Thinking of upgrading...soon!

py2006 · 15-09-2007 10:29am #1

Hi All,

My pc needs to be upgraded soon as its starting to strain to play the latest games. I wont be upgrading yet but I thought I would get some ideas from you guys as to what to get and not get etc. I tend to do alot of research etc before purchasing.

I currently have:

p4 3.2
Asus P4C800
1gb Ram
X800 Pro

I also have a dell 19" crt which is grand for games but takes up alot of space. I have always assumed LCD are usless for games because of ghosting etc. Is this still the case?

I also wont need keyboard, mouse, speakers etc as I have decent ones. Although I could be persuaded! :P

I would be grateful for suggestions and advice.

Cheers

8T8 · 15-09-2007 11:54am

LCD's (the good ones) are about on par with CRT's now though if you really aren't that pushed about it I would keep the CRT.

Well you could just update the graphics card to an X1950Pro and get 2GB of RAM and leave it at there (300 bucks). That you should keep you ticking over nicely without completely gutting the system.

A partial replacement system could be something like this (500 bucks);
Core 2 Duo E6550 (plenty of overclocking room if interested).
MSI P35 motherboard latest Intel chipset.
2GB of DDR-2 800 RAM.
GeForce 8600GTS GPU (performance wise about on par with the X1950Pro but with the Core 2 it would perform better than the P4/X1950pro.)

py2006 · 15-09-2007 4:06pm

8T8 wrote:

LCD's (the good ones) are about on par with CRT's now though if you really aren't that pushed about it I would keep the CRT.

Well you could just update the graphics card to an X1950Pro and get 2GB of RAM and leave it at there (300 bucks). That you should keep you ticking over nicely without completely gutting the system.

A partial replacement system could be something like this (500 bucks);
Core 2 Duo E6550 (plenty of overclocking room if interested).
MSI P35 motherboard latest Intel chipset.
2GB of DDR-2 800 RAM.
GeForce 8600GTS GPU (performance wise about on par with the X1950Pro but with the Core 2 it would perform better than the P4/X1950pro.)

Thanks for that! The extra ram would definitely help but I am thinking about getting Crysis and Bioshock etc. I am not sure how well they would run on that card?

nibble · 15-09-2007 8:57pm

py2006 wrote:

Thanks for that! The extra ram would definitely help but I am thinking about getting Crysis and Bioshock etc. I am not sure how well they would run on that card?

Not amazingly really, a budget would really help. Expect to fill it:D .

StRiKeR · 16-09-2007 12:32am

if you want to run Crysis and Bioshock nicely, you want to spend a bit more to go Core2 and a 8 series gfx card.

8T8 · 16-09-2007 8:59am

Well Crysis no-one can say really how it will fair, you can always tone down details/resolution but forced to take a guess it should run okay at a minimum.

Bioshock should be fine with it at 1024x768, the X1950Pro comes with 512MB over the normal 256MB so it will help for both titles .

py2006 · 16-09-2007 9:08am

nibble wrote:

Not amazingly really, a budget would really help. Expect to fill it:D .

Well I am not sure what budget will be yet so I guess it depends on what I need.

I will want a direct x 10 card I think?? Plenty of RAM and probably a new processor which will mean a new motherboard.

py2006 · 16-09-2007 1:03pm

Ok, I did a quick scan through Komplett and came up with this lot. It is probably a bit pricier (€1,004.91)than I am probably willing to spend but ya never know.

I'd probably need to dumb it down a bit.

white_falcon · 16-09-2007 1:09pm

py2006 wrote:

Ok, I did a quick scan through Komplett and came up with this lot. It is probably a bit pricier (€1,004.91)than I am probably willing to spend but ya never know.

Asus P5B, P965, Socket-775, ATX, GbLAN, 6xSATAII, PCI-Ex16

Crucial DDR2 BallistiX PC6400 2048MB CL4 ,Kit w/two BallistiX 1024MB's, E.P.P

Intel Core 2 Duo E6850 3.0GHz 1333Mhz Socket LGA775, 4MB, BOXED w/fan

XFX GeForce 8800GTX 570M 768MB GDDR3, PCI-Express, 2xDVI/HDTV/HDCP, 384-bit

jaysus that graphics card is overkill dude. for 200 less u can get this and its just as good - ud hardly notice the difference

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=327331

white_falcon · 16-09-2007 1:18pm

py2006 · 16-09-2007 1:22pm

white_falcon wrote:

jaysus that graphics card is overkill dude. for 200 less u can get this and its just as good - ud hardly notice the difference

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=327331

You sure? Its it Direct x 10?

py2006 · 16-09-2007 1:23pm

white_falcon wrote:

Heres my list im about to order now this week for a great gaming PC/music+video editing/home recording PC:

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=316737 (raptor HD)

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=333974 (4gigs nice ram)

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=330169 (quad core)

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=327672 (PSU)

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=114450 (2 x 500gig HDs)

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=338806 (22" Monitor)

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=326306 (Big case)

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=327331 (640mb gfx)

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=325859 (gaming mouse)

All of that comes to about 1300-1400 i think, but its totally worth it in my opinion

Looks sweet. I could get all that minus the raptor, monitor, case and mouse.

Although I was thinking of changing my monitor but I would leave that till last as I am not sure I trust lcds for games.

Have you got a nice motherboard for all that?

py2006 · 25-09-2007 11:05am

Hiya,

I am back again. I am still undecided and still reading reviews etc. Currently I am looking at:

Asus P5K, P35, Socket-775, DDR2, ATX, GbLAN, PCI-Ex16

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4GHz Socket LGA775, 8MB, BOXED w/fan

OCZ Gold XTC DDR2 PC6400 4096MB KIT, w/two 2048MB PC6400 XTC, CL5-5-5-15

EVGA GeForce 8800GTS KO ACS3 320MB GDDR3 , HDCP, PCI-Express, 2xDVI-I, 320bit

Hitachi Deskstar T7K500 500GB SATA2 16MB 7200RPM

Also, I read somewhere that 4gig of ram will not work on XP so I might have to get Vista? However, I also read that Vista has caused problems with some games.

I was thinking of getting the Home Premium OEM version from komplett but I am not sure should I go for the 32bit version or 64bit version.

py2006 · 25-09-2007 11:14am

white_falcon wrote:

Heres my list im about to order now this week for a great gaming PC/music+video editing/home recording PC:

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=316737 (raptor HD)

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=333974 (4gigs nice ram)

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=330169 (quad core)

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=327672 (PSU)

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=114450 (2 x 500gig HDs)

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=338806 (22" Monitor)

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=326306 (Big case)

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=327331 (640mb gfx)

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.aspx?sku=325859 (gaming mouse)

All of that comes to about 1300-1400 i think, but its totally worth it in my opinion

Hi White Falcon. Have you recieved your new pc and set it up yet? How is it working?

Anti · 25-09-2007 1:01pm

py2006 wrote:

Hiya,

I am back again. I am still undecided and still reading reviews etc. Currently I am looking at:

Asus P5K, P35, Socket-775, DDR2, ATX, GbLAN, PCI-Ex16

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4GHz Socket LGA775, 8MB, BOXED w/fan

OCZ Gold XTC DDR2 PC6400 4096MB KIT, w/two 2048MB PC6400 XTC, CL5-5-5-15

EVGA GeForce 8800GTS KO ACS3 320MB GDDR3 , HDCP, PCI-Express, 2xDVI-I, 320bit

Hitachi Deskstar T7K500 500GB SATA2 16MB 7200RPM

Also, I read somewhere that 4gig of ram will not work on XP so I might have to get Vista? However, I also read that Vista has caused problems with some games.

I was thinking of getting the Home Premium OEM version from komplett but I am not sure should I go for the 32bit version or 64bit version.

That build looks pretty good to me, the only thing i would change is the hdd, get the 500gb samsung spinpoint. Its much quieter and faster. Also for 4gb you will need vista 64bit. There are no problems with vista 64bit and games that are not easy to sort out. And by easy i mean its as simple as this.

Right click the game.exe file, click compatibility and choose winxp sp2. And blam, it works.

py2006 · 25-09-2007 2:56pm

Anti wrote:

That build looks pretty good to me, the only thing i would change is the hdd, get the 500gb samsung spinpoint. Its much quieter and faster. Also for 4gb you will need vista 64bit. There are no problems with vista 64bit and games that are not easy to sort out. And by easy i mean its as simple as this.

Right click the game.exe file, click compatibility and choose winxp sp2. And blam, it works.

Oh thats interesting. I have an Antec TruePower 550 watt psu. Do you think that would be ok?

nibble · 25-09-2007 7:07pm

py2006 wrote:

Hiya,

I am back again. I am still undecided and still reading reviews etc. Currently I am looking at:

Asus P5K, P35, Socket-775, DDR2, ATX, GbLAN, PCI-Ex16

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4GHz Socket LGA775, 8MB, BOXED w/fan

OCZ Gold XTC DDR2 PC6400 4096MB KIT, w/two 2048MB PC6400 XTC, CL5-5-5-15

EVGA GeForce 8800GTS KO ACS3 320MB GDDR3 , HDCP, PCI-Express, 2xDVI-I, 320bit

Hitachi Deskstar T7K500 500GB SATA2 16MB 7200RPM

Also, I read somewhere that 4gig of ram will not work on XP so I might have to get Vista? However, I also read that Vista has caused problems with some games.

I was thinking of getting the Home Premium OEM version from komplett but I am not sure should I go for the 32bit version or 64bit version.

Looks pretty good, I might change the Hitachi for a Samsung drive, just a bit cooler and quieter, your ears will thank you:D . I'd also stick with 2GB of ram atm for gaming/desktop use, the ballistix would be perfect.

py2006 · 25-09-2007 8:40pm

nibble wrote:

Looks pretty good, I might change the Hitachi for a Samsung drive, just a bit cooler and quieter, your ears will thank you:D . I'd also stick with 2GB of ram atm for gaming/desktop use, the ballistix would be perfect.

Well I was thinking of getting a 150g raptor now. I am not sure Samsung do them? Is the 2gb of Ram enough for the latest games?

jonny72 · 25-09-2007 9:06pm

I think if you want to try to save some money.. go ankermann-pc.com
experiment with the builds.. perhaps choose the mega-gaming pc and upgrade +1gb ram, processor and motherboard.. hdd too..

py2006 · 25-09-2007 10:50pm

I have revised my selection to bring down the price plus I added a monitor:

Samsung 20" LCD Syncmaster 206BW TCO03, 1680x1050, 2ms, 3000:1

Asus P5K SE, P35, Socket-775, DDR2, ATX, GbLAN, PCI-Ex16

EVGA GeForce 8800GTS 320MB GDDR3, HDCP, PCI-Express, 2xDVI-I, 320bit

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4GHz Socket LGA775, 8MB, BOXED w/fan

Samsung SpinPoint T166 500GB SATA2 16MB 7200RPM

Crucial DDR2 BallistiX PC6400 2048MB CL4 ,Kit w/two BallistiX 1024MB's, E.P.P

Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Eng OEM DVD 64bit

I decided to bring the RAM down to 2048mb as from a bit of research 4gb isn't recognised on Vista. People are only getting 2.5 - 3.5 on on even the 64bit version.

I was going to get a raptor drive but I will do that at a later stage.

And I downgraded the graphics card also.

I am not sure about motherboards at all. I just choose the one above at random.

Skittle · 26-09-2007 8:14am

Ok on the RAM thing, people are really getting the wrong end of the stick here.
Any 32-bit OS (XP or Vista) when installed on a machine with 4GB of RAM will only show 3.1~3.5GB of system RAM. This is because the max addressable memory is 4GB but that address space has to also handle video memory.

Any 64-bit OS (XP or Vista) will see the full 4GB of RAM, where ever you read that a 64bit OS can't see the full 4GB of RAM isn't worth the paper it's written on (providing all the RAM was working ok).

Another misconception about 64-bit OSes is that the driver support is crap or non-existent. This simply isn't true any more. I switched over to Vista 64 bit at the weekend and I have 64-bit drivers, for my graphics card, sound card, mouse and joystick.

Anti · 26-09-2007 9:05am

Skittle wrote:

Ok on the RAM thing, people are really getting the wrong end of the stick here.
Any 32-bit OS (XP or Vista) when installed on a machine with 4GB of RAM will only show 3.1~3.5GB of system RAM. This is because the max addressable memory is 4GB but that address space has to also handle video memory.

Any 64-bit OS (XP or Vista) will see the full 4GB of RAM, where ever you read that a 64bit OS can't see the full 4GB of RAM isn't worth the paper it's written on (providing all the RAM was working ok).

Another misconception about 64-bit OSes is that the driver support is crap or non-existent. This simply isn't true any more. I switched over to Vista 64 bit at the weekend and I have 64-bit drivers, for my graphics card, sound card, mouse and joystick.

QFT!

py2006 · 26-09-2007 10:40am

Skittle wrote:

Ok on the RAM thing, people are really getting the wrong end of the stick here.
Any 32-bit OS (XP or Vista) when installed on a machine with 4GB of RAM will only show 3.1~3.5GB of system RAM. This is because the max addressable memory is 4GB but that address space has to also handle video memory.

Any 64-bit OS (XP or Vista) will see the full 4GB of RAM, where ever you read that a 64bit OS can't see the full 4GB of RAM isn't worth the paper it's written on (providing all the RAM was working ok).

Another misconception about 64-bit OSes is that the driver support is crap or non-existent. This simply isn't true any more. I switched over to Vista 64 bit at the weekend and I have 64-bit drivers, for my graphics card, sound card, mouse and joystick.

Oh really? I bow to your superior knowledge on this as I really don't have a clue about this kind of stuff.

I spent a couple hours last night reading through forums and articles and alot of people are claiming that they are not getting the full 4gb.

Anti · 26-09-2007 11:01am

I did say the same thing on the last page

py2006 · 26-09-2007 11:15am

Anti wrote:

I did say the same thing on the last page

Oh yea.

I was up till 2am last night reading through various forums. My head is melted!

I am now considering getting a raptor drive as my main drive and perhaps getting a samsung sinpoint as a secondary drive.

Anti · 26-09-2007 11:56am

Yeah its a good option. The raptor 150 is very very very loud though. So if you plan on leaving the pc on in the room you sleep in , invest in some good earplugs. Or valium, as it will drive you insane. To be honest, the samsung spinpoint is just as quick, and quicker in some tests then the raptor 150, especially in game loading.

If you really want a raptor drive get a 36gb version just for windows. But dont install anything else on that drive, apart from drivers. Because windows will take up over 20gb its self ( vista )

py2006 · 26-09-2007 12:23pm

Anti wrote:

Yeah its a good option. The raptor 150 is very very very loud though. So if you plan on leaving the pc on in the room you sleep in , invest in some good earplugs. Or valium, as it will drive you insane. To be honest, the samsung spinpoint is just as quick, and quicker in some tests then the raptor 150, especially in game loading.

If you really want a raptor drive get a 36gb version just for windows. But dont install anything else on that drive, apart from drivers. Because windows will take up over 20gb its self ( vista )

Oh the confusion! I have people telling me to get raptor and others telling me not too! arghh!

Well I wont be having the pc on while on I am sleeping so I guess the noise wont be a bad thing!

py2006 · 26-09-2007 5:50pm

Ok this is where I am at now

That link should show my shopping cart! I have now included a sound card.

nibble · 26-09-2007 6:06pm

Looks perfect imo

, get it from hardwareversand.de you'll save money.

py2006 · 26-09-2007 6:26pm

nibble wrote:

Looks perfect imo , get it from hardwareversand.de you'll save money.

Really? The site looks a bit dodgy! Are they reliable? Delivery costs?

py2006 · 26-09-2007 8:44pm

Hmmm, just been browsing through them. They dont have the hard drives and they dont do RAM but the other stuff is slightly cheaper.

If I got the other stuff from them I would be saving €170. My only doubt would be their reputation and if I had to return a product etc

nibble · 27-09-2007 3:56pm

Very reputable company me and many others around here have bought from them, they do sell ram look harder;) . They don't have raptors but they do have every other drive. Just if you didn't know this already the new Samsung 750GB 32MB cache drives beat raptors in performance and obviously noise and capacity too.
Edit
They actually do have raptors, look in 2.5" Solid state disks, but like I said the samsungs are better in every way.

DanGerMus · 27-09-2007 7:33pm

py2006 wrote:

Hmmm, just been browsing through them. They dont have the hard drives and they dont do RAM but the other stuff is slightly cheaper.

If I got the other stuff from them I would be saving €170. My only doubt would be their reputation and if I had to return a product etc

I recommend them highly they have good customer service and the delivery is actually relativley cheap. I've ordered a few bits off them without issue. They do have ram just clik the english version button to make things easire for yourself then go pc components>>ram>>ddr2>>desktop

py2006 · 28-09-2007 8:26am

happygandalf wrote:

I recommend them highly they have good customer service and the delivery is actually relativley cheap. I've ordered a few bits off them without issue. They do have ram just clik the english version button to make things easire for yourself then go pc components>>ram>>ddr2>>desktop

How do you pay them?

DanGerMus · 28-09-2007 6:22pm

Bank Transfer. Ive done it with them it's perfectly safe. if you have online banking with AIB its easy. BOI is a little more awkward as you have to call them,BOI, during. IF you not online you go into the bank with the details and the cash and you fill out a form. I'v done both without issue.

py2006 · 28-09-2007 9:12pm

happygandalf wrote:

Bank Transfer. Ive done it with them it's perfectly safe. if you have online banking with AIB its easy. BOI is a little more awkward as you have to call them,BOI, during. IF you not online you go into the bank with the details and the cash and you fill out a form. I'v done both without issue.

Yea I have online banking with AIB! Do they take long to deliver?

py2006 · 29-09-2007 9:44pm

Ok this looks like my final spec. I will probably order it first thing Monday morning! How long do Komplett normally take to deliver?

Case
Cooler Master Mystique 631, Silver Steel

Motherboard
ABIT IP35-E, P35, Socket-775, ATX, SATAII, GbLAN, DDR2, PCI-Ex16

Processor
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4GHz

Memory
OCZ Gold XTC DDR2 PC6400 4096MB, CL5-5-5-15

Graphics Card
EVGA GeForce 8800GTS 320MB

Sound Card
Creative SB X-Fi Xtreme Gamer

Hard Drives
Western Digital Raptor 150GB SATA 16MB 10000RPM
Samsung SpinPoint T166 500GB SATA2 16MB 7200RPM

Operating System
Vista Home Premium Eng 64bit

Monitor
Samsung 22" LCD Syncmaster 226CW

Total: €1,851.01

PogMoThoin · 29-09-2007 9:59pm

Ati 512mb 2900 pro will be out any day, its an underclocked 2900xt but should clock as high as it. Would be nearly equivalent to 640mb 8800gts & only £170uk. Worth thinkin bout

py2006 · 29-09-2007 10:03pm

PogMoThoin wrote:

Ati 512mb 2900 pro will be out any day, its an underclocked 2900xt but should clock as high as it. Would be nearly equivalent to 640mb 8800gts & only £170uk. Worth thinkin bout

ahhhhh more options!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Tá mó head ag melted!

py2006 · 29-09-2007 10:16pm

PogMoThoin wrote:

Ati 512mb 2900 pro will be out any day, its an underclocked 2900xt but should clock as high as it. Would be nearly equivalent to 640mb 8800gts & only £170uk. Worth thinkin bout

I notice you have a smaller raptor drive! Is it worth my while getting a smaller one instead to just install vista on?

sdanseo · 29-09-2007 11:08pm

I'm gonna say just one thing:

XFX 8800GTX 570M €443
XFX 8800GTX 570M €535

No brainer much? Most other components are cheaper over there too (similar differences in GFX cards like 8800GTS, about €35 cheaper) and delivery seems to be a blanket €30.

nibble · 30-09-2007 3:19am

And just to throw something else out there, the 8800GT will be out by the end of Nov. It's a 512MB/256bit card seated just below the 8800GTS 640, price should be sub 250.

PogMoThoin · 30-09-2007 9:04am

py2006 wrote:

I notice you have a smaller raptor drive! Is it worth my while getting a smaller one instead to just install vista on?

Naw, I've got 2 x 36gb raptors in raid 0, have had them a while, newer spinpoints are faster & way less noisy plus theyre 2 small, 36gb (or even 2 of them) is not enough. My next purchase is a spinpoint

py2006 · 30-09-2007 12:38pm

sdonn_1 wrote:

I'm gonna say just one thing:

XFX 8800GTX 570M €443
XFX 8800GTX 570M €535

No brainer much? Most other components are cheaper over there too (similar differences in GFX cards like 8800GTS, about €35 cheaper) and delivery seems to be a blanket €30.

Ya but I want to pay via credit card rather than taking direct from my aib current account. Plus I feel more comformatable with komplett regards delievery etc. Not really sure why though!

sdanseo · 30-09-2007 3:22pm

py2006 wrote:

Ya but I want to pay via credit card rather than taking direct from my aib current account. Plus I feel more comformatable with komplett regards delievery etc. Not really sure why though!

Ha fair enough...you'll be needing €80 sometime though and be kicking yourself

Didn't know you couldn't pay by credit card on Hardwarversand though?

py2006 · 30-09-2007 8:57pm

sdonn_1 wrote:

Ha fair enough...you'll be needing €80 sometime though and be kicking yourself Didn't know you couldn't pay by credit card on Hardwarversand though?

Yea the Germans don't like credit cards apparently!

I could get half my stuff from them and half from komplett! but I would prefer to get all delivered at same time!

py2006 · 01-10-2007 11:01am

ooooh overclockers.co.uk are cheaper for some stuff :P

Although 66 sterling for delivery??? jaysus

nibble · 01-10-2007 8:14pm

py2006 wrote:

ooooh overclockers.co.uk are cheaper for some stuff :P

Although 66 sterling for delivery??? jaysus

Definately wasn't near 66 last time I ordered, and I had a good lot of heavy stuff on the order. Anyway don't order from them they're b*******. And you'll pay 1.5% foreign currency charge if you pay by card on any non euro site too.

py2006 · 01-10-2007 9:55pm

nibble wrote:

Definately wasn't near 66 last time I ordered, and I had a good lot of heavy stuff on the order. Anyway don't order from them they're b*******. And you'll pay 1.5% foreign currency charge if you pay by card on any non euro site too.

Well I just got my case (Antec P182 special edition) from them and the rest off Komplett!

nibble · 02-10-2007 7:07pm

py2006 wrote:

Well I just got my case (Antec P182 special edition) from them and the rest off Komplett!

Nice

.

py2006 · 02-10-2007 10:19pm

Just got my emails saying my stuff has been shipped! Oh the excitment of it all. I feel 16 again!

Memory
OCZ Gold XTC DDR2 PC6400 4096MB KIT,
w/two 2048MB PC6400 XTC, CL5-5-5-15
Motherboard
ABIT IP35-E, P35, Socket-775, ATX,
SATAII, GbLAN, DDR2, PCI-Ex16
Graphics Card
EVGA GeForce 8800GTS 320MB GDDR3, HDCP,
PCI-Express, 2xDVI-I, 320bit
Processor
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4GHz
Socket LGA775, 8MB, BOXED w/fan
Operating System
Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium Eng
OEM DVD 64bit
Hard Drive
Samsung SpinPoint T166 500GB SATA2
16MB 7200RPM
Sound Card
Creative SB X-Fi Xtreme Gamer Fatal1ty
Pro, 64MB, EAX ADVANCED HD
Monitor
Samsung 22" LCD Syncmaster 226CW,
1680x1050, 2ms, 3000:1
Case
Antec P182 Special Edition

Thinking of upgrading...soon!

Comments