So who's gonna take it?

Danie Gerber

Now that we know who the last eight are and had ample opporunity to see how all the teams are playing, who's going to be able to stop the AB's?

gosplan

As everyone's been saying, if the AB's don't win, it won't be because anyone stopped them but rather because they choked.

IMO Argentina in the quarters would have been an absolute nightmare game for them - nothing to win, everything to lose and all that.

SA has players that can turn a game around in an instant and will be tough but I think both they and Aus are rather known quantities to the AB's.

The French at home and having been constantly embarassed by the AB's over the last few years could put up a serious fight.

Australia because they have the mentality and theyre one of the few teams who dont have the awe factor when it comes to the Blacks.

lisbon_lions

gosplan, i'm 99% sure the French have to play the AB's in Cardiff, which takes that edge away somewhat.

kevpants

The Aussies can stop them. Because the AB's fear them and the Aussies have exactly ZERO respect for them. Matt Williams gave an insight into it during one of the world cup previews, he refuses to call them the All Blacks, "They're New Zealand, ooooh look at me in my big scary black uniform, we're the All Blacks ooooooh"

RobAMerc

Can the Argies beat the Boks for an All Black - Argies final ?

davyjose

Nobody - they'll walk away with it!!

subfreq

RSA for me.

New Zealand are struggling to dominate line outs against mediocre opponents and don't quality in this area. South Africa have an awesome line out, a pack that has no fear of the AB's and a back line coming into super form.

I think France will get hockeyed by them and they will sneak past the Aussies but RSA to lift the cup would be my prediction.

jank

subfreq wrote:

RSA for me.

New Zealand are struggling to dominate line outs against mediocre opponents and don't quality in this area. South Africa have an awesome line out, a pack that has no fear of the AB's and a back line coming into super form.

I think France will get hockeyed by them and they will sneak past the Aussies but RSA to lift the cup would be my prediction.

Yea South Africa for me too.
Some super players on that team. They will easily get the the final imo.

siochain

RSA are the one to give the AB a run, fingers crossed backed them months go at 7's

Stev_o

Argentina for me

There the ONLY team out there that actually wants to win this world cup out of pride everyone else is under pressure because if they dont win they know they will be exhiled from their country Ie New Zealand

I have a theory about the mentality about the AB. The amount of players leaving for Europe is extremely high and there is alot of young players going to, my take on this is that they dont believe they can win and are making sure they arent staying in New Zealand for the backlash once it happens

Argentina at the moment are playing the best rugby. Suffocate the opposition of ideas and possession by making them kick back to you and then they repeat until they know its on and then they have 5 phases of the best rugby in the world that no opposition can seem to stop. Its great!

jank

Stev_o wrote:

Argentina for me

There the ONLY team out there that actually wants to win this world cup out of pride everyone else is under pressure because if they dont win they know they will be exhiled from their country Ie New Zealand

I have a theory about the mentality about the AB. The amount of players leaving for Europe is extremely high and there is alot of young players going to, my take on this is that they dont believe they can win and are making sure they arent staying in New Zealand for the backlash once it happens

Argentina at the moment are playing the best rugby. Suffocate the opposition of ideas and possession by making them kick back to you and then they repeat until they know its on and then they have 5 phases of the best rugby in the world that no opposition can seem to stop. Its great!

If Argentina Kick to the NZ back three they will rip them apart on the counter.
Plus there will be more then a match for them at the breakdown.

davyjose

Stev_o wrote:

my take on this is that they dont believe they can win
!

Would have to strongly disagree with this statement. I genuinely believe that Argentina won't even Make the final, but if they do, they'll learn what a truly World Class team is (not that 6N crap)

Stev_o

jank wrote:

If Argentina Kick to the NZ back three they will rip them apart on the counter.
Plus there will be more then a match for them at the breakdown.

BS. WE said that TWICE during the group stages and BOTH times we were wrong.

AB cant rip them apart when they are faced with a wall of players.Argentina have the pack to take them, have a better out half and centers

davyjose

Stev_o wrote:

BS. WE said that TWICE during the group stages and BOTH times we were wrong.

In fairness, New Zealand have a slightly more impressive back three than we have (had).

Stev_o wrote:

AB cant rip them apart when they are faced with a wall of players.Argentina have the pack to take them, have a better out half and centers

A bold statement - better Inside centre, maybe. I don't think anyone has a better out-half than New Zealand, certainly not a statement I'd make after a couple of good games there, compared to a guy people have being hailing for years as the best out-half in the game.
I certainly don't see the Kiwi pack folding in the same way we did. Sure, they did a job on France - so did New Zealand!
The Kiwi's Line-out is their weak-point, but I saw nothing special about the Argies' TBH. I honestly don't see them troubling the all-blacks for more than 20 mins.

jmayo

Stev_o wrote:

BS. WE said that TWICE during the group stages and BOTH times we were wrong.

AB cant rip them apart when they are faced with a wall of players.Argentina have the pack to take them, have a better out half and centers

Just because Argentina beat a highly overrated totally underperforming Ireland, does not put them in the same league as the All Blacks or the other two tri nations teams. They would probably come in just behind Australia, alongside France at the moment.
They also beat a misfiring very nervous French team so how great was that victory. Fair dues to them they are passing the 6 nations teams by and will be more of a match for the tri nations teams than the likes of us or Scotland.

The idea that Argentina are world beaters all goes back to misconception that Northern Hemisphere teams are a match for the Southern teams.
England had a great pack with good outhalf for last WC and went on and won it in 2003. The French don't appear to have mental strength or they put one great match peformance in that screws them for following match.

One Northern win in 5 WCs.

davyjose

jmayo wrote:

The idea that Argentina are world beaters all goes back to misconception that Northern Hemisphere teams are a match for the Southern teams.

Bingo, you got it right there!!!!

Danie Gerber

Everyone backing Argentina against SA and the AB's in the final should get off the happy pills. Arg have never beaten the Boks. They don't have the fire-power or the BMT for semi-finals or finals.

they've played well and they will beat Scotland. But that's that lads.

Australia have BMT, loads of it. They'll take the Poms apart and will give the AB's a massive game in the semi's. In that match anything can happen. Oz beat NZ earlier this year in the 3N, not because NZ choked, but because on the day they played better rugby.

The final will be the same story. It will be between NZ or Oz and the Boks. Except Oz and NZ will have come through a massivematch the weekend before the final.. Might make a difference.

I think SA have as good a chance as ever to take it.

Argentina? Nope.

CJhaughey

If I was a SA supporter I would be very concerned at the prospect of facing Argentina, their scrum and setpiece is a match for the SA pack and the rest of the backline is capable of dealing with the Saffa's look how easily the Tongans closed SA down, admittedly the team was not full strength but even when the manager saw fit to stick on the Percy and co the final result was within 5 points.
Argentina play a game that can suffocate teams as has been shown so far.

gadaven

rsa and australia are the only ones able to beat the blacks in my opinion...
argentina, certainly not,it's not the same level of playing.
England is always a special team with a strong mentality and a strong jonny wilkinson... this gentleman can always be very dangerous.....
and as a french man i can remember the semi final in 1999 and hope...

davyjose

TBH, anyone who says they think Argentina can win it, are just falling into the same hype-trap that we all fell into over Ireland!!!

dc69

im so tempted to put a few bob on france to beat nz,i just think they are coming back into form,and nz havent been tested yet and could be a close match,also the rediculous odds are an incentive lol

Stev_o

davyjose wrote:

In fairness, New Zealand have a slightly more impressive back three than we have (had).

A bold statement - better Inside centre, maybe. I don't think anyone has a better out-half than New Zealand, certainly not a statement I'd make after a couple of good games there, compared to a guy people have being hailing for years as the best out-half in the game.
I certainly don't see the Kiwi pack folding in the same way we did. Sure, they did a job on France - so did New Zealand!
The Kiwi's Line-out is their weak-point, but I saw nothing special about the Argies' TBH. I honestly don't see them troubling the all-blacks for more than 20 mins.

Ah here now im reading this and thinking to myself "Bloody hell has every Irish supporter now completely erased the mass of sayings that went on "Our backline will thrash New Zealand no problem there midfield is there weakness"

Like im not going to deny that New Zealand have a very talented backline but to be honest with the ball they get from the forwards i think that any of the Top 10 could produce the same result.

Then ill raise the point of Carter. Ill admit i dont like him and i dont rate him as the No1 Out Half in the world. Reason being is that he LIVES of decent ball i mean bloody hell he NEVER gets bad slow ball with the forwards he has in front of him in contrast to every other out half in the world who has a mixture. And ill prove my point with this.

England DID have the best pack in 2003 and Wilko lived of some of the best ball he could have ever got hence how he stamped down his place as one of the best out halfs in the world.

When Carter has come under pressure he fails to amaze and he it just makes me feel that he cant handly bad ball at all

ROCKMAN

Am I right with this as the line up and routes to finals

France v All Blacks
England v Australia winners playing each other

RSA V Fiji
Argentina v Scotland winners again play

If so

I can only see a RSA V All Blacks Final
with Australia v Argentina third place play off

FINAL ORDER

1ST ALL BLACKS

2ND RSA

3RD AUSTRALIA
sorry no great shocks there (for once going with my head and not heart)

Ps Team OF Tournament Argentina

Pinetree Boy

Like im not going to deny that New Zealand have a very talented backline but to be honest with the ball they get from the forwards i think that any of the Top 10 could produce the same result.

Then ill raise the point of Carter. Ill admit i dont like him and i dont rate him as the No1 Out Half in the world. Reason being is that he LIVES of decent ball i mean bloody hell he NEVER gets bad slow ball with the forwards he has in front of him in contrast to every other out half in the world who has a mixture. And ill prove my point with this.

BUT he will always get decent ball.

Pinetree Boy

The ABs have to get past France first. If they do this they will go into the semis and finals with a psychological edge having disposed of one of the big guns. As a Kiwi- SA don't hold much fear. They are a good side but we know them well and dealt with close to their top pack in South Africa this year. For me the Aussies are always the big hurdle. We can beat them right across the park and still lose on the scoreboard- they are without a doubt the cleverest team in the world.

nacho libre

Pinetree Boy wrote:

The ABs have to get past France first. If they do this they will go into the semis and finals with a psychological edge having disposed of one of the big guns. As a Kiwi- SA don't hold much fear. They are a good side but we know them well and dealt with close to their top pack in South Africa this year. For me the Aussies are always the big hurdle. We can beat them right across the park and still lose on the scoreboard- they are without a doubt the cleverest team in the world.

Yes, that's why i'm going with Australia to win it.

davyjose

Stev_o wrote:

Like im not going to deny that New Zealand have a very talented backline but to be honest with the ball they get from the forwards i think that any of the Top 10 could produce the same result.

Exactly - including ours - IF we got the forward ball. That's not the point though. Where the NZ backline is very very very strong is in their back three, and the ability to utilise the high ball (kinda what we hoped from Murphy)

Stev_o wrote:

Then ill raise the point of Carter. Ill admit i dont like him and i dont rate him as the No1 Out Half in the world. Reason being is that he LIVES of decent ball i mean bloody hell he NEVER gets bad slow ball with the forwards he has in front of him in contrast to every other out half in the world who has a mixture. And ill prove my point with this.

Doesn't mean he's worse than a guy (Hernandez) who has played a handful of times here and has also had a strong pack in front of him.

Stev_o wrote:

England DID have the best pack in 2003 and Wilko lived of some of the best ball he could have ever got hence how he stamped down his place as one of the best out halfs in the world.

Just want to pick you up on this - England are a completely different side with JW in the side. And he can still do the basics very very well - he rarely misses touch, or tackles (if only we could say that about ROG), and he's one of the best place-kickers in the game (behind Paterson).

Danie Gerber

wrote:

Just want to pick you up on this - England are a completely different side with JW in the side. And he can still do the basics very very well - he rarely misses touch, or tackles (if only we could say that about ROG), and he's one of the best place-kickers in the game (behind Paterson).

You DID say that about ROG...

bill_ashmount

I thought the All Blacks would win it before the tournament started but now I have a sneaky feeling the aussies might win it.

big b

Jaysus lads, ye're as bad as that lot on TV3!

Only 1 mention (& that was in passing) that Argentina still have to beat Scotland. Very disrespectful, and there'd be plenty giving out if the positions were reversed!

Have ye not seen already that there's no guarantees in this tourney?

Stev_o

big b wrote:

Jaysus lads, ye're as bad as that lot on TV3!

Only 1 mention (& that was in passing) that Argentina still have to beat Scotland. Very disrespectful, and there'd be plenty giving out if the positions were reversed!

Have ye not seen already that there's no guarantees in this tourney?

Sorry have you seen Scotland against Italy?? They did NOTHING they just fed of Italy's numerous penalty's. Scotland dont have anything to match Argentina's pack or backline

Danie Gerber

Argentina haven't done anything pectacular so ar either lads. They're solid but they won't beat the big teams Oz, NZ, Boks. Anybody that thinks otherwise is deluded.

MooseJam

New Zealand to win, yawn

homah_7ft

ROCKMAN wrote:

Am I right with this as the line up and routes to finals

France v All Blacks
England v Australia winners playing each other

RSA V Fiji
Argentina v Scotland winners again play

If so

I can only see a RSA V All Blacks Final
with Australia v Argentina third place play off

FINAL ORDER

1ST ALL BLACKS

2ND RSA

3RD AUSTRALIA
sorry no great shocks there (for once going with my head and not heart)

Ps Team OF Tournament Argentina

Err wouldn't that make NZ the team of the tournament?

Argentina will be blown away and NZ to win more easily than people seem to think here.

davyjose

Danie Gerber wrote:

Just want to pick you up on this - England are a completely different side with JW in the side. And he can still do the basics very very well - he rarely misses touch, or tackles (if only we could say that about ROG), and he's one of the best place-kickers in the game (behind Paterson).

You DID say that about ROG...

LOL I did, I know. But to be honest what happened ROG was bizarre. We have seen Wilkinson step up to the plate before, and although he isn't what he was, he probably won't fall apart (for a start you won't find much dirt in the press on Wilko, and believe me, the press have tried). But I was as surprised as anyone when ROG had such a lousy tournament(and my aside about ROG was based on very recent facts).

Danie Gerber

In fairness, I thought ROG would step up to the plate myself. At times he's been nothing special, but at the very least he's always been solid. Wouldn't bet a cent against him to miss a penalty kick to touch before this tourno. Now I'm not at all certain.

Johny has lost alot of that unbeatable aura he had. He misses goal more often and his kicking out of hand seems to be overelaborate at times as well.

Shan75

I backed Australia before the tournament started at 12-1 and haven't seen anything yet to change my mind.It would not be the biggest surprise for me to see France beat New Zealand.Australia against South Africa in the final.

dfx-

I think and have thought for a while that Australia are the team to win it.

I also think that if RSA were to put together three successive games where they played even close to their best, they'd win it, but you can never trust them to do that and the game against Tonga has reinforced that - such a frustrating side to watch :mad:

philstar

the only ones that can stop the all blacks, are the all blacks themselves.......the pressure and expectation they are under is unbeliveable.

so the question is ....will they choke??

AlphaMale 3OO

Argentina will be blown away? By who exactly? It pisses me off so much that for the last 8 years they have constantly beaten the "bigger" teams and are still paid lip service by people who dont really know what they are talking about. Lots of people are suddenly surprised that they have 'just arrived' on the scene. They are a match for everyone in this competition, even the All-Blacks. How can France be a match for NZ and Argentina not be? Aussie are now out and the Saffa's are overated, but still good. Outside of NZ, anyone could make the final.

nacho libre

South Africa.

mikeruurds

forbesii wrote:

Argentina will be blown away? By who exactly? It pisses me off so much that for the last 8 years they have constantly beaten the "bigger" teams and are still paid lip service by people who dont really know what they are talking about. Lots of people are suddenly surprised that they have 'just arrived' on the scene. They are a match for everyone in this competition, even the All-Blacks. How can France be a match for NZ and Argentina not be? Aussie are now out and the Saffa's are overated, but still good. Outside of NZ, anyone could make the final.

They have never beaten SA before.

But there's always a first time

homah_7ft

homah_7ft wrote:

Err wouldn't that make NZ the team of the tournament?

Argentina will be blown away and NZ to win more easily than people seem to think here.

Would anyone like some egg? I've got plenty going spare on my face.

Erin Go Brath

It'll be a France/SA final now i'm pretty sure.

Think the Argies have had a great tournament, but I can't see them beating SA who have looked like the best team out there imo.

France surely will beat England now. The only possible way i see England getting through is if France mentally implode. France have way too much firepower for England who will be relying on JW to dig them out of a hole as usual. If JW converts all his chances it could be a pretty close call though. Still think France will run in a few tries, whereas its hard to see where England will get them from.

SA to beat France in the Final.

Ghost Train

Would like to see France Argentina final, even just to see if France can beat them when given a second chance

I'd say France for the win, but really after watching the semifinals, anything can happen and any of the four team have a fair chance if things go their way

connundrum

1/3 of my pre tournament prediction has come true.. France finished 2nd in the group.

I also predicted for South Africa to take it, and that hasn't changed. I need to make it 2/3

Linford

France had a far tougher match than England in the quarters. It might show next Saturday.

SA were scared by Fiji, but they were able to change tactics in the last 10/15 minutes to keep the ball with the forwards and this resulted in two tries. I think they are the most professional team out there, with quality at every position. I think they would beat France and we saw what they did against England. Argentina on the other hand will be a tougher opponent for SA and I am looking forward to a very exciting match.

I think both matches could go either way.

Danie Gerber

Always interesting and sometimes embarrassing to look back on these threads to see what predictions people had. man, I was so wrong about AB's and Aus. They both choked... Still think SA will take it but not putting any money on anything anymore!

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

LordSutch

England to destroy the French & then go into the final & do the Bizz for the second time in four years (against South Africa)?

We have still to see Sackey, Wilkinson & Robinson in full flow, and its only a matter of time before the whole England team start to fire on all cylinders at the same time. and when it happens it will be awsome

I for one, will be supporting our neighbouring Home Nation ..................

C'mon England.