Joint Support

Boston

I was wondering what you guys would recommend wrt joint support. I've started doing 100kg squats and I'm finding my knees are abit messed up afterwards. As a result I'm thinking of getting some knee supports like what I see Hanley using in his you tub videos, and maybe a belt for the deadlifts. What brands are good and wheres there best place to buy.

tribulus

TK's off liftinglarge.com http://liftinglarge.com/misc%20items.htm
I love them.

Although they don't give support and a belt doesn't give "joint" support. You use a belt to push your abs against it and help increase intraabdominal pressure, or so the theory goes.

You shouldn't use knee sleeves or something to get rid of sore knees, you should fix the problem! You could have tight IT bands, have crap form, overtrained etc. Solve whatever problem it is and use the knee sleeves to help *prevent* any injuries, not mask them.

Boston

I thought the belt provide lower back support?

As for the knees, its actually one more then the other. I do quiet a bit of stretching before I squat, and I warm up with afew air squats, form seems grand according to anyone whose looked at it (whatever that counts for) . The knees have only started to give problems when I hit the 190kg inclined push press. I think I did some damage at that stage, I've left it a week and will leave it another week and maybe gradually break into it again.

tribulus

I think you mean leg press? 190kg push press would be quite impressive

The belt does give support if you use it right, I was just being nit picky in that it doesn't give joint support as such. I get 10kilos from it anyway on big squats.

I use an 11mm Inzer lever from here irongladiators.com It's expensive but if you're gonna get a belt get the best!

Boston

Ah yes, leg press it was. Thanks for the link, the site looks the business. Whats your opinion on the shirts?

tribulus

I've ordered off both before and they're both very good, liftinglarge are in Rio Rancho New Mexico and the stuff still got to me in 5days.

You have no need at all for bench shirts or suits unless you plan on competing in an equipped powerlifting competition.

I've yet to use a shirt although I have anice shiny one on the way, I've used the bottom half of a squat suit before (briefs) for squatting and DL'ing and it's a lot of fun but hard to get the hang of at first.

Colm_OReilly

In addition to what Trib said about solving the issue rather than masking it, how about you stop doing leg presses?

The leg press machine works your muscles in an unnatural way - your joints must extend/flex along a path determined by the machine, and lose the nuerological part of strength by not having to stabilise itself. Also, Your body's designed to work as a unit, and not in isolation. Working the leg press is probably leading to the imbalances in muscular strength that are causing the knee pain.

As regards the squat, perhaps you're not ready for 100Kg? whatever part of your body/muscular isn't strong enough to handle the load at 100Kg is being exposed at that weight. Drop down the weight (to maybe 90/95) and ensure you've strict form on the squat so that you can build your body up.

Colm

Boston

Hmm, You make a very good point about the leg press. I handn't thought of it in that way but I can see exactly where you're coming from. The leg press is gone. I've knocked the squat back to 90kg and that seems better, though I've definitely done something on the leg press to my right knee. For the next few days I'm working on just flexibility, stretches and low intensity knee work.

Dragan

Supplement wise i suggest a product called Nutriplex, which you can pick up in Health Matters and places like that.

Here's the spiel on the ingrediants but it's basically a ready made version of a home brew that i used to make and take.

Glucosamine: Found naturally in the body mainly in and around the joints and connective tissues. As we grow older, our bodies lose the capacity to make enough glucosamine, which is a key component in ensuring joint mobility and the correct functioning of the joint fluids and surrounding tissues.

Methyl Sulphonyl Methane (MSM): Clinical evidence proves that MSM effectively reduces joint pain and stiffness by helping prevent the build up of toxins and pressure within cells. This then reduces the expansion that causes inflammation and irritation.

Hydrolysed Collagen: Containing amino acids and peptides that with added vitamins and minerals provide the ideal nutritional ingredients to allow quick joint repair regeneration and recovery.

Hanley

I've never had any knee problems at all. I don't wear then sleeves because my knees are sore already, I wear them to prevent them getting sore in future!!

If yor knees are already sore then something is amiss. May be form or muscular imbalance.

i'd venture a guess and say your form might be the problem. I know you said people have said your squats look fine, but if they're anything like some of the people I've seen in TF giving advice I wouldn't take their word as gospel.

There's alot of minor things you can be doing while squatting that are hurting your knees that you might not even know about like...

A video would be helpful if you could get one?

Transform

Totally agree with Hanley - more than likely its form and certainly you should not need a belt, shirt or wraps at just 100kg.

Boston

Well I'll find out soon enough if its the form. Someone here has kindly offered to take a look at it for me next week.

Hanley

Boston wrote: »

Well I'll find out soon enough if its the form. Someone here has kindly offered to take a look at it for me next week.

Make sure they know what they're looking for. You want to make sure you're breaking at the hips and not the knees. But I'm sure they'll know that!

Boston

Just an update on this.

Form wise:

I was rotating my upper back on some lifts. As in I was going up with my hips then straightening out my back.

My Center was off so I need to sit in the squat more then I was.

My arms where doing nothing, absolutely nothing.

Since then:

I immediately dropped the weight down to 60kg and kept doing that until my back remained neutral for the entire movement.

I took a wider stance with my feet to allow me to sit into the squat more and really just build confidence that I wasn't going to fall over. Also now my hips are doing most of the work rather then my knees.

I've aligned my arms and wrists so they are in line with the barbell, thus allowing me the assert a downwards force either side as If I'm bending the bar across my back. This has resulted in my shoulder blades being in a more suitable (comfortable) position for carrying the bumbell, its also given me far greater stability on the movement.

Finally I was also shown how to do dynamic warm ups which have really increased my flexibility.

To say I've seen a massive improvement would be an understatement.

g'em

Boston wrote: »

To say I've seen a massive improvement would be an understatement.

w00t \o/ !!! Excellent to hear

pwd

I've always been of the mind that supports around joints should be avoided because they stop the supporting muscle and ligament from developing as much. So if you don't use them you will be less likely to need them in the future.

I think that weight training using sensible exercises and good form should prevent joint injury, not cause it. I've had a sore knee that developed when I wasn't training, and squatting seemed to fix it. I had a sore back for ages and squatting and deadlifts seemed to fix that too.

BossArky

Boston wrote: »

Finally I was also shown how to do dynamic warm ups which have really increased my flexibility.

Any links of further explanations on the dynamic warm ups?