Expert calling for speed limiters

Gregor Samsa

"The number of people killed on Irish roads could be reduced by up to 30% if new technology was installed in vehicles to make drivers obey speed limits."

That's according to Oliver Carsten, Professor of Transportation Safety in Leeds University, from this article:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/1009/roadsafety.html

(don't shoot the messenger )

Blitzkrieger

Professor of F**kwittery? Study after study has proven him wrong. You have to question his credentials and/or motives.

biko

Blitzkrieger wrote:

Study after study has proven him wrong.

Could you link to some? I would have thought it was the other way around.

siralfalot

phutyle wrote:

"The number of people killed on Irish roads could be reduced by up to 30% if new technology was installed in vehicles to make drivers obey speed limits."

That's according to Oliver Carsten, Professor of Transportation Safety in Leeds University, from this article:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/1009/roadsafety.html

(don't shoot the messenger )

thats laughable

timmywex

no way, if someone buys a car, the government shouldnt decide what happens to it, people have the right to drive at whatever speed on private land.

Owen

Speed Limiters? Idiocy. They'll cause a multitude of accidents. Every few weeks some 'expert' calls for these, and thankfully the public realise how many issues you'd be causing by installing these. I'm hoping evolution will cause the extinction of these so called 'experts' and remove them from the genepool. In the event that Mr. Darwin is incorrect, or evolution takes too long, I'll have a shotgun waiting for the first person to try and fit any of my vehicles with a limiter.

prendy

I'll have a shotgun waiting for the first person to try and

.....
i bet alot of people said this about smoking outside, random breath tests etc!

C_Breeze

ned78 wrote:

Speed Limiters? Idiocy. They'll cause a multitude of accidents. Every few weeks some 'expert' calls for these, and thankfully the public realise how many issues you'd be causing by installing these. I'm hoping evolution will cause the extinction of these so called 'experts' and remove them from the genepool. In the event that Mr. Darwin is incorrect, or evolution takes too long, I'll have a shotgun waiting for the first person to try and fit any of my vehicles with a limiter.

Well said!!

Wossack

'..by up to 30%' ? so realistically, 20-25%? is that all? surely if they intended for this to be taken more seriously he'd have made up a bigger number..? imagine the costs involved (every car? ), and then think if they took that projected money and poured it into driver training, safer roads etc (not more shock-tactic road safety ads) and I wonder what out estemed prof would calculate for reduction in road deaths..?

Im all for the breathaliser fitted to cars idea mentioned a few weeks ago, but this ones just ridiculus.

Rovi

I think variable GPS controlled speed limitiers would be great!
Everyone could drive around with their foot buried to the floor at all times in the sure and certain knowledge that the limiter would keep their speed just under the limit, thus ensuring everyone's complete safety.

I for one welcome our new speed limiter overlords. :rolleyes:

Stark

He should tell Pat Kenny about this wonder technology...

Pete4779

phutyle wrote:

"The number of people killed on Irish roads could be reduced by up to 30% if new technology was installed in vehicles to make drivers obey speed limits."

That's according to Oliver Carsten, Professor of Transportation Safety in Leeds University, from this article:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/1009/roadsafety.html

(don't shoot the messenger )

If it will reduce the number killed by 30%, then speed is only a factor in 30% of fatal accidents.

Should we be looking instead at what is causing 70% of fatal accidents?

ANd if it's only "up to 30% , then isn't this basically an admission that in over 70% of fatal accidents speed is *not* a factor?

Stark

Stark wrote:

He should tell Pat Kenny about this wonder technology...

bushy...

I'd reckon they'd be really sneaky about it , give everyone a year to get sorted , then go on a speed trapping mission. If you are then caught over the limit ,you must have tampered with the limiter.
There must be lots of data around by now from speed limiters in trucks.

farva

I think it makes perfect sense...

You'll be limited to 60 KM/H on wide open (non accident blackspot) Dublin dual carraigeways...most of the N11. In rush hour, traffic is generally exceeding 60 KM/H on this road...but thats apparently a safety risk!

And then you can go down the country to the vast majority of narrow country roads (barely able to allow 2 cars to pass) and can drive the absolute sh1t out of your car at 80 or 100 KM/H all day long until you crash and kill yourself or someone else! But you weren't doing anything illegal as you're keeping within the "controlled speed limits"

Del2005

If cars can't break the speed limit then everyone will just drive with their foot to the floor cause it has to be safe. And we'd never have to worry about rain, mud etc as the box would see these and slow the car down.

I've read and seen before, but have no links, that they have made cars and roads that self drive. But no-one will install them in case of accidents:D

cyclopath2001

I think you guys are missing the point. If technology can help deal with illegal speeding by motorists that will free up resources to tackle other dangerous behaviour such as driving through amber traffic signals, driving on the hard shoulder, going the wrong way around roundabouts, not indicating, hand phone use while driving, illegal overtaking, dangerous parking, not having a valid license etc.

ArseBurger

cyclopath2001 wrote:

I think you guys are missing the point. If technology can help deal with illegal speeding by motorists that will free up resources to tackle other dangerous behaviour such as driving through amber traffic signals, driving on the hard shoulder, going the wrong way around roundabouts, not indicating, hand phone use while driving, illegal overtaking, dangerous parking, not having a valid license etc.

The basic rule of Economics is that people need incentives to do anything.

When seat belts, cushioned dashboards, safety glass etc... were introduced in the US in the 70's the number of accidents increased slightly as people 'felt' safer and so drove with less care and attention.

Limiting the car will only give the perception of safety and people will drive with their foot to the floor (as mentioned a couple of times above).

The best way to reduce accidents is to put a spike in the centre of the steering wheel.

craichoe

Aren't most Euroboxes limited to 155mph anyway

I know the M5 i was in wouldn't go over it anyway !

Motorbikes for provisional A drivers are already limited to 33kw, but its on power output which is understandable.

KlondikePaddy

Whats the big hurry about on our roads anyway? A guy/girl passes me out and when I come into the next major town I find that they are only two cars in front of me waiting at a junction. Happens every time. Anyone especially boy racers who are caught speeding should have their cars immediately confiscated, sold and the proceeds given to a good cause. That would cut out a lot of the idiotic behaviour on our roads-penalty points arent keeping the number of deaths down-simple fact!!!

KlondikePaddy

Forgot to say-yes limit the speed on all cars lorries etc except emergency vehicles.

I.S.T.

cyclopath2001 wrote:

I think you guys are missing the point. If technology can help deal with illegal speeding by motorists...

But how is a speed limiter going to solve anything? What will you set the limit at, 120kmh? That will not stop someone driving at 120kmh in a 50kmh zone outside a school. It's the daftest idea I've ever heard.

Alun

IrishSpeedTraps wrote:

But how is a speed limiter going to solve anything? What will you set the limit at, 120kmh? That will not stop someone driving at 120kmh in a 50kmh zone outside a school. It's the daftest idea I've ever heard.

I guess they're suggesting using GPS enabled technology, as has been trialled dozens of times before without anything ever coming of it. It all sounds easy to do in theory, but in practice I can imagine all kinds of problems, not the least of which would be the inaccuracies of the current maps, and there being no official channels here through which changes in road layout or speed limits can be relayed to the map makers.

I agree though, its a stupid idea, and will cause more problems than it may solve.

I.S.T.

Alun wrote:

I guess they're suggesting using GPS enabled technology...

So the system would allow you to do 80kmh on this road:

Laughable!

Owen

KlondikePaddy wrote:

Anyone especially boy racers who are caught speeding should have their cars immediately confiscated, sold and the proceeds given to a good cause. That would cut out a lot of the idiotic behaviour on our roads-penalty points arent keeping the number of deaths down-simple fact!!

How old are you? Anyone who gets caught speeding has their car confiscated and sold? The economic calamity that would cause by literally having thousands of people out there, with no car, and still paying car finance for 5 years. And how exactly would you set up a grading system to determine who's a car enthusiast, or a boy racer?

seamus

We have laws because we have the freedom to make choices. Attempting to force compliance with the law in this manner, removes people's right to choose. Imagine if they banned the sale and use of all knives just to prevent knife murders.

Same principle. As others have said too, I also believe this would create a false idea of what is and isn't a safe speed to drive. Drivers need to be trained correctly to use their judgement, not have their judgement replaced with electronic automation.

Stark

IrishSpeedTraps wrote:

So the system would allow you to do 80kmh on this road:
Laughable!

I think you need a new example pic, that one's been done to death.

ned78 wrote:

And how exactly would you set up a grading system to determine who's a car enthusiast, or a boy racer?

1 boy racer point for every year younger than 25

Blitzkrieger

KlondikePaddy wrote:

boy racers who are caught speeding should have their cars immediately confiscated,

Way too harsh. TBH, I'd group driving offences into two catagories : Dangerous Driving and Careless Driving. If you're caught deliberatly driving dangerously you should have the book thrown at you.......and maybe a fridge as well. For a serious offence you should do jail time. If you're guilty of careless driving the cause should be indentified and appriopriate punishment given out, but the focus should be on educating you so that you don't do it again. Repeat offenders should just be banned.

Speeding isn't nessecarily dangerous driving. I wouldn't admit to driving at 10kph over the proposed speed limit of 120kph (actual limit 100kph) for much of my drive to work this morning, but if I had, what difference would have made? The road has been deemed to be safe enough to have a 120kph limit and if my speedo shows 130kph, I'm probably actually travelling at closer to 115kph. How is that dangerous driving?

On the other hand, I was nearing home last night at 50mph when someone pulled out in front of me, causing me to brake. The speed limit was 60mph - what good would a speed limiter have done there? The same plonker eventually reached a speed of 45mph and maintained it through the town.......I guess - I slowed down when we reached the built-up area, he rapidly left me behind and started tailgating another car. A speed limiter might have slowed him down a bit but the impatient/ignorant prick would probably have been even closer to the car in front of him when it braked suddendly and parked without indicating.

LFCFan

Speed limiters would be a disaster, even GPS controlled ones. What if you're overtaking a car doing 50KMH in a 80KMH Zone and you've just about passed him when you enter a 50KMH zone. What happens? There are plenty of examples of straight, safe, broken lined roads where the speed limit drops. There are so many examples of when a limiter would do more harm then good.

RobAMerc

This is a fookin idiotic idea dreamed up by idiots to keep idiots amused :mad:
Its been bandied about for years and idiots still pick up and run with it.

bushy...

RobAMerc wrote:

This is a fookin idiotic idea dreamed up by idiots to keep idiots amused :mad:
Its been bandied about for years and idiots still pick up and run with it.

Yip , but there would be a lot of moey to be made if you could come up with a workable one.

E92

prendy wrote:

.....
i bet alot of people said this about smoking outside, random breath tests etc!

Indeed thats the danger, speed limiters in cars must NEVER be allowed to happen.

But I know that it will eventually.

If I want electronics to do the job I'm supposed to do, whats the point in learning how to drive.

People will never learn how to handle their vehicles properly if they are artificially limited to certain speed.

I'm beginning to fear that the nanny state is stepping up a gear......

Isn't one of the benefits of democracy that we can do what we want, we have freedom, individual liberties etc?

Its like we're going towards a dictatorship with the notion of speed limiters in our cars.

We already have really slow speed limits like only 100 km/h on roads that are essentially Motorways(those HQDC things), only 120 km/h on actual motorways.

In Germany the Autobahns which have no speed limits no more dangerous than those with a speed limit. This startling piece of information was actually revealed by the German Government back in 2005. The average speed travelled on the Autobahns with no speed limit is 150 km/h. A limited Autobahn will have a limit of 120 or 130 km/h.

Now, it is true to say that speed limits were introduced on German Autobahns because some parts were accident blackspots.

However the real reason why speed limits were introduced is because of enviornmental pressures, because the roads were getting very busy so it was impossible to go faster than the speed limit, and because of the noise pollution from high speed driving.

So nothing to do with safety then.

The UK's very own Department for Transport has studys shown where speed is only responsible for 5% of road deaths. And this is in a country full of those dreaded speed cameras.

That means we are focusing on something that makes absolutely no difference whatsoever to road safety on roads designed for high speed motoring, and on something that makes only a 5% difference on all roads in general.

Why not focus on whats causing the other 95% of deaths on the roads?

E92

KlondikePaddy wrote:

Forgot to say-yes limit the speed on all cars lorries etc except emergency vehicles.

All vechicles bar cars and vans are already speed limited. Its an EU regulation.

Apparantly vans will be fitted with speed limiters soon, because apparantly some vans are very quick these days and people are driving them as fast as they would drive a car, but of course Physics dictates that because thaey are a much higher vehicle, and have a higher centre of gravity(than a car), they are much more suceptable to cross winds, which makes them more liable to turning over when taking corners at high speed.

Cars are effectively limited already anyway, the gentlemens agreement(which the manufactureres actually came up with themselves btw) whereby cars are electronically limited to 250 km/h should they be capable of more applies to virtually every car bar something like a Ferrari/Porsche etc(and how many of these are on our roads exactly:eek: ?)

SUVs by and large are electronically limited to 210 km/h too.(though some are to 250 km/h, and Porsche don'tr bother with this speed limiting business)

GoneShootin

What you want is thus:

If speed limit = 50, then as you pass into an area with a limi of 50, the car sets itself to max out at 50. The reverse is true on the way out of the limit area into a higher limit area.

Something like this:



The car buyer still has the choice and free will to get to the limit as quickly and as crazily as they currently do, but once they hit the limit thats the end of it. Think of is as wireless speed hotspots.

seamus

GoneShootin wrote:

The car buyer still has the choice and free will to get to the limit as quickly and as crazily as they currently do, but once they hit the limit thats the end of it. Think of is as wireless speed hotspots.

But of course then people start to think that the car can do the work for them and shure if the car says it's OK to go 80KM/H, then it must be.

The simple fact here is that no evidence has ever been presented by any safety body in this country, that exceeding the speed limit is a major cause of road deaths. They all list, "excessive" and "inappropriate" speed, never "breaking the speed limit". Speed limit enforcement is a red herring at best. An excuse to make it look like they're doing something significant.

I'm not saying that exceeding the speed limit isn't a cause of some accidents - clearly it has to be. But that picture says it all. When someone can do 80km/h legally around blind bends on roads that barely accomodate two modern cars, then we will continue to see people dying because they failed to drive appropriately for the conditions, even if they were driving legally.

Forcing people to stick to the speed limits by using electronic limiters is another blasé attempt to pander to the hysterical minority who think that people who break the speed limit are the devil's children.

I.S.T.

E92 wrote:

All vechicles bar cars and vans are already speed limited. Its an EU regulation.

What is the limiter set to for buses? I was driving on a road in Galway with a 100kmh limit at the weekend. I was doing exactly 100kmh and there was a Bus Eireann bus right up my arse. I eventually pulled over and let him pass as he was distracting me he was driving so close.

Mc-BigE

Even if the "Wonderful" Government who we allowed back into power, agreed to this speed Limiter thingy, its only a matter of time before some computer geek will plug in a laptop and remove the electronic limiter. It can already be done on the 150mph euro limiter cars, so why not these ones.

They should be concentrating on the bigger issue of drink driving by inventing an Autopilot for cars.

craichoe

IrishSpeedTraps wrote:

What is the limiter set to for buses? I was driving on a road in Galway with a 100kmh limit at the weekend. I was doing exactly 100kmh and there was a Bus Eireann bus right up my arse. I eventually pulled over and let him pass as he was distracting me he was driving so close.

Haha .. yeah .. a Bus Eireann bus hammered past me on the ballincollig bypass .. i was doing 100kph on the dot and he went past me like i was standing still

E92

IrishSpeedTraps wrote:

What is the limiter set to for buses?

Haven't a clue. Of course just because its an EU requirement doesn't mean it won't be enforced. I'm sure that speed limiters are "altered" from time to time. Its not just car enthusiasts that like to remove speed limiters I'm sure.

The limit for trucks is 90 km/h. The limit for Motorbikes is 300 km/h.

The speed limit for all Commerical vehicles(excluding vans) is 80 km/h anyway. I presume buses have a limit of 80 km/h too. Incidentally its also the speed limit for cars towing something is 80 km/h.

And obviously if there is a limit lower than 80 km/h, then that must by obeyed in lieu of the general 80 km/h limit.

Blitzkrieger

E92 wrote:

All vechicles bar cars and vans are already speed limited. Its an EU regulation.

I also forgot to mention - the top speed limiter on my car almost killed me before I got it removed. I was rounding a corner on the Nordshcleife and hit 136mph when the ECU backed off all the power. This unbalanced the car and the back end started coming out, almost sending me spinning towards the crash barrier. Frustrating knowing there was more in the engine and I couldn't go faster - especially as I was against the clock.

I can imagine situations where it could happend on the road but I don't know how likely it would be.....

farva

Blitzkrieger wrote:

I also forgot to mention - the top speed limiter on my car almost killed me before I got it removed. I was rounding a corner on the Nordshcleife and hit 136mph when the ECU backed off all the power. This unbalanced the car and the back end started coming out, almost sending me spinning towards the crash barrier. Frustrating knowing there was more in the engine and I couldn't go faster - especially as I was against the clock.

I can imagine situations where it could happend on the road but I don't know how likely it would be.....

Very good point, your example is a bit of an extreme but in principle you're right.

Imagine going along a fairly windy wet country road in a rear wheel drive car (say 200+bhp...maybe not even!) in a low gear at fairly high revs with half worn / cheap tyres. Your taking a corner at 80km/h and then suddenly the speed limit drops to 50km/h and your ECU cuts the power to the driving wheels...you're gauranteed to be heading towards the ditch sideways!!

GoneShootin

I think "suddenly drops" would be a bit extreme. When entering a new limit there would have to be a gradual drop in speed.

cyclopath2001

seamus wrote:

Imagine if they banned the sale and use of all knives just to prevent knife murders.

You mean like in S.I. No. 66/1991 — Firearms and Offensive Weapons Act, 1990 (Offensive Weapons) Order, 1991.?

Far more people are killed as a result of speeding than knife murders.

MrPudding

cyclopath2001 wrote:

You mean like in S.I. No. 66/1991 — Firearms and Offensive Weapons Act, 1990 (Offensive Weapons) Order, 1991.?

Far more people are killed as a result of speeding than knife murders.

What! Kitchen knives are banned?

MrP