Port Tunnel

Brian CivilEng

paulm17781 wrote:

As Derek said, I could join the Aircorps and use the Helicopter for free, in fact I'd get paid for it. Fact is I can't use the tunnel for free (unless I become a truck driver.)

Hope on a bus to the airport at rush hour, there's a good chance you'd get to use the tunnel then! For no more than the fare you'd normally pay, hence a free extra. Satisfied?

DerekP11

antoinolachtnai wrote:

Why does the tunnel need more usage? Have you driven along the quays during rush hour lately?

Whats your point? The quays are still jammers. My average journey time on each quay has increased by approxiamately 6 minutes since 2005.

DerekP11

Theres a lot of comparisons flying around this thread in terms of benefitting from tax payer funded projects. However I think a lot of them are far from like with like.

Bottom line for me. The DPT is road infrastructure. Its infrastructure for the majority, not a minority. Within road users, the majority are being penalised if they want to use it.

I too, am surprised by the attitude displayed here in relation to the OPs suggestion.

antoinolachtnai

Well, increasing traffic through the port tunnel almost inevitably leads to more traffic on the quays. The OP's suggestion might do the opposite, but it would do it to such a small extent as to be not worth the administrative effort.

You benefit from the Port Tunnel even if you don't actually travel through it, through reduced congestion on the quays.

paulm17781

antoinolachtnai wrote:

Why does the tunnel need more usage? Have you driven along the quays during rush hour lately?

Yes, I live on the quays, it is quieter (volume) than it was but it is still hectic the whole time. Have you lived along the quays lately?

antoinolachtnai

By remarking on driving along the quays, I meant exactly what you said, that it is hectic, and my point, to be completely explicit was that increasing the volume of traffic through the DPT will drive further increases in traffic on the quays and in the city centre generally.

paulm17781

antoinolachtnai wrote:

By remarking on driving along the quays, I meant exactly what you said, that it is hectic, and my point, to be completely explicit was that increasing the volume of traffic through the DPT will drive further increases in traffic on the quays and in the city centre generally.

So as less cars need to go through the city, more will? :rolleyes:

paulm17781

abitofacomedian wrote:

Hope on a bus to the airport at rush hour, there's a good chance you'd get to use the tunnel then! For no more than the fare you'd normally pay, hence a free extra. Satisfied?

"Abitofacomedian" - clearly.

Yes, that makes it better. I shall now deviate all my journeys to go via the airport at all times, that is a sensible way to utilize existing infrastructure.

mickoneill30

paulm17781 wrote:

"Abitofacomedian" - clearly.

Yes, that makes it better. I shall now deviate all my journeys to go via the airport at all times, that is a sensible way to utilize existing infrastructure.

Well what's your problem then? You don't want to pay for it because you don't use it. Well do you use all the roads in Dublin or Ireland? Should you only pay taxes for the roads you use?

As was mentioned before there are a hell of a lot of taxes for services that you'll probably never use, if you only want to pay for what you use post how this could be set up (in a new thread).

johnnyrotten

jahalpin wrote:

The Port Tunnel was designed to remove heavy goods vehicles from the main roads. It was never designed to bring cars to the port.

Correct and relevant

paulm17781

mickoneill30 wrote:

Well what's your problem then? You don't want to pay for it because you don't use it. Well do you use all the roads in Dublin or Ireland? Should you only pay taxes for the roads you use?

As was mentioned before there are a hell of a lot of taxes for services that you'll probably never use, if you only want to pay for what you use post how this could be set up (in a new thread).

Shh, keep it in your pants dear. My point is that it is an under utilized piece of infrastructure payed for by taxes (not hauliers) that could be used to remove a sizeable chunk of port going traffic. Instead it is sitting there, unused for a large part of the day, while our medieval city streets are clogged with traffic.

As has been pointed out, traffic is worse now that it was when the tunnel was planned, if cars had the option to use it to get to the port (as the OP said when going for a ferry) without having to pay whatever the toll is, it could help relieve congestion in the streets.

Some of you are getting very aggressive about this, do you want to keep it quiet for chunnneling or something?

mickoneill30

Yeah OK. I'd be happy if the buses could even use it. I live in Swords and it's great for the odd bus that does use it but Dublin Bus can't use it officially without getting a license from the DOT. There are about 100 people on every bus from Swords and other northside towns in the morning that could really benefit from using the tunnel.

paulm17781

mickoneill30 wrote:

Yeah OK. I'd be happy if the buses could even use it. I live in Swords and it's great for the odd bus that does use it but Dublin Bus can't use it officially without getting a license from the DOT. There are about 100 people on every bus from Swords and other northside towns in the morning that could really benefit from using the tunnel.

Exactly my point.

mickoneill30

paulm17781 wrote:

Exactly my point.

Well yes and no. It's not the port tunnel stopping the Dublin Buses. It's the Dept Of (no) Transport.

paulm17781

mickoneill30 wrote:

Well yes and no. It's not the port tunnel stopping the Dublin Buses. It's the Dept Of (no) Transport.

Yes. My point is that it is underutilized, no matter who you point the finger at, if the government wanted to, they could ensure it gets used.

Victor

paulm17781 wrote:

So as less cars need to go through the city, more will? :rolleyes:

Yes. Traffic expands to fill available road space.

When the trucks were removed from the quays, they were replaced by cars. The continuous bus lane should have opened at the same time as the tunnel.

paulm17781

Victor wrote:

Yes. Traffic expands to fill available road space.

But that isn't a hard and fast rule, it only applies when it is the quickest way. I'd be interested to see what amount of traffic used the tunnel / east link to bypass the city altogether.

antoinolachtnai

But there isn't an eastern bypass. There's a little road that runs through sandymount if that's what you mean.

And I think it is a fairly hard and fast rule, at least in a growing economy.

paulm17781

antoinolachtnai wrote:

But there isn't an eastern bypass. There's a little road that runs through sandymount if that's what you mean.

I said "to bypass" I never said "The bypass".

antoinolachtnai

But what good does that do? It just pushes more traffic into Sandymount. There's little capacity in the roads there for extra cars.

paulm17781

antoinolachtnai wrote:

But what good does that do? It just pushes more traffic into Sandymount. There's little capacity in the roads there for extra cars.

This is becoming tedious... It gets cars out of the city. Along the quays, the medieval ones that are too congested.

Now, I said I would be interested to see, I didn't say do it now. The whole point of this thread is that the tunnel is underutilized, some here are saying it could be used better. You seem hell bent to argue with this for any reason.

antoinolachtnai

I suppose this is because I disagree with you.

paulm17781

antoinolachtnai wrote:

I suppose this is because I disagree with you.

You're saying the tunnel isn't under utilized? Right...

OTK

paulm17781 wrote:

This is becoming tedious... It gets cars out of the city. Along the quays, the medieval ones that are too congested.

If some traffic is diverted from the quays during peak hours this frees up roadspace for other people who wouldn't have driven this route at that time. Soon the road returns to normal traffic levels. Sadly, this is a universal law, although road projects in Dublin are still cost justified on the basis that they will reduce congestion.

The whole point of this thread is that the tunnel is underutilized

It might not be a good thing to maximise gneral car traffic through the tunnel. the OP suggested inducing car ferry passengers to use the tunnel which seems sensible given that their only alternative is to drive through the city due to the location of the port.

paulm17781

OTK wrote:

It might not be a good thing to maximise gneral car traffic through the tunnel. the OP suggested inducing car ferry passengers to use the tunnel which seems sensible given that their only alternative is to drive through the city due to the location of the port.

That's my point, the tunnel could be put to better use.

bk

paulm17781 wrote:

Yes. My point is that it is underutilized, no matter who you point the finger at, if the government wanted to, they could ensure it gets used.

But is it underutilized?

I've an excellent view of the south end of the tunnel entrance for my office and it seems to be quiet busy most of the times I look out. In fact I never cease to be amazed at the large number of trucks that there is.

It isn't bumper to bumper like the M50, but then it isn't supposed to be, it is supposed to get the trucks out fast. During the working day however it looks quiet busy and probably couldn't take much more traffic (regulations on traffic flow and separation in the tunnel are very strict).

However I definitely agree that it is madness that Airport, Swords, Balbriggan, etc. buses don't use the tunnel. I know it is not DB fault, rather stupid muppetry by DoT. But buses using the tunnel would be far better utilisation of the tunnel then a couple extra cars.

BendiBus

I agree routing more buses through the tunnel would be much better than encouraging any car traffic. A far greater number of people would benefit this way.

Terrontress

Isn't the fact that allowing ferry traffic to use the port tunnel, thereby making our ferry system more efficient a valid point?

As it stands, there are people in NI who still take the ferry to Stranraer to get to Northern England. Allowing port users to use the port tunnel would make Dublin Port more competitive. Especially when people from Counties Fermanagh, Armagh and Down are concerned.

I agree with Marko who says that too many people have read the NDP signs about getting the lorries off the road instead of thinking outside of the box and asking what the tunnel could do for us.