getting into an acturial junior position...poor maths

easyontheeye

hi,

ive seen job adverts for trainee actuaries with IT experience and a computer science/engineering degree which i have. the only thing is my maths in my leaving cert is poor, i only got an A in ordinary level. i was thinking about doing maths part time and repeating that one subject at honours.

do you think this would be accepted as i didnt take it as part of my full leaving

damnyanks

Ring them up and ask ?

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

easyontheeye

you see when i was in school i put next to no effort in to maths. And when i went from the engineering diploma to the degree it was due to my maths that got me through. I was well able for it in college. So i'm kinda thinking i have the determination to go back at it... ill have to give it some thought

AARRRGH

Ah yeah, engineering maths is of course enough for being an actuary.

Once you've gotten through university maths you can forget about what you did for the leaving certificate. I also did pass maths for the leaving cert (out of sheer laziness) but excelled at maths in college (I did a maths + comp sci degree.)

Also, the maths used as an actuary can be learnt - like, they use the same formulas over and over - so the "you must be deadly at maths" thing is a bit of a myth.

easyontheeye

dublindude wrote:

Ah yeah, engineering maths is of course enough for being an actuary.

Once you've gotten through university maths you can forget about what you did for the leaving certificate. I also did pass maths for the leaving cert (out of sheer laziness) but excelled at maths in college (I did a maths + comp sci degree.)

Also, the maths used as an actuary can be learnt - like, they use the same formulas over and over - so the "you must be deadly at maths" thing is a bit of a myth.

i agree, but from what i seen, most companies still care about your leaving cert maths result :mad:

damnyanks

Well lets try and beat it out of you (Wanting to be an actuary).

It's one of these over-hyped jobs in Ireland (Like accountancy) where every semi-inteligent person thinks they will make a bundle of cash.

You'd have to do your training (Earning crap all) and then after that god knows - you'll earn nice money, but then again teachers earn nice money.

If you really want to get into it your leaving cert maths shouldnt hold you back. Just remember it's an A at leaving cert not a D

easyontheeye

i was looking at this job for example, it interests me.

http://www.irishjobs.ie/JobDesc.asp?ID=4625927&MID=726

ah well it was just an idea...

dudara

So where in that ad does it talk about Leaving Cert maths. It talks about degrees, which apparently you have. If you want to go for this, then apply. Be positive.

Running Bing

damnyanks wrote:

Well lets try and beat it out of you (Wanting to be an actuary).

It's one of these over-hyped jobs in Ireland (Like accountancy) where every semi-inteligent person thinks they will make a bundle of cash.

You'd have to do your training (Earning crap all) and then after that god knows - you'll earn nice money, but then again teachers earn nice money.

If you really want to get into it your leaving cert maths shouldnt hold you back. Just remember it's an A at leaving cert not a D

Tbh if Actuary and Accountancy are overhyped what jobsare'nt? They are pretty run of the mill money wise as far as graduate salaries/progression go's. In Ireland anyway.

damnyanks

Overhyped was the wrong word.

Just from my own experience, anytime I go back to Ireland - anyone inteligent on their way to a good degree wants to be an actuary or accountant "Cause they'll be ****in minted"

The_Hustler

Have you not seen the ads? Chartered accountants live the high life!

I found that ad quite funny, especially at the end where it has the boat and everything, and I'm on my way to becoming an accountant

8080

I don't think you meet the institute's standard, but ring them to check. I think you need an honours degree and a C at honours level.

http://www.actuaries.org.uk/Display_Page.cgi?url=/students/admissionregs.html

The level of maths isn't very high in the exams, about leaving cert level. The huge quantity is the problem!

AARRRGH

Accountants generally do have a good life

It's treated the same as Doctor, Solicitor & Architect when applying for a mortgage...

eth0_

Babybing wrote:

Tbh if Actuary and Accountancy are overhyped what jobsare'nt? They are pretty run of the mill money wise as far as graduate salaries/progression go's. In Ireland anyway.

Whaaat? Actuaries earn a FORTUNE! But then again, you'd need to be well compensated for such a dull job. I don't know why people become actuaries or accountants for any reason other than the potential earnings.

Pythia

Babybing wrote:

Tbh if Actuary and Accountancy are overhyped what jobsare'nt? They are pretty run of the mill money wise as far as graduate salaries/progression go's. In Ireland anyway.

Nope. Graduate actuaries earn far more than basically any other graduates.
I worked all summer on research on this, so I am well informed.
Actauries will get over 30k generally, depends on whether it's consultancy or something like insurance company. Accountants get around 23k in a big 4 place.
You wouldn't see more than 28 in banking.
Apart from something very degree specific, (medicine, vet, etc), you probably won't do better starting off (money-wise that is).

Slippers

There are some slightly obscure graduate positions which pay more and don't require a particular degree.

Susquehanna offer a €5,000 joining bonus and €55,000 salary for Assistant Traders. Job ad.
Aldi offer €56,000 and a "fully expensed Audi A4".

bafs4

forget about it doing actuary exams are ridiculous maths wise have a1 in physics chemistry maths applied maths in lc u dont stand a chance having done pass no offence stick with engineering did actuary in college its an awful long road otherwise up to ten years

bafs4

not a dull job you always work in llarge teams without pressure...doctor is far better with a granny telling u8 bout her itcy a**e

bafs4

not being insulting but those sushueanna jobs went to actuaries cause the guy in my year got if u riing them ask and they will probably veriify....do it and u make a bomb..one guy that in i banking in england with an actuary degree is on 300000 euro after two year but then again actuaries are generallly the smarstest of all professions

Fremen

Susquehanna offer a €5,000 joining bonus

Yeah, but they'll only hire you as a trader if you're ****-hot at maths. Speaking as someone who interviewed with them.

cronos

dublindude wrote: »

Ah yeah, engineering maths is of course enough for being an actuary.

Once you've gotten through university maths you can forget about what you did for the leaving certificate. I also did pass maths for the leaving cert (out of sheer laziness) but excelled at maths in college (I did a maths + comp sci degree.)

Also, the maths used as an actuary can be learnt - like, they use the same formulas over and over - so the "you must be deadly at maths" thing is a bit of a myth.

I have to say I think doing pass maths for leaving cert is the smart option. Leaving cert maths has 2 papers each of which takes longer to study for than a number of other subjects. I did 9 subjects for my leaving cert but that was because the points for the course I wanted to do were at about 300 at the time which I knew I could get farily easily so I wanted to cover some other subjects that I liked.

Fremen

cronos wrote: »

I have to say I think doing pass maths for leaving cert is the smart option. Leaving cert maths has 2 papers each of which takes longer to study for than a number of other subjects. I did 9 subjects for my leaving cert but that was because the points for the course I wanted to do were at about 300 at the time which I knew I could get farily easily so I wanted to cover some other subjects that I liked.

It's different for different people, really. I still use stuff I learned at leaving cert today, would have struggled a hell of a lot more in college if I had just done pass.

Fremen

actuaries are generallly the smarstest of all professions

Doubt it tbh...

cronos

Fremen wrote: »

It's different for different people, really. I still use stuff I learned at leaving cert today, would have struggled a hell of a lot more in college if I had just done pass.

Yes but if you never did pass how do you know the same topics werent covered. Of course they wouldnt be covered as indepth as at honours level. But after an engineering degree in which you did very well at maths I dont think Leaving Cert matters one bit. But I agree I am sure some people found it useful

bafs4

Do it but i agree the maths become routine after a while nevertheless the faculties of actuaries set ridiculously hard papers and first set a mark you must achieve and if too many achieve this they cut again...generally the pass rate is 30% appartly............so its a serious decision u will need to commit to 7 years minimum...more than likely ten

cronos

bafs4 wrote: »

forget about it doing actuary exams are ridiculous maths wise have a1 in physics chemistry maths applied maths in lc u dont stand a chance having done pass no offence stick with engineering did actuary in college its an awful long road otherwise up to ten years

Dont mean to be a prick or anything but perhaps you should have done honours English before the other LC subjects.

bafs4

got a d1 in pass english as u can probably guess im very poor at it...im only stating the facts ive seen guys fail at become a qualified actuary and its not nice...with bafs degrees in ucd

bafs4

Investment banking would be better and more money in it my cousin did pass maths and is making more than any actuary....banking isnt good at the moment though may take two years to sort itself out

Fremen

A couple of my mates from UCD engineering did some sort of a diploma in actuarial studies then got hired as trainee actuaries, so it's not impossible. I'd say give it a shot. What's the worst that could happen?

bafs4

the diploma is a good idea first but it costs 13000 or something and you can do a one or two year course.......the only problem is you need honours maths so u should ring dept of education and resit lc maths paper you still have two and a half months left which should be loads for one subject

cronos

bafs4 wrote: »

the diploma is a good idea first but it costs 13000 or something and you can do a one or two year course.......the only problem is you need honours maths so u should ring dept of education and resit lc maths paper you still have two and a half months left which should be loads for one subject

Thats interesting I did not know you could repeat individual subjects. I would have thought you would have to repeat the whole LC. But perhaps not.

bafs4

yes i no a guy that was in college with me that got sickin fifth year repeated it and sat two languages si he wouldnt have to do it in the lc...........You have to be really careful about making the decision to go down the actuarial route I assure you passing some of the exams is savage....and if you go on a role of failing one it can be very depressing....the diploma is mainly maths student in ucd so many of the modules they do before which makes it much easier for them the most exemption one of those got last year was 5 of of a total 15 and they wer the five easiest and its also meant to be easier get them through the college system

bafs4

http://www.actuaries.org.uk/Display_Page.cgi?url=/index.html

this will show you pass rates on exams and is the main actuarial website it also gives sample exams i think

Bluetonic

bafs4 wrote: »

not being insulting but those sushueanna jobs went to actuaries cause the guy in my year got if u riing them ask and they will probably veriify....do it and u make a bomb..one guy that in i banking in england with an actuary degree is on 300000 euro after two year but then again actuaries are generallly the smarstest of all professions

Walter Mitty? :rolleyes:

nesf

bafs4 wrote: »

actuaries are generallly the smarstest of all professions

You're forgetting about academics mate. Actuaries aren't anything really special really (you meet quite a few really smart guys in it who have good heads for maths but that's not unique at all). Now pure financial mathematicians on the other hand can be intimidating people. They make actuaries look "qualitative".

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

nesf wrote: »

You're forgetting about academics mate. Actuaries aren't anything really special really (you meet quite a few really smart guys in it who have good heads for maths but that's not unique at all). Now pure financial mathematicians on the other hand can be intimidating people. They make actuaries look "qualitative".

finance with a dolop of hard maths is my area, tbh i'd be still in awe of the maths skills of actuaries and economists. Having said that, the latter tend to focus on hard maths to the exclusion of actually making real world findings.

mikemac

bafs4 wrote: »

not being insulting but those sushueanna jobs went to actuaries cause the guy in my year got if u riing them ask and they will probably veriify....do it and u make a bomb..one guy that in i banking in england with an actuary degree is on 300000 euro after two year but then again actuaries are generallly the smarstest of all professions

Buddy, you've made a lot of posts here and I have to say they are very hard to read.
It's almost like you are thinking out loud and stringing the sentances together as you go along.

Anyways, 300,000euro after 2 years, wtf? :eek:

FernandoTorres

nesf wrote: »

You're forgetting about academics mate. Actuaries aren't anything really special really (you meet quite a few really smart guys in it who have good heads for maths but that's not unique at all). Now pure financial mathematicians on the other hand can be intimidating people. They make actuaries look "qualitative".

Like the financial mathematicians who have pretty much created the whole subprime crisis and credit crunch?

cronos

FernandoTorres wrote: »

Like the financial mathematicians who have pretty much created the whole subprime crisis and credit crunch?

Sure thats where that lad got 300,000 from.

FernandoTorres

cronos wrote: »

Sure thats where that lad got 300,000 from.

Ahh, it's all starting to come together now!:pac:

nesf

Roundtower2 wrote: »

finance with a dolop of hard maths is my area, tbh i'd be still in awe of the maths skills of actuaries and economists. Having said that, the latter tend to focus on hard maths to the exclusion of actually making real world findings.

It depends on the kind of economist but yeah, some of them seem to be under some delusion that they're studying physics.

FernandoTorres wrote: »

Like the financial mathematicians who have pretty much created the whole subprime crisis and credit crunch?

The kind of financial mathemeticians that I'm thinking about are the university researcher kind. Loads of people can be blamed for the subprime crisis and the credit crunch in fairness. Except for the accountants who seem to be clean this time.

ixus

Fremen wrote: »

Speaking as someone who interviewed with them.

@Fremen - Any chance you could elaborate on the interview process with them? Am seriously thinking of applying there in the Summer. Have been to their building on an open day and prop trading is where I want to go.

As far as I know, there's only Susquehanna, Geneva Trading & Saxon Financial in Dublin. Anyone know any others?

Ixus

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

nesf wrote: »

It depends on the kind of economist but yeah, some of them seem to be under some delusion that they're studying physics.

Must admit that's my pet peeve about most financial and regular economists. We should definitely aim to become more like psychologists than physics scientists in order to understand the markets and investors better.

Think it actually suits the more autistic economists to concentrate on maths to the exclusion of understanding people.

dudara

FernandoTorres wrote: »

Like the financial mathematicians who have pretty much created the whole subprime crisis and credit crunch?

As opposed to the greedy traders and the mortgage brokers who sold loans to high-risk people?

It's like the old arguments about guns, the people who make the guns are not to blame, it's the people who use the guns.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

dudara wrote: »

It's like the old arguments about guns, the people who make the guns are not to blame, it's the people who use the guns.

"Guns don't kill people, rappers do" [Goldie Lookin Chain]

/sorry

nesf

Roundtower2 wrote: »

Must admit that's my pet peeve about most financial and regular economists. We should definitely aim to become more like psychologists than physics scientists in order to understand the markets and investors better.

Think it actually suits the more autistic economists to concentrate on maths to the exclusion of understanding people.

I don't think going to the other extreme (ie psychology) is any better. Like it or not, economics straddles the divide between the heavily quantitative sciences and the other human sciences. It's the mesh of heavy maths and psychology that I find so interesting about it.

That and there's interesting philosophical material to ponder about where the line is.

FernandoTorres

dudara wrote: »

As opposed to the greedy traders and the mortgage brokers who sold loans to high-risk people?

It's like the old arguments about guns, the people who make the guns are not to blame, it's the people who use the guns.

Yeah I know there are plenty of people to blame for it but to use that gun analogy, the people who make the guns know that they're not going to be put to very good use so they can't completely clean themselves of the blood...this may be getting too metaphorical now! :pac:

nesf

FernandoTorres wrote: »

Yeah I know there are plenty of people to blame for it but to use that gun analogy, the people who make the guns know that they're not going to be put to very good use so they can't completely clean themselves of the blood...this may be getting too metaphorical now! :pac:

Personally I blame people who sell them bullets.

cronos

nesf wrote: »

Personally I blame people who sell them bullets.

I blame the guy who came up with the idea of bullets. :pac:

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

cronos wrote: »

I blame the guy who came up with the idea of bullets. :pac:

i blame the people who gave birth to the people who came up with the idea of bullets - damn sex maniacs