I want an Alfa but...

easyontheeye

my mechanic told me he wouldnt service one... and hes sound as a pound!

Anan1

You don't want your mechanic to service it, you want an Alfa specialist.

easyontheeye

Anan1 wrote:

You don't want your mechanic to service it, you want an Alfa specialist.

really? they sound like a car that required so much effort to own...why do people bother

Anan1

Because some people like driving.

Esel

easyontheeye wrote:

my mechanic told me he wouldnt service one... and hes sound as a pound!

You got your post wrong - it should read:

my mechanic told me he wouldn't service one... proves he's sound as a pound!:D

OKenora

Most mechanics won't service an alfa for a simple reason. They take too much effort to get right and have parts on them that many mechanics fail to understand the workings of.

Get a guy that knows fiat/alfas, let him service it and forget about the oil change monkey you already have.

siralfalot

easyontheeye wrote:

really? they sound like a car that required so much effort to own...why do people bother

if thats your attitude to motoring, then maybe you should consider a nice Corrolla, Alfas are for people who actually enjoy looking after, and driving a car

nastysimon

Anan1 wrote:

Because some people like driving.

That might have been true of older Alfas, but current ones are quite outclassed in this area, particularly in the handling department.

OP, in terms of reliability, Alfas have a bad rep. It's not deserved, but similarly they aren't up there with Toyota either.

Fey!

siralfalot wrote:

if thats your attitude to motoring, then maybe you should consider a nice Corrolla, Alfas are for people who actually enjoy looking after, and driving a car

He only asked a question, as in "Is it worth it". After all, he's considering getting one.

No need for you to be so obnoxious in your reply.

cjt156

easyontheeye wrote:

my mechanic told me he wouldnt service one... and hes sound as a pound!

Your mechanic obviously doesn't have much confidence in his own abilities. I'd steer well clear TBH.

Owen

cjt156 wrote:

Your mechanic obviously doesn't have much confidence in his own abilities. I'd steer well clear TBH.

I don't think it's that so much as he's afraid any potential long term issues with the car will be blamed on his workmanship. We all know that there are great Alfas out there, and we all know there's a lot of bad ones, particularly early 156's ... I should know, I had one.

I guess this guys is just covering his ass though, because on the off chance it is a dodgy 156, or other Alfa, the OP gets an oil service, and then 3k miles later the car won't start, well then, the Mechanic won't look the best, now will he? I can't blame the guy either, why draw headaches on yourself when you don't have to? Especially if he's self employed, there are more productive ways of earning his money and spending his time.

barryfitz

cjt156 wrote:

Your mechanic obviously doesn't have much confidence in his own abilities. I'd steer well clear TBH.

I wouldnt say its so much as he lacks confidence, more like he doesnt want to spend half his day on a service. Seriously, some of these car companys dont make life easy for a mechanic (I think sometimes they forget that some one has to service these things every ~10k miles) and strip half the electrics out to change a fookin filter!!! :mad: :mad:

cantdecide

cjt156 wrote:

Your mechanic obviously doesn't have much confidence in his own abilities. I'd steer well clear TBH.

That's also what I thought.

Alfas are beautiful but they're not bullet-proof. They are one of the few ordinary car you can have that give you that warm feeling to drive (-not because they're overheating-). Generally speaking, no cars are unreliable any more unless they're abused. The odd MAF, lambda, knock sensor... so what- virtually every car gets those things eventually.

If you're absolutely to the pin of your collar at the end of every month and you're borrowed up tho the eyeballs to buy it, maybe you shouldn't get one. But if you haven't blown the bank to buy it and you want a fanciable car at a good price- the pros outweigh the cons

On the other hand, Toyotas are horrible IMO. They're reliability is exaggerated. Noisy, cheap cabin materials and feel like they're made of tin.

You kind of have to sell your soul to own one IMO.

Owen

cantdecide wrote:

Generally speaking, no cars are unreliable any more unless they're abused. The odd MAF, lambda, knock sensor... so what- virtually every car gets those things eventually.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. I've owned an Alfa, on top of this, I had one of my best mates working for a FIAT/Alfa dealership, and I've traded a few in in my time. They're not well built, and they're not reliable, and resale values show this - my mate's garage would take bets on when a new car would be back for warranty work. Some Alfas are better than others, but the 156 was an unmitigated disaster ... cheap unreliable bosch electronics really left the cars down, and as a result of that (along with many other issues) left owners with a very bitter taste in their mouths.

They're still fantastic cars to drive, but like all things Italian, especially italian women, they look fantastic, but end up being high maintenance, and after a few years, you'd be embarrassed to show it to your friends.

prospect

nastysimon wrote:

That might have been true of older Alfas, but current ones are quite outclassed in this area, particularly in the handling department.

LOL compared to what?

I am driving my Dads 159 at the minute and it is one of the best handling cars I have ever driven.

bazz26

I reckon the OP's mechanic makes a nice living as it is off regular work on regular cars and doesn't need the potential hassel. Alfa Romeos are high maintenance and require alot of TLC from their owner as well as the specialist servicing it that most other cars don't.

I'm thinking the mechanic is at least being honest with the OP and not one of these cowboys who will have a go at it end up making a bad situation worse and then drop it like a hot potato.

I wouldn't let it put you off from buying an Alfa Romeo, just be aware what is involved in owning one and have a specialist who knows all about them maintain it for you.

galwaytt

ned78 wrote:

... cheap unreliable bosch electronics really left the cars down..

interesting that electrics are still proving the Italians achilles' heel, and that that heel - Bosch - is German..........

Which goes to show why German cars are now also to be filed along with - Alfa's, if you like - as similarly, electronically, 'unstable'. As my local guy says - 'thank god for German cars.......otherwise I'd have nothing to fix'.

Interestingly, as per my 'handle' here, TT's are similarly plagued with electrical issues, and one in particular - the dashpod.........which is made by.......Magnetti Marelli.....:rolleyes: The pic on their homepage even extols the fact.......(bottom, r.h. corner pods is the TT one...)

Owen

galwaytt wrote:

interesting that electrics are still proving the Italians achilles' heel, and that that heel - Bosch - is German..........

Which goes to show why German cars are now also to be filed along with - Alfa's, if you like - as similarly, electronically, 'unstable'. As my local guy says - 'thank god for German cars.......otherwise I'd have nothing to fix'.

That's an incredibly simplistic version of reality. Just because something is made in Germany doesn't imply perfection. There will always be companies in every country who just don't do quality control like their more expensive counterparts. Cheap is cheap, no matter where it's bought.

And you also seem to forget, the likes of FIAT and Alfa are the people who design the electronics. They then outsource the manufacturing. So it's a compund issue ... poor electronics not tested thorougly at the design house, and then even shoddier practises at the bulk manufacturing facility where using cheap connectors, and inferior components lead to long term issues.

galwaytt

ned78 wrote:

That's an incredibly simplistic version of reality. Just because something is made in Germany doesn't imply perfection. There will always be companies in every country who just doing do quality control like their more expensive counterparts. Cheap is cheap, no matter where it's bought.

simplistic, maybe, inaccurate, not necessarily. From personal experience, you can put the following cars on that list: TT x 2, 320d Touring, E200K. All fabulous cars, all nice to own, all had issues of one kind or another. Vast majority electrical.

btw, you don't see any irony on your comment on German not implying perfection, and your offering of 'the ultimate driving machine' ?? Like, the ultimate is, no longer perfection ??;)

Owen

galwaytt wrote:

btw, you don't see any irony on your comment on German not implying perfection, and your offering of 'the ultimate driving machine' ?? Like, the ultimate is, no longer perfection ??;)

I'm getting really sick of boardsies using lines like this every other week directed at me. I'm entitled to my own motoring views just like the rest of you.

prospect

ned78 wrote:

I'm getting really sick of boardsies using lines like this every other week directed at me. I'm entitled to my own motoring views just like the rest of you.

Thats true.

I am an Alfisti, and I know Ned is a BMW fan.
I have nearly always found his comments to be fair, with a leaning to BMW/MINI, which is understandable giving he is a fan. As much as I would like to think my comments are fair, with a leaning to Fiat/Alfa, considering I am a fan.

Maybe we should go back on topic.

Owen

prospect wrote:

Maybe we should go back on topic.

Amen! I think the OP should, if he's considering an Alfa, first of all tell us which one he's going for. That way, we can all give input, positive or negative. And of course OP, if you are looking at one, inspect the service history thoroughly, even get the AA to check it out.

Anan1

It seems clear to me that the OP would be better off forgetting about the idea of buying an Alfa.

cantdecide

If that were entirely true, how do they stay in business?? I know of 2 big companies that have FIATs and Alfas as their company cars.

nastysimon

prospect wrote:

LOL compared to what?

I am driving my Dads 159 at the minute and it is one of the best handling cars I have ever driven.

BMW 3-series and Ford Mondeo are both a league (or so) ahead. BTW, it's not a good idea to surf the net while driving

prospect

nastysimon wrote:

it's not a good idea to surf the net while driving

LOL



I have posted this before, but it seems it requires another link:

From GERMAN telly:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zON4bWsl2Ek


I cannot comment on the new Mondeo (the recently deceased mondeo was a boat compared to the 159), as I have not yet driven it.

junkyard

In my experience Alfa's are one of the most awkward difficult and badly designed cars to work on, I know what your mechanic is talking about. If you want to spend your weekends working on them, fine, but if you want to get from A to B buy something practical like a Focus or a Corolla.

easyontheeye

barryfitz wrote:

I wouldnt say its so much as he lacks confidence, more like he doesnt want to spend half his day on a service. Seriously, some of these car companys dont make life easy for a mechanic (I think sometimes they forget that some one has to service these things every ~10k miles) and strip half the electrics out to change a fookin filter!!! :mad: :mad:

lol he told me that in 25 years on the job the only car to make him work a saturday was an alfa romeo 156...they guy is a great mechanic and i think its good to have a mechanic you can trust and isnt a cowboy.

I suppose my current maybes are
celica,
focus,
altezza,
astra sports hatch

junkyard

Also remember, it's your the one who'll be paying the bill at the end of the day and who's car will be off the road.

bazz26

easyontheeye wrote:

lol he told me that in 25 years on the job the only car to make him work a saturday was an alfa romeo 156...they guy is a great mechanic and i think its good to have a mechanic you can trust and isnt a cowboy.

I suppose my current maybes are
celica,
focus,
altezza,
astra sports hatch

The best advice is to drive everyone of them and see which one you like the best.

barryfitz

Here Here!.

cantdecide

I'd be surprised if you didn't go with altezza though. I'd have one- it's the pick of the litter really.

prospect

easyontheeye wrote:

celica,
focus,
altezza,
astra sports hatch

You have a full thread on an MR-2... why is it not on this list?

easyontheeye

prospect wrote:

You have a full thread on an MR-2... why is it not on this list?

was just curious about what people had to say about them, i was in one before, quite pokey, lovely to drive, but theres just something not quite right about it to look at. it reminds of the MG convertible

Do you think Alfa's will ever recover from the bad rep they have? Is it possible the 159, and newer models are actually well built?

bloke

junkyard wrote:

In my experience Alfa's are one of the most awkward difficult and badly designed cars to work on, I know what your mechanic is talking about.

Agreed. To change the oil filter on a 156 V6 involves dropping the suspension and/or moving several A/C pipes! Changing the cam belt needs specialist tools and many things are generally just fiddly to access. Some training in gymnastics is probably useful for all budding Alfa mechanics. This is why I think many mechanics will steer clear and you're best going to an Alfa specialist familiar with the "funnies". Then again I think some mechanics might just believe the bar stool Alfa wisdom a little too much or have last seen an Alfa 20+ years ago when they dissolved on contact with water ;-)

Having owned a couple of Alfas over 50,000 miles or so, the following might be of note:

• They never let me down badly - never stuck by the side of the road and any failures were due to general wear and tear and haven't seemed any more frequent then friends driving other cars (with the exception of Toyota Corolla / Starlets!)
• The electrics were fine with the exception of a MAF sensor failure - gradual - and commonly found on any high mileage car
• The engines tend to use oil and must be checked regularly to avoid expensive failures. I've been told it's because they are a "loose" engine by design - more free revving. In any case they're *not* for people who don't want to open the bonnet at all between services.
• Cambelt changes (and servicing in general) need to be done on time - I will be buying another Alfa but only if it has a full documented SH.
• Parts are scarily expensive - as are Alfa specialists - but this is partly down to the increased labour (2-3 hours for aforementioned oil change ;-) )

Why do I drive them? Well thanks to the (undeserved IMO) reputation for unreliability, the (deserved) reputation for complexity and parts prices, and the conservative attitudes of the Irish motoring public - they are *dirt* cheap secondhand. The cost differential not only makes up for increased servicing costs, but also for increased fuel consumption and tax meaning you can get a decent sized engine too. So financially you're better off, or at worst similar to, the person beside you in a similar age golf / corolla etc., and have a car that looks, sounds and drives better (my [firmly held] opinion ). They will boast of €200 euro services compared to your €600 service, but paid 30-40% more for a similar age / mileage car.

Anyway, I'm probably a bit biased but hopefully my attempt at some honest feedback from an experienced Alfa owner might help the OP in his decision one way or another. If he does decide to buy an Alfa - there are two very useful resources to know about. Gerry Campbell (TI Autos Alfa specialist) and the forums at alfaowner.com

Each to their own - Alfas are perfect for me, corollas are perfect for others!

Sonnenblumen

cantdecide wrote:

If that were entirely true, how do they stay in business?? I know of 2 big companies that have FIATs and Alfas as their company cars.

Fish'n'Chips very popular where you are?:D


Seems there are more fans than customers, why not organise a get together, share experiences and better still share solutions, and who knows, may be you might end up with the perfect italian driving machine with normal car reliability?

Volvoboy

Dont we already have 27,082 threads about alfa romeo's?





-VB-

Hotwheels

if you are going to buy an Alfa, get a diesel, cheaper to run servicing wise and longer interval for T-Belts. get one with a full history...

As for the 159 the build quality is excellent, and the 1.9 JTDm and excellent engine...With a new one on the way with 188BHP and talks of a 3.0 V6 JTDm 308BHP coming along soon...

So if ya want an excellent 159 with full history with about 60K miles, talk to me next April

best of luck with what ever you buy

E92

galwaytt wrote:

Which goes to show why German cars are now also to be filed along with - Alfa's, if you like - as similarly, electronically, 'unstable'. As my local guy says - 'thank god for German cars.......otherwise I'd have nothing to fix'.

While I think you're exaggerting there, nevertheless you have a very valid point and that is that German engineering is nothing like what it used to be.

In the 80s and even right up to the late 90s, VAG cars were as solid as a rock. The 94-02 Polo was the most reliable car in its class, and that included Japmobiles.Old Mercs are even better, I've posted several times about my trips in old Merc taixs on the continent with ridiculous mileages and the cars are still going as good as they day they were delivered as a new car.

I've been in W202 C-classes with nearly 500,000 miles and the engine still runs perfectly, I've been in W126 E-classes with 1.3 million km on the clock. Thats 800,000 miles!

Then there was the venerable Opels, which were always considered to be great cars for those on a tighter budget. The Kadett was meant to be a great car in its day(though that day was a quarter of a century ago).

And not forgetting BMW, with their E34(88-96) 5 series, considered the best made exec car of the time.

But the Germans have been resting on their laurels, VAG and in particluar Mercedes.

A modern Merc is an absolute nightmare. I've lost count of the stories I've heard of the woes of the modern Merc. I've been in modern Mercs which were only a few months old and already they were rattling. The W203 C class is a very badly built car IMHO. I've been in a W211 and it had suspension clonking at only 120,000 km! In all my 10 years of being interested in cars, and actually knowing something about them, I've never come across suspension clonking!

A modern VAG is not that much better. The current Passat is prone to the electric handbrake not releasing for instance. Several posters have mentioned this and other problems with modern cars from VAG.

BMWs are still meant to be ok, apart from problems with iDrive and the EML problem. They also suffer from engine trouble too, but thats usually because people tend to interpret the 'Ultimate Driving Machine' a bit too literally and therefore drive like they are in a race and abuse the engine too much.

Opel went through a very bad phase too, the Vectra B(95-02) is widely considered to be the worst made car in its class(and that includes French and Italian cars!). It is appalingly built. I've never seen a car that is so prone to ill fitting bumpers and falling off bit of the interior in my life!

Opels are supposed to be grand now and Porsches seemed to have escaped from this engineering downturn from the German makes.

I would still maintain that a German car will be far better than either an Italian or French car in terms of reliability, however, whereas before they were as good as the Japs for engine reliability and far better than them for the quality of the interiors, they are now a distant second to the Japs for quality and reliability.

Mercs would be almost as bad as an Italian/French car though!

unkel

bloke wrote:

Each to their own - Alfas are perfect for me, corollas are perfect for others!

Amen! Informative and well balanced post there, bloke. If only we had a few more of those on our many Alfa threads

Biro

ned78 wrote:

They're not well built, and they're not reliable, and resale values show this

To be fair, looking at the resale value isn't a good way to tell how good or bad a car is, especially not in this country. If it were a good way, then the Golf is the best car ever made bar none, and we all know that isn't true.
You do make fair points other than that though.
Aside from the past Alfa's, I was in the 159 and found it very well put together, and fantastically put together for an Alfa, even the panel gaps are even. (I am an Alfa fan by the way, not hardcore, but a bit!).
I also was in a Saab 93 and was brutally disappointed. Shockingly cheap inside and poorly put together. So for the same money, and the same engine (the 1.9 diesel), you'd be far wiser to buy the 159. But any joe soap Irish person won't agree with that.

grudgebringer

Well for my tuppence worth I am the owner of a 147 2.0 Selespeed (or sillyspeed) Lusso. I love the car, I have never driven anything that sounded as well as an Alfa does when you put the foot down, even the slight growl as you idle in traffic as the car tells you how unhappy it is to be just sitting there!!

They in my opinion are cars made to be driven distances, certainly not accustomed to the idling in city traffic .... one one occasion while I was doing such idling I received the well known (in the case of my model anyway) 'Selespeed system failure' and the car died :eek:

Turns out some electricial connections were loose and once they were tightened up it has been fine since ... still it does not instill me with confidence

So - my overall opinion is only buy one of these babies if you really love it and are willing to stick with it through thick and thin, it will undoubtedly give you some trouble at some stage but maybe if you are lucky and provide plenty of TLC to it the problems will be minor and nothing more than would be seen in any cars.

Downside I guess is generally repairs or servicing are plenty expensive

Upside .... DRIVE one ... and you'll see why Alfa owners LOVE their car :cool:

CarLover

I'm an Alfa fan...also not hardcore but a fan nonetheless. Unfortunately, setting aside the reliability issues, Alfa drivers suffer the same disease that Honda drivers suffer...they tend to believe their cars are the best things in the world to drive

Now don't get me wrong...cos Beamer drivers have a touch of that as well

But..truth be told...they're nice to drive and involving and stylish...but by no means amazing. I've driven a 2.0 147, a 1.6 and 2.0 156 and a diesel 159. I'd take my rear wheel BMW over any of those three any day of the week.

Sorry for the Alfa bashing...I still think they're gorgeous...just a little overrated by over enthusiastic owners. I still wanna drive a Brera 3.2...could never see myself owning one though as they're too damn slow!!

Lex Luthor

ned78 wrote: »

after a few years, you'd be embarrassed to show it to your friends.

No chance...!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NEVER...!!!!!!!!!

alias no.9

I've had my 156 for just short of 2 years.

It's not the best built car in the world, it's got a few rattles and squeaks.
It's not a toyota, but it's certainly not unreliable, there's been a few small wear and tear items, that cost little to put right (and despite the reputation for complexity were pretty handy DIY jobs), and a dead dog that cost much more to put right.
It's not the best performing car in the world, but it's got plenty of poke for a 1.8.
It's not the best handling car in the world, but it's damn good compared to most of the dross out there and certainly amongst the best of its contemporaries.
It's not economical, but that's probably as much to do with my right foot as the car.

The car is utterly compromised. The thing is, when you weigh up how much car you get for the money, there isn't a thing on the road can touch it. I'd never buy a new alfa, but I'd buy another one.

P.S. Further contrary to earlier posts, not all alfas are a dog to service, the oil filter on the twin sparks are amongst the most accessible I've ever changed. Try changing one on a ford Ka and you'll know what akward is. The Arresse V6 wasn't badly designed, it was designed for rear wheel drive cars, turning it through 90° to drive the front wheels has made things very tricky. All transverse mounted V6 engines are a pig to work on.