Luas Line F to be announced today

dmeehan

A brand new Luas line from Lucan to Dublin city centre, capable of carrying 20 million passengers annually, will be unveiled today.

The F line is expected to be finished in 2013 and will serve Ballyfermot, Liffey Valley and Lucan.

It will open up a new tram corridor on the south inner city for areas that now have poor rail access.

The line will also connect to the existing Tallaght and Sandyford Luas lines, Irish rail commuter services and the proposed Metro North

link: http://www.independent.ie/national-news/new-luas-line-set-for-launch-1089497.html?r=RSS



Can anyone find any maps of this?

seamus

Oh that'll be great...

In six years time, probably more like ten

barclay2

dunno if this helps, its a map of what the dublin rail network is intended to look like by 2015, http://www.transport21.ie/MAPS/TRANSPORT_21_MAPS/Greater_Dublin_Area_Rail_Network.html#

MarkoP11

Its just route options today, the options have been floating around since July

Option 1, the blue line goes Dame Street, Inchicore, Red Line, Ballyfermot, cross N4, Lucan

Option 2, the purple line goes Green line, Cuffe Street, weaves across the south city to Red Line at Fatima, follows the canal then Ronanstown and the southern bit of Lucan

Details have been on the members forum of the Platform 11 website for ages

fitzyshea

Any chance they might hurry up and conect the two existing lines!!

Slice

Its just route options today, the options have been floating around since July

Option 1, the blue line goes Dame Street, Inchicore, Red Line, Ballyfermot, cross N4, Lucan

So after Inchicore residents lobbied successfully to have the red line diverted away from the village they're now being rewarded for their mistake with a second opportunity to enjoy the benefits of Luas? This must be the only neighbourhood in Dublin to get two chances for Luas.

Isn't the Dart extension via the interconnector going to serve a similar neighbourhood?

MarkoP11

The lines would cross at a 90 degree angle, the rail line would be from that point about 12 minutes to St Stephen's Green, Luas would be easily double that

Having travelled some of one of the proposed routes by bus it doesn't look doable

spacetweek

Being from Lucan this line is of particular interest to me. The alignment from Red Line west has always been clear, via Kylemore Rd, Coldcut, Liffey Valley, northern Ballyowen and Esker Lane.

But the city centre part is tough because if you use Inchicore/Thomas St etc. then it's just a duplication of the Interconnector - but there's no easy route further south. Maybe follow the canal ring as far as N81 and come up through Harold's Cross?

Would the shared section in the middle be up for the job?

aliveandkicking

dmeehan wrote:

Can anyone find any maps of this?

http://www.rpa.ie/cms/download.asp?id=364

gjim

This is a big wasted opportunity. I'd rather see it NOT go to the centre of town given the interconnector will thrash it in terms of speed and range of destinations.

Rather than providing an inferior and redundant service, it could, for example, swing south and follow the Grand canal intersecting with the Green line at Charlemont and maybe ending up around the Grand Canal Dock or Ringsend or even crossing the Liffey to link with the Point extension. People in Lucan would have options of change at Park West for the DART or stay on and change to the red Luas or continue to the green Luas for southside destinations or continue to the docklands. A huge swathe of the south city centre (including neighbourhoods like Harold's cross and Portabello, Baggot St. etc.) would now have access to the rail network.

With the interconnector and metro north providing a rail backbone for Dublin, the RPA should really be thinking much more in terms of developing a NETWORK instead of providing a jumble of weirdly competing and overlapping lines.

murphaph

gjim wrote:

This is a big wasted opportunity. I'd rather see it NOT go to the centre of town given the interconnector will thrash it in terms of speed and range of destinations.

Rather than providing an inferior and redundant service, it could, for example, swing south and follow the Grand canal intersecting with the Green line at Charlemont and maybe ending up around the Grand Canal Dock or Ringsend or even crossing the Liffey to link with the Point extension. People in Lucan would have options of change at Park West for the DART or stay on and change to the red Luas or continue to the green Luas for southside destinations or continue to the docklands. A huge swathe of the south city centre (including neighbourhoods like Harold's cross and Portabello, Baggot St. etc.) would now have access to the rail network.

With the interconnector and metro north providing a rail backbone for Dublin, the RPA should really be thinking much more in terms of developing a NETWORK instead of providing a jumble of weirdly competing and overlapping lines.

+1.

Lucan was a planning disaster created by corruption and greed and this is an attempt by FF to buy the votes in this area.

North-south feeder buses to the DART will hammer the tram in journey time to almost any destination along route option 1. I hope they opt for as much of the eastern portions of route 2 as possible thus reducing the interconnector overlap somewhat, but a Luas to Rathfarnham would be a better use of this money tbh.

dazberry

Slice wrote:

So after Inchicore residents lobbied successfully to have the red line diverted away from the village they're now being rewarded for their mistake with a second opportunity to enjoy the benefits of Luas? This must be the only neighbourhood in Dublin to get two chances for Luas.

Deadly, I can watch two different Luas' go by while I wait for the generally empty and faster bus (disclaimer: certain times of the day only). Of course if Line F runs thru' Inchicore village, Emmet Rd, James St, well that's the end of that so.

On a serious note, Luas is dedicated between Fatima and Blackhorse with only one road crossing, definitely worth considering the use of that segment if possible.

D.

Poxyshamrock

Sounds great!

steve-o

gjim wrote:

With the interconnector and metro north providing a rail backbone for Dublin, the RPA should really be thinking much more in terms of developing a NETWORK instead of providing a jumble of weirdly competing and overlapping lines.

It's a real shame that there's no planning. Every proposed line/extension is a real crayon job. Because there never was a master plan, no land has been reserved in the (new) suburbs, so we'll end up with on-street trams with loads of crossings. The green line is fast because it's almost completely segregated. The red line is slower because it's only kinda segregated. These routes look like they are mostly on-street, so there's a danger we'll end up with a second-rate system, no matter how shiny it looks.

Skyhater

Wasting Money on these 2nd Rate systems is a crock of s**te, and it's really starting to annoy me.:mad: We have weak ministers and weak press that will believe anything these so call experts in the RPA feed them.

City Centre to Malahide/Howth
City Centre to Swords,
City Centre to Blanchardstown
City Centre to Lucan
City Centre to Tallaght
City Centre to Sandyford
City Centre to Bray
and a Circle Line

.... should all be heavy rail segregated metro!!!!

If we remove a few LC's, Dart will provide this to Mal/Howth, Blanch, and Bray. We shouldn't waste money putting Luas/Light Metro on the others.

Luas should only be used as "hop on/hop off" public transport in the city centre and to connect to these High Capacity lines outside the city centre.

This should be the strategic plan.... better to have 1 new High Capacity Metro line than 3 wining and weaving, low capacity, and slow Luases!!!!

loyatemu

gjim wrote:

This is a big wasted opportunity. I'd rather see it NOT go to the centre of town given the interconnector will thrash it in terms of speed and range of destinations.

Rather than providing an inferior and redundant service, it could, for example, swing south and follow the Grand canal intersecting with the Green line at Charlemont and maybe ending up around the Grand Canal Dock or Ringsend or even crossing the Liffey to link with the Point extension. People in Lucan would have options of change at Park West for the DART or stay on and change to the red Luas or continue to the green Luas for southside destinations or continue to the docklands. A huge swathe of the south city centre (including neighbourhoods like Harold's cross and Portabello, Baggot St. etc.) would now have access to the rail network.

With the interconnector and metro north providing a rail backbone for Dublin, the RPA should really be thinking much more in terms of developing a NETWORK instead of providing a jumble of weirdly competing and overlapping lines.

I agree - along the canal and then maybe down to donnybrook and ballsbridge,. That way you are serving 2 major business districts and providing connection with the red line and green line. Lucan passengers wishing to go to city centre destinations can change onto one of the other lines. Extend Metro North to somewhere south of the canal (say HaroldsX) and suddenly everything connects up.

The idea of having this share with the red line is madness too.

the options shown on the map seem to be an attempt to reproduce Dublin Bus's eternal obsession with "An Lar" and have every single service terminate at Stephens green! It also seems to be on-street for most of its length - even compared to the Red line, this is low-budget pants! Surely someone in the RPA must've looked at this map and realised what a load of crap those lines are....

OTK

Is there any room by the Grand Canal? I think you'd have to remove all road traffic. There are a lot of old bridges along the canal itself that can't be touched.

Slice

Traffic along the grand canal has the alternative option of using the South Circular Road.

BrianD

One wonders would the people of Lucan be better served by the opening of a proper commuter rail station for the town.

As usual the RPA maps published in the newspapers conveniently leave off existing rail lines and proposed projects by Irish Rail.

i find it hillarious that every 6 months we have another proposed line being sent out for public consultation. It's high time that there was a masterplan in place. This should be implemented with best planning practicises in mind without any need for public consultation.

paulm17781

BrianD wrote:

It's high time that there was a masterplan in place. This should be implemented with best planning practicises in mind without any need for public consultation.

I thought this was part of Irish planning law (which needs reform anyway).

AlekSmart

2009 as the "New" commencement date for the Luas link-up..?
By 2009 the economy will be well mired in the swamp resulting from the total lack of responsible and coherent planning.
My prediction is that the Luas BX line will then be quietly shelved as the Metro will duplicate it blah blah blah.....
The salient point is that the Planners who`s job it is to Plan will retain their positions and even be promoted whilst the rest of us continue to fund them......

On an associated point.....has anybody come up with an accurate breakdown of where EXACTLY the €49 Million of Integrated Ticketing funding has been spent ?
There appears to be a vast cloak of silence over WHO recieved these funds.....:(

trellheim

There is no such integrated planning.

It's a big fight between Dublin Bus, RPA and Iarnrod Eireann for turf.

Department of Transport occasionally throw in gobbets of raw meat.

Whatever comes out is the worst thing possible.

The previous Minister for Transport specifically rejected a control role for the DTA, thus ending any hope if integrated transport in this town.

jrar

Previous incumbent was a discredited dork with a liking for photo-ops, talking ****e and little else.

Perhaps the current office holder will show a little more spine and take a new look at the overall control body required - otherwise, we're set to be bedevilled by these internecine spats and turf wars between the RPA, IE, DB, etc. etc.

Slice

i find it hillarious that every 6 months we have another proposed line being sent out for public consultation.

If only there were as many lines being completed on as regular a basis...

BrianD

paulm17781 wrote:

I thought this was part of Irish planning law (which needs reform anyway).

I'm all for public input but I think that national infrastructure planning requires a certain amount of imposition rather than consultation. A new rail or road route may not be welcomed by those who currently live in its environs but will benefit the greater population. The only people who are likely to respond to a public consultation are those who will be directly affected by it.

We need to have an infrastucture masterplan in place and let it it dictate where new developments are built as opposed to the other way around e.g. Metro West.

murphaph

BrianD wrote:

I'm all for public input but I think that national infrastructure planning requires a certain amount of imposition rather than consultation. A new rail or road route may not be welcomed by those who currently live in its environs but will benefit the greater population. The only people who are likely to respond to a public consultation are those who will be directly affected by it.

We need to have an infrastucture masterplan in place and let it it dictate where new developments are built as opposed to the other way around e.g. Metro West.

Exactly. We all get the opportunity to elect the government. They should then go ahead and govern us and if we don't as a majority like their work, we can remove them at the ballot box. In truth of course, Ireland is urbanising rapidly and the electoral system needs to catch up to give us better representation.

spacetweek

Back on topic. The thing has to be put out to public consultation; get over it guys.

Option 2 is pants. Option 1 is also pants, but less so. I'm worried about the duplication of not just the Interconnector, but the Red Line too. Also in Lucan they're now planning on using Lucan Road. This will be difficult especially at Lucan Church where there is no space at the sides of the road. Here is where the lack of a reservation is a problem.

monument

dazberry wrote:

On a serious note, Luas is dedicated between Fatima and Blackhorse with only one road crossing, definitely worth considering the use of that segment if possible.

I'd guess, speed wise, the segregation matters less there as the stops are so close together.

ADDED: A few observations...

- On the city centre sections...

- Option orange/two has three stops between Fatima and the St Stepehens Green
- Option blue/one has two stops between James Hospital and Trinity (I'm guessing there's little space between Christchurch and the end?)
- Current red line has five stops in about the same space

- The proposed stop named 'Tyrconnell' is on the map as right beside Blackhorse

- Inchicore Village... how the hell will that work?

- Parkwest or Village... old or new?

- I'm taking a bit of a guess as I don't know the area that well, but, on the western leg, is the Liffey Valley SC / Lucan Village way more likely then the southern path?

Victor

Maps with other lines added in.

They seem to have deleted Adamstown. :rolleyes:

BendiBus

Option 1 runs the length of Old Kilmainham from the SCR to James's. Will it be sharing this route with regular traffic or will cars & buses be sent elsewhere? It's only a single lane in each direction. And it can be utter chaos at times. Not to mention all the Dublin Providers trucks getting in & out of DPL's yards! It would be a nice side effect if DPL moved elsewhere.

strassenwolf

AlekSmart wrote:

2009 as the "New" commencement date for the Luas link-up..?
By 2009 the economy will be well mired in the swamp resulting from the total lack of responsible and coherent planning.
My prediction is that the Luas BX line will then be quietly shelved as the Metro will duplicate it blah blah blah.....
The salient point is that the Planners who`s job it is to Plan will retain their positions and even be promoted whilst the rest of us continue to fund them......

It's certainly worrying that the two projects are now being linked together by the RPA.

Given that most large projects in Ireland seem to get delayed, I think there's every likelihood that construction of the metro will not start in 2009, and it will not be completed on time. The LUAS link-up will thus also be delayed. Or dropped altogether, as you say, which would be a shame.

Ideally, the RPA should get on with construction of the LUAS link now. Unfortunately, they've made this almost impossible with the choice of route, which will surely delay the whole process of getting the go ahead.:(

dazberry

monument wrote:

I'd guess, speed wise, the segregation matters less there as the stops are so close together.

It matters less but does make a diffence. Psychologically (to me anyway) it makes such a difference to be stopping at stops rather than stopping at traffic signals. The red line to me is one of three parts, the canal while not being the fastest is a step above the city segment. I don't see the Inchicore route being any better than a city style segment.

monument wrote:

- The proposed stop named 'Tyrconnell' is on the map as right beside Blackhorse

Personally I think this is a notional stop to "tick a box". I think the reality of putting an actual stop there would be somewhat different.

monument wrote:

- Inchicore Village... how the hell will that work?

I don't even have the imagination to ... well ... imagine how this could work!

BendiBus wrote:

Option 1 runs the length of Old Kilmainham from the SCR to James's. Will it be sharing this route with regular traffic or will cars & buses be sent elsewhere? It's only a single lane in each direction. And it can be utter chaos at times. Not to mention all the Dublin Providers trucks getting in & out of DPL's yards! It would be a nice side effect if DPL moved elsewhere.

The last week traffic has been hell, to the extent that it has taken up to 35 minutes on the bus to get from Inchicore to Thomas St (you would walk that distance in the same time). My guess is that a lot of car traffic has re-routed from the North Quays to Thomas St, and this has completely clogged up Old Kilmainham.

Thursday and Friday I managed to get on the 68/69s, which bring me in via the North Quays. These were always the routes to be avoided (+51) mostly due to the problems of getting off Parkgate St on to Wolfe Tone Quay. Now that reverse has happened and the 10 to 20 (varies) minutes saved on the North Quays are catching the 51B/C (and 78s etc). I should add that I get the Luas home, so its been a long time since I've experienced the crawl thru' Old Kilmainham in the other direction. In the past (pre-Luas) the routes of choice for me were 51B/C in and 68/69 out (if you could time it right).

So yes, I can't envision a Luas running that route as is. Making the route access only with the exception of buses and luas is an option - but personally I don't think its a very good one. Like Steeven's lane - but is this now a step to far??? But is someone somewhere viewing this with a pre-text of congestion charging perhaps???

D.

spacetweek

dazberry wrote:

Personally I think this is a notional stop to "tick a box". I think the reality of putting an actual stop there would be somewhat different.

Eh? You would have to have a stop here, so that people could transfer to the Red Line. The only issue is that it would have to have the same name, Blackhorse.

dazberry wrote:

I don't even have the imagination to ... well ... imagine how this could work!

Agreed - it would have to be wholly or partially pedestrianised with the stop integrated into the street á la Jervis.

dazberry

spacetweek wrote:

Eh? You would have to have a stop here, so that people could transfer to the Red Line. The only issue is that it would have to have the same name, Blackhorse.

Sorry yes - I was incorrectly thinking of the routes joining prior to Bluebell - I've revisited the map and you're right.

If the line did turn down Tyrconnell Rd, I would imagine the stop needing to be before the canal bridge, so effectively you'd have one stop on each side of the bridge. I think it would be too confusing if they were both called Blackhorse.

If the route does join at the Blackhorse stop I wonder how they are going to manage the alignment. The lump of waste ground that could have made it easy (from my untrained eyes) is in the process of having a big lump of apartments built on it.

D.

aliveandkicking

dazberry wrote:

If the route does join at the Blackhorse stop I wonder how they are going to manage the alignment. The lump of waste ground that could have made it easy (from my untrained eyes) is in the process of having a big lump of apartments built on it.

D.

I was thinking exactly the same thing so I went and had a look (I live nearby) There is enough space from the edge of the new building to the canal for a Luas track and a narrow pedestrian walkway. It will be tight and involve some demolition of the bridge wall but it is possible IMO.

Victor

The department is actually producing 'paper' again.

http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp?id=9728&lang=ENG&loc=2126

Minister Dempsey launches Public Consultation on Route for Luas Line from Lucan to Dublin City Centre
27 September 2007

- Journey time of approximately 42 minutes

- 25 million passengers set to use the service

The Minister for Transport Noel Dempsey T.D., today (Thursday 27th September 2007) officially launched the public consultation process for the new Luas Line from Lucan to the City Centre.

Speaking at the launch today Minister Dempsey said: "People living in the Lucan area deserve a high quality public transport service on their door step. A Luas line will offer this. With an expected journey time of approximately 42 minutes from Lucan to the City Centre this new line will provide a realistic alternative to private transport and it will improve the quality of life for commuters along one of the busiest routes into the city. I encourage the public to get involved in the consultation phase of this project so that the Railway Procurement Agency can select the most appropriate route for the service."

Minister Dempsey added; "This Government is investing heavily to make public transport a real alternative for commuters. We expect that the Lucan line will add up to 25 million passengers to the Luas network and many of these are to come from cars. This is good news in our fight to ease traffic congestion and cut harmful CO2 emissions."

This Luas Line (Line F) is one of the 7 new Luas projects under the Government's €34 billion Transport 21 investment programme. Transport 21 is designed to give Ireland a world-class transport infrastructure over the period 2006 to 2015. This investment will address the twin challenges of past investment backlogs and continuing growth in transport demand. The projects and programmes that make up Transport 21 will aim to increase accessibility, ensure sustainability, expand capacity, increase use and enhance quality.

Hotblack Desiato

32,767 posts. That was RAMTOP on a 16K Spectrum back in the day...

Edit: add content...

Speaking at the launch today Minister Dempsey said: "People living in the Lucan area deserve a high quality public transport service on their door step. A Luas line will offer this.

That remains to be seen Noel. Plenty of people living along the red line would disagree with you.

With an expected journey time of approximately 42 minutes from Lucan to the City Centre

Woooo.

this new line will provide a realistic alternative to private transport

O rly?

I encourage the public to get involved in the consultation phase of this project so that the Railway Procurement Agency can select the most appropriate route for the service.

LOLOLOLOL input from the public, whatever next. How about this bit of input - Luas is a crock.

Propellerhead

ninja900 wrote: »

LOLOLOLOL input from the public, whatever next. How about this bit of input - Luas is a crock.

How about this reality check - The bus service in Lucan is wholly inadequate for purpose, no matter how many buses are thrown at it.

Are you going to make a submission to the minister with lots of 'rlys' and 'LOLOLOLOL's?

That would really be a like, rly persuasive argument, dude.

markpb

Propellerhead wrote: »

How about this reality check - The bus service in Lucan is wholly inadequate for purpose, no matter how many buses are thrown at it.

You're making the mistake of thinking the Luas will be better simply because it's a train. That's flawed for two reasons. One is that we've already proved we can make a balls of a train line and the second is that the bus service could be better if we provided decent bus infrastructure. The problem isn't a lack of buses but a lack of segregated bus corridors with decent priority measures.

weehamster

Emm...isnt the Luas not a tram not a train.

Capacity for any single route
Train = Medium to High
Tram = Low to Medium
Bus = Low

cast_iron

weehamster wrote: »

Capacity for any single route
Train = Medium to High
Tram = Low to Medium
Bus = Low

Capacity is one thing, journey time is another.

At certain times, the bus to Lucan bus journey time can be half the proposed 42 min. Hardly a huge benefit after 000's of millions of euro.

I know people who have stopped using the Tallaght Luas as the bus is quicker, and you get to sit down.

Skyhater

Everyone know that if the correct decision was made.... Lucan (and Tallaght, etc), should have a High Capacity-Heavy Rail-Metro System!!!!

Victor

Skyhater wrote: »

Everyone know that if the correct decision was made.... Lucan (and Tallaght, etc), should have a High Capacity-Heavy Rail-Metro System!!!!

Its called DART 2.

Skyhater

And it's not going to serve most of Lucan..... Adamstown is not within walking distance of 95% of people in the lucan area!
If we rely on Dart2 to serve a catchment area of that size, we would need trains every 1 minute.
Lucan needs it's own dedicated heavy rail link. As does all major corridors.
Luas lines should only be used in the city centre and to link-to the High Capacity corridor.

It will never happen though..... RPA will never recommend heavy rail!!!!!!

markpb

weehamster wrote: »

Capacity for any single route
Train = Medium to High
Tram = Low to Medium
Bus = Low

That's not true anymore. There are countless busways around the world that have medium-high capacity because they are properly built. Trans Mileneo in Bogot has a system capacity of 41,000 pphpd and can be further extended. The Lincoln Tunnel bus lane (albeit with no stops) has a capcity of 15,000 passengers per hour. The Orange Line busway in LA has a higher passenger loading per year than it's LRT and one of it's HRTs.

According to Samuel (2002), calculation of BRT system capacity in the U.S often is limited to only 10,000 to 12,000 pphpd because they do not take into account the very small headways that are possible with BRT. If these infrastructure requirements are met, it is possible to run buses at six to eight second headways (450 to 600 buses per hour per lane). This equates to a seated capacity of 27,000 to 36,000 passengers per hour.

Propellerhead

cast_iron wrote: »

Capacity is one thing, journey time is another.

At certain times, the bus to Lucan bus journey time can be half the proposed 42 min. Hardly a huge benefit after 000's of millions of euro.

When exactly does it take 21 minutes from Lucan to the City Centre?

Certainly not at the times that commuters travel at.

:rolleyes:

markpb

Propellerhead wrote: »

When exactly does it take 21 minutes from Lucan to the City Centre?

Certainly not at the times that commuters travel at.

:rolleyes:

You're missing the point completely. Light rail lines are incredibly expensive to build and (usually to) operate. If they're only useful for a few hours in the morning and evening, you have to question whether they're economical. Dublin should definitely have a high capacity, high speed public transport system but if it's not built properly and people are using the old bus corridors instead, something went wrong.

If you're building LRT, do it properly and have it as segregated as possible. If you're not willing to segregate it, there's no point building it.

Skyhater

markpb wrote: »

If you're building LRT, do it properly and have it as segregated as possible. If you're not willing to segregate it, there's no point building it.

Totally Agree Mark!
Very well summed up!!

Propellerhead

markpb wrote: »

You're missing the point completely. Light rail lines are incredibly expensive to build and (usually to) operate. If they're only useful for a few hours in the morning and evening, you have to question whether they're economical. Dublin should definitely have a high capacity, high speed public transport system but if it's not built properly and people are using the old bus corridors instead, something went wrong.

If you're building LRT, do it properly and have it as segregated as possible. If you're not willing to segregate it, there's no point building it.

So, no point in catering for commuters then. WTF?

Should we have followed Sean Barrett and Kevin Myers and put down busways instead of railways and tramways? Jesus Christ, what a bunch of tightarses we are as a nation, planting the workers in sprawl and then telling them that they must shorten their lives in apocalyptic traffic so that a minority of the upper middle class can drive their Mercedes outside peak and feel all warm and fuzzy because their precious top rate contribution hasn't been wasted on improving the quality of life of those beneath them.

:mad:

markpb

Propellerhead wrote: »

So, no point in catering for commuters then. WTF?

If you're going to quote me, do me a favour and read my post before you do. There's not much point in spending millions for an LRT which will only be useful to commuters. If it lies empty the rest of the day because the bus is better then it's wasting money and, worse still, politicians and the media will point to it as a reason not to build any more rail lines.

Should we have followed Sean Barrett and Kevin Myers and put down busways instead of railways and tramways?

Nope. Just build them properly. If you want an LRT, then build it properly. If you're not going to build it properly, build a busway which can achieve a similar capacity and speed for a lower price. There's no point trying to find a fudge position in the middle where we have the cost of a LRT but the performance of a bus (not even a busway).

weehamster

So basically ye are talking about something like this


Now a BRT only would work if it was FULLY segrated. But do we have the room in Dublin to build a fully segrated busway which appears to need more room than a tramway for example