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Raw Discussion - 9/10/07 (contains spoilers!)

  • 09-10-2007 3:55am
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,640 ✭✭✭✭


    That was one of the best Raw shows I've seen in a long time. Probably a key factor in that being the return of the Heartbreak Kid! Yeah baby! Here are some thoughts I have from the show...

    - The Hornswoggle skits don't really do anything for me but I thought this week was pretty amusing. I love Coach in his role as the unlucky lackey. Without him these skits would suck big time.

    - Great to see John Cena looking good following his surgery. He is the true champion really and hopefully he'll reclaim his title next year.

    - Lillian's song was decent although the whole thing did remind me of the Eurovision with it being a rock song in a different language. It did lead to a brilliant little segment...

    - Ah Santino! Oh how I laughed as he did his little song. "They tried to make me watch The Condemned, I said no, no, no!" Can't remember the last time I laughed out loud from watching WWE but I did tonight so two thumbs up for Santino! Where was Maria though? :(

    - When I saw that Triple H was scheduled to face the WWE champion Randy Orton and the Samoan Bulldozer Umaga I thought to myself 'he's going to pull off a win somehow' and sure enough he did! Again I found myself laughing out loud (more in dismay in this instance). You have to see the funny side, right? Although since when does the savage monster Umaga use steel chairs? Can Triple H not just be beaten in normal circumstances by TWO top stars then? And how much time did they devote to him being carried away? I'd say that got more time than the women's match. Note to Umaga - STIFF THE QUADS.

    - The Kennedy/Hardy match was an enjoyable bout. It did look a bit clunky at times and Jeff looked very tired from the get-go but the crowd was into it and it's always nice to see that bleach-haired muppet get beat.

    - The final segment ruled. Its been a while since a Raw show got me on the edge of my seat but when HBK's music hit I was shocked! I liked Michael's look too, reminiscent of his old commissioner days being unshaven and sporting the cowboy hat. Can't wait until he gets back in the ring again. At the beginning of 2007 he was in f*cking awesome form. Might still end up the wrestler of the year. :cool:

    5609838

    All in all I found it the best Raw show in many, many weeks. Your thoughts?


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    hbk is back, cena is no longer champ, santino is the #1 comedy heel in the company, things are looking up for raw, although kennedys burial continues, this was meant to be his breakout year and he screwed it up for himself,pity


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭ShawnRaven


    krudler wrote:
    hbk is back, cena is no longer champ, santino is the #1 comedy heel in the company, things are looking up for raw, although kennedys burial continues, this was meant to be his breakout year and he screwed it up for himself,pity

    People were saying this about Orton about one point. Give it time, Kennedy will have his day.

    VR!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,081 ✭✭✭✭chopperbyrne


    So is Orton still champ or did HHH win the rematch last night?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,376 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    So is Orton still champ or did HHH win the rematch last night?

    orton is still champ, they put HHH up against orton and umaga at the same time, all 3 in the ring together, HHH nearly won clean to on numerous occasions before orton and umaga started bringing foreign objects into play.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    least HHH got a beating this time, i thought he was gonna pedigree them both at the same time while telling vince to suck it and doing the dx chop all together, HHH is superman now in case we didnt know


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    least HHH got a beating this time, i thought he was gonna pedigree them both at the same time while telling vince to suck it and doing the dx chop all together, HHH is superman now in case we didnt know


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,594 ✭✭✭Fozzy


    One of the better Raws. So I guess HHH doesn't want to hog the spotlight as the top face on Raw after all, and I'm all for that. I just hope that Randy and Shawn can have a better match at Cyber Sunday than the ones they've had with each other already this year. Maybe it was just me, but I could've sworn that Shawn was limping a little on his right leg. Hopefully he hasn't come back too soon

    Can't say I found Santino's segments that funny this week, but the last time I laughed out loud at WWE tv was definitely some time when Santino was on. Regal and Coach made me laugh with their first segment though

    London and Kendrick really need some mic time, it's the only way they're going to win over the rest of the crowd, as most people still seem indifferent towards them despite them often being involved on the best matches on shows

    Nice seeing Jeff beat Kennedy in a match where Jeff wasn't put in any danger, unlike their last two meetings on Raw


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭ShawnRaven


    krudler wrote:
    HHH is superman now in case we didnt know

    But isn't that what is promos leading up to his comeback were having us believe anyway? ;)

    VR!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,767 ✭✭✭Minto


    Haven't seen RAW yet, I had a look at HBK's return. I gotta say, I like the look he is going for, I think it suits him better.

    As for Triple H, as soon as I read about him winning by DQ on wwe.com, I knew people would be bitching on Boards, but whatever, there is enough thread on him at the moment.
    I do think that now would be a god time to turn him heel. He could have some great feuds with HBK, Jericho and Batista to name three. There is enough faces in or returning to the the WWE at the moment, time for a heel Triple H to return. Only prob with that is that he is so good at being a heel, that i'll be booing him again, lol!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,594 ✭✭✭Fozzy


    WWE.com says that we can vote for who Orton is to face at Cyber Sunday now, Shawn, Jeff Hardy or Kennedy. I assume that they'll announce the winner next week and still have the Hell in a Cell, Falls Count Anywhere or No-DQ vote for the match

    HHH shouldn't turn heel, there's too many heels. Umaga, Kennedy and Orton are the top three heels. There's HHH, HBK and Jeff Hardy as the top three faces, HHH turning heel would upset the balance too much at the moment. Keep him face, just not at the top of the card

    Whenever Shawn returns he's wearing some different kind of clothes, I don't really think there's anything to read into...


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,045 ✭✭✭Vince135792003


    Fozzy wrote:
    HHH shouldn't turn heel, there's too many heels. Umaga, Kennedy and Orton are the top three heels. There's HHH, HBK and Jeff Hardy as the top three faces, HHH turning heel would upset the balance too much at the moment. Keep him face, just not at the top of the card


    As I was saying on a previous thread, I see Triple H being involved in a long "quest" for the title culminating at 'Mania.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,640 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    Minto wrote:
    As for Triple H, as soon as I read about him winning by DQ on wwe.com, I knew people would be bitching on Boards, but whatever, there is enough thread on him at the moment.

    Maybe you're right. I mean, with Triple H facing Umaga and Randy Orton in a handicap match the odds were clearly in his favour, right? Oh wait...

    On the idea of a heel turn for Triple H I would welcome it for the simple fact that he might then actually have to sell and show some vulnerability towards his opponents. Then again...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,594 ✭✭✭Fozzy


    As I was saying on a previous thread, I see Triple H being involved in a long "quest" for the title culminating at 'Mania.

    I see him getting injured before then. The way he ran the ropes at No Mercy and on Raw doesn't give me confidence in his fitness. Otherwise he absolutely will be getting a title match at WM


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,767 ✭✭✭Minto


    Maybe you're right. I mean, with Triple H facing Umaga and Randy Orton in a handicap match the odds were clearly in his favour, right? Oh wait...

    I wasn't going to get into this today, but what the hell.
    What is wrong with a DQ finish? Umaga and Orton are heels, heels cheat, so why can't the heels get caught cheating? Does everything surrounding Triple H have to come down to him stroking his ego?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,640 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    Minto wrote:
    I wasn't going to get into this today, but what the hell.
    What is wrong with a DQ finish? Umaga and Orton are heels, heels cheat, so why can't the heels get caught cheating? Does everything surrounding Triple H have to come down to him stroking his ego?

    You're asking what is wrong with Triple H winning a handicap match against Umaga and the WWE champion? How about, it goes against all logic?

    Or do you think it logical for Triple H to be able to best Orton and Umaga in a
    handicap match in which both Orton and Umaga were in the ring AT THE SAME TIME?

    Love to hear your thoughts on that one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭ShawnRaven


    You're asking what is wrong with Triple H winning a handicap match against Umaga and the WWE champion? How about, it goes against all logic?

    It's a DQ finish! Heaven forbid that they push and make their top babyface look good. To me, that's perfectly logical!

    VR!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,767 ✭✭✭Minto


    You're asking what is wrong with Triple H winning a handicap match against Umaga and the WWE champion? How about, it goes against all logic?

    Since when did wrestling have to be logical? Was it logical when they put the belt on Khali? How about when TNA in general.

    Dude, just mellow out and enjoy wrestling for what it is, entertainment! You wouldn't be complaining if something similar happened in Fair City, or would you?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,376 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    it was pretty logical to put the belt on khali, he is like a foot taller and 150lb heavier than 80% of the roster. legit he could probably kill guys like triple h and randy orton with one strong punch


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,640 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    It's a DQ finish! Heaven forbid that they push and make their top babyface look good. To me, that's perfectly logical!

    Pushing a babyface is certainly logical but having a lone babyface beating Umaga and Orton is anything but.
    Minto wrote:
    Since when did wrestling have to be logical? Was it logical when they put the belt on Khali? How about when TNA in general.

    So you're saying two wrongs make a right? Well let's f*ck logic altogether then! How about next week we have HHH take on Umaga, Orton, Cade and Murdoch in a 4 on 1 elimination match match and we have HHH pin everybody? Won't make a bit of sense but hey at least the HHH fanboys will be happy!
    Minto wrote:
    Dude, just mellow out and enjoy wrestling for what it is, entertainment!

    Hate to break it to you but I don't find it entertaining at all to see Superman, aka Triple H, stroking his already massive ego on every f*cking show. I actually find it spoils things.
    Minto wrote:
    You wouldn't be complaining if something similar happened in Fair City, or would you?

    Don't tell me Triple H is on that show now!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭ShawnRaven


    Pushing a babyface is certainly logical but having a lone babyface beating Umaga and Orton is anything but.

    If it was a clean pin on Umaga, i'd agree, but it's DQ finish! You're not happy when he wins clean, you're not happy when he wins on a DQ. Nice jibe about Umaga stiffing the quads btw, very objective ;)

    VR!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,640 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    If it was a clean pin on Umaga, i'd agree, but it's DQ finish!

    That's irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. A win's a win. He's racking 'em up.
    You're not happy when he wins clean, you're not happy when he wins on a DQ.

    I'm not happy with him CONSTANTLY WINNING. The one match he lost since his return was to a guy who he had earlier won a match against.
    Nice jibe about Umaga stiffing the quads btw, very objective ;)

    I was thinking of making it my new sig. STIFF THE QUADS!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭ShawnRaven


    That's irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. A win's a win. He's racking 'em up.

    ... as a strong babyface should. See Cena, John. (especially during a title reign ;) )
    I'm not happy with him CONSTANTLY WINNING. The one match he lost since his return was to a guy who he had earlier won a match against.

    If it was Cena, you'd be cheering! But because it's not one of your boys...

    VR!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,767 ✭✭✭Minto


    I don't f*cking believe this! You call Cena superman because he has the title a too long and because he has been very predictable over the last few months. And now Hunter is superman? Dude, seriously, I'll be looking for you to call Val Venis Superman, the next time he wins a match.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I cant believe skinner is back !!!!!!!!!!! Oh wait its HBK :rolleyes:

    Mr Nice Guy , you have an unhealthy obsession with John Cena. Honestly this time off for him is a blessing in disguise. I really cant stand that Ear Worm entrance music he has. Once i hear it , it replays over and over in my brain .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,767 ✭✭✭Minto


    A win's a win. He's racking 'em up.

    I'd agree if wrestling was a real sport, but news flash, its not (unless you are "It's still real to me, dammit" guy)!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭ShawnRaven


    I really cant stand that Ear Worm entrance music he has. Once i hear it , it replays over and over in my brain .

    I really ****ing hate that poxy entrance music! Especially the intro that keeps descending, it really is the most depressing thing since Eddie Guerrero's death!

    VR!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭Bubs101


    I never understood why they just didn't use his own song (Bad Man) as his intro. It ain't too shabby


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,348 ✭✭✭Double C


    I dont mind his music at all, although I do hope for a return to "so, you think you're untouchable?"


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 411 ✭✭HBK


    You're asking what is wrong with Triple H winning a handicap match against Umaga and the WWE champion? How about, it goes against all logic?

    Or do you think it logical for Triple H to be able to best Orton and Umaga in a
    handicap match in which both Orton and Umaga were in the ring AT THE SAME TIME?

    Love to hear your thoughts on that one.

    But he didnt neccessarily 'best' them now did he?...they got disqualified for being caught as heels.....makes perfect sense to me!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,640 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    ... as a strong babyface should. See Cena, John. (especially during a title reign ;) )

    A strong babyface should not get the better of the WWE champion and Umaga. Even Cena had to sell. Even Hogan sold. Generally speaking a babyface shows vulnerability.

    Triple H has defeated the World Tag Team champions in a handicap match and now the WWE champion and Umaga in a handicap match and the fanboys try and pass this off as completley normal! Pass the sick bag...
    If it was Cena, you'd be cheering! But because it's not one of your boys...

    Wrong. If Cena made Umaga and/or Orton look weak I'd criticise it. In actual fact however, Cena sold huge for Umaga - on his own - and for Orton - on his own - unlike SuperHunter who managed to beat the both of them at the same time! You are so biased towards HHH that whenever something retarded occurs which involves him you refuse to denounce it and instead try to justify it by bringing up others, "what about so and so" etc. Call a spade a spade. (To your credit you did this for the Umaga burial on Raw unlike others who justify EVERYTHING involving SuperHunter) Be consistent though.
    Minto wrote:
    I don't f*cking believe this! You call Cena superman because he has the title a too long and because he has been very predictable over the last few months. And now Hunter is superman? Dude, seriously, I'll be looking for you to call Val Venis Superman, the next time he wins a match.

    Hold on, when did I ever refer to Cena as Superman? What the f*ck? He sells. Hunter does not except under extreme circumstances. Therefore yes he IS Superman. And it's not like I've coined that phrase for him.
    Mr Nice Guy , you have an unhealthy obsession with John Cena.

    Um, how's that exactly? Because I don't follow the crowd and slate the guy?
    Minto wrote:
    I'd agree if wrestling was a real sport, but news flash, its not (unless you are "It's still real to me, dammit" guy)!

    What? Why would you agree if wrestling was a sport? If it was real then you could have no complaints about him racking up wins as he'd be meriting them! The fact it's not makes him racking up all these wins just pathetic!

    Seriously, are you unable to criticise the guy in any capacity?
    HBK wrote:
    But he didnt neccessarily 'best' them now did he?...they got disqualified for being caught as heels.....makes perfect sense to me!

    No they got disqualified because Triple H was about to pedigree Orton and win but Umaga ran in and hit him in the back with a steel chair causing the DQ (yes Umaga resorted to using a chair). So yes he did 'best' them as they couldn't get the job done on SuperHunter!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭Bubs101


    In fairness, Cena lost alot on Raw, just won at every pay-per-view. Also, he was Champion, Hunter isn't. Unless this is building up to an elimination chamber
    Orton-Umanga-Hunter-Kennedy-HBK and Y2J I'm not happy


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,640 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    Bubs101 wrote:
    In fairness, Cena lost alot on Raw, just won at every pay-per-view.

    Bingo. Nail on the head. Hogan was the same too. I wouldn't mind HHH winning on PPVs (WWE title matches being an exception) if he would just actually try and elevate the talent on the shows.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭ShawnRaven


    Wrong. If Cena made Umaga and/or Orton look weak I'd criticise it. In actual fact however, Cena sold huge for Umaga - on his own - and for Orton - on his own - unlike SuperHunter who managed to beat the both of them at the same time! You are so biased towards HHH that whenever something retarded occurs which involves him you refuse to denounce it and instead try to justify it by bringing up others, "what about so and so" etc. Call a spade a spade. (To your credit you did this for the Umaga burial on Raw unlike others who justify EVERYTHING involving SuperHunter) Be consistent though.

    You of all people calling me biased when you sh*t on everything HHH is pure Pot and Kettle syndrome, and you know it. I don't denounce it, i acknowledge it, i just bring up other examples. As you seem to believe that HHH is the only one guilty. I admit that he completely took a lot away from Umaga on RAW. However he didn't do anything MegaCena did a few months earlier.

    In no way am i justifying HHH's actions, but you should practice what you preach when it comes to being consistant. Especially regards MegaCena. Also try to bear in mind that just because you're taking 5 users in one thread doesn't mean you're right. It's merely opinion. :)

    VR!


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]



    Um, how's that exactly? Because I don't follow the crowd and slate the guy?


    No because you follow the Croud and love the guy.

    I used to like Cena when he was heel . But he was just pushed on everybody , he became the Champion when Lesnar left and the only reason he is Champion is because he sells a crap load of Spinner Belts. Personally i dont mind the guy , but the character , Vince Mcmahons creation , i absolutly hate . They have made a mockery of the championship belt. All he has recieved is push after push. He is basically a puppet.

    "You want some , Come get some" Come on how terrible is that.

    "You cant see me" Thats because i have changed the channel

    Then he has the worst Finishing move as in the FU, its a slightly modified F5 that looks less painfull and a hell of alot softer . Reall an over worked body slam.

    The STFU which i actually thought was quite funny, but they have given a submission move to a wrestler who thecnically rubbish.

    When the Rocky move came out, they jumped on that band wagon and gave him a knock out punch and compared him to Rocky .

    Basically shoving him down our throaths.

    Lets face it the only reason he is up there is becase he makes alot of money. In Wrestling thats the name of the game. But i just dont see anything appealing about him. He is a kiddies wrestler. Kids love to cheer him 20+ love to boo him .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,767 ✭✭✭Minto


    Hold on, when did I ever refer to Cena as Superman? What the f*ck? He sells. Hunter does not except under extreme circumstances. Therefore yes he IS Superman. And it's not like I've coined that phrase for him.

    ___________________________________________________________________

    What? Why would you agree if wrestling was a sport? If it was real then you could have no complaints about him racking up wins as he'd be meriting them! The fact it's not makes him racking up all these wins just pathetic!

    Seriously, are you unable to criticise the guy in any capacity?


    Are you saying you've never used the term SuperCena or superman when refering to Cena? I'm not going to go looking through threads, but almost everybody has called him that. If you haven't, then I apologise. Why should Hunter sell to guys who will never make it big? If he did and then he won the WWE title, I'd bet you would be one of the first to say that he lost to too many guys to make a credible champ. It's a vicious circle that will never end!

    ________________________________________________________________

    I can criticise him, I just don't feel the need to, sure he buried some guys, but really who the f*ck cares any more? Your watching RAW, which is the Triple H show, so if you don't like it don't watch it! It's not like he comes to your house every week and forces yu to watch RAW.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,045 ✭✭✭Vince135792003


    So a guy called Shawn Michaels came back on Raw..........in case the point got lost.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭ShawnRaven


    All Hail King Michaels! :d
    Vr!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,376 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    i think a fair point has been brought up in this discussion. Cena has jobbed continuously on Raw throughout late 2006/2007. He even jobbed to kevin freakin federline; so much for SuperCena :D

    great to see Michaels back, please please please Vince, put the gold on this guy as soon as possible. a month title reign in nearly 10 years is disgraceful (and that wasn't even the WWE title)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭Bubs101


    No because you follow the Croud and love the guy.


    Lets face it the only reason he is up there is becase he makes alot of money. In Wrestling thats the name of the game. But i just dont see anything appealing about him. He is a kiddies wrestler. Kids love to cheer him 20+ love to boo him .

    First of all, the crowd on this board are hardly pro-Cena, in-fact, unless your best friends are 8 year-old Americans, chances are you don't like him

    Secondly, he may make a lot of money but if you look at people's matches of the year Cena's name comes up again and again. Cena vs. Micheals, Cena vs. Orton, Cena vs. Umanga etc. He's been great this year and is without dount the second most improved this year (and considering how good Morrison has gotten that's no mean feat). Most people here hate him because he's geared towards kids. That's probably cos he's a nice, charismatic role model. Anytime I've seen him out of charachet (Hogan Know's best, Punk'd) he seems like a nice guy. I seem to remember Hunter on Punk'd...... less said about that the better.

    The fact is the reason he's pushed as an all-american is because he is. Orton crapped in a ladies bag which rules him out, Hunter slept his way to the top, Micheals is too-old and too-christian etc. Just because Cena is the best money making package Vince has doesn't make him a craop wrestler, he's a future hall of famer FFS:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭ShawnRaven


    Bubs101 wrote:
    he's a future hall of famer FFS

    Yeah! He shares that with Pete Rose! LOL :D
    VR!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,640 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    You of all people calling me biased when you sh*t on everything HHH is pure Pot and Kettle syndrome, and you know it. I don't denounce it, i acknowledge it, i just bring up other examples. As you seem to believe that HHH is the only one guilty. I admit that he completely took a lot away from Umaga on RAW. However he didn't do anything MegaCena did a few months earlier.

    First off I don't sh*t on everything HHH as I have, for example, given him praise for his main event match. You have referred to Cena as a "talentless hack" in the past so if you're hellbent on venting fury at biased individuals, start with yourself like a good lad. ;) Every time I bring up a valid point you focus on me personally ("MNG's biased blah, blah, blah") because YOU haven't got a decent defense for SuperHunter and in reality are "biased as f*ck" to quote your good self! You know it and I know it. There's no Pot, Kettle Black at all as I have knocked incidents involving Cena plenty of times, most recently the Unforgiven match and the bullsh*t DQ ending. This is what I wrote at the time actually...
    The ending to the Cena-Orton match was ridiculous. They used a PPV match to set up another PPV match? That is disgraceful.

    Now if I say something like that about HHH apparently I'm "biased". Not so. I'm not biased, I just want to see entertaining television.
    In no way am i justifying HHH's actions, but you should practice what you preach when it comes to being consistant. Especially regards MegaCena. Also try to bear in mind that just because you're taking 5 users in one thread doesn't mean you're right. It's merely opinion. :)

    First off you ARE justifying HHH's actions as a simple read of this thread will show. Secondly I do practice what I preach regarding Cena. Thirdly, John Cena followed orders and sold when asked whereas Triple H is actively involved in the direction of his character and rarely if ever sells.
    No because you follow the Croud and love the guy.

    If I wanted to follow the crowd I'd boo the guy like the people booed him on the last Raw and become one of the countless internet hordes who leave comments on my videos like "Cena sux rofl. He's got 5 moves lmao". Unlike them I can actually appreciate and see the effort he puts in and the strides forward he has made in the past year and thus I will give him credit for that and won't simply go along with the crowd. The "Cena sucks" stuff is very last year as far as I'm concerned.
    Minto wrote:
    Are you saying you've never used the term SuperCena or superman when refering to Cena? I'm not going to go looking through threads, but almost everybody has called him that. If you haven't, then I apologise.

    I've not referred to Cena in those terms, no.
    Minto wrote:
    Why should Hunter sell to guys who will never make it big? If he did and then he won the WWE title, I'd bet you would be one of the first to say that he lost to too many guys to make a credible champ. It's a vicious circle that will never end!

    How do you know these guys will "never make it big"? If that's the mentality why are they even employed to begin with? You have to try and put over talent. And I don't think Triple H could ever be accused of lacking credibility due to what he has accomplished. Look at Undertaker. He put over Heydenreich and it's fair to say he never made it big but it didn't damage Taker did it? At least he had the class to go do it.
    Minto wrote:
    I can criticise him, I just don't feel the need to, sure he buried some guys, but really who the f*ck cares any more? Your watching RAW, which is the Triple H show, so if you don't like it don't watch it! It's not like he comes to your house every week and forces yu to watch RAW.

    You know what, this is the most honest post I've seen given by those who disagree with my views on HHH so I actually have a lot of respect for you saying that.

    You acknowledged he has buried guys and you've acknowledged Raw has become the Triple H show. Guess what, we're in agreement! I just wanted that clarified is all. Kudos to you for doing so. You obviously enjoy that Raw is the way it is but I hope you understand that I don't watch Raw for "the Triple H show" and that I'm entitled to be upset at the things that have gone on lately.

    I credit you however for not simply trying to defend the indefensible and for basically saying, 'yes it goes on but I like it'. Shame others can't be so honest and will go to great lengths to prolong an argument! :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,478 ✭✭✭Bubs101


    The podcasts have gone to VR's head but Minto is still keeping it real.

    I'd also like to know how long Hunter will be playing The Undertaker and Burying people on Raw. He's not in the title for the next PPV and he's running out of people to destroy.
    Also, this new Hunter isn't like the old one at all. He's more like Snitsky, ridiculous squash after ridiculous squash. Couldn't see Shelton beating him now, let alone twice


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭ShawnRaven


    First off I don't sh*t on everything HHH as I have, for example, given him praise for his main event match. You have referred to Cena as a "talentless hack" in the past so if you're hellbent on venting fury at biased individuals, start with yourself like a good lad. ;) Every time I bring up a valid point you focus on me personally ("MNG's biased blah, blah, blah") because YOU haven't got a decent defense for SuperHunter and in reality are "biased as f*ck" to quote your good self! You know it and I know it. There's no Pot, Kettle Black at all as I have knocked incidents involving Cena plenty of times, most recently the Unforgiven match and the bullsh*t DQ ending. This is what I wrote at the time actually...

    I referred to him as that Once! And boy have you done all you can to make sure i don't forget it! I don't have a defense for HHH because i don't condone burial after burial, but half of these so called burials don't even count as half of them weren't even in a match! This one has been done to death though. As for your Cena quite, thats fair enough, unlike you, i won't trawl through past posts. Now that you have proven that you have blasted your boy Cena, will credit you for being consistant (now that wasn't so hard now, was it?)

    I focus on you personally because you're the first to cry about HHH since his return. It's fact. As for me being biased, i'm not really. And you already pointed that out when i said i couldn't justify HHH and his actions with Umaga. What i will not do however, is listen to someone bitch about sh*t HHH is doing, and either condone or ignore what someone else (ie Kennedy, Hogan, Cena) has done/is doing. Just for the sake of having a go at HHH.

    And that's it.
    VR!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭ShawnRaven


    Bubs101 wrote:
    The podcasts have gone to VR's head but Minto is still keeping it real.

    What the?... i was an opinionated sh*t before i started the podcasts. So f*ck you! :)

    VR!
    (now you can be justified in your statement, whereas before it was blatantly false)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,640 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    I referred to him as that Once! And boy have you done all you can to make sure i don't forget it! I don't have a defense for HHH because i don't condone burial after burial, but half of these so called burials don't even count as half of them weren't even in a match! This one has been done to death though. As for your Cena quite, thats fair enough, unlike you, i won't trawl through past posts. Now that you have proven that you have blasted your boy Cena, will credit you for being consistant (now that wasn't so hard now, was it?)

    Well I have said all along that I am consistent. You were the one who alleged I wasn't and that I was biased and out to get Triple H. I'm not. I'm just looking for entertaining TV. Thanks for acknowledging that though.

    I have simply highlighted HHH's burial of talent and asked for acknowledgement of that from others on the forum. For whatever reason you decided to not acknowledge it and instead spouted off a load of crap about me being biased and so on. To be honest it's out of order. Take the points on their individual merits.
    I focus on you personally because you're the first to cry about HHH since his return. It's fact. As for me being biased, i'm not really. And you already pointed that out when i said i couldn't justify HHH and his actions with Umaga.

    Could you maybe try NOT focusing on me personally? I think I'm entitled to raise HHH's squashing of Raw talent and not have people complain about me expressing a view contrary to their own. This is an opinion forum after all and I do give valid reasoning for my views. ;)
    What i will not do however, is listen to someone bitch about sh*t HHH is doing, and either condone or ignore what someone else (ie Kennedy, Hogan, Cena) has done/is doing. Just for the sake of having a go at HHH.

    Who's ignoring other stuff? You were the one who introduced these people into the debate. As I have shown above I have criticised Cena when it's been warranted and I have doen the same for Hogan and Kennedy plenty of times. What relevance have they to this debate though? You should perhaps reflect on why you wanted to introduce these names into the discussion in the first place rather than focus on the guy at hand - TRIPLE H.

    The whole thing is a classic example of a red herring...
    Description of Red Herring
    A Red Herring is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue. The basic idea is to "win" an argument by leading attention away from the argument and to another topic. This sort of "reasoning" has the following form:


    Topic A is under discussion.
    Topic B is introduced under the guise of being relevant to topic A (when topic B is actually not relevant to topic A).
    Topic A is abandoned.
    This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because merely changing the topic of discussion hardly counts as an argument against a claim

    http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/red-herring.html

    Triple H has buried talent. Now you're either like Minto and you are fine with that (which seems to be the case) or you're like me and people like Bubs who find the whole thing tiresome.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    For the love of Hall, Mr.Nice Guy. HHH got beat down. He got back up and then fell down again.

    Had he come out for the Orton segment, then you would have something to whine about, but he didn't. HBK did. Now there is something to celebrate.

    I wonder what this forum would be like if it was the 80's.

    OMG Hogan wins again. I'm never watching wrestling again. This sucks.

    Or the 90's. Here we go again with another Bret Hart win.

    This is what happens with wrestling. get over your hatred of HHH. Just picture the time that the Warrior beat the crap out of him at wrestlemania and go to your happy place./


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Lads the only way we can all settle this is an Elimination chamber match between us all .

    I really have to admire the rivalry on this message board though, its alot more compelling then what WWE is offering.


    Music Hits ........ Da DA Da Di DA Da DA


    Oh my god its Bombidol , he has returned !!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,640 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    Terry wrote:
    For the love of Hall, Mr.Nice Guy. HHH got beat down. He got back up and then fell down again.

    Had he come out for the Orton segment, then you would have something to whine about, but he didn't. HBK did. Now there is something to celebrate.

    I wonder what this forum would be like if it was the 80's.

    OMG Hogan wins again. I'm never watching wrestling again. This sucks.

    Or the 90's. Here we go again with another Bret Hart win.

    This is what happens with wrestling. get over your hatred of HHH. Just picture the time that the Warrior beat the crap out of him at wrestlemania and go to your happy place./

    Wow you're right Terry. There was me thinking I was entitled to my opinion and that I was more than justified in complaining about Raw turning into the Triple H show yet I see now that I should just accept that "this is what happens with wrestling".

    Thank you for showing me the error of my ways! Down with opinions. Conformity rules!


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Wow you're right Terry. There was me thinking I was entitled to my opinion and that I was more than justified in complaining about Raw turning into the Triple H show yet I see now that I should just accept that "this is what happens with wrestling".

    Thank you for showing me the error of my ways! Down with opinions. Conformity rules!


    Its the beauty of wrestling now a days .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,602 ✭✭✭✭ShawnRaven


    I have simply highlighted HHH's burial of talent and asked for acknowledgement of that from others on the forum. For whatever reason you decided to not acknowledge it and instead spouted off a load of crap about me being biased and so on. To be honest it's out of order. Take the points on their individual merits.

    Wrong. I put one in the stomach for HHHaters everywhere saying they all weren't happy. I have said you were biased on other occasions, you've since proved you were consistant. I just don't have the time and energy to go through months and months of posts.
    Could you maybe try NOT focusing on me personally? I think I'm entitled to raise HHH's squashing of Raw talent and not have people complain about me expressing a view contrary to their own. This is an opinion forum after all and I do give valid reasoning for my views. ;)

    To an extent yes, but i'll make an effort if you make an effort on quitting trying to be condescending and patronising with some of your remarks. It is an opinion forum. But for some reason you give across the impression, and not just to me, that just because you have an answer for everything, makes you correct. It doesn't. I've no problem agreeing to disagree. And you've proved on occasion that neither do you.
    Who's ignoring other stuff? You were the one who introduced these people into the debate. As I have shown above I have criticised Cena when it's been warranted and I have doen the same for Hogan and Kennedy plenty of times. What relevance have they to this debate though? You should perhaps reflect on why you wanted to introduce these names into the discussion in the first place rather than focus on the guy at hand - TRIPLE H.

    As i already said, a lot of the people who bitch about Triple H, ignore the fact that he's not the only one, and point it out for the sake of HHHating.

    Triple H has buried talent. Now you're either like Minto and you are fine with that (which seems to be the case) or you're like me and people like Bubs who find the whole thing tiresome.

    Agreed, as i felt the same way about Hogan in the early 90s. But i'll find it tiresome if it keeps happening with HHH. It just takes more than two weeks for me, that's all.

    VR!


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