bok side and an Aussie team experimenting with their lineup.

Or saying "well we played really" when Georgia almost beat us ??

Seems like a lot of Irish people here are just trying to be nasty just for the sake of it. Makes me a bit embarassed...we can give it but can't take. As soon as someone shows some spirit, they're branded as arrogant. I think we've lost the run of ourselves.

The one thing that has impressed me of the Boks is the way they come back and score relatively quickly afetr conceding points.

2 good teams will be playing on Sun. The 2 who most deserved to be there. Will be close.

Supercell

In my work I talk to people in SA daily.
Suffice to say they think SA to win, last forecast I got was 32 - 16 to the Bok's.

There is a sadness to them too, they ALL talk about this being their last WC, the next ones will not be proper SA teams, reverse aparthied seems to be in place there.

I'm supporting the last great SA team, rugby is loosing a massive pool of talent on the world scene after this WC and its fitting imho if SA win it.

SA seems to fast becoming another African banana republic, come on the Bok's!!, I'm supporting you guys, the real SA people ..there on merit not bloody politics.

mikeruurds

Longfield wrote: »

In my work I talk to people in SA daily.
Suffice to say they think SA to win, last forecast I got was 32 - 16 to the Bok's.

There is a sadness to them too, they ALL talk about this being their last WC, the next ones will not be proper SA teams, reverse aparthied seems to be in place there.

I'm supporting the last great SA team, rugby is loosing a massive pool of talent on the world scene after this WC and its fitting imho if SA win it.

SA seems to fast becoming another African banana republic, come on the Bok's!!, I'm supporting you guys, the real SA people ..there on merit not bloody politics.

This is why this bok team is so passionate about the 2007 WC. It could very well end up being our last chance for a generation. Australia is targeting the young white rugby talent in SA because it's common knowledge that, by virtue of their colour, they will probably never get to play rugby at the highest level for their country of birth.

It's sad, but the writing has been on the wall for a long time.

I really hope that the boys can play to their potential and show the world how talented the class of '07 really is.

Edit: I think a 15+ point margin might be a little too hopeful

Chaz

moe_sizlak wrote: »

i think the south africans will win but im sincerely hope they dont win the final , id perfer see england win it , people say the all blacks are arrogant , perhaps the rugby team is but newzealanders in general are not at all arrogant , the same cannot be said for south africans

Since when did this discussion become 'personal'? No reason to discuss arogance of any countries, its a rugby thread, not a nationality thread.

jkehoe101

Chaz wrote: »

Since when did this discussion become 'personal'? No reason to discuss arogance of any countries, its a rugby thread, not a nationality thread.

moe's posts tend to follow such lines..I wonder if he has even met any SA's or Aussies or NZ or or or or....shame just another one of those people who probably reads a line in a newspaper and becomes and "expert".

He must be one of the same people who "hates" England but then love to wacth Premiership Football and supports an English club.

I know a lot of people form different nationalities (including SA) and none have come across anywhere near as arrogant as that posting by moe....pathetic

MooseJam

pumas all the way

Davei141

Stev_o wrote: »

Considering they lost both test matches proves your statement is wrong, and dont tell me the "Oh they lost by one point and they held Nzl with their b team for 60 minutes" excuse because its not a win and at the end of the day winning is a bigger statement then loosing

So that makes them "whipping boys"? have you actually watched the matches?