old bands - you've made your money now go away

klaus flouride

I think its a shame young promising bands don't get a chance cos the gig circuit and airwaves are being clogged up by oldie reformations.
I love led zep, but why does anyone give a f|_|ck about them doing a gig? They're old and well past they're sell by date - They're never going to sound as good as they did back in the seventies. The same goes for other reforms. eg. The Who, The Kinks.
The best gigs are done by young(ish) bands who have nothing to lose but everything to prove. They need to give a good gig so that its likely you will go see them again. Led zep don't need to do that, jimmy page could give a harmonica concerto in timbuktu and it would sell out - I think the only reason some of these reforms. are successful is cos so all these losers can go
around saying ''yeah i saw led zep''.
Brian Wilson of the Beach boys- prime example - a fantastic musician in his day, but he can barely sing anymore (let alone stand up properly) and yet he's still selling out gigs everywhere, whats going on?

Dozyart

My personal opinion is your talking out your a**e!!!!whether its a 60 year old band in a stadium or a bunch of 17 yr olds in a crap pub people will go to see them if they like them and are good!!!The likes of Led Zep and The Who etc show just as much appetite for performing when they reform as new bands do and ive never heard of these reformed bands getting a bad review or said to be going through the motions just cuz they have done it all before in the 70's!!

Green Giant

IMHO I'm fed up of old bands reforming

klaus flouride

Dozyart wrote:

My personal opinion is your talking out your a**e!!!!whether its a 60 year old band in a stadium or a bunch of 17 yr olds in a crap pub people will go to see them if they like them and are good!!!The likes of Led Zep and The Who etc show just as much appetite for performing when they reform as new bands do and ive never heard of these reformed bands getting a bad review or said to be going through the motions just cuz they have done it all before in the 70's!!

They don't get bad reviews cos the music journos reviewing them want to get an interview in with the band, they're not going to get one if they give a bad review. Most music journos are going to be biased cos its quite likely they like the band in the first place - hence the reason they chose to review the the concert.
"Show just as much appetite"- how do you know? did you see them when they first came out so that you can make a proper comparison? - i doubt it.

Mr Alan

i dont think your point is that valid to be honest...take the police for example, they are playing in Croke Park on saturday-its not as if they are taking up space on the gig circuit that another band would be playing the venue if they weren't, they are THE POLICE, they are playing an 80,000 capacity venue,realistically no young up and coming band/out to prove something will be affected by their gig being on.

If ya dont like the idea of bands reforming, dont go to see them, but dont give them stick for doing it, fair ****s i say

klaus flouride

Croke Park may not be a venue where young bands can make a mark, but who headlined Glastonbury this year? It was the who, they don't need to be playing festivals.

Record companies got lazy and couldn't be bothered looking for new music, so they started to re-release everything under the sun, its not bad music- but it is old. The fact remains that it isn't entirely fair that old reformed bands can go on stage and give a sub-standard performance, which will be called brilliant by all their die-hard fans (fans who are to old to remember what a good gig is). Whilst at the same time young hard-working bands don't get a look in. Headbanging and zimmerframes don't mix.

Blackhorse Slim

If there were any good bands around who could compare with Led Zep, The Police or the Who in their prime nobody would be interested in reunions.

klaus flouride

Blackhorse Slim wrote:

If there were any good bands around who could compare with Led Zep, The Police or the Who in their prime nobody would be interested in reunions.

But even if there were bands around who were as good as this they wouldn't be acknowledged cos they would be overshadowed by crappy reunions. Isn't music meant to evolve?

ShawnRaven

klaus flouride wrote:

Croke Park may not be a venue where young bands can make a mark, but who headlined Glastonbury this year? It was the who, they don't need to be playing festivals.

Record companies got lazy and couldn't be bothered looking for new music, so they started to re-release everything under the sun, its not bad music- but it is old. The fact remains that it isn't entirely fair that old reformed bands can go on stage and give a sub-standard performance, which will be called brilliant by all their die-hard fans (fans who are to old to remember what a good gig is). Whilst at the same time young hard-working bands don't get a look in. Headbanging and zimmerframes don't mix.

Mainly because a lot of the "hard working young bands" that you probably have in mind don't have an original idea to rub together. Examples that spring to mind for me being Franz Ferdinand and Editors, who quite frankly strike me as blatant Joy Division ripoffs. I do see your point, but new music seems to be a thing of the past as everything has been done to death by this point.

And yeah, classic bands shouldn't reform, hand the stages over to the next X-Factor winner. Sounds like a good plan to me!

VR!

ShawnRaven

klaus flouride wrote:

Isn't music meant to evolve?

I ask myself that same question when either some classic is badly covered or is sampled with some idiot rapping all over it!

VR!

Rigsby

All these famous bands were unknowns at one time and worked their way up the "ladder of fame". If there is an audience (zimmerframers or headbangers !!) for them reforming, then why not ? Personally I wont be going to any of the gigs, but what's wrong with having the choice ?

When was the music industry ever fair

mike65

When Rock and Roll was invented and groups formed it was generaly assumed that a RnR would last about 2-3 years and any musicians still standing would have to get a proper job. That mentality pursisted until someone realised that artists were not ALL dying and that fans were not 'growing' out of the music.

We are where we are cos the public like those acts that formed in a previous era. That said I could happily do without the Spice Girls return.

There is a serious discussion to be had about the way the industry preferes to milk established names rather than spend money breaking new talent (a mentailty which will bite them in the ass at some point proberly).

Mike.

big b

What a load of mince.

I suspect Klaus has a particular axe to grind. Is he in a band that's getting nowhere? Are his mates? Or is his latest favourite band not getting the recognition he feels they deserve?

Cream always rises to the top.
As said above, all the veteran bands touring now had to slog through against the bigger names of the day.
Almost a million people in Europe went to see Genesis this summer. A similar number will see the Police. The Who headline Glastonbury cos the promoter knows people want to see them.

If new bands can't make a dent in the radio playlists because of veteran bands, that says a lot more about the quality of the new bands.

Most mature people like music because it's good, not just because it's new.

They were all new bands at some point. If they're good enough, they'll make it. Why should the audience be censored from listening to alternatives?

Rigsby

big b wrote:

Cream always rises to the top.

Yeah ! and they also reformed recently and did a few gigs

ShawnRaven

big b wrote:

Cream always rises to the top.
As said above, all the veteran bands touring now had to slog through against the bigger names of the day.
Almost a million people in Europe went to see Genesis this summer. A similar number will see the Police. The Who headline Glastonbury cos the promoter knows people want to see them.

Bear in mind that the Police broke up in 1986 (with the guts of 18 months of inactivity before that). Now think about how many people who were only kids that year (like myself) or who weren't even born but went through their parents collection, put on their stuff and got into them.

The whole "born too late" syndrome hits a lot of people when it comes to veteran artists. I for one have been looking forward to the Police reunion for over two decades and can't wait for the concert tomorrow. How they'll sound is a matter of opinion. I heard the gig from MSG in August this year and i personally thought it sounded great (and they considered that to be one of their worst gigs on the tour!).

So the likes of Cream, The Police, Zeppelin, etc will get bigger venues just based on that alone. You can also throw Genesis into that list (especially if they get Gabriel back on vocals). I'm sure Klaus won't be too happy about it, but i'm damned if i give a crap!

VR!

lordgoat

big b wrote:

Cream always rises to the top.

Yeah well i say, **** floats. (JC)

Driver 8

Bruce Springsteen or Snow Patrol? Put it that way

ShawnRaven

Driver 8 wrote:

Bruce Springsteen or Snow Patrol? Put it that way

Springsteen in a heartbeat. If i wan't music to slash my wrists to, i'll go and see My Chemical Romance :P

VR!

Nailz

validreasoning! wrote:

My Chemical Romance :P

VR!

:eek: Puke! PUKE!!! I think if the young bands were good enough they'd pass them out! But they're not, so get over it! :rolleyes: Look at it this way...
The Killers or Bruce Springsteen?
Franz Ferdinand or Happy Mondays?
The Frames or Van Halen (w/ Roth)?
The Editors or The Who?
Pete Doherty (arsehole) or Led Zeppelin?
Orson or Brian Wilson (the Beach Boys)?

I presume most of the answers would be the old ones...

Driver 8

Another thing about new bands is how they're not so much imitators as photocopies of their "inspirations"

Interpol/Editors= Joy Division
Killers second album= Born to Run
Justin Timberlake's current album= 80's Prince
Johnny Borrell-Bob Geldof
James Blunt= Satan (loved his early stuff...Satan, not Blunt)
Coldplay/Snow Patrol/Keane-Bends era Radiohead/ U2

Nailz

Yeah I'm a fan of Joy Division, but I don't like the Editors at all! And I don't know who Interpol are...

klaus flouride

I suspect Klaus has a particular axe to grind. Is he in a band that's getting nowhere?-quote

I think about half the people that visit this site are in bands that are going nowhere, but thats not the point.
Alot of people seem to be saying ''isn't it good that you have a choice to go and see these bands?'' - but you aren't able to go and see these bands, what you get is a reformed band in their old age playing sub-standard versions of their own work. Why would anyone be excited about that?

Lets call a spade a spade here- Led Zep will not sound the way they did back in the 70s, Bruce Springsteen doesn't have the voice he once had and the fact that there has been so much interest in these reformations has meant that radio guys and record companies have gone around looking for 70s rock clones rather than searching out good new music.

nij

Klaus I take it you've seen an old band perform live and were disappointed.

I've seen quite a few "70's" or "80's" bands perform their classic songs live, and I thoroughly enjoyed it.

Simply put, most music that's around today just doesn't cut it. Firstly, you have to look very long and hard to find a musician nowadays who can actually play his or her instrument properly. Secondly, as somebody said, everything has been done before, and done very well. What should music 'evolve' into next? Morse code? Who says there must be a constant change? Quality is quality.

I'd still choose seeing a good, classic band live over ANY of the sh1te that's around at the moment.

Nailz

klaus flouride wrote:

I suspect Klaus has a particular axe to grind. Is he in a band that's getting nowhere?-quote

I think about half the people that visit this site are in bands that are going nowhere, but thats not the point.
Alot of people seem to be saying ''isn't it good that you have a choice to go and see these bands?'' - but you aren't able to go and see these bands, what you get is a reformed band in their old age playing sub-standard versions of their own work. Why would anyone be excited about that?

Probably because the sub-standard version of their songs are better then the best version of the young bands' songs. My point here is that young bands nowadays are shíte!

klaus flouride

''Everything has been done to death''- thats what everyone said before punk happened and even before grunge started, theres always room for innovation.
Trying to resurrect bands from 30 years ago isn't going to make music better. Theres a fashion trend at the moment to pretend its the 70s and 80s again - thats the reason so many of these bands are reforming; regardless of whether or not they were any good.

lordgoat

The fact that you think all bands have reformed for the same reason is your first mistake. Personally i was delighted to hear Kerbdog and Whipping boy play last year, gigs of the year in my opinion. I seriously doubt that these two bands made buckets loads of cash from this or i doubt they made any new fans either. So what was their motivation for doing it???

Granted some may not sound as good now as they did then but you say bruce srpingsteen doesn't sound as good now. To me that's wrong, he sounds as good now as he always has. I think some of the older tracks sound better than they originally did.

ShawnRaven

Same for The Police and Genesis! They sound damn good after their recent hiatuses Klaus. Youtube search their recent stuff before coming out with sweeping statements like the ones you've come out with. Because right now you just sound like you have an axe to grind because your fave band isn't getting the recognition you think they deserve.

VR!

klaus flouride

lordgoat wrote:

The fact that you think all bands have reformed for the same reason is your first mistake. Personally i was delighted to hear Kerbdog and Whipping boy play last year, gigs of the year in my opinion. I seriously doubt that these two bands made buckets loads of cash from this or i doubt they made any new fans either. So what was their motivation for doing it???

Granted some may not sound as good now as they did then but you say bruce srpingsteen doesn't sound as good now. To me that's wrong, he sounds as good now as he always has. I think some of the older tracks sound better than they originally did.

Kerbdog and Whipping boy are a far cry from Led zeppelin and the Police, and besides, Kerbdog aren't that old. But I doubt they were broke after doing the gig. Its not that i don't like many of these classic rock bands, Zeplin,Purple,Maiden- they're all great bands; but I certainly wouldn't pay over 120.00EUR for a ticket. There are plenty of great guitarists around, but - like i said before - people are more interested in seeing jimmy page (who didn't pick up a guitar for 4 years after Ledzep finished, and as a result never regained his previous standard) crank out old stuff rather than hear a new young brilliant guitarist (rodrigez et gabriella for example). Fact is these days Led Zeppelin is a brand- people say they like them and buy tickets to their gigs just so they can claim to be rock fans.

Nailz

I've seen the Happy Mondays 2 weeks ago... and my god, it was class! Nothing like seeing Shaun Ryder dressed up as a British gangster & Bez dancing like a mad man! And if Genisis are playing Ireland... hold me back! I also went to see Ozzy and I've no regrets at all. If it wasn't for old bands and singers, I wouldn't be going to concerts! Thats how useless these new bands are nowadays. I can't believe your defending the likes of them bands for something they don't deserve! :rolleyes:

ShawnRaven

klaus flouride wrote:

Fact is these days Led Zeppelin is a brand- people say they like them and buy tickets to their gigs just so they can claim to be rock fans.

What utter rot! Zeppelin ended in 1980. That's 27 years ago, now think about how many people were either too young to see them live or weren't born that would jump at the chance to see them now? Or had that thought even crossed your mind?

As for your Rodrigo y Gabriella theory, more rot as anytime they have played over here, they have never failed in selling out their venues.

VR!

klaus flouride

validreasoning! wrote:

What utter rot! Zeppelin ended in 1980. That's 27 years ago, now think about how many people were either too young to see them live or weren't born that would jump at the chance to see them now? Or had that thought even crossed your mind?

As for your Rodrigo y Gabriella theory, more rot as anytime they have played over here, they have never failed in selling out their venues.

VR![/QUOTE

Many of those kids are going to see Led Zep cos they're being told that Zeplin are a great band, they're not discovering it for themselves. They're being handed 'best bands ever' lists by magazines and treating them like gospel, even though those lists are drawn up by record labels trying to promote their latest batch of rereleases. Music is meant to be a journey, not a list of bands you're 'supposed' to listen to, just so millionaires like Robert Plant can put more money in their account.

The Who singing 'My Generation' when they're 60 - gimme a f**kin break.

Rigsby

[/QUOTE]

Many of those kids are going to see Led Zep cos they're being told that Zeplin are a great band, they're not discovering it for themselves. They're being handed 'best bands ever' lists by magazines and treating them like gospel,

[/QUOTE]

You are completely missing the point here IMO. What difference does it make why they are going. The crucial point is they are going. As for being handed "best ever " lists : this is how the music industry has worked for time in memorial.

Get over it

ShawnRaven

klaus flouride wrote:

Many of those kids are going to see Led Zep cos they're being told that Zeplin are a great band, they're not discovering it for themselves. They're being handed 'best bands ever' lists by magazines and treating them like gospel, even though those lists are drawn up by record labels trying to promote their latest batch of rereleases. Music is meant to be a journey, not a list of bands you're 'supposed' to listen to, just so millionaires like Robert Plant can put more money in their account.

And you're a speaker for the current generation of music fans? I weep for the future!
You know this for a fact, right? You know that they're heading to these gigs because they read in Magazines rather than their own free will?! With all due respect, that just sounds like sour grapes to me.

The Who singing 'My Generation' when they're 60 - gimme a f**kin break.

Yeah, which is why Oasis covered it? And there's still worse than that. Fred Durst and Limp Bizkit coming out with a song with the same title. Only problem there was the majority of Dursts listeners at the time were about 2 generations behind his generation!

VR!

klaus flouride

You are completely missing the point here IMO. What difference does it make why they are going. The crucial point is they are going. As for being handed "best ever " lists : this is how the music industry has worked for time in memorial.

Get over it [/QUOTE]

It makes a difference cos i think people should go and see a band cos they discovered the music and decided that they liked it, not because they feel they must go because 'this is one of the best bands ever'. Concerts aren't just about how big the band is, the best gigs are done by small bands in small venues - unfortunately alot of young people getting into music aren't going to experience this because they're being told by people, who should know better, that they're better off going to see a bunch of 50 year olds churning out songs that don't sound anywhere near as good as they did years ago. Many of these Music journalists (and their are many who are well into their 50s and still writing about young peoples music) just want ot have their own musical tastes vindicated.

As for those who claim that theres nothing good to listen to these days; do you think that every band that came out during the 60s and 70s were great? Cos i can categorically state now that that isn''t the case- there were plenty of sh1t bands back then, just as there is now- but as is the case in any art form its up to yourself to weed out the good from the bad.

Even comedians change their acts as they get older- although i guess thats what this reformation craze is really, a f**kin comedy show.

Xavi6

U2 haven't even broken up yet so it means we have to go through all that then the reformation. Oh God.

ShawnRaven

klaus flouride wrote:

that they're better off going to see a bunch of 50 year olds churning out songs that don't sound anywhere near as good as they did years ago. Many of these Music journalists (and their are many who are well into their 50s and still writing about young peoples music) just want ot have their own musical tastes vindicated.

Have you any idea how f*cking ridiculous you sound here? Since when did music have an age limit? Or did I fall asleep at that particular meeting? As for music journalists being well into their 50s still writing about "young peoples music"? You do realise that off the top of my head, some huge selling names to this day are the likes of Queen, Bob Marley and even 2Pac. All of which are either dead or the key members are. Now does that make them young peoples or old people music?

Wake up and smell the coffee m'lad. Music doesn't have a f*cking age limit. It never did, and it never will. Look at classical music for christ sake. You know, strings and an orchestra? Is Mozart old peoples music? Is chamber music "old peoples music"? If your answer is yes, my question is why is the national concert hall packing out week after week with people of all ages?

As for those who claim that theres nothing good to listen to these days; do you think that every band that came out during the 60s and 70s were great? Cos i can categorically state now that that isn''t the case- there were plenty of sh1t bands back then, just as there is now- but as is the case in any art form its up to yourself to weed out the good from the bad.

And to an extent i would agree, but there was a lot more to choose from then. There was good music out of the sh*t. Nowadays it's just sh*t, sh*t, and more sh*t. And the funny thing is, RIAA, IMRO etc are blaming music downloaders for the decline of the industry. Which is utter toss. If there was more new stuff being release actually worth grabbing a hold of, and buying, Instead of this years American Idol or X-Factor winner, sales would probably increase. But there isn't, so it won't.

Even comedians change their acts as they get older- although i guess thats what this reformation craze is really, a f**kin comedy show.

Wrong again. Most comedians end up ripping off other comedians jokes and putting a different spin on it. One of the reasons i actually don't find Billy Connolly funny anymore.

VR!

DerekD Goldfish

I buy at least 10 albums by "New" artists a month and yet only 3 albums by new bands released this century would make it into my top 50 albums.
(British Sea Power-The Decline of BSP, Drift - Nocumena, 65 Days of Static-The Fall of Math)
If I want to go see an old fart I dont see the problem.
most music I like if from a good while ago its not like I dont give new bands a chance its just most of the time they dissapoint me.
I have also gone and seen artists long past their best because its as close as im going to get to seeing them during their height till I invent a time machine.
You seem to have this obsession with young people and young music I dont understand the fascination with youth as much as I also get annoyed with pointless nostalgia as well.
Some of the recent reformations seem pointless but if seeing the Police and Genises and other dinosaurs means as much to people as me seeing Tom Verlaine then who am I to say they shouldn't.
Some Artists go on producing great stuff long into thier 60's should they stop just because space needs to be made for new bands?

I can understand partally where you are comming form but your execution was poor.
Yes far to many people give into pointless nostalgia but I dont think it has a significant decremental effect on new music.
I dont think all past music is great at any given time around 5% of music is listinable but while their are mnay good bands now there are few great ones few who's albums will be talked about in decades to come few who we will be telling grandkids of, few who kids getting into music for the first time in 2020 will be desperate to try.
Music is not terrible now on average its as good as it ever was its just far to many artists have become lazy and the public accept far to much mediocrity.

klaus flouride

Since when did music have an age limit? Or did I fall asleep at that particular meeting?

Its got nothing to do with their age (although most of them are in their 50s and 60s) its to do with the fact that they're sh1t now in comparison to what they were - and thats not fair on bands who put in a genuine effort. But nobody wants to say they're sh1t for fear of being told that they know nothing about music.

You do realise that off the top of my head, some huge selling names to this day are the likes of Queen, Bob Marley and even 2Pac.

Yeah but 2pac and Marley aren't reforming to do gigs - a good record will always sound good, a live performance is going to be sh1t if the only reason the band is doing the gig is so they can pay the bills on their retirement home.

Look at classical music for christ sake. You know, strings and an orchestra? Is Mozart old peoples music? Is chamber music "old peoples music"?

It takes years to train and be any good at playing classical music - some don't reach perfection till their in their late 20s. And when classical musicians get a bit old and slow they go on to become conductors or orchestra directors etc (they still play a part in the creation of the music) they don't go on stage at the age of 60 and try to play like they are 25 (unlike many rock guitarists), because that would never work. Classical music is on a higher plain to any other form music - i don't think you can compare the two.
But I understand your point.

If there was more new stuff being release actually worth grabbing a hold of, and buying, Instead of this years American Idol or X-Factor winner, sales would probably increase. But there isn't, so it won't.

But take a look at where you're looking for good music; television, radio? In the 70s there were plenty of bands who were extremely good but who got virtually no air play (Black Sabbath, Deep Purple etc.). Stairway to heaven has got lots off airplay, but which other Led Zep songs have gotten that treatment?

Wrong again. Most comedians end up ripping off other comedians jokes and putting a different spin on it. One of the reasons i actually don't find Billy Connolly funny anymore.

Hey, I said changed!

ShawnRaven

klaus flouride wrote:

Its got nothing to do with their age (although most of them are in their 50s and 60s) its to do with the fact that they're sh1t now in comparison to what they were - and thats not fair on bands who put in a genuine effort. But nobody wants to say they're sh1t for fear of being told that they know nothing about music.

You still avoided my question. Since when does music have an age limit. And none of the examples you have provided have been proven to be "sh*t now in comparison to what they were". Zeppelin haven't even been given the benefit of the doubt. And thats the only example you have provided.

Now would you like to keep digging yourself deeper into this hole?

Yeah but 2pac and Marley aren't reforming to do gigs - a good record will always sound good, a live performance is going to be sh1t if the only reason the band is doing the gig is so they can pay the bills on their retirement home.

Again, i'd like you to send the proof this way. I've seen several bands that you could consider "past their prime", most recent example being the Police at Croke Park and they tore the house down in my honest opinion. I've also seen Bon Jovi, U2, Bryan Adams, all of which you would consider past their prime and they have all put on amazing performances live. Here's the shovel, Klaus. Keep digging.

It takes years to train and be any good at playing classical music - some don't reach perfection till their in their late 20s. And when classical musicians get a bit old and slow they go on to become conductors or orchestra directors etc (they still play a part in the creation of the music) they don't go on stage at the age of 60 and try to play like they are 25 (unlike many rock guitarists), because that would never work. Classical music is on a higher plain to any other form music - i don't think you can compare the two.
But I understand your point.

How old was Pavarotti when he played his last gig again? But you understand my point, and what is understood need not be discussed.

But take a look at where you're looking for good music; television, radio? In the 70s there were plenty of bands who were extremely good but who got virtually no air play (Black Sabbath, Deep Purple etc.). Stairway to heaven has got lots off airplay, but which other Led Zep songs have gotten that treatment?

TV and Radio where you might be looking for new music. Personally if i want to hear something different, i'll trapse around record shops or bars and i like what i hear, i'll go up and ask. Without that method i'd have never heard of The National, Red House Painters, Idlewild or Broken Social Scene. You won't hear much of any of those mentioned (and neither are under the "past their prime" category!) on TV or Radio. So don't be surprised if you don't hear Deep Purple or Black Sabbath on the radio.

VR!

nij

If anyone should push over and make room for new acts, it's the hoards of rappers, r&b pop tarts and talentless corporate robots. But the music industry is not quality-driven. You seem to have this idea, Klaus, that music MUST change just so it sounds different from a previous decade. But there is no such rule, and I would personally be delighted if there was a revival of 80's metal, as most of today's acts are beyond boring.

Take any indie-pop/rock 'star' of today - none of them can sing or play their instruments properly. All I see are guys with bad haircuts banging out repetitive power chords while trying to strain their voices into pseudo-emotion, and the are convinced they are showing us something we haven't seen before, but we're all yawning.

People like Madonna who open a magazine every day to see what's 'trendy' are nothing but sell-out teenage-crowd-pleasers.

Few sights are more ridiculous than Justin Timberlake squeaking out his latest 'song' while awkwardly bopping around like a moron.

Can anyone say Britney Spears' 'comeback' performance was any less laughable than what she usually does?

The golden age of music is gone. Led Zep and the like sell tickets because they are still vastly superior to ANY modern act, and if you think they should push over to let your band in, you'll have to prove your kung fu is better.

grumpytrousers

DerekD Goldfish wrote:

I have also gone and seen artists long past their best because its as close as im going to get to seeing them during their height till I invent a time machine.

Nail/Head interface here. The market for 'old farts' and 'young turks' aren't mutually exclusive. Part of the sodding problem is the amount of 'new' bands who constantly go and namecheck older artists. Can you bloody blame the Rolling Stones for having sell out gigs when Bobby Gillespie from Primal Scream won't shut up about 'em!

klaus flouride

validreasoning! wrote:

You still avoided my question. Since when does music have an age limit.

It has an age limit when the person attempting to play the music is not physically capable of doing it - whats termed as 'losing it'. Have you heard Page and Plant (jimmy page and r. plant's imaginitivaley titled duo act)? Complete and absolute crap, certainly a far cry from what they once created.

Again, i'd like you to send the proof this way. I've seen several bands that you could consider "past their prime", most recent example being the Police at Croke Park and they tore the house down in my honest opinion.

But what are you comparing these performances to? Have you seen these bands before now?

How old was Pavarotti when he played his last gig again? But you understand my point, and what is understood need not be discussed.

I don't know anything about Opera singing, but I would imagine its a skill which takes years of training much like alot of other classical music - plus he'd been gigging all his life, he didn't bugger off the scene, get all fvcked up on drugs and then return a shadow of his former self.

TV and Radio where you might be looking for new music.

You mentioned 'The X factor', which is a t.v. programme, thats why i said it. I don't go anywhere near t.v. for music.

klaus flouride

grumpytrousers wrote:

Nail/Head interface here. The market for 'old farts' and 'young turks' aren't mutually exclusive. Part of the sodding problem is the amount of 'new' bands who constantly go and namecheck older artists. Can you bloody blame the Rolling Stones for having sell out gigs when Bobby Gillespie from Primal Scream won't shut up about 'em!

Yeah, thats true - can't blame them though, if you like a band you are going to name drop them.

klaus flouride

nij wrote:

If anyone should push over and make room for new acts, it's the hoards of rappers, r&b pop tarts and talentless corporate robots. But the music industry is not quality-driven. You seem to have this idea, Klaus, that music MUST change just so it sounds different from a previous decade. But there is no such rule, and I would personally be delighted if there was a revival of 80's metal, as most of today's acts are beyond boring.

Take any indie-pop/rock 'star' of today - none of them can sing or play their instruments properly. All I see are guys with bad haircuts banging out repetitive power chords while trying to strain their voices into pseudo-emotion, and the are convinced they are showing us something we haven't seen before, but we're all yawning.

People like Madonna who open a magazine every day to see what's 'trendy' are nothing but sell-out teenage-crowd-pleasers.



Few sights are more ridiculous than Justin Timberlake squeaking out his latest 'song' while awkwardly bopping around like a moron.

Can anyone say Britney Spears' 'comeback' performance was any less laughable than what she usually does?

The golden age of music is gone. Led Zep and the like sell tickets because they are still vastly superior to ANY modern act, and if you think they should push over to let your band in, you'll have to prove your kung fu is better.

What Golden age? The 70s? With such fine acts as The Osmonds, The Bee Gees, Dana (Irish Eurovision entry), anyone for some Barry Manilow? Every 'age' had their lot of crap radio - friendly acts. The 70s also had Led Zep, Deep Purple and Black Sabbath; and they were good because they had the energy to do it and were ambitious - now they're just going through the motions. Led Zep sell tickets cos there are no shortage of middle-aged men who can't wait to get down with the kids.

the_syco

I'm sick of the crap bands that think they are any good.

Iron Maiden still do an excellent show, and still produce albums.

Rigsby

[/QUOTE]

It makes a difference cos i think people should go and see a band cos they discovered the music and decided that they liked it, not because they feel they must go because 'this is one of the best bands ever'. [/QUOTE]

Since when did teenagers ever allow themselves to be told what to do by the previous generation, especially with regards to the music they listen to .

Besides, how can you be so sure that they did n't "discover" these bands already by listening to their parent's record collection. With a teenager there's no such thing as "feeling you must go to a concert". They go because they want to for whatever reason.

ShawnRaven

klaus flouride wrote:

It has an age limit when the person attempting to play the music is not physically capable of doing it - whats termed as 'losing it'. Have you heard Page and Plant (jimmy page and r. plant's imaginitivaley titled duo act)? Complete and absolute crap, certainly a far cry from what they once created.

I'm assuming you're referring to No Quarter, the legendary acoustic performance they had in 1994. If you can call that performanc crap, then you're obviously not a music fan. The versions of Gallows Pole and The Battle Of Evermore managed to be improved over the originals with only half the original band there! I think you're insane!

But what are you comparing these performances to? Have you seen these bands before now?

Several bootlegs and official video releases, not to mention their original studio albums. Probably exactly the same things you're comparing them to. The essential difference is i've actually seen them live.

I don't know anything about Opera singing, but I would imagine its a skill which takes years of training much like alot of other classical music - plus he'd been gigging all his life, he didn't bugger off the scene, get all fvcked up on drugs and then return a shadow of his former self.

But most of the bands, you're refering to are shadows for their former selves. Only in your warped little mind (as i'm obviously not the only one disagreeing with you, surely we can't all be wrong?!). Btw, Jovi, The Police, and U2 haven't buggered off the scene and get f*cked up on drugs either. They all remained in the music scene in some way or another. Again, all examples i have brought up. All you seem to be able to bring up is Zeppelin, your obvious grudge.

You mentioned 'The X factor', which is a t.v. programme, thats why i said it. I don't go anywhere near t.v. for music.

Neither do I, but thats where the record companies are generally headed. The sad truth unfortunately, and about the only thing we're set to agree on in this thread.

VR!

klaus flouride

I was referring to albums such as 'Walking into Clarkesdale' by Page and Plant which was released around 98 / 99 - sh1t. They should play acoustic gigs cos they're probably more suited to it, its the kind of thing old guys do and why not? I reckon it would be better than them trying to pretend they're 25 again.

Bon jovi and U2 are terrible nowadays - old age has most certainly made them worse.

I mention Led Zep alot cos they're a band everyone knows and its probably the biggest of all the reformations.

Fact is alot of people paid good money to go and see these dinosaur shows - they don't want to be told that they've just thrown their money away on a bag of sh1te.

If you want an end to the indie bullsh1t then encourage young bands to play good music and stop buying tickets to go and see well established acts giving bad performances.

ShawnRaven

klaus flouride wrote:

I was referring to albums such as 'Walking into Clarkesdale' by Page and Plant which was released around 98 / 99 - sh1t. They should play acoustic gigs cos they're probably more suited to it, its the kind of thing old guys do and why not? I reckon it would be better than them trying to pretend they're 25 again.

You're really banging on the age thing, not to mention showing your ignorance. Walking Into Clarkesdale was a bad example too. It didn't do great over this side of the pond I admit, but over the US it didn't do too bad, entered on the billboard charts at #8 and Most High won a grammy. Not bad for a crap album by two British hasbeens.

Bon jovi and U2 are terrible nowadays - old age has most certainly made them worse.

Go see them live, then come back to me, until then it's strictly you're opinion. Please do no confuse this as fact.

I mention Led Zep alot cos they're a band everyone knows and its probably the biggest of all the reformations.

Debatable. I remember the same hullabaloo about Queen's reforming two years ago.

Fact is alot of people paid good money to go and see these dinosaur shows - they don't want to be told that they've just thrown their money away on a bag of sh1te.

Again, strictly your opinion and not to be confusd as fact. A lot of people have paid good money to see legendary bands that came out enjoying the shows too, not to mention those who fell into the "born too late" syndrome that got to see their heroes for the first time. Again, another element you conveniently brushed off, no nobody's surprise. First sign of losing an argument really. But keep going.

If you want an end to the indie bullsh1t then encourage young bands to play good music and stop buying tickets to go and see well established acts giving bad performances.

I will, when they start doing so. I notice you keep preaching this, but give some examples of who we should be encouraging. At least that way we might have an idea where you're trying to come from!

VR!

nij

klaus flouride wrote:

I was referring to albums such as 'Walking into Clarkesdale' by Page and Plant which was released around 98 / 99 - sh1t. They should play acoustic gigs cos they're probably more suited to it, its the kind of thing old guys do and why not? I reckon it would be better than them trying to pretend they're 25 again.

Bon jovi and U2 are terrible nowadays - old age has most certainly made them worse.

I mention Led Zep alot cos they're a band everyone knows and its probably the biggest of all the reformations.

Fact is alot of people paid good money to go and see these dinosaur shows - they don't want to be told that they've just thrown their money away on a bag of sh1te.

If you want an end to the indie bullsh1t then encourage young bands to play good music and stop buying tickets to go and see well established acts giving bad performances.

Wow, you're definition of 'old' is mid-late 40's?? Christ!

I'm 24 and I've seen quite a few 'dinosaur' shows, and they were among the best shows I've ever seen. Most recently, I saw Manowar (40's-50's) and they simply slaughtered the unholy ass off any 'young' metal band I've seen (and I've seen loads). The vibe was one of tight professionalism and bottomless energy. They really knew what they were doing.

Face it, most of the 'young' acts are either the lip-syncing, over-priced Justins and Britneys, the talentless rappers or the yawn inducing indie-poppers. We don't need some weird 'new' sound - we need some quality.

If you go and see Zep live (if you can! lol) and leave your age prejudices at the door, you might actually enjoy yourself.

Driver 8

As anyone who saw the show in the point last may or november can attest, Springsteen can still tear the house down.

A high energy 165 minute show when most of your new indie pin ups would've finished their encore inside an hour or so, and be in their dressing room whining to the NME about their hectic workload.