Social welfare payments

connundrum

I'm starting to get into my annual begrudging mood, and this year I'm gunning for the long term unemployed.

What is the fear in stopping payments to people who have been unemployed for 6 months+ ? Surely the politicians wouldn't be afraid of losing the vote as people who can't make it to work on a daily basis would harldy make the effort to vote on the big day.

I just think that the money could be put to better use, or probably worse use (i.e. the HSE), but at least it'd be put to different use.

Could we not just cut them off? Whats the hold up? I'd rather see pensioners benefit from the money rather than see Johnno head down to the bookies every week with my tax dollars.

And this proving that you've been looking for a job system is the biggest scam ever. Pah#!

lezizi

Is it all the social welfare payments or just the dole?
I was passing the dole office a few weeks ago and there is a huge ' Dell is hiring' poster on the door.

RoundyMooney

We should start with the dole.

Conn, I totally agree with you, but we've bred such a culture of dependence into these individuals now that there's no way back.

A sizeable proportion of those on de dole will either never work again, or are firmly rooted in the black economy, and paraxodically are the first ones to cry and moan, without a hint of hypocrisy when they don't get their entitlements.

They are a drain on the exchequer that we have to live with :mad:

connundrum

Maybe just the dole for the time being. Although we do all know 'single mother' and 'disability' payments which should be completely stopped, but in the interest of peace, just the dole.

lezizi

connundrum wrote:

Maybe just the dole for the time being. Although we do all know 'single mother' and 'disability' payments which should be completely stopped, but in the interest of peace, just the dole.

What about people who are really disabled?
The dole would be the only one you would be able to get rid of.

parsi

Can students still apply for the dole ? Seems a waste seeing as they aren't really looking for work and our taxes also pay for them during the year (ducks).

We should also have the revenue go chasing security companies - there seems to be a lot of security folk who don't display their ID badges which makes you wonder if they are licensed at all (I presume that licensing involves the Revenue having an old poke around..).

There is a large black economy in the country. I suppose one way of looking at is is that the money paid goes into circulation anyway . The other way of looking is that PAYE folk have to pay the tax _before_ they get the bobs so why should other folk avoid it ?

cance

free money for the lazy, single mothers and physically challenged.
huge morgages/rent, oppressive spouses and a raping weekly/monthly from the taxman for the hopeful!

what a time to be alive.

/wrists

paul666

i have to agree some of the guys on the dole that i no love been on the dole the odd nixer hear and there cash in the paw they have a better life then most ... but then there are the guys that have been working all their lives and get left go at the ages of 40's upwards they would find it harder to get jobs.

Ruen

I dont understand why anybody works then if it's such a great life being on the dole....

lezizi

cance wrote:

free money for the lazy, single mothers and physically challenged.

I come under all of those things ha ha

JohnnyStones

parsi wrote:

Can students still apply for the dole ? Seems a waste seeing as they aren't really looking for work and our taxes also pay for them during the year (ducks).

We should also have the revenue go chasing security companies - there seems to be a lot of security folk who don't display their ID badges which makes you wonder if they are licensed at all (I presume that licensing involves the Revenue having an old poke around..).

There is a large black economy in the country. I suppose one way of looking at is is that the money paid goes into circulation anyway . The other way of looking is that PAYE folk have to pay the tax _before_ they get the bobs so why should other folk avoid it ?

Can students still apply for the dole ?


Yes if your a mature student(over 24 i think)

parsi

And a suspended sentence (and a fine) if you commit tax fraud:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/1009/collinsm.html

Orange69

cance wrote:

free money for the lazy, single mothers and physically challenged.
huge morgages/rent, oppressive spouses and a raping weekly/monthly from the taxman for the hopeful!

what a time to be alive.

/wrists

2 words for you...

Fianna failure..

Mrs. MacGyver

parsi wrote:

Can students still apply for the dole ? Seems a waste seeing as they aren't really looking for work and our taxes also pay for them during the year (ducks).

We should also have the revenue go chasing security companies - there seems to be a lot of security folk who don't display their ID badges which makes you wonder if they are licensed at all (I presume that licensing involves the Revenue having an old poke around..).

There is a large black economy in the country. I suppose one way of looking at is is that the money paid goes into circulation anyway . The other way of looking is that PAYE folk have to pay the tax _before_ they get the bobs so why should other folk avoid it ?

No students can't sign on as they would not be available for or genuinely seeking work.

If you start a course and are 23 by the 1st of January in which the course starts then you can sign onn for the summer provided all the conditions for payment are satisifed.

godtabh

Any one who wants to work in this country can. There is no shortage of jobs.

But a lot of these jobs are no below the Irish but is ok for people coming from abroad to earn their way.

If you can work and dont work you should be forced to work.

5starpool

I was on the dole for about 3 months and I felt dirty tbh.

kevmy

This idea is cock.

You will always end up paying for these people end of. If it's not the dole it's something else.

Shall we take America as an example where just such a system is in place. Over there there is an abundance of homeless/jobless/poor people hanging around all day. You can say they aren't looking for a job and will just stay on the dole and your probably right. You can say taking them off the dole will make them work and your probably wrong.

You see these people your taking aim at will never work dole or no dole. From the American experience we see some of them drift into petty crime, begging and the like when no dole is available. They clog up the streets, the hospitals and the prisons.

At least if you pay them the dole they can keep some dignity, keep an apartment, keep them out of poverty, keep them from putting strain on the whole social services industry (which is close to breaking point in this country as it is). Also by arbitrarily stating 6 months you take aim at people who happen to be on the dole for more than 6 months and are trying to get a job. It may surprise you but people in this country can be unemployed for more than 6 months and still be trying hard to get a job.

Overall I don't think it's a good idea. What you will gain in one hand you lose in the other. Also the punishment of a large minority just because the majority isn't exactly fair.

Dennis the Stone

What an annoying thread. Thousands of people genuinely struggling to live above the poverty line, struggling to enter employment with poor education, struggling to shake off the stigma of being unemployed, living in poverty traps because of the obvious stereotype that they are scroungers, all because of some stupid idea that everyone on the dole is having a great time going to the bookies every day, drinking every day. Horse****. 185.80 a week, barely enough to cover rent and food. I'm happy to pay for people in genuine need, as are most people

Duiske

connundrum wrote:

Maybe just the dole for the time being. Although we do all know 'single mother' and 'disability' payments which should be completely stopped, but in the interest of peace, just the dole.

Why do you feel "disability" payments should be stopped ? I was in a serious accident about 4 years ago, fractured a bone in my neck, lost the sight in one eye, and was very lucky not to be left completely blind. VHI paid my medical bills, and insurance paid my mortgage for 8 months until I got back to work.
My only income for those 8 months was "disability", for which I might add, I was extremely feck'in grateful. What I recieved over those 8 months was a mere fraction of my contributions to social insurance over the past 20 yrs.

For me, "disability" payments did what they are designed to do. Made life easier when I needed the help. Sure, the system may need a more ruthless approach to root out the scammers, but for the most part, I find it works pretty well.

Ghost Train

i like your signature op

If you have a problem, complain to the relevant authority. It'll take as much time as it does to cry your eyes out here.

I'll hug you. Always.

Guy:Incognito

kevmy wrote:

It may surprise you but people in this country can be unemployed for more than 6 months and still be trying hard to get a job..

Only because they wont do certain work.

If it came down to work to earn or die, everyone can earn a wage somewhere, be it in a shop, as a cleaner etc.

connundrum

kevmy wrote:

This idea is cock..

kevmy wrote:

You will always end up paying for these people end of. If it's not the dole it's something else..

I disagree, the fact that we haven't tried the 'something else' would tell me that there's at least an opportunity to change things a bit. While I agree that we'll probably never solve the entire problem, I'd be happy if we can dent the numbers a bit.

kevmy wrote:

Shall we take America as an example where just such a system is in place. Over there there is an abundance of homeless/jobless/poor people hanging around all day. You can say they aren't looking for a job and will just stay on the dole and your probably right. You can say taking them off the dole will make them work and your probably wrong..

Again, how do you know I'm probably wrong? Have we ever just stopped the dole? Have we ever actually thought about just stopping it to see what'd happen? The country wouldn't stop ticking over like.

kevmy wrote:

At least if you pay them the dole they can keep some dignity, keep an apartment, keep them out of poverty, keep them from putting strain on the whole social services industry (which is close to breaking point in this country as it is). Also by arbitrarily stating 6 months you take aim at people who happen to be on the dole for more than 6 months and are trying to get a job. It may surprise you but people in this country can be unemployed for more than 6 months and still be trying hard to get a job..

So I'm paying for them to have some dignity. Why can't they go out and work and gather up their own bits of dignity. There can't be any pride in living off a hand out for several months and years, but whats happened is that it has become socially acceptable for people to do so - therefore the worry over pride and dignity is negated.

And whats wrong with a period of 6 months? What time frame would you suggest? 6 months is plenty of time for anyone to find a job. You won't find your ideal job, but why should the tax payer pay for you to faff about finding yourself and discovering what your passion is?

Get a job, pay your bills. Full stop.

kevmy wrote:

Overall I don't think it's a good idea. What you will gain in one hand you lose in the other. Also the punishment of a large minority just because the majority isn't exactly fair.

I don't think I understand what you mean by this?

Duiske_Lad wrote:

Why do you feel "disability" payments should be stopped ? I was in a serious accident about 4 years ago, fractured a bone in my neck, lost the sight in one eye, and was very lucky not to be left completely blind. VHI paid my medical bills, and insurance paid my mortgage for 8 months until I got back to work.
My only income for those 8 months was "disability", for which I might add, I was extremely feck'in grateful. What I recieved over those 8 months was a mere fraction of my contributions to social insurance over the past 20 yrs.

For me, "disability" payments did what they are designed to do. Made life easier when I needed the help. Sure, the system may need a more ruthless approach to root out the scammers, but for the most part, I find it works pretty well.

I can see that I may not have been clear with this.

When I say 'single mothers' - I'm speaking of single mothers who are living in a state provided house with their partner (long term) and her three children (all from the same partner) whilst claiming her single mothers allowance.

I fully agree that genuine cases should be looked after, where an actual single mother is struggling with her child. I feel that the other fake cases are ruining it for the genuine cases (as it is with most things in life)

With the disability comment - I refer to people who are feigning injury in order to receive payment. I understand that a lot of people who suffer with genuine disabilities are fully entitled to their benefit, and would not disagree with that.

The point of the thread was to express my opinion that wasters and fakers should be cut from social welfare payments altogether - genuine cases do not come into the firing range.

eolhc wrote:

i like your signature op

. In my defense, I only rant about once a year. Give or take 5 or 6 rants.

Duiske

connundrum wrote:

With the disability comment - I refer to people who are feigning injury in order to receive payment. I understand that a lot of people who suffer with genuine disabilities are fully entitled to their benefit, and would not disagree with that.

The point of the thread was to express my opinion that wasters and fakers should be cut from social welfare payments altogether - genuine cases do not come into the firing range.



. In my defense, I only rant about once a year. Give or take 5 or 6 rants.

Fair enough.

The fact that some GP's throw sick certs about like confetti at a wedding does not help either.

Ruen

connundrum wrote:

I can see that I may not have been clear with this.

When I say 'single mothers' - I'm speaking of single mothers who are living in a state provided house with their partner (long term) and her three children (all from the same partner) whilst claiming her single mothers allowance.

I fully agree that genuine cases should be looked after, where an actual single mother is struggling with her child. I feel that the other fake cases are ruining it for the genuine cases (as it is with most things in life)

With the disability comment - I refer to people who are feigning injury in order to receive payment. I understand that a lot of people who suffer with genuine disabilities are fully entitled to their benefit, and would not disagree with that.

The point of the thread was to express my opinion that wasters and fakers should be cut from social welfare payments altogether - genuine cases do not come into the firing range.



. In my defense, I only rant about once a year. Give or take 5 or 6 rants.

Fakers do get cut off when they get caught, that's always been the way.

leninbenjamin

make them do construction work during the night on roads or other public works. there fore the dole will still be there for those who need, we get something out of it we wouldn't have otherwise and freeloaders will be discouraged.

stepbar

To all those who think people who sign on the Dole are scum of the earth yada yada yada... Here's a challenge...

Quit your job in the morning. Go look for a new one. Then come back and tell us how long it took you to get one. Then tell us if you are able to live on the money said job pays. Some of ye might have better luck than others.

A bit of realism is needed here boys and girls :rolleyes: Are you seriously telling me that if you were earning 30k a year (for example) and had x number of commitments (maybe a kid, a mortgage, car etc), that you would take any old job just to get by? Reluctantly or out of pure despiration you would. And even then you might not even be able to get by. I read somewhere* that 20% of the working population live in constant poverty!!!! 20%!!!!! (* Think it was in the indo last week?)

Far from anybody to be critising people on the dole, when there are any number of individuals paying ZERO tax and diverting money off out to tax shelters etc. Maybe we should be encouraging the government to take a bit more off those who can well afford it.

Anyhow, the dole is meant to be short term; that's why they call it the "Job seekers allowance" nowadays . I wouldn't have any shame taking job seekers allowance if I needed to do so. Why would I?

Moojuice

There are those who abuse the system but that is no reason to punish everyone. Kevmy is right we will end up paying for these people one way or another. Disability payments should not be stopped. If there is a problem with them it is that they are not acessed properly. I think this thread is typical of the new Ireland and the current generation who are doing ok for themselves. Its the Fianna Failure lie, there are plenty of people who have seen nothing of the celtic tiger and never will. The gap between rich and poor is massive. One should judge a society on how we treat the poor and destitute. There is no way they should be punished for the crimes of a few scumbags.

Its not the dole or the scroungers we need to worry about and change, its the rich who pay no tax and bleed the cuntry dry all faciliated by Fianna Failure. Massive amounts of money are sent out of the cuntry and not paid in tax. Its the way Fianna Failure set it up. If anything people should be angry at this.

There are alwyas going to be scammers and it is these people we need to weed out......

JohnnyStones

leninbenjamin wrote:

make them do construction work during the night on roads or other public works. there fore the dole will still be there for those who need, we get something out of it we wouldn't have otherwise and freeloaders will be discouraged.

You should run for Taoiseach you'd get my vote anyway.:)

I don't think you'd have a chance of winning though.:)



:cool:

Ruen

leninbenjamin wrote:

make them do construction work during the night on roads or other public works. there fore the dole will still be there for those who need, we get something out of it we wouldn't have otherwise and freeloaders will be discouraged.

So would they get paid the current JLC rates for construction workers?

Lynibeth

Kemos wrote:

What an annoying thread. Thousands of people genuinely struggling to live above the poverty line, struggling to enter employment with poor education, struggling to shake off the stigma of being unemployed, living in poverty traps because of the obvious stereotype that they are scroungers, all because of some stupid idea that everyone on the dole is having a great time going to the bookies every day, drinking every day. Horse****. 185.80 a week, barely enough to cover rent and food. I'm happy to pay for people in genuine need, as are most people

Exactly.

Everyone who's being bitter about it obviously has no firsthand experience of poverty or disability. And if they do, then they're just warped in their views

Uuuh Patsy

Lynibeth wrote:

Exactly.

Everyone who's being bitter about it obviously has no firsthand experience of poverty or disability. And if they do, then they're just warped in their views

Here Here, Most of them are probably little boys/girls who haven't experienced redundancy yet (or puberty) and having to pay the mortgage and feed 4 mouths. God love them. I feel sorry for them. There in for a shock.