Flabby Upper Arms

idunnoutellme

Hi
I have recently started using a vibrating plate machine to try get rid of the cellulite in my body (a girl can dream), and every session is doing good things to my thighs and bum definitely, but the vibrations are not reaching my upper arms - which are pretty flabby - hate them so much.
So are there any exercises people can recomment I do to try tone them?

rubadub

idunnoutellme wrote:

So are there any exercises people can recomment I do to try tone them?

Chin ups, pull ups, pushups and dieting. A "toned" look is really a lowering of body fat and a building of muscle. Ditch the gimmicky machine, your time is far better spent doing proper weights- you just start with bodyweight exercises like I mentioned. And do not be scared you will never get "too big" without years of steroids and intense daily hardcore lifting. If you ever went on a crash diet or lead a sedentary life you probably have smaller muscles anyway. Read the stickies in the above posts.

Transform

Vibrating plate - you have to be joking!!
Nothing can replace sweat, weights and a good diet

idunnoutellme

oh no i'm not joking - it really does work! i've done my homework before buying the sessions and I'm telling you there's plenty of research to back up whole body vibration.
I'm using the machine 3 times a week for the next 4 weeks, 3 sessions down and my legs are feeling much stronger and tighter after the sessions and i fall asleep alot easier.

if you dont believe me you can read up about it on
http://www.thevspot.ca/skincorrections.pdf

also i'm not sure if i'd be interested in chin up and push ups - i'm a girl - isnt there any nicer exercises? i never crash diet

Hanley

Yeah, Transform. So there

What's unnice abotu chin ups and push ups? The fact they require effort....?

EJB

d'ye mind me askin where abouts can you do these vibration sessions and how much roughly do they cost??....Oh, and one more, how long is each session?? (Soz, know I'm kinda gettin away from your initial question, but haven't heard of anybody using those machines before although I have read about them in magazines)

Boru.

idunnoutellme is perfectly right. Did you guys forget that I was one of the first guys certified in the country in whole body vibrational training? And have stacks of medical and scientific reports that confirm the findings as well as the first hand evidence of my clients? :rolleyes:

As for the flabby upper arms you can do several technqiues on the platform to firm and strengthen your tricpes (the weak muscle on the back of your arms). You can perform static dips, close grip and wide pushups etc. You can see a variety of those exercies taught and demonstrated here

Arm Exercise- Bulging Biceps, Toned Triceps and Firm Forearms in Just a Few Minutes

Build Arm Muscle - Part 2Applying Iosmetrics to Tone the Triceps.

Flabby Arm Exercise - A sure fire way to tone and tighten the chicken wings in record time

EJB, if your intrested in that type of training please pm and I'll be more than happy to discuss it in detail.


Just to explain a little more about that type of training for those curious...

Whole Body Vibration training provides the following advantages:

• Shorter training time for similar results
• Increased muscle strength
• Improved flexibility
• Intense stimulation and increase of neurological system
• Increased blood circulation
• Aids in the reduction of pain
• Increased bone mineral density
• Increased levels of key hormones - Testosterone, Human Growth Hormone, IGF-I and Serotonin
• Massage applications
• Decrease in Cortisol levels (stress hormones)
• Increase in balance and coordination.

The following is an excerpt from one of the major papers and trainng manuals published on Whole Body Vibration..

WBV is based on Rhythmic Neuromuscular Stimulation (RNS) which dates back to 1960 when Professor W. Biermann, from the former East German Republic, described ‘cyclical vibrations’ capable of improving the condition of the joints relatively quickly. When the Berlin Wall was constructed, this method was taken over by the Soviet Union and all information literally disappeared behind the Iron Curtain.

Russian scientist, Vladimir Nazarov, became the first person to utilise vibration training in its most modern application - Biomechanical Stimulation (BMS). With this technology he was able to investigate involuntary muscle contractions and involuntary movement. This information, coupled with the mounting knowledge of voluntary movement, allowed them to answer many questions regarding neuromuscular control.

The Russian Space Program utilized WBV to allow its cosmonauts to stay in space longer without experiencing adverse reactions. Later, ballet dancers with minor muscle injuries such as Achilles Tendonitis discovered that vibration aided the healing process. They also found that their muscular strength and jump height increased with only a quarter of the effort or time required by traditional training methods. This led many of Russia’s top Olympic athletes to incorporate WBV into their training programmes. Since then, many other athletes have discovered the benefits of vibration training.

In 1999, Guus van der Meer, a Dutch Olympic team trainer, began to test the reaction of healthy, untrained volunteers to WBV training

For those who are really interested I can provide you with details of over 70 independant studies confirming the above listed effects.

And I'd also suggest reading the following;

• The Use of Vibration as an Exercise Intervention - Cardinale M, Bosco C. (2003)
• Strength Increase after Whole Body Vibration Compared with Resistance
• Training - Delecluse C, et al (2003)
• Whole-body vibration exercise leads to alterations in muscle blood volume - Kerschan-Schindl K, Grampp S, Henk C, Resch H, Preisinger E, Fialka-Moser V, Imhof (2001)
• Hormonal response to whole-body vibration in men - Bosco C, Cardinale M, Colli R, Tihanyi J, von Duvillard SP, Viru A (1999)
• Effect of 6-month Whole Body Vibration Training on Hip Density, Muscle Strength and Postural Control in Postmenopausal Women: A Randomized Control Pilot Study - Vershueren S, et al (2003)
• Whole Body Vibration – A Research Study - Grenfell, C (2004)

Hanley

Boru. wrote:

Just to explain a little more about that type of training for those curious...

Whole Body Vibration training provides the following advantages:

• Shorter training time for similar results
• Increased muscle strength
• Improved flexibility
• Intense stimulation and increase of neurological system
• Increased blood circulation
• Aids in the reduction of pain
• Increased bone mineral density
• Increased levels of key hormones - Testosterone, Human Growth Hormone, IGF-I and Serotonin
• Massage applications
• Decrease in Cortisol levels (stress hormones)
• Increase in balance and coordination.

Ummm the exact same as the benefits of free weights. Not saying it's useless, but for those who wouldn't realise, all the above can be obtained with free weights too (except the massage applications)

Actually, what are the "advantages" over?? The implication is that it provides the advantage over traditional resistance training. Is that not a bit mis-leading?


EDIT: Also, one ofthe studies said this;

In 1999, Guus van der Meer, a Dutch Olympic team trainer, began to test the reaction of healthy, untrained volunteers to WBV training

I assume the results were positive. Again, is it due to the methodolgy being used, or the fact anything would work for an untrained individual? I'm not knocking the system, but some of the info on it would seem to be a tad bit mis-leading. Like the implication is that it's the best training system to use??

I'm just trying to get a sense as to what I could do with one of these machines because they recently spent quite a substansial amount of money on one in Hercs and if it could be of benefit I might end up trying it out, even tho I personally think there's a lot better things to spend the money on. Half of what was spent woulda got us one of these bad boys.... http://www.irondawg.com/monoli3.jpg

hardtrainer

The language used in promoting Whole body Vibration is very misleading. The conclusions of one study on it state:
Whole body Vibration "and the reflexive muscle contraction it provokes, has the potential to induce strength gain in knee extensors of previously untrained females to the same extent as resistance training at moderate intensity". (from Delecluse et al., 2003 - Strength increase after whole-body vibration compared with resistance training. Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise, 35 (6), 1033–41)
That tells a very different story I think. WBV has the potential to induce strength gains comparable to traditional resistance training at moderate intensity.

I'm not saying it's bad, it's not, but its value should not be overestimated.

Boru.

You're both quite right in your statements but I disagree with the conclusions. Hanley yep all the same benefits of free wieghts, very true, no arguement there, but they are advantages of using that system, just like they are the advantages of performing body weight work or weight lifting - but you know my feelings on the health risks and damage casued by weight lifting, so obviously if those same benefits can be attained without the same risks then I'd be in favour of the risk free and more time efficent version.

As regards the Olympic wieght lifting coach, yes the results were very postivie and he in fact went on to specialise in this form of training.

As regards the "advantage" over weight lifting there isn't one - it's another tool you can use, nor more no less. Will it produce results yes. Are they comparable to the results produced by resistance training yes. They have less risks, but also less potential in terms of muscle size or growth - you won't be Ronnie Coleman using it.

As I've said many many times, there is not just one way of doing things, it isn't a question of which is the best method, just which is best for you.

Some people don't like lifting weigths, this provides an alternative, as can stability ball work, or bodyweight conditioning etc. The only added benefit, or "advantage" I see is reduced health risks as oppossed to weight lifting, and that for me and my clients is a big advantage.

I didn't know they put one in hercs. Cool. If you ever want me to go through the thing with you shout - we could do some iso lifts too if you want.

Hardtrainer, as I've mentiond above I'm not overestimating it, it's just another option, another tool that can be used to improve training, performance and fitness. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything...I'm more than happy to provide people with the sources from which they can draw they're own conclusions. That's what I did years ago. I examined the research, evaluated if it was applicable to me and my clients and from thier made my judgements.

Just to play devils advocate I am also aware of a small number of studies such as those published in the Scandinavian Journal Medicine Science Sports, 17, 12-17, 2007, that showed it didn't surpass weight lifting in terms of strength development. That's fine, I'm not asking it to. WBV training still however provides increases in strength. Personally I don't like the idea of utilising a system of training that encourages compression damage, stroke or heart failure and I can thankfully use other methods to obtain similar goals.

If your interested research and evaluate - can it add to your training? If it can great, use it. If not, then don't waste time on it when you could be find something that does.

The OP clearly enjoy's using it and is finding benefit from it in a safe and healthy manner, personally that's enough for me. Well that and confirming scientifc data.

dutch boy

question, i thought it was genetic where fat was stored and that targeting a specific area will only increase muscle mass and tone in that arean and its just a healthy controlled diet and cardio etc that can aid in the fat loss?

rubadub

Boru. wrote:

idunnoutellme is perfectly right. Did you guys forget that I was one of the first guys certified in the country in whole body vibrational training?

They were in Ireland recently, I mentioned it here- http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055153015
I thought you (Boru) might have seen it. I was also commenting on your quotes for forces you lift and was wondering how you calculate yours and track progress.

Are all these vibrating machines worth using? I imagine it has to be the correct frequency or something, and no doubt there are some models that are not doing much.

I thought the plates enchanced the workout, i.e. do pushups on it, or other training on it, since the OP is opposed to even pushups it sounds like they are simply standing on a vibrating plate, didnt think that would do much. I am guessing the vibration just basically forces people into involuntary isometric exercises- flexing the muscles to reduce the shaking effect.

What are your opinions on EMS/TENS machines?

Also what are the dangers of isometric exercises? I have tried them a few times and have felt that I could possibly overexert myself and do damage to a muscle.

idunnoutellme

Sure, well my friend told me about a vibtation plate in her gym and you have to pay 25 euro every time you want to use it additionally to your gym membership.
Honestly I have no gym membership as I have no time for it. I work 9 - 6 and take sometimes up to 2 hours to get home. So I was stuck for an idea how to tone my body.
The machine I've bought sessions for is called BodyWave, its in a beauty salon on Dorset st Naturelle (i dont work for them haha) and I'm paying 30€ per 10 min session. I work near to it, so I just go in on my lunch break and get a workout.
I must say I do feel the burn in my thighs and bum and sides after bein shaken about for 10 mins.
They have some information about it on their website - http://www.naturellesalon.com/index_files/Page729.htm
Their machine is also a standup sunbed, but you can use it for vibration only. Tannning is just an added extra I think.
And ye there are 3 different settings on it - anti cellulite, slimming and gym.
So far I did 1 anti-cellulite session and 2 slimming sessions which are a more intense shakin about

I'm sure the body vibration cannot replace exercise completely, but it is great for someone who has no time for other exercise, or additionally to exercise you do, or for those who cant put a big strain on their body but would like to get back into shape.

Transform

This is a complete bloody joke and a passing fad - yes its ok to us as part of a program but i have NEVER heard of or seen anyone EVER drop weight and get in shape through using this machine.

There is one in the gym i go to and its good for a nice calf and thigh massage thats about it - great for someone who has no time or cant put a strain on their body!!! What utter rubbish - i train a lady thats 68years old and some of the bussiest people around this time excuse is just that an excuse.

In 5 years time it will all go the way of any trend - gathering dust and a failed attempt at getting back to honest to good training and a good diet

arybvtcw0eolkf

idunnoutellme wrote:

Hi
I have recently started using a vibrating plate machine to try get rid of the cellulite in my body (a girl can dream), and every session is doing good things to my thighs and bum definitely, but the vibrations are not reaching my upper arms - which are pretty flabby - hate them so much.
So are there any exercises people can recomment I do to try tone them?

Your a girl, feck the exercises and LIPOSUCTION

Seriously, there's good advice above.

Viberating thingies are good for girlies too but sadly not for toning and fat loss.

ali.c

idunnoutellme wrote:

and I'm paying 30€ per 10 min session. I work near to it, so I just go in on my lunch break and get a workout.

That makes my gym membership look really reasonable, plus training is fun. That's like 3 euro a minute holy crap :eek:

hardtrainer

Boru. wrote:

...I don't like the idea of utilising a system of training that encourages compression damage, stroke or heart failure ...

I hope this isn't a reference to resistance training because that's simply not the case.
I'm not against WBV, nor did I say it was useless. I was merely saying that when talking about WBV and proposing it as, or as part of, a training system, the benefits of it should not be exaggerated. It has it's place, thats for sure, but claiming that it can achieve comparable results to resistance training without health risks is ludicrous. All activity carries with it risk. When it comes to resistance training, marathons, swimming, field sports, WBV, they all carry their own risks and if someone is predisposed to a particular condition, e.g. arthritis, coronary heart disease, etc, then some activities will carry increased risk for these people. To take the attitude that any one form of exercise is without health risk is being overly simplistic.

Boru.

dutch boy wrote:

question, i thought it was genetic where fat was stored and that targeting a specific area will only increase muscle mass and tone in that arean and its just a healthy controlled diet and cardio etc that can aid in the fat loss?

Your right and your wrong on that. Recent studies have shown spot reduction does in fact occur in the sites where the most muscualr activity occurs. However it's so small as to be insignificant. As regards WBV it does increase muscle mass, resulting in more claories being burnt and higher resting metabolism thus contributing to weight loss. Add in a controlled diet and cardio and you get an even better result.

rubadub, sorry I completley missed the thread you were reffering to. To quickly sumarise, yes I was involved in bring the Power Plate to Ireland, and introducing WBV. However since then a number of inferiror knock off products have been introduced of which I have little knowledge.

Regarding the extreme weights I lift that you mentioned, that's a completley seperate training process and methodology and has nothing to with WBV.

The plate can be used with static movments in in the same way isometrics can with the added benefit of producing additonal proprioceptive contraction. You can of course introduce moving exercises and even weight lifting.

EMS/TENS machines are a completley different thing. I actually use TENS for muscular rehabilitation in my medical clinic, however this isn't like an slendertone - the electrodes are connected to needles which are inserted into the muscle belly sometimes up to 1-1.5 inches. This is a proven and effective medical treatment.

As for the dangers of Iosmetrics - they're aren't many which is why I recomend them. In fact hte risks of injury are so low they are often used in physiotherapy and in rehab after cornary conditions.

As for the BODY Wave machine linked to by the OP I've never seen that before and in no way recommend it. The equipment I use is of the highest medical professional standard and is a serious piece of sports performance equipment.

Transform, your right it can't replace solid training, but I'm not asking it to, nor does it claim it should. As I've said before it's a useful tool, excellent for rehab work and a stabilisation training in addition to the benefits already listed. It's used by many professional sports and athletic programs as part of full program. It can also be hard bloody work - just try 1 legged pistol squats with 35lb kettlebells on a vibrating platform and not feel every inch of your body working. Like I said, it's just another option.

I too have elderly clients, many lift weights and do high intensity interval training etc. Other use this - it's a question of goals and individual preference and I'd rather a client train in WBV and get results they are pleased with then do nothing at all and let their health deteriorate.

hardtrainer, I was refferring to resistance training, as the research supports it is the case. I have debated and presented the information regarding that numerous times on this board. Feel free to run a search and pull the medical studies I have sited. While many of my training methods may be controversial I can assure you each of them has been subjected to rigours testing, examination and scrutiny with full analysis of all relevant and available medical and scientific studies. Keep in mind that in my position as both a Personal Trainer and Medical Professional with my own private practice I must maintain extremely high standards and as such must referrance all my recomendations with releveant supporting studies.

The risks associated with WBV training are much smaller in comparrsion to the gains that can be achieved using that training, as opposed to traditional weight lifting. It's not without risk, just that it's minimal as near insignificant as oppossed to many other forms of training. To engage in those other pursuits is a matter of personal opinion.

I hope that clears up any misunderstanding.

hardtrainer

I'm sorry boru, but you're taking things out of context and the studies that you have cited in the past on boards do not support the claim that resistance training encourages compression damage, stroke or heart failure. Saying so is misleading and as wrong as saying that all supplements are steroids.

I do not wish to be drawn into an argument where you claim one thing is the case and cite a number of select studies to support your argument. Science research is about the sum of all, not the sum of a selected few.

It should be noted that yes, you are a personal trainer and medical professional, but people should also keep in mind that you are selling a product. This represents a very clear conflict of interests in my opinion.

Transform

Overall, i would put money on the op NOT looking any different in 6 months time unless she does something with her diet and applying a decent training program. Quick fix junkie

Finally, i couldn't give a you know what about doing pistols on a vibrating plate with kettlebells. Yes its more advanced and really stimulates the muscles and i would get more results for my legs through front squats, lunges etc

As has been said so well before The vibrating plate is an ok tool but its certainly NOT a stand alone piece to use for getting in shape.

Colm_OReilly

Oh man,

Studies done with sedentary people will always show an improvement for Pete's sake!

Now, as regards the dangers of weightlifting, where exactly is the prove of this? Are we talking in comparison to other sports - because soccer and running have shown to have more injuries per participant hour than weight training, and (99% sure) the sport of weightlifting and powerlifting.

If someone isn't training weights or bodyweight exercises, how are they to develop the muscularskeletal control to keep their bodies moving correctly and staying healthy?

€30 for 10 minutes, holy crap! I guess what they say is true - People will do anything to lose weight, except diet and exercise. I suppose forking out that money creates a cost-worth delusion though. If you've invested so much time/energy it must be worthwhile.

OP, do Pull ups (I'm sure there's an assisted machine in your gym) and Dips, push ups, shoulder presses, bench presses. You will not develop unsightly man arms.

Colm

rubadub

Boru. wrote:

As for the BODY Wave machine linked to by the OP I've never seen that before and in no way recommend it. The equipment I use is of the highest medical professional standard and is a serious piece of sports performance equipment.

The sad thing is people will just think they are all the same and be forking out that crazy money for nothing.

BodyWave obtains extraordinary results in performance, strength and energy. Its action stimulates all the chemical functions inside the muscle making it more tonic and defined. In only 10 minutes, muscular strength increases by 30%.

1% stronger for every euro, not too shabby

Hanley

Colm_OReilly wrote:

Oh man,

I guess what they say is true - People will do anything to lose weight, except diet and exercise.

I must say, I laughed my fcuking arse off at that one!

The FitnessDock

Colm_OReilly wrote:

I suppose forking out that money creates a cost-worth delusion though. If you've invested so much time/energy it must be worthwhile.

If you've invested so much time/energy/money in getting certified to train clients with it, it must also be worthwhile to do & say everything possible to convince others that it's worth paying serious money for them to use it........;)