Honour System

Gatling

has anyone noticed that a fair few people arent playing by the rules i ve and a few other people have noticed in some games ppl just refuse to die ,or is it a lack of understanding of if your hit ,hands up im hit wait for game to finish , and i know its not just newbies seem to think there bb proof ,with a move to the new HRTA site surely its time to get the rules sorted, whats the point of most of us respecting the honour code then a group of others that dont or wont play by the rule, shouldnt have to be explained at every game, why bring am attitude of i dont give a f---/ to a game ,leave it at home

padmundo

They only make it worse on themselves because I really focus my fire on them when they don't take it...

Arcto

I presume its only (hopefully) the "noobs" or people who dont soft regularly that take this "Im wearing kevlar and have +10 shield activated" attitude towards the system?

Fiach Dubh

Yep, I've seen this happen from day one. That's not to say it's an epidemic, most players both regular and new do obey the rules but I've seen some chronic rule breakers. Blokes you hit in full view of others and they don't call hit. I've also seen some people when hit look around to see if anyone else saw it and not call if they think they can get away with it. Makes killing people like that hiding in a bush almost impossible.

Everybody can make a mistake, sometimes you just don't feel the hit, it's happened to me a few times. However for the ones who are clearly chancing their arm all the time there's only one recourse, tell them you have no interest in playing with someone who breaks the rules.

gandalf

Well last week when I was playing I was shot from behind by the traitor (crazy your name is now on the LIST) but I never felt it. One of my team mates had to tell me I was hit cause I didn't feel it.

Yes last weekend I could have sworn I hit people but they kept playing. It just meant I emptied a mag into their direction thou. Might be worthwhile reminding people that they have to take their hits before each game.

Hivemind187

According to Paul the new site will be a FIBUA set up which will require a combination of small ammounts of ranged work with LOTS of CQB indoor and open.

In a CQB situation people have choice but to take there hits because a) you can see them and b) They shriek when you hit them (for those who remember the first day).

If someone is really being a git about it then just ignore them. Literally blank them in the safe zone and elsewhere. after a while they will either start taking their hits or leave airsoft and take their ego to someone elses sport.

padmundo

There was the dude in a hoody one week that got milled out of it by several different people and didn't take it so I suicide charged him after my rifle was taken out and... lo and behold, he didn't take it then either. He got riddled by everyone after though and had no choice but accept it and I had fun just doing the run, slide and shoot action anyways!

du beton

same prob exists in uk, though they have a load of well established sites and giv guys a warning and kick repeat offenders off the site.Accordin to Airsoft international these sites are trying to organise some kind of red card list which would mean that if you are permanently banned from a site in Essex for eg they can check the system in Wostershire if you try to get onto a site there, and turn you away.

Arcto

Hey hive. Wheres the new HRTA being located. I feel ashamed i havnt been up yet (hangs head). Also kinda peed off now i just bought an SG1......not the most CQB friendly weapon and that new site sounds fibua 1337. Time to smash the piggy bank again :-D

Gatling

ppl must have found the cheat codes for HRTA (Godmode ) i understand the vest one ppl mightnt feel it , had one guy tell me his vest would stop a bullet there fore he couldnt be hit with a bb:eek: :eek: to me its annoying more than anything ,shouldnt have to waste a mag on one gi joe to get the idea he is hit

Fiach Dubh

Gatling wrote:

ppl must have found the cheat codes for HRTA (Godmode ) i understand the vest one ppl mightnt feel it , had one guy tell me his vest would stop a bullet there fore he couldnt be hit with a bb:eek: :eek: to me its annoying more than anything ,shouldnt have to waste a mag on one gi joe to get the idea he is hit

He really said that? :rolleyes:

Do they not listen to the rules? One round strikes you, you're dead.

Boston

Two sides to this and abit of patients and understanding is important.

Sometimes you're uncertain about what to do when hit. Even more experience players will sometimes not do the 'right' thing. For example, I was playing a game where we where about to assault up a flank, I shouted to the guy to the left of me for cover fire on five and I then proceeded to rush head long into a load of bbs. There was no cover fire as yer man was out, but yet looked to be in a defensive position to me and the defenders.

Sometimes you just don't feel a BB. in these cases it should be pointed out to the person when they get in range that they are hit. I've had this said to me before.

Sometimes people are in pain. Theres nothing like getting shot in the temple to make you want to curl up in a ball holding your head. This happened with a lad afew weeks ago. Unfortunately for him people just kept hitting him over and over.

Sometimes you simply haven't hit the person. In one of the tanker missions last week someone asked a marshal to check my position as they where firing hundreds of rounds into the long grass. What they could see was that all the rounds where falling about 2 feet short of my position.

Sometimes people are shouting lots of things at a person. Again last week there was a new lad who was riddle for not taken a hit yet there was a group of people (admittedly they couldn't see if he was hit or not) shouting at him to push forward.

And finally sometimes people are cheating bastards. I've heard one person tell another to not take a hit. You get a rep for not taking hits, and all you're going to do is make yourself a target.

padmundo

Might get a kevlar body suit so and just rambo the **** out of the place with my +100000 armour!

H.O.T.A.S.

True there is nothing worse than firing an entire mag at someone and they just sit there. I've only really encountered this problem with rentals and normally it's there first game and by the end of the day they are taking there hits. As for not feeling hits yeah it can happen to anyone especially if you are hit on your webbing.

Gatling

he really said that ,ppl watch to many movies these days ,name and shaming is a good idea at the end of every game it should be pointed out who is bb proof and asked to sit out the next game in front of everyone so everyone knows the consequence of ignoring the system

kdouglas

Gatling wrote:

ppl must have found the cheat codes for HRTA (Godmode ) i understand the vest one ppl mightnt feel it , had one guy tell me his vest would stop a bullet there fore he couldnt be hit with a bb:eek: :eek: to me its annoying more than anything ,shouldnt have to waste a mag on one gi joe to get the idea he is hit

eh.... if you were playing a MilSim game, then yes, rules regarding vests and body armour do come into play, but the majority of normal games are not milsim and there have not been any milsim events run in ireland yet

people not taking hits is going to be an issue no matter where you go, we're not unique in this problem, it's the same with paintball (although a little less of a problem for them) where you'd have people that would wipe paint off

there are marshalls present at games for this exact reason, and although they will try their best, they can't see everything, always give someone the benefit of the doubt but if you see someone continually not taking hits, say it to a marshall in private

do not take it up with the person personally, you'll only end up having an argument, a marshall can watch that person and check if they are taking their hits

Boston

Funny thing actually. Was assaulting a fire base at HRTA the other week and got pinned down in the open with a medic on the ground beside me. So was getting milled out of it and kept firing at the base, marshal even came over to see what I was at, eventually they took out the medic though.

Gatling

Boston you were there the day of nigels Roman Advance ,how many mags were wasted by the attackers by the end of the advance us attackers hadnt a bb between us ,as the defenders had the pallets for a shield yey not one bb scored a hit:rolleyes:

padmundo

Boston wrote:

Funny thing actually. Was assaulting a fire base at HRTA the other week and got pinned down in the open with a medic on the ground beside me. So was getting milled out of it and kept firing at the base, marshal even came over to see what I was at, eventually they took out the medic though.

Ha, I did the same I was at the nettles with two medics at my feet and I just kept laying in covering fire on the base.

bap bap bap... I'm dead, oh alive again... bap bap bap

Boston

The rules where changed after the roman assault that BBs through the pallets count. On that day a hit though a pallet didn't coun't. It was the first day we really tried the field with pallets. I got hit in the hands and tights loads of times in the assault, none of which counted. Additionally the attackers open fire well before we where anywhere near being within range of the bbs. You're talking about 50 meters with the average AEG, maybe 60~70 meters with a finely tweaked 1 joule sniper.

kdouglas

hmmmm.... even if the medic is right beside you, you should still drop (or put down gently) your aeg, shout medic, stand up and put your hand in the air, then wait for him grab your hand or some such, this at least means you have to stop firing for a couple of seconds

this whole thing of "well the medic is keeping his hand on my leg/arm/arse whatever" doesnt fly, sorry

Lemming

You'd be surprised ..... you can empty a clip at someone (or where you know someone is hiding) and actually not hit them.

Happened to me at Ground-Zero. A shed-load (and I mean literally everything except the walls and roof) got thrown through bushes at me and only after prolonged fire did a round manage to clip my arm. That's at least 30 seconds of constant fire from several people from, I'd guess maybe 20 foot away.

The point I guess I'm trying to make is just because you've fired at somebody does not mean you've hit them. And, as others have pointed out, sometimes you don't even notice you've been hit due to adrenaline, hitting bits of kit with padding/water carriers/etc. If in doubt, call a marshall - or outmaneuver them to get a confirmed hit.

odonnell

As a noob i can confess to one or two points of confusion but ive always taken my hits honestly as for me - without that, the game is pointless. What fun is there in something you can cheat at?

The one or two points of confusion were thus: i took a hit one day when possibly i shouldnt have - BB's were being sprayed over my head into a headgerow and rocks - a good few dozen were ricocheting all over the shop and landed on me so i couldnt be sure i was hit or not! The first time it happened, i didnt take the hit as i couldnt be sure i WAS hit. Second time of confusion was at the weekend just then - BBs were flying through the pallet and actually ricocheting over me as i was prone the entire game - so i was basically going on the "if i dont feel it, i cant be hit" rule just there.... obviously being prone and feeling nothing hitting me - theres just no way to know.

So yeah, sometimes as a noob its hard to know what to acknowledge and when to continue.

Last weekend there were three we spotted not taking their hits - one or two in particular if yous remember.

Maybe a poster should be stuck up in the safe zone(s) reminding people of rules, and a yellow card system introduced....sin bin.... etc.

Boston

I was standing upright the entire time and out in the open, and I was happy to pause as I was getting riddled. It was redundant after about the first two recoveries as they just didn't stop firing.

H.O.T.A.S.

odonnell wrote:

Maybe a poster should be stuck up in the safe zone(s) reminding people of rules, and a yellow card system introduced....sin bin.... etc.

Pretty good idea actually, need some more marshals to help out but shouldn't be anything too taxing

padmundo

kdouglas wrote:

hmmmm.... even if the medic is right beside you, you should still drop (or put down gently) your aeg, shout medic, stand up and put your hand in the air, then wait for him grab your hand or some such, this at least means you have to stop firing for a couple of seconds

this whole thing of "well the medic is keeping his hand on my leg/arm/arse whatever" doesnt fly, sorry

Well I stopped firing gun in air as I was told to do and called medic, there was an instant recovery and I leveled my gun and fired again. It was all per the rules as laid out at the beginning of that game.

kdouglas

coola-boola

Boston

I confess I wasn't calling out medic. Neither where most of the lads who where hit oddly enough. The medic was somehow expected to know.

CrazyRabbit

500 round hicaps are quite effective at making people take their hits. After the 200th bb hits them, they take the hint. That of course doesn't stop me from hitting them with another 200 rounds. Lesson learnt.

Yes, I'm just kidding

I actually think one of the biggest issues is people thinking that they've hit the other player, when in fact they haven't. I've had bb's come so close that I heard them whizz past my head, yet I was not hit. Didn't stop the attacker from calling for a marshal. It's also very common for bb's to land 1-3 feet in front of your target and it appears that you've reached them. Remember, it's quite hard to see small little 6mm bb's at 40 feet.

There have been occasions where I was hit in the peak of the cap I was wearing. Never been 100% if that counts as a hit, but I always call it as one anyway.

Mark_Sc

And gun hits, it'd be nice if people obayed that one...

liamo333

^Yup, I've never seen someone take a friendly fire hit or a gun hit. Really spoils the game:( There was one game where we were at the stumps and the guy behind me, thinking he was rambo firing from the hip put 5 rounds into the back of my head from 3 feet. Took the hit and nursed my wounds on my way back to the safe zone.

odonnell

whats a gun hit lads?

cpb

When a bb hits your aeg.

padmundo

If you take a hit to the gun then that gun becomes unusable but you can switch to your backup.

It's kind of fun because I usually take a suicide run if I'm out of range with the pistol! Blaze of glory stuff is gas!

odonnell

aaaaah....

.....clever.



I would have thought that would quite DEFINITELY be a hit? Do people actually oppose that rule???? what next - start carrying bibles in your pockets and if a bb strikes them, youre ok, cos technically a bible could stop a 9mm round from 50 yards, but only if its the penguin "for schools" edition from 1989?

Lemming

odonnell wrote:

whats a gun hit lads?

Where your gun gets hit by a BB

Rule is the gun is out. If you have another gun handy, you can resort to that. if not, you're out as well as if it was yourself that got hit.

Incidentally, I saw a very good system put to good use at Ground-Zero regarding friendly-fire hits.

Each person, when hit, would call out their team designation and 'hit', e.g. "Blue Hit!" so that the person firing would know what team they've hit. If it's your own side, you take the hit as well and go back to the dead-zone, etc. It encourages people to think before firing wildly.

odonnell

for FF incidents - would it not be useful to have a set of armbands or the like for one team?

padmundo

oh I dunno about armbands, sometimes it's fun to infiltrate the enemy and unleash hell from behind.

Lemming

odonnell wrote:

for FF incidents - would it not be useful to have a set of armbands or the like for one team?

Well, at GZ every player also had two tags attached to their persons with team colour and ID number. But you can't always see team colours, hence when hit you'd call out your team name as well.

Gatling

had a friendly fire hit creeping up to the tanker , the lad behind me seen a defender that was out of range and opened up full auto into the back of my head cause he was blind firing ,:mad: :mad: must have been a yank ,trigger happy

ED E

"for those who remember the first day"

Good times.


IMO Firing squads would clear out a lot of cheating! I know its bad for our reputation in a way but it works really well in predator.

cherubaul

Its a hard one to call alright.
But i dont think emptying the hi cap into someone is the answer. If i remember correctly I was at HRTA about 2 months ago. And there were 3 main points of contention.
first was people not taking their hits
Second was people being too heavy on the trigger finger
last was the amount of head shots I think a guy called chuck?? took about 5 rounds to the face ( goggles only) and team ghosts sniper had his head bled for him.

I think Pauls response was
1 if someone isnt taking their hits dont keep shooting tell him he'd keep an eye out next game.
2 Limit firing to bursts as much as possible
3 head shots only when absolutely necessary i.e in a you or me scenario ( as happened Fiach on the day and he was exceptionally gracious about it even chatting about it to the other person )

I think the 2nd and third problems stem from the first as people take the law into their own hands.
Paul is the site owner and as everyone here knows he's a man who demands respect when he talks he is more than capable of dealing with the issue. He did so admirably that day by rounding everyone up and basically said play right or leave we had an excellent day afterwards. I think Crazy rabbit and Ambro may recall the day.

Fallschirmjager

well there is a simple way, when someone is out due to a hit, they can become a marshall for their own side, assuming they are a regular obviously. we just need some way of getting the bright vest to show they are a marshall, perhaps we could use an armband and point out the bad eggs. also since your own team is doing it, it becomes all the more embarassing.

peronally i just dont see the point of winning that way. its like cheating in a game, what is the friggen point of that!

if i am in doubt i call it. also you always hear it hitting your gear..well at least i think i do anyways...we do need to give someone the benefit of the doubt i suppose but its the main issue with airsoft, and actually where paintball wins hands down...kinda hard to deny when you are a different colour...

Boston

liamo333 wrote:

^Yup, I've never seen someone take a friendly fire hit or a gun hit. Really spoils the game:( There was one game where we were at the stumps and the guy behind me, thinking he was rambo firing from the hip put 5 rounds into the back of my head from 3 feet. Took the hit and nursed my wounds on my way back to the safe zone.

I've seen boru take a Friendly fire hit. It was funny to see the reaction. Oddly enough the guy that hit him hasn't been back to hrta...

[--SC(+)PE--]

ive been "friendly killed" 3 times in the few games iv been to :rolleyes: its irrating as hell but a hits a hit. The gun hit thing is something id like to see alright or experience meself.

IMO Firing squads would clear out a lot of cheating! I know its bad for our reputation in a way but it works really well in predator.

agreed

Spetzcong

Having only been up to HRTA the once I can testify to it being confusing sometimes as to when you've been hit or not. I remember in particular the first tanker game I played running up to the ditch, and thinking I'd been hit as I ran in, I wasn't sure though, the guy in front of me had just been bang killed by some guy up a tree but I was too far away to hear the original bang kill. Obviously whoever was up the tree must have shot me on the way through the bushes and thought the guy at the ditch wasn't going to take his bang kill either, he opened up on us from close range and I sure knew I was hit then. I suppose in future I'll just go with the theory that if I think I'm hit I probably am hit.

Confusion aside, there's absolutely no point in playing the game if you're not going to take hits, it all becomes pointless. If nobody took any hits then we might as well be running around with sticks making machine gun noises.

I do think more experienced players should keep an eye out for us newbs though because between running around, the heat of battle and all the excitement it can be a bit hard to keep track of what's actually going on, if people who are more experienced can in a friendly way point out to people when they've been hit and make sure they follow the rules then it'll be even easier to spot the people who are deliberately cheating.

Boru.

I had a huge problem with this last week, to a point I got so annoyed I just stepped out and marshalled for a while. Personally I won't waste ammo anymore - I fire when I'm in range to visually confirm it, ask any of the three guys coming up over the logs near the lane and they'll tell ya

Boston

Boru. wrote:

I had a huge problem with this last week, to a point I got so annoyed I just stepped out and marshalled for a while. Personally I won't waste ammo anymore - I fire when I'm in range to visually confirm it, ask any of the three guys coming up over the logs near the lane and they'll tell ya

I remember last week you where convinced you where hitting either me or the two lads in front in the long grass during a tanker game, but marshall came over and you where close but not close enough. That said you may very well have been hitting the lads in front.

ED E

IF at all posssible I think all new players should be budyed with a regular and the regular should keep em in check and help them. If they learn right its much easier and more pleasant thatn arguing bout cheating.

Gatling

newbies should speak up when there at a skirmish rather than playing by ear, id like the idea of a buddy system for newbies for say first 45mins/an hour ,
bang kills, strange one talked about this to crazy on saturday who explained the in's and outs of a bang kill , i dont mind taking newbies for half an hour on saturday mornings and talking them through whats what ,before joing a full game ,im not exactly a pro-player but i know the rules and dont mind taking time to show newbies

nonex

Rules of Engagement
ELIMINATING THE OPPONENT

• Blind shooting is disallowed.

• Deliberate point blank shots are not allowed. Deliberate point blank shots are cause for immediate removal from the game. If this happens twice the participant will be removed permanently for the day without refund.

•However, we discourage shooting at the head, neck and groin areas. No participant may intentionally shoot at any other participant's head or face. Repeats will be removed permanently for the day without refund.



GETTING HIT

• Rounds that ricochet and hit do not count.

• If a participant's weapon is hit, it is considered useless.

• A participant that shoots himself or is shot by his own team mate is eliminated.

• If two participants hit each other simultaneously, both participants are eliminated.

• Any participant caught ignoring a hit during play will be considered eliminated and will be warned. If this happens twice the participant will be removed permanently for the day without refund.



ELIMINATION

• If a participant is hit anywhere, excluding the weapon, he is eliminated.

• An eliminated participant must raise his arms and call out that he's been hit.

• An eliminated participant should raise, remove his magazine, discharge any chambered rounds, turn the selector to safe, hold his weapon above his head and report to the staging area.

• An eliminated participant must remain at the staging area until the end of the game.

• No "liberating" of weapons and/or equipment from eliminated participants unless consent is verbally expressed beforehand.

• Eliminated participants are not allowed to communicate in any way with other active participants.

• Eliminated participants should leave their eye protection on. Never assume that everyone knows the game is over or hears the whistle.

• Active participants that walk with eliminated participants will automatically become eliminated participants. In the past, this unacceptable tactic has been used to trick participants.

• Eliminated participants should not shoot while on the way to and from the staging area, as this will distract and confuse active participants. This also means no discharging blank shots.



NEUTRALITY

• A neutrality symbol would be a weapon, without a magazine, held above the head.

• A participant is emphatically disallowed from shooting at any other participant showing a neutrality symbol, any non-participant or any staff member.

• No one may deliberately shoot an eliminated participant, staff member or spectator. Participants who do so will be immediately removed from the game. If this happens twice the participant will be removed permanently for the day without refund.

• Active participants that fire upon eliminated participants who do not clearly display the elimination signals and procedures cannot be held accountable.

• Eliminated participants, staff members, or spectators cannot be used as cover or shields.



SURRENDER

• Participants may ask opponents within 10ft to surrender, but the opponent is not required to respond. If they do respond that they surrender, it is the same as being eliminated.



HONOR

• Participants with tempers should leave them at home. Participants may not contact or grab anyone in an

Aggressive manner.

• Participants may not aggressively touch anyone or cause anyone to fall. Violation of this rule is cause for

Immediate and permanent removal without refund.

• No unsportsmanlike conduct, arguments, threats, racial or personal derogatoriness, abusive or foul language,

taunting, provoking, obscene gestures, or verbal aggression is allowed.

• Participants reported to be shouting "YOU'RE HIT!" or similar phrases at other participants will be considered to be displaying aggressive behaviour and will be warned. If this happens twice the participants will be removed permanently for the day without refund.

• Always give your opponent the benefit of the doubt.

BOUNDARY

• The active battle zone boundaries are designated . No participant may move outside the perimeter of the

active battle zone. Participants that travel out of bounds during play are automatically eliminated.

• Participants may not shoot through the boundaries into other areas of play.


i'll say no more