intel to lay off up to 200

mukki

thank god


finally i am getting out of inhel


sorry if ya have a 500k mortgage

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0919/jobs1.html

Victor McDade

getting VSP will be like winning the lotto, every c*nt will be in for it, me included!

mukki

i am only there 2 years, and i made a point to be useless, hopefully they will be kean to get rid of me,


bet the vsp will have a min to get rid of nubies

Snake Plisken

I got out with a load of dosh last year and it was freakin great no more Focal (or Fukall as we liked to call it), no more crappy managers who should never have been made managers in the first place! Message to you get out if you can!!!

leeroybrown

Looks like Irish costs and wages are putting serious pressure on the magic wafer cost trend graph. I would suggest that this is probably a preemptive strike to keep the fab operations competitive versus other potential order destinations.

ongarite

All the layoffs are in the old 8" FAB IFO that has been JUST about hanging for the last few years doing NOR flash memory. Intel haven't made a profit from that business in many years.
I'd say the writing is on the wall for IFO operations.
FAB10 is very old, not feasible to upgrade it to 12" FAB. FAB14 could be retrofitted if they feel like it but there is plenty of space left in FAB24 for another process down the road.

MrWenger1982

I don't know one affected person in there who is disappointed by the VSP announcement. It is open to a few groups outside of IFO such as IT, Materials etc... It will probably mean more work for those of us who are left while we strive to become more efficient*

It is always funny to see how managers try to go back on what they said 3 months before that.

*Do same work with less people :mad:

leeroybrown

Next thing you know they'll be trying to restrict people in the clean rooms to the statutory minimum breaks.

milanac

mukki wrote:

i am only there 2 years, and i made a point to be useless, hopefully they will be kean to get rid of me,


bet the vsp will have a min to get rid of nubies

Firstly, vsp package is not worth the bother for nubbies, suits people with 5yrs + experience
The vsp in 2001ish did make it more attractive 4 newer folk, fella there less than a yr were leaving with a yrs wages

As for workin there for 2 years being useless I feel sorry of the guys who had to carry you.. if your p***ed off with the place go to australia or somewhere far far away.

Tom Dunne

milanac wrote:

Firstly, vsp package is not worth the bother for nubbies,

What's are nubbies?

Edit: Oh, I presume you mean newbies?

milanac wrote:

The vsp in 2001ish did make it more attractive 4 newer folk,

Folk? Now there's a real Intel-head term. You are obviously working there too long. Perhaps you should consider applying for the VSP yourself.

milanac wrote:

As for workin there for 2 years being useless I feel sorry of the guys who had to carry you.. if your p***ed off with the place go to australia or somewhere far far away.

Great, constructive first post. A lot of anger there.

These redundancies have been coming a long time. I have been hearing about it from Intel employees for the past year or two. It's no great shock, and it's not a big deal. Business as usual.

Snake Plisken

Sounds Like his one of the Excellent Middle Management staff that makes it such a joy to work in Intel

mukki

wow milanac, can't believe you felt so strong that you created an account to reply, welcome to boards, its a great way to pass time in work

Firstly, vsp package is not worth the bother for nubbies, suits people with 5yrs + experience
The vsp in 2001ish did make it more attractive 4 newer folk, fella there less than a yr were leaving with a yrs wages

not worth the bother??? i'm getting paid money to not work in intel

As for workin there for 2 years being useless I feel sorry of the guys who had to carry you.. if your p***ed off with the place go to australia or somewhere far far away.

i was exagerating, I suppose you always stuck to your break time, he who committed no sin......

doolox

I have applied for the package for several reasons.
1. Focal is not worth the bother, I havent had a payrise in 7 years since moving into the Fab operations from what I was originally hired to do, namely electronic motherboard repair. In fact after being put repairing robot equipment in an automated environment I was downgraded and they wanted to take money off me. Only this year have I got successful ratings at focal, by keeping tabs with meetings with my manager and following up on any training/development plans etc. Focal is a bad system in that it allows management too much lee-way in deciding who gets paid what, it erodes teamwork and creates a lot of resentment in the workplace.
2. There is no protection from narky engineering staff who can pick on you any time they fell like it even if they are not in your organisation and you are on your break.
3. More work less people to do it. I'll be watching my break times etc. like a hawk from now on..........

keefg

I am sooooooo glad to see the anti-intel comments on here.

I spent 2 and a half years as a lowly green badge (scum of the earth in the eyes of most blue badges) and I was so glad to get out of that kip. I spent more time in fcuking meetings in that place than anything else & when I was asked why I hadn't finished such & such a project I would say "because I spend 6 hours a day in meetings about meetings" which did not go down too well

Yeah Yeah, I know, there will be people who will come on here and bleat on about what a contribution intel has made as an employer in this country......and they are right, I made a LOT of money while I was there. Doesn't stop the place being a kip run be Middle Management W@nkers who spend far to much time in meetings kissing each others arses only to stab each other in the back at the first opp.

I wouldn't like to see it relocated to India or China etc because there are a lot of folk who rely on the place for a job, but maybe if they cleared out all the dead wood in there & locked up half of those fecking meeting rooms, it might be a more productive & cost effecient company and the decent people who are left (after management t0ssers have been fed to savage animals at Dub zoo) might enjoy working there more.

Phew.....end of rant.

Snake Plisken

yeah agree with both you guys comments, there was meetings about meetings in there, I think senior management saw that a couple of years back and tried to push for less meetings but then the dead wood middle managers had even less to do and justify their positions so decided to start going back to more meetings, agree also on the Focal comments, very unfair system, if your in well with a manager and lick their bums they'll look after you, if your not or you try to changes things in there or your manager doesn't like you then you'll suffer at focal.

Snake

doolox

On the subject of meetings my by-line is "I don't do meetings". When threatened with disciplinary stuff my usual reply is " I don't do fear".
There is nothing more this outfit can do to me that they have not already done.

In the general context of life and what other people put up with Intel isn't bad but as a career and part of life's work, fulfillment etc it sucks.
Example: There was a woman in our area who got a distinction in Diploma in electronic Eng. and was earning HALF of what her husband was earning in Tesco as a warehouse logistics supervisor with barely the Leaving Cert.....
Kinda makes you want to go all the way for an honours degree and that extra
€3,000 a year............When I hear the likes of Pat "the plank" Kenny rabbitting on about getting more people into technology and the sciences I want to scream. Tech and Science DONT PAY!!!!!

mathias

Tech and Science DONT PAY!!!!!

Wrong , its Intel that dont pay ... try wheedling out of your vendors what kind of money they are on for doing the same job as the MT's and you'll see what i mean.

the_syco

Just a quick question: what's it like working in Tech Support there? Easy as pie, good, bad, real bad?

doolox

I know one particular guy who went for a job in Tech Support after getting a degree in Information Technology and gave it up after 3-6 months and is back at his old job on shift in the clean-room etc because of the pressure of taking phone calls from people who wanted everything fixed NOW and don't understand how complex technology can be.

I used to do a technical, equipment related role a few years back in the FAB but couldn't hack the pressure when things went wrong and the backstabbers got the knives out looking for scapegoats.....in that role knowledge and confidence are key and This Company's policy on pay doesn't promote knowledge sharing or confidence building in any of its staff. Hence I made the move to operations and always make a point firstly of not demanding too much off support staff and secondly thanking them when they get the problem sorted and get me working again.

Tom Dunne

the_syco wrote:

Just a quick question: what's it like working in Tech Support there? Easy as pie, good, bad, real bad?

There were two types of tech support when I was there, general IT support which was your standard IT call center muck (basic office applications), and Automation Support (lots of very varied stuff, supporting the fabs, great experience).

IT support, I believe, is now gone, Automation Support is being reduced in status. It was very varied, with plenty of great experience to be obtained. When it was quiet, it was a case of Chinese and DVD's in the conference room, or mass Unreal Tournament competitions. When it was busy, it was hell. Overall, an excellent opportunity, great learning experience.

the_syco

tom dunne wrote:

IT support, I believe, is now gone, Automation Support is being reduced in status. It was very varied, with plenty of great experience to be obtained. When it was quiet, it was a case of Chinese and DVD's in the conference room, or mass Unreal Tournament competitions. When it was busy, it was hell. Overall, an excellent opportunity, great learning experience.

Yeah, the hell & UT sounds like the job I'm in when it's busy & quite. Looking into it, as it's only up the road (10 minute cycle), as opposed to the current 30 minute train + 1 hour bus journey each way.

ongarite

I work in Intel as a hated green badge vendor. In fact I would say I work for the most hated vendor in Intel.
Everything that has been said about the place is true. I see it all from my side of the fence and I couldn't see how I would work as Intel employee.
As mentioned there are meetings about meetings, SWATS, BUMS, focals, all that ****e. I find it hard to believe sometimes that the place even runs.

Oh and they charge more for food in the canteen for green badges. Evil people!!

Raskolnikov

tom dunne wrote:

There were two types of tech support when I was there, general IT support which was your standard IT call center muck (basic office applications), and Automation Support (lots of very varied stuff, supporting the fabs, great experience).

IT support, I believe, is now gone, Automation Support is being reduced in status.

Software based IT support is indeed gone form Ireland. The hardware based IT support is entirely outsourced to HP. The poor HP fookers are on absolutely terrible salaries with almost no perks. The experience isn't even any good as most of the support process is automated. Also, automation support has now been outsourced entirely as far as I know.

Raskolnikov

ongarite wrote:

Oh and they charge more for food in the canteen for green badges. Evil people!!

In fairness, that's not entirely true.

Intel give a small subsidy towards blue badge employees meals from the canteen. They scrapped that subsidy for green badges.

Try to get pally with a blue badge employee who's about to leave and you can get his/her subsidised canteen card

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

just curious: what is the difference between green and blue badges?

Tom Dunne

Raskolnikov wrote:

Also, automation support has now been outsourced entirely as far as I know.

No it hasn't.

Speaking to friends still working there, the IFO Automation stuff has been moved to Arizona. The Fab24 Automaiton support is still onsite. Though there are rumblings that the move to Arizona isn't working and that they are considering moving it back.

And to those who think green badges are hated, it's far from the truth. They are treated like second class citizens by management, but there never was any animosity between green and blue badges, at least not in my experience.

Tom Dunne

Roundtower2 wrote:

just curious: what is the difference between green and blue badges?

Blue work directly for Intel, Green work for a company contracted to Intel, so they are not directly employed by Intel.

keefg

Just out of interest......how many of you are complaining about Intel in this thread from your desk/laptop while working in that godforsaken place??

Watch out for those IT spies :cool:

milanac

Snake Plisken wrote:

Sounds Like his one of the Excellent Middle Management staff that makes it such a joy to work in Intel

Nope, not management type, been a tech for 3/4 yrs and going for the vsp.

Snake Plisken

milanac wrote:

Nope, not management type, been a tech for 3/4 yrs and going for the vsp.

Good man, get out while you can, theres such a thing as becoming Intelized, some companies want to bring that kind of culture to their companies most don't, 3-4 years experience is just right. Hope you get the VSP.

Snake

ongarite

Intelized=The Borg, you will be assimilated into the collective.

doolox

If you have not worked in any other place it is possible that you could become "intellised". People who have joined from school or college tend to fall into line with the company way of work and accept it. They either move up the ladder and embrace the intel philosophy or they stay at their highest achievable grade before the "improvement required " **** kicks in and accept it without effective resistance, because they know no better.
Those who come from another working background either retain a very independent way of working and get out when it is convenient for them to do so or lose their tempers with the whole game and walk out. One day 7 years ago 1 was able to write out a list of 22 technicians who left in the previous 5-6 years in my area across 2 shifts each with a compliment of 6 to 7 techs........
One has to ask oneself why free collective bargaining and collectivised pay agreements are used in most industries especially in Europe. My opinion is that you cannot trust management to appraise their direct underlings fairly and people accepted a standardised pay adjustment as being fairer and better for the working political climate overall. Individual assessment and appraisal leads to jealousy, resentment, cynicism, distrust of management, lack of teamwork or loyalty to the organisation, tendency to hoard information and experience instead of sharing it around for the benefit of all etc.

etrusco

I'm going for the package too...there will be more people going for it than will get it...thats when it all kicks off....

Snake Plisken

doolox wrote:

If you have not worked in any other place it is possible that you could become "intellised". People who have joined from school or college tend to fall into line with the company way of work and accept it. They either move up the ladder and embrace the intel philosophy or they stay at their highest achievable grade before the "improvement required " **** kicks in and accept it without effective resistance, because they know no better.
Those who come from another working background either retain a very independent way of working and get out when it is convenient for them to do so or lose their tempers with the whole game and walk out. One day 7 years ago 1 was able to write out a list of 22 technicians who left in the previous 5-6 years in my area across 2 shifts each with a compliment of 6 to 7 techs........
One has to ask oneself why free collective bargaining and collectivised pay agreements are used in most industries especially in Europe. My opinion is that you cannot trust management to appraise their direct underlings fairly and people accepted a standardised pay adjustment as being fairer and better for the working political climate overall. Individual assessment and appraisal leads to jealousy, resentment, cynicism, distrust of management, lack of teamwork or loyalty to the organisation, tendency to hoard information and experience instead of sharing it around for the benefit of all etc.

Great post Doolox, you pretty much summed up the system there. Having also worked in the old motherboard plant, I felt it was a nicer place to work, we worked hard played hard and there was decent banter among all groups at production meetings etc. But when the shut the place down and we moved to FAB it was a different story, poor team work little Hitlers as managers, and no real enjoyment of the work, compared to the MB plant it was like entering the Dark ages, lots of people who moved over left in the first couple of months. One of its Key values is "Great Place To Work" I think a lot of employees would disagree with that value.

Tom Dunne

Snake Plisken wrote:

Great post Doolox, you pretty much summed up the system there.

I wouldn't agree with you at all. Smells too much of unions. And we all know what Intel thinks of unions.

Snake Plisken wrote:

Having also worked in the old motherboard plant, I felt it was a nicer place to work, we worked hard played hard and there was decent banter among all groups at production meetings etc. But when the shut the place down and we moved to FAB it was a different story, poor team work little Hitlers as managers, and no real enjoyment of the work, compared to the MB plant it was like entering the Dark ages, lots of people who moved over left in the first couple of months. One of its Key values is "Great Place To Work" I think a lot of employees would disagree with that value.

There is/was a fundamental difference between the types of employees who were hired for the motherboard/assembly line work and those hired for Fab work. These types of employees were suited to their respective roles. Moving from generally low-tech, assembly work to high-tech fab type operations simply didn't suit a lot of the old ESSM employees and they therefore found the work culture quite difficult to adjust to. The assembly line work tended to be more regimental, less pressured (e.g. fixed breaks) vs. the fab style of continuous processing.

Personally, I found there to be a massive range of opportunities in the fab world which could be exploited by those that were willing to get up off their behinds and do something. Those that would rather sit back and moan simply didn't get anywhere.

Horses for courses, really.

Snake Plisken

Yeah well I wasn't talking about General Operatives on the boards Lines, I was talking about support organisations like Planning and Purchasing, IT etc.
Also even if you where on the same Grade as some of the people you transferred into they looked down their noses at you.

doolox

I wonder do people REALLY know what Intel thinks of unions or is it only the received, one sided, philosophy that all organisations put out for the consumption of their employees. It would be difficult to find even a heavily unionised organisation which would endorse union membership or encourage it. Most would prohibit it if they could get away with it. In this country trade union membership is protected by law and the constitution, you cannot be fired for joining a union. Most people in Intel accept the status quo because they are mostly school leavers who know no better. Up to now the economy has been good enough to allow Intel to operate individualised assessment and pay deals which lead to the type of work atmosphere I have described previously. If times get hard enough to reduce peoples living standards sufficiently then you will see change.
The contrast in pay and conditions between Intel and Unionised, especially public Service, employment is stark. For example prison officers take an average of 20 sick days a year. We get into trouble if we exceed the equivalent of 5 days a year. There is no cost of living pay rises in Intel. Pay is totally dependent on performance and very few are happy with the assessment. Note that recently the Aer Lingus workers when faced with a pay freeze calculated it as a 12% drop in real terms.....they perceive a 5% payrise for inflation as being a given right and add to it a benchmarking rise of 7%. We in Intel, unprotected as we are by any form of Union, cannot make these assumptions.
The man once said that real power is never given, it is taken. Same applies to trade union membership.

TheNog

i used to be a green badge up till a year and a half ago. to be honest the reason i left was 'cos the company i worked for were so bad it was unbelievable. many will know the american company working in fab 10 and 12 doing the cleaning???

i found the blue badge ppl really nice for the most part except the managers. suppose managers will be managers in any job. none seemed to have a clue but they seemed to have that one employee who was there crutch to help them get by

thankfully i'm now in a job that is totally unrelated to what i was doing and i'm much happier.

milltown

mukki wrote:

not worth the bother??? i'm getting paid money to not work in intel

Exactly what I'd be thinking!

I spent 8 months there with a vendor, probably not the worst vendor in Fab 24, and couldn't wait to get out. On the one hand I had decent (enough) money compared to the Intel techs. On the other hand I had ****ty management doing what Intel's ****ty management told them to do, or worse still, trying to predict what Intel would ask them to do. I had to pay more than Intel staff for dire canteen food. I often had to park at the far end of the plant and face a 10 minute walk to work due to lack of parking. I had Intel engineers asking me to "calibrate" tools out of calibration to meet certain metrics because they weren't allowed to make a call on when or how something should be fixed. And don't get me started on those protocol pr1cks.

I know a few companies who are very, very reluctant to hire ex-Intel techs because they are so institutionalised.

Anyone who can get out with a few quid in their pocket to tide them over while they look for a proper job....should.

doolox

Don't get me started on protocol. When I was new to the main fab I was sent to FAB 10 to collect some lots by hand. I was shouted at by an unknown but very aggressive woman who was carrying a clipboard and seemed to be on a inspection of some type. She kept shouting "protocol!" at me like a demented loon, I kept walking..........
I was sent back again 5-10 minutes later to get the wretched lot and she confronted me again demanding to look at my gloves.
I hadn't been told that it is forbidden to write on your gloves and all the techs in my area used to do it all the time but got away with it, keeping clean gloves or out of sight at inspection time.
She attempted to identify me ( we all carry badges ) to write my name down on her wretched clipboard but I kept on walking.
Other people have been upbraided in public like little children for not having their hood tucked in or other minor breaches of protocol.
Don't get me started on the narky engineers another species from which us techies have absolutely no protection. I nodded off one day on my break outside the fab and was roared at by an engineering type who grabbed my badge ( This constitutes assault by the way.......) identified me and looked up my supervisor ans reported me for sleeping on the job! There was no mention of his intemperate approach to the "problem" and I had no witnesses being in on a different shift but I was FORCED to e-mail an apology to him for the unforgivable "sin" of nodding off in an office cubicle ON MY BREAK.
I was so cut up about this, kept seeing enemies in every person in this wretched place that I had to get counselling outside of work and take two weeks off because the doctor reckoned I was traumatised by the whole incident. This guy doesn't even work for my functional area, whether I was asleep or not was not going to effect his work in the slightest. He did this reporting and fussing out of sheer malice. What really gets me is that my manager wasn't tough eneuogh to stand up for me and tell this article to take a hike. There is no protection in this place from such wretched bullies.

Fingers Mcginty

It's gonna be tough on us poor plebs who are left to cope with the extra work load. 2 green badges and one blue badge are heading soon from my cluster. That will only leave 5 of us techs.

nesf

doolox wrote: »

One has to ask oneself why free collective bargaining and collectivised pay agreements are used in most industries especially in Europe. My opinion is that you cannot trust management to appraise their direct underlings fairly and people accepted a standardised pay adjustment as being fairer and better for the working political climate overall. Individual assessment and appraisal leads to jealousy, resentment, cynicism, distrust of management, lack of teamwork or loyalty to the organisation, tendency to hoard information and experience instead of sharing it around for the benefit of all etc.

Collective bargaining also means the better people get shafted so the worst can get a leg up. Sure individual assessment has its problems but collective bargaining just rewards mediocrity which is something neither businesses nor employees should want. Why would you want to work in a place where (assuming you're good at your job) you won't be able to capture all your potential worth and only get the same raise as they guy next to you who's a muppet who can't do his job. It's not fairer or a better working climate (you normally end up with people not being arsed to make an effort and just doing the minimum necessary since their individual effort can't actually earn them any extra rewards).

Heaven forbid a company decides to reward people who put in the work/have the talent.

doolox

Latest update is I got the package and I'm out of here on the 16th November.
On the subject of collective bargaining and standardised payrises etc I have worked in American companies one of which had a standardised payrise buried in its employee appraisal scheme. The upshot was that everyone, unless they were completely static, got some sort of payrise to cover cost of living etc.
Impending payfreezes or demotions etc were well signposted and there was not the same level of resentment, bitterness that you get in Intel, in my opinion.
Intel operates much the same system but its implementation is much more aggressive and singles out slow performers for zero percent payrises a lot more than the previous employer. There is no cost of living rises whatsoever and this isn't even brought up at focal time. One is supposed to magically make the same pay go farther year by year although services such as canteen and VHI can go up 15%......
Most people I have talked to got rises like 1 or 2% so it doesn't even reward the conforming workers, given a 5% growth generally.
The thing about aggressively darwinian pay structures is although they might suit a small coterie of highly qualified high performers for a limited number of years eventually it will catch up with them and they will join the ranks of the average performers. This ability of rewarding the high performers is bought, in my opinion, by fostering bitterness,resentment, jealousy and lack of team-work in the other workers when they get no pay-rise. It is too high a price to pay and eventually will tear apart the company. It is obvious however since Intel has survived and thrived for 40 years that Multinational Corporations are not in the humanitarian frame of mind..............

nesf

I agree that completely individualised assessment can have it's issues if it is implemented aggressively, but a situation where everyone can only get the same pay rise as everyone else creates its own issues.

doolox

I see our esteemed leaders are to get around 14% payrise in the next round of pay increases.
This vindicates my opinion re: Living in Ireland. The cost of living is going up about 15% or so.
Anyone therefore getting rises of 2 or 3% or do, a majority in this outfit from what I can make out are actually getting a 10% pay cut...........
How can we compete with the likes of Bertie and co. for services,houses etc at that rate?
Answer is you can't

toiletduck

Wow, a lot of bad comments here! Just wondering are the people here who work for Intel based in Lexlip or Shannon? They came to our college last week looking for graduates for the Design Centre in Shannon. Anyone know what's it like to work there?

Tom Dunne

toiletduck wrote: »

They came to our college last week looking for graduates for the Design Centre in Shannon. Anyone know what's it like to work there?

The design center in Shannon was initially another company that Intel bought out. I believe it is a much smaller operation too, so I get the impression that working there is a helluva lot different from the main site in Leixlip.

toiletduck

Yeah that's kinda what I was thinking. Hmm, didn't know it was initialy a different company.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Intel in Shannon seem okay I think.

Got an interview there for a Software Engineer position after college, didn't get it though. Know of friends of friends that are there and they seem happy enough.

They were interested in me lately when I put my CV into a recruitment agency but wasn't too keen in going there.

Been working as a Software Engineer in the semiconductor industry for the last 2 years since graduation, wanted a change and also I have found it hard to have faith in the future of the semiconductor industry.

So to ask the question, how do you guys feel about the current state and the future of the semiconductor industry in this country?

ongarite

Very uncertain. 2 of the 3 FABs in Leixlip are on life-support, very very uncertain for them and FAB24 is in its quiet phase now.
All (employees) can do is hope that Intel Ireland wins the fight for process step, if not its gonna be ugly.

mathias

As a fab is a hugely expensive undertaking and not just a warehouse full of parts , and as F24 is a 300mm facility , I dont thinks its going anywhere soon ,
At the moment is producing mostly chipsets as opposed to the main processors , if it gets the next main processor technology , and rumours are it will , then its safe for another 5 years at least.

The big advantage for a fab here is the low corporate tax rate , Fabs produce high value components ( if its processors and not chipsets) and the 12% or so corp tax rate saves them 20% or so on the rate in any other competitive country , including eastern europe and china.

Employee pay is a tiny fraction of the money saved with the low corp tax rate , so that seems to indicate that Intel Ireland should be safe for a while.

The 200mm facilities here though are definitely in trouble , as its not cost effective , so if they are not revamped they wont last much longer , job cuts will not be far behind.

The bigger picture suggests that countries like ours , dragged out of poverty by Multinational manufacturers , must diversify into Service based economies if the good times are to continue , so I wouldnt base any plans on being any kind of manufacturing engineer as a career. Mulitnationals usually get the good tax rates for 10 years , after that they are gone.