<1 hour workouts only???

padsc

What do you make of this from the 'fitness expert' in the Irish Independent:

http://www.independent.ie/health/diet-fitness/dedications-what-you-need-1117419.html

One part of the article says:
The workout length should never exceed an hour. If you are in a gym longer, you are not training hard, you are making friends. Length of time is important as you produce testosterone that builds muscle for the first 20 minutes, and you maintain it for circa 45 minutes.

After this, you produce cortisol, which is the grinch of body-building as it eats muscle.

The weight training programme I was given by my instructor lasts about 90 minutes, followed by 20 minutes cardio.

PeakOutput

it depends on your goals

if i remember correctly(and im sure he will be along) colm(crossfit guy) has said numerous times that there is no need for your session to be longer than 40mins as long as its an intense 40mins

iascanmore

I'm fairly sure the general thinking round here would be that he's right. 90 mins and then 20 mins - sounds like a lot to me. My weights sessions (3 a week) are about 40-60 mins maximum. I lift heavy and fast (for me) , 6 or 8 exercises only, full body compound workouts. I'm in no state to do cardio or anything else for that matter afterwards. Then again I workout at night, work 40+ hours a week and have 2 snappers under 4 years of age!!

Imposter

I'd be pretty sure that people around here would listen to him if he gives advice!

Dragan

I know Damien, he's a good lad and a good trainer.

Linoge

iascanmore wrote:

My weights sessions (3 a week) are about 40-60 mins maximum. I lift heavy and fast (for me) , 6 or 8 exercises only, full body compound workouts. I'm in no state to do cardio or anything else for that matter afterwards.

Same as that. Even stretching is a struggle when I finish:eek:

Hanley

padsc wrote:

What do you make of this from the 'fitness expert' in the Irish Independent:

http://www.independent.ie/health/diet-fitness/dedications-what-you-need-1117419.html

One part of the article says:
The workout length should never exceed an hour. If you are in a gym longer, you are not training hard, you are making friends. Length of time is important as you produce testosterone that builds muscle for the first 20 minutes, and you maintain it for circa 45 minutes.

After this, you produce cortisol, which is the grinch of body-building as it eats muscle.

The weight training programme I was given by my instructor lasts about 90 minutes, followed by 20 minutes cardio.

It's fcuking bullsh!t imo.

I know he's a top quality trainer and has gotten great results with his clients, but to say something so wrong is just out of line. I know there's a specific target audience in mind when he says it tho.

To say you're not training hard if you're in the gym for more than 45 mins is highly fcuking insulting considering what I and some of the guys I train with put ourselves true.

And some how we've even managed to build a good build of muscle that way.

cowzerp

Cortisol is a nightmare to muscle-excessive training produces it and can make workouts actually detrimental-carbs increase insulin which blocks the cortisol so if you plan on training for long periods use energy drinks such as lucozade etc..i think 1 hour should be sufficent for most people anyway.

newby.204

granted im not in the gym to build muscle however my workout is

push-ups 40
sit-ups 50
back ext 50
pull-ups 10
lying hand claps 25

thats done 3x

15 min ex bike
above set
18 min rower(diff 9)
above set

warm down

that takes bout 1hr 15min, as well as that im increasing the reps and length of cardio every two weeks so the session is getting longer!!

cowzerp

Thats not going to be a problem to be honest,, just eat right and your fine..

newby.204

cool because i hate wasting my training time and makin no gains

Colm_OReilly

I'd agree that you don't need long training sessions, but the article is very much pop fitness, and lacks any depth to explain his points. Intensity is the key to training goals, and most people cannot sustain a decent training intensity that long.

newby,
The rower doesn't have difficulty settings, it has drag settings. Think of it like gears on a bike. Some people prefer a heavy gear and low stroke rate, whereas others prefer lighter gears and higher stroke rate

When I was rowing, we were told to keep our drag factor around 120-135 (lower if you're lighter, -75Kgs). If you're on a Concept2, it's part of the additional settings. We were told this because it was the closest to what you'd get in the boat.

Personally, I row best at 140.

Hanley, what were you doing during the long workouts? Were these 1RM type workouts, where you needed a lot of rest between sets or what? I'm not attacking, I ask because I respect your input.

Colm

tribulus

^^ Sheiko, lots of volume and frequency, loads up to 85%. 20 sets of benching and multiple rounds of the competition lifts are fairly standard.

hardtrainer

Well, what he says is true to an extent, but we humans are not clones and the body doesn't conspire against us, watching some internal clock and then ramping up the cortisol to eat away at at gains you've made.

Everyone is different. The guidelines are just that, guidelines, and the exact timing of an increase in cortisol is dependant on many things. If you're in calorie deficit, then you're going to get an increase in cortisol faster.

The really big guys don't do 50 min workouts, thats for sure. They're also not plodding through their workouts, chatting away and not pushing things to the absolute max.

For your average guy, a 60 min workout is plenty of time and will give him the best results, but when you get past that stage and move on to more advanced levels, 60 mins just isn't enough time to get everything done.

Michael Collins

iascanmore wrote:

I'm fairly sure the general thinking round here would be that he's right. 90 mins and then 20 mins - sounds like a lot to me. My weights sessions (3 a week) are about 40-60 mins maximum. I lift heavy and fast (for me) , 6 or 8 exercises only, full body compound workouts. I'm in no state to do cardio or anything else for that matter afterwards. Then again I workout at night, work 40+ hours a week and have 2 snappers under 4 years of age!!

You sir, are an inpiration to us all!

Hanley

Colm_OReilly wrote:

Hanley, what were you doing during the long workouts? Were these 1RM type workouts, where you needed a lot of rest between sets or what? I'm not attacking, I ask because I respect your input.

Colm

Colm, as Trib said, my last training block was centerd around the competition lifts with lots of work in the 80-85% range, 5x3's and that sort of stuff with minimal accessory lifts.

One of the main ideas of the system is that you become more neurologically efficent because you're performing the movement over and over again.

Rest periods are typically 1-2 minutes on most days. The only exception is my first round of squats on Sunday mornings. Because the load is relatively higher, 5-7 minutes is more the norm there.

For example, during week 3 I did 21 sets of benching in one workout, and that was between 2 rounds of 10 set deadlifting.

So while it's not a program that approaches max weights very often, it is very demanding because of the sheer volume, and that is where the adapatation occurs.

Black Swan

An hour a day works for me, but we must acknowledge that everyone is different, and that guidelines derived from physiological studies address a statistical average (with a range of individual differences about that average).

davyjose

Hanley wrote:

To say you're not training hard if you're in the gym for more than 45 mins is highly fcuking insulting considering what I and some of the guys I train with put ourselves true.

To be fair, he's probably right for a good percentage of the poulation - i.e the part of the population that take their training advice from articles in a magazine/newspaper. Most people probably won't see the benefit of 2 hour work-outs, because most people don't live for it. For people like yourself, who would fit into the highest percentile of lifters etc, you would obviously train at an intensity that would break the "rules" suggested here.
And you can say that about anything - there will always be a mass population, and there will always be the elite. I wouldn't be too insulted by it.

padsc

My goals are to bulk up and lose the small belly I have. So do you reckon I'd be better off just doing about 60 minutes high intensity weights and ditching the cardio at the end if I don't want to lose muscle?

Lothaar

iascanmore wrote:

I'm fairly sure the general thinking round here would be that he's right. 90 mins and then 20 mins - sounds like a lot to me. My weights sessions (3 a week) are about 40-60 mins maximum. I lift heavy and fast (for me) , 6 or 8 exercises only, full body compound workouts. I'm in no state to do cardio or anything else for that matter afterwards. Then again I workout at night, work 40+ hours a week and have 2 snappers under 4 years of age!!

I'd be very interested in hearing more details on your regime. I'm in a similar situation - a family and longish working hours that are beefed up with a nasty commute.

I workout during my lunchbreak, giving me 45 mins in total (including warmups). I'm always trying to find ways of compacting my workouts without losing efficiency. How do you do it? Would you mind giving more info? Perhaps this is worthy of a new thread dedicated to the subject...

Also, how do you find the time/energy to fit in a workout at night? I usually get home, have dinner, get my daughter ready for bed, say goodnight, and then I've got about 2 hours before my own bedtime. I'm not into spending half of my spare time working out, and the missus certainly wouldn't like it. Apart from that, I'm usually beat at that stage and just want to laze around.

Colm_OReilly

Lothar,

When I first started Crossfit, I was working out during my lunch hour. Most of their workouts are 20-30 mins in duration (some even shorter if you're in better shape). Might be worth checking out.

padsc,

You'd prob be better off. Post your current workout and we can advise you futher.

iascanmore

Lothaar wrote:

I'd be very interested in hearing more details on your regime. I'm in a similar situation - a family and longish working hours that are beefed up with a nasty commute.

I workout during my lunchbreak, giving me 45 mins in total (including warmups). I'm always trying to find ways of compacting my workouts without losing efficiency. How do you do it? Would you mind giving more info? Perhaps this is worthy of a new thread dedicated to the subject...

Also, how do you find the time/energy to fit in a workout at night? I usually get home, have dinner, get my daughter ready for bed, say goodnight, and then I've got about 2 hours before my own bedtime. I'm not into spending half of my spare time working out, and the missus certainly wouldn't like it. Apart from that, I'm usually beat at that stage and just want to laze around.

Mods - split into new thread if needs be.

Lothaar, theres no great secret to my regime, I do my weights at home, 3 nights a week. I will do either 6 or 8 exercises eg Sunday night I did Back Squats + situps, Lunges + DB Military Press, One legged deadlift + incline bench. I did these in pairs 6*4 at my 8RM, timed 60secs between pairs.
(I'm a big fan of Chad Waterburys stuff on t-nation and I just butcher plans from his various ones). Tonight I'll do 8 exercises 12*3 at 14RM again they will be generally compound movements. I do cardio on 3 non weight days either HIIT skipping at home or 45-60 mins in the gym - mostly straight after work.

Been thinking about how I squeeze in so much (I do a lot more stuff than workout/keep fit) and I think the key things are, - I walk to and from work 45 mins each way. It wakes me up in the morning and allows me to wind down in the evenings. When I get home I'm fresh as a daisy. Like yourself its hectic at home at this time but we have things pinned down fairly well. Kids are ALWAYS in bed for 8pm sharp. I mean always - they get enough of our time!

With an hours workout + shower, I've still time to sit down, read a book etc, I don't watch TV. I don't think of working out as a chore or something to take my free time away, I really look fwd to it. Should for some reason I miss a session I'll get up especially early the next day and squeeze in a half a weights session or 30 mins skipping before work.

I should add I eat very well and very clean 95% of the time, 6 or 7 small meals a day, drink plenty of water - I think this in itself helps energy levels.

Finally I was a fairly inactive as a youngster (now 35), I didn't play sport or do a whole lot right through my 20s either. So I like to think I've a reserve of "oommph" than I never used.

Hope this is of some use...

padsc

Here's my workout schedule:

5 minutes warm-up

Day 1 - Chest, Triceps & Abs
Bench press (bar bell) 3 X 6-10 reps
Incline press (dumb bells) 3 X 6-10 reps
Flat bench fly (dumb bells) 3 X 8-12 reps
Dips on machine 3 X 6-10 reps
One arm OH tricep ext. (dumb bells) 3 X 16-24 reps
Ab crunches 3 X 15-20 reps
Side bends (with dumb bell) 3 X 24-30 reps
Leg lifts 3 X 15-20 reps


Day 2 - Back, biceps & Abs
Chin-up wide grip front 3 X 6-10 reps
Bent over bar bell rows (bar bell) 3 X 6-10 reps
Wide grip pulldown 3 X 8-12 reps
Straight bar bicep curls (bar bell) 3 X 6-10 reps
Alternating curls (dumb bells) 3 X 16-24 reps
Ab crunches 3 X 15-20 reps
Side bends (with dumb bell) 3 X 24-30 reps
Leg lifts 3 X 15-20 reps


Day 3 - Shoulders & Legs
Military press (dumb bells) 3 X 6-10 reps
Alternating front deltoid raise (dumb bells) 3 X 16-24 reps
Lateral raise (dumb bells) 3 X 6-10 reps
Reverse flys (dumb bells) 3 X 8-12 reps
Upright row medium grip (bar bell) 3 X 16-24 reps
Standing squat (bar bell or Smith machine) 3 X 8-12 reps
Leg curl (machine) 3 X 8-12 reps
Side leg calf raise (with dumb bell) 3 X 16-24 reps

20 minutes cardio on treadmill.

Rest for 1-2 minutes between sets and 2-3 minutes between exercises.

As I said I'm looking to bulk up (upper body mainly) and lose my small belly.

Cheers

Colm_OReilly

I’d get rid of all the following exercises
Flat bench flys
Tricep extensions
Side bends
Bicep Curls
Front deltoid raises
Reverse flys
Leg curl machine
Side leg calf raise

Most of these focus on too small an area to produce any sort of hormonal response necessary for hypertrophy. If you increase the sets to 5 you’d get a better workout, particularly if you left out the silly small lifts and machine based exercises.

There’s a correlation (not necessarily causation) between a rest of 45 seconds and hypertrophy (growth). Of course, if you were working for strength – which will also deliver the hypertrophy – a longer rest period is usually needed.

What’s a standing squat? Do you mean a back squat (insert link)? Stay the hell away from the Smith Machine – it’s impossible to squat correctly on one.

I’d add in more squatting and deadlifting. If you want to develop your core do Overhead Squats – You’ll find these very challenging at first as they highlight any deficiencies in your squat technique. And the importance of dead lifting cannot be overstated.

While we’re at it, the threadmill isn’t a great tool either, as it eliminates the work phase of running. You’d be better off on the rower, skipping, bike or even the Cross Trainer.

Hope this helps, if you need any more advice let me know,
Colm

Degsy

Intensity is the key to results,not time spent in the gym.There are plenty of fools who go the the gym for two hours and spend thier time walking around,looking at themselves in mirrors,resting for ten minutes between sets and filling and refilling water bottles.You can knock the hell out of yourself in 40 minutes no problem,you just need to throw yourself into it and not ponce around.

padsc

Great, thanks for the advice Colm.

So it'd be better to do 5 sets on lower weights than I'm currently using than the 3 sets? I don't think I'd be able to squeeze out another 2 sets on most of the exercises using my current weight settings.

Colm_OReilly

Intensity in terms of weight training is a % of 1RM, and you want to keep that high as sustainable possible.

If you were doing a three day split you'd only be doing 2, maybe 3 exercises each day. So squats, bench and maybe some dips. (just typing on the fly here)

Here's a great link to a program you could follow.

padsc

Grand, thanks again Colm. I'll put that into practice starting today.