Viva

cruiserweight

Hi all, I have my viva next Monday (8th October). I was wondering is anybody had any viva stories or any knowledge to impart?

Esmereldina

cruiserweight wrote:

Hi all, I have my viva next Monday (8th October). I was wondering is anybody had any viva stories or any knowledge to impart?

I was actually planning to create a similar thread some time soon, as I'll be submitting my PhD thesis in the next few weeks...

So any viva stories/knowledge would be very welcome! OP, Let us know how you get on too...:)

Red Alert

Good luck everyone and keep us posted on how you get on!

NextSteps

I'm a long way off from that, more's the pity, but would love to hear how you get on. Best of luck!

fits

Esmereldina wrote:

... as I'll be submitting my PhD thesis in the next few weeks...

Me too... Although I still have a shedload of work to finish. Not looking forward to this viva one bit.

cruiserweight

It is at 10 am tomorrow and I have just finished re-reading my thesis. I will let you know how I get on, provided it goes well

Best of luck with it!

cruiserweight

Well I passed. It was relatively painless, more of a discussion than anything else. Those really difficult technical questions that I feared would stump me never materialised. The only one that stumped me temporarily, was "What question would you not like to be asked about this work?"

But finished and now to go drinking?

NextSteps

Nice one. How long did it last?

cruiserweight

UB wrote:

Nice one. How long did it last?

It was really short, about 50 minutes of questions and discussion. The only nerve wracking bit was waiting to go in. Other than that it was fine. When they sent me out so they could make their decision I was certain I had nailed it

Tom Dunne

Congratulations. When do you get to officially call yourself Dr.?

cruiserweight

tom dunne wrote:

Congratulations. When do you get to officially call yourself Dr.?

I have been doing that unofficially for a while Graduation is in December. A few corrections to do, well mainly just extend the conclusions and that is it

Esmereldina

cruiserweight wrote:

I have been doing that unofficially for a while Graduation is in December. A few corrections to do, well mainly just extend the conclusions and that is it

Congratulations Dr. Cruiserweight
It's nice to hear the success stories!! 50 minutes sounds like an ok amount of time to spend talking about one's thesis... it's also nice to hear that it was a discussion rather than a grilling. I managed to terrify myself by reading horror stories on the internet a few weeks ago!

Red Alert

Congrats & enjoy the night after that! When's yours coming up Esmereldina?

Incidentally, do they ever 'fail' anybody? My mom's a lecturer and said it pretty much never happens in her field.

H2G2

Red wrote:

Incidentally, do they ever 'fail' anybody? My mom's a lecturer and said it pretty much never happens in her field.

I am a little reluctant to post this, given that it will be read by ppl preparing for their viva’s, but the answer is a scary yes. In my department there has been 3 fails in last 2 years, with about 14 successes (clear yes or minor edits).
A fail at viva is rare, often you should have an indication of things not being good well beforehand. In my field, I always insist on my students presenting a conference paper before the viva, as it helps in many ways.
Whilst I personally know of many viva horror stories (my own included), I know of many many more success stories. A positive mental attitude, confidence in your knowledge and abilities will go a long way to prepare you for the big day.

H2G2

As a followup to my last post, below is a preparation sheet I give my students – it may help some of you (I have removed the domain specific stuff)

Preparation

• Dress code – look smart
• Get your ‘head straight’.
• Drop all “uncertainty baggage” before the Viva day
• Remember
  • You cannot anticipate everything the examiners will ask
  • They are not only testing your knowledge of the area but also of advancing it.
• Think - are there any questions that have occurred frequently during the research, during discussions, during conferences?
• Every ‘weakness’ has its own corrective measure. Limitations can be explained as sensible decisions within the research process.
• Know your way through the pages of your thesis
• Be able to find figures, graphics, sections without difficulty
• Read thesis - All of it (again)
  • Write prompt / reminder notes on separate sheet
  • Label each chapter for easy access
• Bring tissues, paracetemol, water, etc.

Essential materials

• References
  • List of most popular citations in thesis
  • The five most influential authors in your area...
• OHP slides for drawing essential diagrams / figures
• OHP pens
• Your copy of your thesis (with your prompts written in)
  • Do you remember key points

Questions – ‘Usual Suspects’

• What have you done that merits a PhD?
• Summarise your thesis in 3 minutes?
• Origin of work
  • How did you choose this topic?
  • How did you become involved in this research area? (evolution of the core idea)
• New about work
  • What's original about your work?
  • What are the novel aspects of your work - or innovative aspects?
  • What are the contributions (to knowledge) of your thesis?
• Are there any drawbacks to your methods/work/findings?
• Can you talk through the results as illustrated in network diagram(s)
• What is the relevance of your contributions? - to other researchers? - to industry?
• The future
  • What are researchers in this area offered?
  • Implications for future work?
  • Where does it go from here? What are the plans for this work?

Other Questions

• The examiners could also ask you about literature not in the thesis, to test whether you are widely-read in the area
• What are the applications of this research in the ‘Real World’
• What do you feel is the most important aspect for further work?
• What are the novel aspects of your work and what have you contributed?
• Explain what is happening in Table x.y or the meaning of Figure x.z?
• Have you any questions to ask us (the examiners) before the examination concludes?
• Methodology
  • What are the advantages of your approach?
  • What are the disadvantages of your approach?
  • What is wrong with approach X?

Tips

• Listen to the questions and take your time answering them
• Try to make your answers initially inclusive (spot overlaps), analytical, and then if appropriate dismissive or point out the limitations - and the effects of these limits.
• Prepare answer to generic viva questions
• Handling difficult questions
  • Keep your head - Don’t fight with them
  • If you don't understand the question, ask for clarification.
  • Paraphrase the question in your own words and say, ‘is this what you mean?’
  • If they have a misconception about your work, try to pin it down and explain it.
  • If you think the question is irrelevant, explain why you think it is irrelevant (it may be that you need to be more broad-minded).
  • If you really can't answer a question:
    • Be honest.
    • If you have any idea at all, say it.
    • Say, ‘I can't answer this on the spot, but I c/should be able to work it out in my own time’
    • If it's about literature you haven't come across, thank the examiner and ask for a reference.

fits

Great post! Thanks! (sticky candidate.)

Congrats to the OP...

I've heard of people failing vivas too. My own supervisor failed one a few months ago in the UK. I know of one guy who had to do four vivas... I think he got caught up in politics between departments which probably didnt help....

I'm hoping to have one paper published (it already is), two accepted (they've been submitted) and another submitted by the time my Viva comes round... so the majority of the work will already have been peer reviewed.

Red Alert

Thread stickied! Thanks to H2G2 for all the info and best of luck to everyone nearing theirs

Esmereldina

Red Alert wrote: »

Congrats & enjoy the night after that! When's yours coming up Esmereldina?

Well , I just handed the thesis in last week So hopefully I'll have the viva in the next couple of months... will let you all know how I get on.
Ps Thanks for all the advice H2G2!

cruiserweight

Quick update, I have my graduation next Thursday

A couple of other bits of advice. After your viva allow time for corrections and administration to process paperwork before you expect to graduate. My corrections only took a day or so, just took admin a while to deal with it

NextSteps

cruiserweight wrote: »

Quick update, I have my graduation next Thursday

Sometimes I close my eyes and picture my graduation, like little girls picture their wedding. I hate to admit that.

fits

me too!

Turbulent Bill

I had mine recently (passed!), so I'll give my impressions while they're fresh in the mind. Firstly, I can't over-emphasise the importance of going through the entire thesis again, and looking for areas of possible discussion. This includes fundamental theory (if it's in eng/science/maths), which you might normally take for granted, as well as your own work. The idea is to probe your basic understanding and assumptions in the field as well as your novel stuff.

Secondly, you may be asked to apply your knowledge to something you haven't actually covered in the thesis, thinking on your feet. Again, this is to test your understanding and skill. It's fine if you're stumped (I was plenty of times!) as the examiners are more interested in your thought processes than getting the right answer.

I hope this doesn't sound too intimidating, it's not supposed to be. H2G2's guide above is an excellent starting point. Find out well in advance how the viva will be conducted and do plenty of preparation. You can't anticipate everything, but it makes life easier. Overall, try to enjoy it. The time flies, and it's great to see experts in your field genuinely impressed with your work.

Good luck!

Red Alert

Congrats everyone

RE*AC*TOR

Just passed mine last week. Was hugely apprehensive beforehand. However, it couldn't have went much better. The extern essentially said that it was a formality and that he was happy with the standard of the research.

Huge weight off now.

Dr Strange

RE*AC*TOR wrote: »

Just passed mine last week. Was hugely apprehensive beforehand. However, it couldn't have went much better. The extern essentially said that it was a formality and that he was happy with the standard of the research.

Huge weight off now.

Congrats! Hope my extern will be as easy-going.

rummy

fits wrote: »

Great post! Thanks! (sticky candidate.)

Congrats to the OP...

I've heard of people failing vivas too. My own supervisor failed one a few months ago in the UK. I know of one guy who had to do four vivas... I think he got caught up in politics between departments which probably didnt help....

I'm hoping to have one paper published (it already is), two accepted (they've been submitted) and another submitted by the time my Viva comes round... so the majority of the work will already have been peer reviewed.

Hi there...
For everyone in the throws of writing their PhD or getting ready to defend it I must say the book by Rowena Murray is excellent. Its called How to survive your viva.

RE: failing viva's. It is not uncommon to fail a viva, however if the supervisor has done his/her job properly it should not get to that stage. Once you get to viva stage it indicates that your supervisor is happy that it is of a PhD standard (though I was an internal examiner for a PhD where the student 'pressurised' the supervisor into sending it to the internal examinerand unfortunately she shouldn't have done that as even after the second resub\mit I would not put my name to it as an internal examiner).

When doing your viva - read your thesis (bring it in with you to the viva). Remember this might be the only time when someone has read your thesis (besides your supervisor) in its entirety so enjoy the discussion.

Wish you all the best of luck.

Max001

Hiya

Not quite at Phd level yet

Is it fair to assume that a social sciences research masters
viva wouldn't be as demanding as a Phd viva?

Thanks for any advice. My supervisor has told me a viva
at this level is really just to make sure you've done the work
yourself........does that sound right?

Cheers

magneticimpulse

was just reading these posts today. i think if you get to viva stage, you have pretty much passed. i know of people who's phd was stopped after 1 year or even someone who had their phd extended 1 year and they did not have an opportunity to get to the viva stage. im in the motions of trying to get motivated writing. im motivated during the week, but still doing lab work so its difficult to focus.

thanks for the advance. it also helps starting to write...what are people really looking for, and therefore trying to answer these questions in the thesis.

im in france so ive to do a public presentation. i dont know which is more scary, in a room with 3 people or in front of everyone in your university, examiners and family. ill try not think about that bit yet

cruiserweight

magneticimpulse wrote: »

im in france so ive to do a public presentation. i dont know which is more scary, in a room with 3 people or in front of everyone in your university, examiners and family. ill try not think about that bit yet

I have heard unofficially that a public viva can be to your benefit, in that examiners are less likely to ask you any extremely probing or difficult questions that may cause embarassment

Dr Strange

Just passed my viva with minor corrections! It's finally over (almost)

boarddotie

One week to go until my own Viva so thanks for this thread! I have been compiling a large (and scary) list of possible questions not from websites ot books but from people who have actually done theirs in the last few years. Can post soon if anyone is interested or PM me

Din Taylor

I spent four hours in mine.

It was supposed to start at 2 p.m. I went to the room five minutes early and was beginning to panic when nobody showed up by 2.15. I was about to leave and find out what was going on when my supervisor walked in. He said that he was eavesdropping on the examiners at lunch and they said I'd be alright as long as I gave a good showing of myself.

The two lads sauntered in at 2.30. It was a bit unnerving at they were all bunsiness-like and gave me no eye contact. This was despite the fact that I shared a bonga pipe with the external after a conference in Amsterdam and the internal tried it on with my girlfriend in front of me (this is another story altogether ).

Anyway determined to "give a good showing of myself" I waffled on and on after every question that they asked. It was 6.15 and I noticed the external looking at his watch (he wasn't staying the night and was getting the train home). He then told me to just wrap it up.

When I finished I asked if they wanted me to leave the room so they could make their decision. They said it was alright as they had already signed the relevant forms for a pass with minor corrections (27 typos). I probably could have gotten out of there after an hour but was glad to ave passed all the same:). Brilliant feeling.

My advice to anyone with an upcoming viva is to relax. I firmly believe that a competent supervisor will not let you submit your thesis if it is inaequate. As long as you actually wrote the thesis you'll know it inside out and you should have nothing to worry about.

Yalla

Since this is a sticky, I figured I'd contribute my recent viva experience. Mine was over in a flash: a little over an hour.

It was supposed to start at 11:30, and my supervisor and I didn't enter the room until 11:45 or 11:50. It was a private viva, and so it was just me, my supervisor, the chair, and the internal and external examiners. The chair gave brief introductions and an overview of the viva process. Then I gave a 5 minute synopsis of the thesis. The external began with comments and questions first.

Though my supervisor prepared me with a short 'mock viva' a week before, the questions that came up in the viva were different than I expected. However, the examiners set a very conversational tone, and were eager to reassure me that they were pleased with what I had submitted. I didn't waffle, and where there were questions that went a bit outside the scope of my thesis (e.g. discussing the theory of a somewhat related academic but not the focus of this study), I repeated their question, then my thesis purpose, and stated that it was outside the scope of what I was attempting to do (See the book 'How to Survive the Viva' for great practice for this!). All in all, while I was nervous, I felt that I was given ample time and space for answers and explanations.

My supervisor and I left the room for the examiners to have a discussion. We walked down to the kitchen and made some tea and by the time it was ready, the chair called us back up. The external examiner announced that I passed without any revisions necessary and the two examiners filled out a unified document for the college and let me know that they'd leave their copies of my thesis to collect (for feedback, suggestions for the future etc). The champagne was brought out and everyone in the department joined in a congratulatory drink by 1:30! (First time I checked my watch, so I'm not certain when the viva itself wrapped up!) After this, the entire committee was brought out to lunch. It seemed so fast and was such a whirlwind - I guess I anticipated much more drama or uncertainty. My internal examiner later emailed me the 9 typos that I should correct before submitting the thesis in hard copy. Since the viva took place the week of Christmas (really!) I have had the Christmas break off to relax, look at things at my leisure, and wait for any official college paperwork in the meantime.

It went a lot better than I imagined, and finally understand why so many people enjoy the viva. As has been said, your supervisor should not allow you to get to this stage without the full expectation that you will pass. Revision and preparation is key!

Moojuice

Have my viva on Friday, bricking it but read through my thesis and I am impressed with it as I haven't gone near it in a a good few months! I am confident in my work but still nervous about it. Got my 20 minute Prezi presentation ready to rock! I'l post and let people know how it goes.

catho_monster

Just getting myself sorted for my viva too.

This list of typos that people bring in - should it be a list of typos, and what they should be, or just a list of them as they currently are, in their wrong form?

Moojuice

So I passed. 3 hrs, intense questions. External was tough but fair. Actually enjoyed it as it was a great discussion about my work. Also learned a lot which is the main thing. Minor corrections but getting through them at a decent pace. If you know your stuff, which you will, you will do fine.

convert

Congratulations Dr Moojuice!

Have my viva coming up in the next while, so trying to get myself sorted out in advance so I won't have any last minute panics.

Red Alert

Passed mine this morning - 3 and a half hours. Waiting to get corrections list tomorrow.

El Siglo

Congratulations Red! Well done, you must be delighted!

djpbarry

Red Alert wrote: »

Passed mine this morning - 3 and a half hours. Waiting to get corrections list tomorrow.

I for one welcome our new post-doctoral overlord.

Congratulations.

convert

Red Alert wrote: »

Passed mine this morning - 3 and a half hours. Waiting to get corrections list tomorrow.

You must be thrilled, Dr Red Alert. Well done!
Still waiting for mine

Red Alert

Was pretty nerve wracking actually! So glad I'm not doing that again

woodchuck

I have mine in a week, so getting nervous! Glad I found this sticky though, some good advice, thanks

I did a rehearsal of my viva presentation for my department yesterday and it went well, lots of positive feedback, but I still have some concerns if anyone has got some more advice!

1) I haven't published any of my data yet (putting papers together atm). So the fact that none of it is peer reviewed, does that mean they examiners will go harder on me?

2) It's up to me whether or not my supervisor is present during the viva... what are peoples thoughts on this? I'm leaning towards not having her there... I think it would just make me more nervous/self conscious. But how do I say that to her?

3) Any additional things I should bring with me? (I've noted the obvious; thesis, water, painkillers, my laptop with the presentation and laser pointer, tissues). What about the most relevant papers published in the area or is it enough just to be familiar with them and to be able to discuss them? Is a notebook necessary?

4) What to wear!? I know to dress smart, but I'm really not comfortable in shirts/blouses (large chested... results in gaping holes between buttons no matter what I try...). Is a 'nice' top ok or would it make a really bad first impression if I'm not wearing a shirt?

boarddotie

woodchuck wrote: »

I have mine in a week, so getting nervous! Glad I found this sticky though, some good advice, thanks

I did a rehearsal of my viva presentation for my department yesterday and it went well, lots of positive feedback, but I still have some concerns if anyone has got some more advice!

1) I haven't published any of my data yet (putting papers together atm). So the fact that none of it is peer reviewed, does that mean they examiners will go harder on me?

2) It's up to me whether or not my supervisor is present during the viva... what are peoples thoughts on this? I'm leaning towards not having her there... I think it would just make me more nervous/self conscious. But how do I say that to her?

3) Any additional things I should bring with me? (I've noted the obvious; thesis, water, painkillers, my laptop with the presentation and laser pointer, tissues). What about the most relevant papers published in the area or is it enough just to be familiar with them and to be able to discuss them? Is a notebook necessary?

4) What to wear!? I know to dress smart, but I'm really not comfortable in shirts/blouses (large chested... results in gaping holes between buttons no matter what I try...). Is a 'nice' top ok or would it make a really bad first impression if I'm not wearing a shirt?

None of my work had been published when I did my Viva. The examiners didnt seem to care as it was very novel work for my Dept and knew that much of my time was spent setting up protocols etc rather than walking straight into a set-up project. I wouldnt worry, I dont think they will go harder on you-they just wont be as soft as if you had them all published! Once you can tell them a publication strategy and give them an idea of the journals you hope to target that should satisfy them!

I am not sure about the supervisor present thing. You might want to as the chair and the chair can then ask the super if she wouldnt mind staying away.

I wouldnt bother bringing the relevant papers, but make sure you know they key papers and jot a few key points/stats you might have to recall on a sheet. I think someone at the evry start of this thread suggested putting little coloured stickers in between each chapter so if they ask you to go to the Methods section you can find it easily. Also if there is a figure or something you feel they will defo ask you about, put a sticky marker on that too so you are not flicking through pages and pages searching. Notebook is a good idea to jot down points that the examiners bring up that you might need to focus on. The good thing about having your Supervisor there is that you can ask her to jot down these points and you can just listen.

I would suggest being as formal as possible for this. I would be the same as you OP and actually hate shirts/blouses. I wore a dress from H+M, really modest with a little suit jacket and heels. They have some nice, simple work type dresses (with pretty high necklines) if that would work.

Oooh best of luck!!!:pac:

woodchuck

Thanks a million boarddotie

I’m not sure who my chair is yet (sometimes they’re only picked at the last minute where I am!) but I have a meeting with my supervisor tomorrow and I suspect she’ll ask me if I want her to be there then. She had mentioned a couple of weeks ago that I should start thinking about it, so I’d be surprised if she doesn’t bring it up again. She also said she wouldn’t be offended if said I didn’t want her there... I suppose I’m just bad at saying it in a politically correct manner :P

Basically I’d be afraid if I’m asked something that I’m not too sure on and I start bull$hitting an answer, I don’t want her to be sitting in the corner cringing :P Also we’ve had some minor disagreements about what the overall implications of the results are... nothing major, more a difference of opinion, but I want to be free to express my own opinions/ideas in the viva with worrying about what she thinks about what I’m saying.

I think the only advantage to having her there would be to take notes for me... but for the corrections am I expected to take note of them there and then or would they give me a written/electronic list of them anyway?

djpbarry

woodchuck wrote: »

I think the only advantage to having her there would be to take notes for me... but for the corrections am I expected to take note of them there and then or would they give me a written/electronic list of them anyway?

I would expect the examiners will provide you with a list. If that's the only reason you want your supervisor there, then I would certainly suggest you ask them to stay away.

As for your other questions, all I brought into my viva was a copy of my thesis that I had trawled through myself to identify any typos or potential short-comings. If you know your thesis inside-out, you’ll be fine. Regarding what to wear, I wouldn’t worry about it too much – you want to look smart, but you also want to be comfortable.

woodchuck

Thanks jdpbarry

Yeah I think I'll have to just ask her to stay away... will just say that having her there would make me more nervous or something I'm sure she won't mind, I just don't want to offend her! We get along fairly well and I think she'd prefer to be there because I'm her first student and I think she'd want to hear their opinions on the work (for the likes of grant applications and where to go next)... but I suppose at the end of the day it's my viva and I want to be as comfortable as I can

And my thesis currently looks like the place where post-its come to die :P So hoping I've enough notes etc to address any questions/jog my memory!

catho_monster

Just my 2cents, with a kind of contrasting opinion to djpbarry...

My supervisor didn't sit in on my viva, but in retrospect I kind of wish that he had.

The list of corrections that I got, I found myself trying to explain to my supervisor how that point had come around, why they said xyz, the perspective and reasoning behind different points in the report. At this point (in the middle of doing those corrections) I would really appreciate it if he was able to read between the lines of the report the same way I can. I know I shouldn't necessarily need my supervisor involved at this point, but I like his input...

Also, don't worry one bit about the thoughts that you might be bullsh1itting it when they ask you questions. You need to realise that YOU are the expert in this area, the area that your thesis covers. If they ask you a question out of left-field that you haven't thought of before, acknowledge that you haven't thought of it before, process it in your head and then give them some impressions on it. This isn't bull, this is you making educated, learned, experienced, expert conclusions on their question. It may feel wierd to think of yourself in that way, especially as you sit there trying to justify your work, but thats exactly the point. Believe in your work and in all the information you have in your head that didn't make it into the final text. If you do that, you'll kick viva ass.

djpbarry

catho_monster wrote: »

If they ask you a question out of left-field that you haven't thought of before, acknowledge that you haven't thought of it before, process it in your head and then give them some impressions on it. This isn't bull, this is you making educated, learned, experienced, expert conclusions on their question.

I would also add that it’s perfectly acceptable to admit you don’t know the answer to a question – you can’t be expected to be an expert on everything. That said, simply stating “I don’t know” and leaving it at that probably wouldn’t be a good idea! Remember that if you take control of the discussion, you can steer it toward topics you’re more comfortable discussing.

woodchuck

Yay, I passed (pending minor corrections, but all doable)

Thanks for all the advice guys! I ended up having my supervisor at the viva. She really REALLY wanted to be there and I kept changing my mind. I knew she'd want me to repeat every single thing that was said in there so I figured it would just be easier to have her there in the end. Luckily the chairperson made it clear that she couldn't participate in any way though! It was also good to have her there to keep me company when I was waiting outside while they made their final decision. And now that I'm doing the corrections I know I can go to her for advice if I need it since she knows the type of things they're looking for as well as I do (that was good advice, thanks catho_monster!).

And I ended up doing a bit of panic shopping one of the days and got a nice jacket and top to wear (just matched it up with some black trousers and boots I already had).

Overall I'm very happy with how it went. My internal examiner even invited me to give my presentation to his department next week :pac: