loud cars

spanky900

think its time to stop giving out about loud exhausts on cars
give boy racers and girl racers a break
they spend thousands on their cars just to be told by the NCT centres they cant have tinted windows or modifed exhausts on their cars
these cars enthusiasts are not down the pub of a saturday night getting drunk then going out and driving home, instead they are at a car meet polishing the cars.
everyone gives out about them when they hear a car crash on tv or radio and someone is dead, but here is a taught its not these cars modifed you see in a hedge or crushed on the side of the road.
so why are people trying to stop them by doing stupid things with NCTS.
if anyone is intersted im trying to stop these new NCT rules from coming in so any help would be great.

DonJose

I laugh everytime I see a modified car, they look so stupid, the more money spent, the worst they look. Don't get me started on the actual drivers...

lafors

DonJose wrote:

I laugh everytime I see a modified car, they look so stupid, the more money spent, the worst they look. Don't get me started on the actual drivers...

Bit harsh there, I agree with you to some extent, the cars do tend to look ridiculous more often than not, but each to their own. The OP is right about the accidents etc, rarely do you see a modified car in a hedge or in bits after an accident on the news. They usually don't drink they spend so much on their cars (not that drink driving is the only cause of accidents).

On the exhausts, if they are performance related then fine but if they are just to make noise then fair enough get them removed. If noise is a problem then target mopeds, they are some loud pieces of junk

Dunno if anyone heard the lad on the radio last thursday (about 9am) who was supposed to be reprsenting modified car enthusiasts but he did nothing to help. He was pretty much saying they put loud exhausts on to get people to look at him in his car!!

Stupid idea for a law/rule whatever. If you complain about the noise.....get a life, and a set of earplugs.

DonJose

lafors wrote:

Bit harsh there, I agree with you to some extent, the cars do tend to look ridiculous more often than not, but each to their own.

Its like the boy racers don't know when to stop adding things to the car. Another thing I laugh at are the sun screens, especially the ones with KENWOOD or PIONEER, do these companies sponser the boy racers or what!!!

lafors

DonJose wrote:

Its like the boy racers don't know when to stop adding things to the car. Another thing I laugh at are the sun screens, especially the ones with KENWOOD or PIONEER, do these companies sponser the boy racers or what!!!

Best sunscreen is

MICKO on one side and MARY on the other (just random names)

Henry Ford III

I'm not a fan of needlessly loud anything tbh, including cars.

I honestly cannot see why the public and/or the authorities should give boy racers/modders a break.

My view is a large percentage of this group of drivers commit insurance fraud daily, by not disclosing mods. If they did what they should and made full disclosure, quite a few I'd imagine would have their cover cancelled, or made so expensive it'd become uneconomic.

As things are the ordinary motorist effectively discounts these uninsured modders, and I'd prefer that not to be the case.

Steve

My view is a large percentage of this group of drivers commit insurance fraud daily, by not disclosing mods. If they did what they should and made full disclosure, quite a few I'd imagine would have their cover cancelled, or made so expensive it'd become uneconomic.

Modified exhaust adds less than €40 to the annual premium. Similar for modified suspension.
If these guys are spending €1000's on their cars / alloys / body kits, I'd guess they are also spending the extra few bucks to insure them.

maidhc

DonJose wrote:

I laugh everytime I see a modified car, they look so stupid, the more money spent, the worst they look. Don't get me started on the actual drivers...

Depends on what you mean by modified! I drive a highly modified car at the weekends, and whenever I feel like a change from my perfectly standard Focus.

The car in question has had
a) A larger engine
b) Modified camshaft
c) Aftermarket exhaust
d) Aftermarket manifold
c) Bigger carb
d) Uprated brakes all round

It still looks like a perfectly standard Ford Capri though with a Black Vinyl roof and a rather fetching shade of blue!

Henry Ford III

stevec wrote:

Modified exhaust adds less than €40 to the annual premium. Similar for modified suspension.
If these guys are spending €1000's on their cars / alloys / body kits, I'd guess they are also spending the extra few bucks to insure them.

I'd guess they aren't.

How much for uprated engines be it chipped or big turbo, rollcages, spoilers, and racing brakes? How much extra for purely cosmetic things that make a car more attractive to a theif - ICE, alloys, fancy paint?

We'll never know the extent of this as by nature these things are not declared.

p.s. What about the ads we all read "For sale - Glanza 1.3 turbo - chipped to 200bhp, but shown as 1.3 on log book"?

what_car

spanky900 wrote:

think its time to stop giving out about loud exhausts on cars
give boy racers and girl racers a break
they spend thousands on their cars just to be told by the NCT centres they cant have tinted windows or modifed exhausts on their cars
these cars enthusiasts are not down the pub of a saturday night getting drunk then going out and driving home, instead they are at a car meet polishing the cars.
everyone gives out about them when they hear a car crash on tv or radio and someone is dead, but here is a taught its not these cars modifed you see in a hedge or crushed on the side of the road.
so why are people trying to stop them by doing stupid things with NCTS.
if anyone is intersted im trying to stop these new NCT rules from coming in so any help would be great.

hope the NCT does actually stop this crap, those exhausts are so stupid and loud.. when i see cars like that i just laugh... so funny seeing a big exhaust on a 1.0L car..

only a fool would spend thousands throwing stuff on a car thats already loosing value....

rkeane

The book should be thrown at those knackers......the majority of them drive like utter scum.

craichoe

Tinted windows are grand, its the amount of tint thats the problem, so dark that you cant see out the bloody windows is ridiculous.

Modified exhaust for increased performance is fine on a Capri or a Celica or something, but when you see it on a micra or a punto and he's racing past you at 30mph with a noise that would rattle the teeth out of your head thats stupid.

tuxy

And how much extra performance would one of these exhausts give to a Celica?

Steve

craichoe wrote:

but when you see it on a micra or a punto and he's racing past you at 30mph with a noise that would rattle the teeth out of your head thats stupid.

LOL and the moped that he's overtaking is making even more noise..:p

Steve

tuxy wrote:

And how much extra performance would one of these exhausts give to a Celica?

Up to 10bhp - normally combined with a cold air induction kit.
The induction system alone makes as much noise as the exhaust so banning loud exhausts alone will make little difference.

musiknonstop

Let them keep the noisy exhausts, just don't drive in residential areas after 11:30 pm.

smash

you don't see the government going after hells angels bikers for having very very loub bikes.... these are a lot worse than any car exhaust I've heard.

layke

As much as the gov would love to go to war on us there's enough of us to go to war with them.

layke

Henry Ford III wrote:

I'm not a fan of needlessly loud anything tbh, including cars.

I honestly cannot see why the public and/or the authorities should give boy racers/modders a break.

Because a lot of old people moan, old people who never had the money for cars or parts. These old people are the voters therefore they get what they want.

My view is a large percentage of this group of drivers commit insurance fraud daily, by not disclosing mods. If they did what they should and made full disclosure, quite a few I'd imagine would have their cover cancelled, or made so expensive it'd become uneconomic.

Some do, in fairness if the mods added were actually priced fairly that problem would be eliminated and I see in another thread some people do get propper prices shame it doesn't go for all of us. If I bought a 1.4 civic and added an induction kit and exhaust system why should my car become uninsurable? for the whole 20bhp you'll gain it just doesn't make sense at all.

Robbo

spanky900 wrote:

these cars enthusiasts are not down the pub of a saturday night getting drunk then going out and driving home, instead they are at a car meet polishing the cars.

I really can't get behind this line that "modifiers spend all their money on their cars, so how could they possibly drink". It gets trotted out frequently as if to give moral leverage to the motoring otakus amongst us, were their Micawber-esque financial outlays symbolic of some form of unconditional love for a 12 year old Japanese coupe.

This is not the way to Bowdlerise your hobby.

I've only ever met one modder who didn't drink. And she was the kind of person was probably just complying with a court order by not drinking.

Henry Ford III

layke wrote:

Because a lot of old people moan, old people who never had the money for cars or parts. These old people are the voters therefore they get what they want. What utter rubbish! We all have one vote each btw. I think your reference to "old people" is in bad taste btw.



Some do, in fairness if the mods added were actually priced fairly that problem would be eliminated and I see in another thread some people do get propper prices shame it doesn't go for all of us. If I bought a 1.4 civic and added an induction kit and exhaust system why should my car become uninsurable? for the whole 20bhp you'll gain it just doesn't make sense at all.

Fairly? the parts or the insurance hike? Insurance rates are set by insurers based on amongst other things their claims experience. It doesn't matter whether a modder thinks they are fair or not. They are what they are.

To me a big exhaust, induction kit, chipping etc. signify a desire for extra performance and therefore speed. Faster cars cost more to insure, which is quite fair. 20bhp on top of a standard maybe 80bhp is a big gain btw.

My rebuttal.

maidhc

Robbo wrote:

I've only ever met one modder who didn't drink. And she was the kind of person was probably just complying with a court order by not drinking.

Nothing wrong with drinking. Most people get completely sh1tfaced every so often. Only problem is when the go driving too.

If you mod cars (even by putting on Halfrauds crap) you probably like cars. if you like cars you probably like driving. If you like driving you probably won't want to loose your licence.

layke

A lotof us drink but if any of the guys I know admited to drinking and driving the others would give out **** to him. Ergo, they/we don't so it. Can't speak for everyone but it seems to be the general trend in the circles I came from.

As for Henry, you're right everyone after 18 has a vote. Thing is I didn't give a hoot about politics until I got a little bit older. If you look at the average age of the voters you'll see senior citizens are the most frequent voters.

If you honestly think an extra 20bhp should mean your insurance should jump 1k because the car is moddified when you can just go out and buy a car just as powerful for less insurance? If that's your thinking please tell me how it's fair? Or even reflects these magic figures that the insurance companies don't show the public?

Stokolan

what_car wrote:

hope the NCT does actually stop this crap, those exhausts are so stupid and loud.. when i see cars like that i just laugh... so funny seeing a big exhaust on a 1.0L car..

only a fool would spend thousands throwing stuff on a car thats already loosing value....

It wont make a difference if the NCT does try and stop it as all they'll do is pop on a stock exhaust when there sending it in for the NCT and then pop the moddified back on after words. They're already doing it with the cat.

layke

I'd also like to point out a lot of us just put it through the NCT and pass just fine with our mods. Unless the NCT test centres print exactly what each part of the car does I don't see how a Guard will tell the difference as to what has been done to it.

maidhc

layke wrote:

As for Henry, you're right everyone after 18 has a vote. Thing is I didn't give a hoot about politics until I got a little bit older.

Don't complain about the laws that are passed or the people who pass them then!

layke wrote:

If you honestly think an extra 20bhp should mean your insurance should jump 1k because the car is moddified when you can just go out and buy a car just as powerful for less insurance? If that's your thinking please tell me how it's fair? Or even reflects these magic figures that the insurance companies don't show the public?

As pointed out, modifications can illustrate a persons state of mind.

Henry Ford III

layke wrote:

As for Henry, you're right everyone after 18 has a vote. Thing is I didn't give a hoot about politics until I got a little bit older. If you look at the average age of the voters you'll see senior citizens are the most frequent voters.

If you honestly think an extra 20bhp should mean your insurance should jump 1k because the car is moddified when you can just go out and buy a car just as powerful for less insurance? If that's your thinking please tell me how it's fair? Or even reflects these magic figures that the insurance companies don't show the public?

So what about the voters? If the youngest voters don't bother it's their own fault surely?

I never said insurance should jump €1k. That's up to the individual insurer. If you're not happy with what you are being quoted shop around. If all the prices are high due to mods then you must simply cough up. Insurers don't have to tell you the basis of their premium claculations. They have no obligation to do so.

The modified car scene gets lots of negative press, and more than some of it is entirely justified and fair.

Matt Simis

This thread have devolved as usual into one group of people generalizing another group.

Exhausts of XdB (whatever the EU "norm" is, cant recall and not googling) should be banned, modified or not. I have a highly modified, high BHP car, but to look at and just as important, listen to, you wouldnt think its quite the bullet train it really is.

This was 100% intentional but to be totally honest I didnt do it because Im the most socially responsible individual, I did it this was as I find noisily, gaudy cars distasteful. And because a segment of "car enthusiasts" aren't thinking of their neighbors and other road users we need a law and specifically enforcement of a dB limit.

Its nothing to do with coming down hard on one group and giving breaks to others based on age, income etc etc.

Henry Ford III

Good call Matt. Very fair.

How much does a 400bhp car cost to insure btw?

Matt Simis

Henry Ford III wrote:

Good call Matt. Very fair.

How much does a 400bhp car cost to insure btw?

EUR1920 with XS Direct (and their usual 4k excess) all declared. Basically a EUR900 premium on what they usually charge. Which is "ok" I guess.

Henry Ford III

Matt Simis wrote:

EUR1920 with XS Direct (and their usual 4k excess) all declared. Basically a EUR900 premium on what they usually charge. Which is "ok" I guess.

Not too bad actually.

layke

Henry Ford III wrote:

So what about the voters? If the youngest voters don't bother it's their own fault surely?

I never said insurance should jump €1k.

But it does and worse.

That's up to the individual insurer. If you're not happy with what you are being quoted shop around. If all the prices are high due to mods then you must simply cough up. Insurers don't have to tell you the basis of their premium claculations. They have no obligation to do so.

Well, if you want uninsured modding to stop this is how it has to be. Remember the 70's and 80's everyone on uninsured bikes because the ensurance was too high? Same problem as here. If a company doesn't want to show me how it gets it's figures yet deems it acceptable to charge someone 7k on a 1.4i civic (basically saying F-OFF) you will get people driving uninsured.

The modified car scene gets lots of negative press, and more than some of it is entirely justified and fair.

Bollocks. It's an easy target for the media, the same goons who would label me a 'boy racer'.

Henry Ford III

Btw I spent a few minutes on Carzone, looking at Glanza Turbo's with "1.3 on log book".

http://www.usedcars.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=756925
http://www.usedcars.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=745384

This next one has 180bhp and 200bhp in the same ad and is "fastest n/a 1.6 engine cheap insurance"

http://www.usedcars.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=636327

This next one is particularly up front

http://www.usedcars.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=719201

http://www.usedcars.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=627792
http://www.usedcars.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=780950

siralfalot

Matt Simis wrote:

This thread have devolved as usual into one group of people generalizing another group.

Exhausts of XdB (whatever the EU "norm" is, cant recall and not googling) should be banned, modified or not. I have a highly modified, high BHP car, but to look at and just as important, listen to, you wouldnt think its quite the bullet train it really is.

This was 100% intentional but to be totally honest I didnt do it because Im the most socially responsible individual, I did it this was as I find noisily, gaudy cars distasteful. And because a segment of "car enthusiasts" aren't thinking of their neighbors and other road users we need a law and specifically enforcement of a dB limit.

Its nothing to do with coming down hard on one group and giving breaks to others based on age, income etc etc.

personally nothing sounds worse than a car with an exhaust that is to big for it, infact these systems usually retard the performance of the cars, the Idiots that fit them seem to lack the brain power to realise this.

actual performance cars are a different story, I had a spin a TVR Tuscan S on Sunday, 400bhp and very loud as standard, it sounded glorious, my next car will either be a TVR Tuscan, Cerbera, or a Maserati 3200GT. I like my cars and music loud, its personal taste
one of my closest neighbours lives a mile away, every morning he wakes me at 7am by starting his Harley Davidson, I love it, who needs an alarm clock?

layke

Aye, i'd well beleive it but unfortunately until insurance companies are made lower their prices this is what you'll get. Not blaming them, it's their CEO's job to keep the investors happy.

Do you know how hard it is to test the capacity of an engine? I know with a Honda one I can simply change the top plate to make a 1.6vtec look like a 1.4.
You have to literally map the engine to find out what it is. Pretty damn hard if you tell me. Besides, the NCT is currently a tax.

siralfalot

Henry Ford III wrote:

Btw I spent a few minutes on Carzone, looking at Glanza Turbo's with "1.3 on log book".

http://www.usedcars.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=756925
http://www.usedcars.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=745384

This next one has 180bhp and 200bhp in the same ad and is "fastest n/a 1.6 engine cheap insurance"

http://www.usedcars.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=636327

This next one is particularly up front

http://www.usedcars.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=719201

http://www.usedcars.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=627792
http://www.usedcars.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=780950

whats wrong with those? now I hate Glanzas, but I see nothing wrong with those ads?

Matt Simis

siralfalot wrote:

whats wrong with those? now I hate Glanzas, but I see nothing wrong with those ads?

Lol, they all mention how they are recorded incorrectly in the "log book"!

Henry Ford III

siralfalot wrote:

whats wrong with those? now I hate Glanzas, but I see nothing wrong with those ads?

To me they all say something along the lines of......

Glanza Turbo....but only 1.3 on the log book.

There is nothing in itself wrong with that, but there seems to be a very clear indication that a prospective purchaser could/need not declare the turbocharger etc. and commit fraud.

The ad. that talks about a 200bhp 1.6 n/a...cheap insurance is pretty blatant.

Henry Ford III

layke wrote:

Aye, i'd well beleive it but unfortunately until insurance companies are made lower their prices this is what you'll get. Not blaming them, it's their CEO's job to keep the investors happy.

Do you know how hard it is to test the capacity of an engine? I know with a Honda one I can simply change the top plate to make a 1.6vtec look like a 1.4.
You have to literally map the engine to find out what it is. Pretty damn hard if you tell me. Besides, the NCT is currently a tax.

It's a free market layke, and they can quote whatever they wish. Just because you don't like it doesn't give you or anyone else the right to drive uninsured or with undeclared mods.

One of the basic principles of Insurance is utmost good faith. It's up to you to tell your insurer any material fact that would reasonably alter their assessment of the risk. That would include mods undertaken after the policy was effected too.

It's not up to them to catch you. It's your responsibilty to be honest.

NCT is a completely separate issue.

Mullie06

Right

Get my say in here

I don't see anything wrong with having an Aftermarket exhaust on a car once it Isn't too loud I go agree with some posters on this topic about having big coffee can exhausts on the back of 1.1 Puntos is Silly unless the car is nicely Styled and where the exhaust would be a visual mod.

I think what is needed in this country is to introduce a decibal test as part of the NCT and for modified cars to have some form of enigneers report done (for lowered suspension enigne work)

Next is a induction kit and a Exhaust will give **** all gains on a 1.4 Civic you would lucky if you got 4 bhp let alone 20bhp and somebody metioned chipping a Glanza to 200bhp this would require a good bit of work New Exhaust Air Intake Front mount intercooler bigger injectors new Turbo etc its alot of work to bring a GT or GLanza to the 200bhp.

Most Jap cars are loaded for young male drivers because of muppets putting them down as 1.3's and 1.4's on the insurance I was looking around for my first car there a few weeks ago and most of the cars I was looking at where Japanese (Corollas,Colts,Civics etc) now I knew it would be dear on a Civic but some of the quotes where a joke like 2,600 on a 1l Starlet (Was 2,650 on a 1.9 306 D Turbo) it was 2,200 on a 1.2 Corsa

I think this poster hit the hit the nail on the head when he siad

Robbo wrote:

I really can't get behind this line that "modifiers spend all their money on their cars, so how could they possibly drink". It gets trotted out frequently as if to give moral leverage to the motoring otakus amongst us, were their Micawber-esque financial outlays symbolic of some form of unconditional love for a 12 year old Japanese coupe.

This is not the way to Bowdlerise your hobby.

I've only ever met one modder who didn't drink. And she was the kind of person was probably just complying with a court order by not drinking.

Thats about it

layke

Henry Ford III wrote:

It's a free market layke, and they can quote whatever they wish. Just because you don't like it doesn't give you or anyone else the right to drive uninsured or with undeclared mods.

One of the basic principles of Insurance is utmost good faith. It's up to you to tell your insurer any material fact that would reasonably alter their assessment of the risk. That would include mods undertaken after the policy was effected too.

It's not up to them to catch you. It's your responsibilty to be honest.

NCT is a completely separate issue.

I'm agreeing with you. But the fact is people will still drive uninsured (be it false details or just not bothering) if they can't get cheap insurance. To be fair Mary Harney did make premiums lower a few years back after the insurance industry showed their yearly profits were through the roof.

/edit Mullie, my car (when it was a 1.4) got a gains boost from 90 to 108bhp with an induction kit, shortened manifold and exhaust. That's a 20% power boost.

Mullie06

spanky900 wrote:

think its time to stop giving out about loud exhausts on cars
give boy racers and girl racers a break You Should of used the Term Modified car enthusiast

they spend thousands on their cars just to be told by the NCT centres they cant have tinted windows or modifed exhausts on their cars
Tints are legal once they let a certain amount of light in Exhausts can pass the NCT once they pass the emissions test but in the eyes of the law modified exhausts are illegal (Road traffic act 1964 or something like that)

these cars enthusiasts are not down the pub of a saturday night getting drunk then going out and driving home, instead they are at a car meet polishing the cars. ALOT of those car enthusiasts are in the pub and clubs on a Friday Saturday Night but I'm not saying All of them are Drink Driving and have you ever tried polishing a car at night

everyone gives out about them when they hear a car crash on tv or radio and someone is dead, but here is a taught its not these cars modifed you see in a hedge or crushed on the side of the road. There was a Skyline Crashed in Westmeath a few weeks back two lads died I know lots of lads that have crashed there cars and a good few where modified

so why are people trying to stop them by doing stupid things with NCTS.
if anyone is intersted im trying to stop these new NCT rules from coming in so any help would be great. Sure there not goingto ban them this topic comes up every year look what happened Ivor Calley Wouldn't worry about it

Meant to do this in My last post but fogot

tuxy

layke wrote:

/edit Mullie, my car (when it was a 1.4) got a gains boost from 90 to 108bhp with an induction kit, shortened manifold and exhaust. That's a 20% power boost.

Would love to see the dyno printout before and after. If this is true Honda should be ashamed of themselves.

Mullie06

layke wrote:

/edit Mullie, my car (when it was a 1.4) got a gains boost from 90 to 108bhp with an induction kit, shortened manifold and exhaust. That's a 20% power boost. .

WTF is a shortened I have heard of a 4-2-1 Manifold and a 4-1 Manifold but if it was shorted how would it fit from the black to the Exhaust

I'd also like to see the Dyno Sheet

Henry Ford III

My dad is bigger than your dad

spanky900

As i guessed it would be a mixed response
would like to thank those that replied
getting some ideas from the posts
like insurances companys let the NCT centres have a list of what cars that fall under
high performance eg
honda civic 1.6 dohc vti
toyota celica 2lt or gt4
another thing would be to have the insurance companys to check the cars and log books to see if they match like 1.3 on log book when its a gt turbo
these are only some ideas so if ya want to help with this campaign to make a difference

jackofalltrades

layke wrote:

Well, if you want uninsured modding to stop this is how it has to be. Remember the 70's and 80's everyone on uninsured bikes because the insurance was too high? Same problem as here. If a company doesn't want to show me how it gets it's figures yet deems it acceptable to charge someone 7k on a 1.4i civic (basically saying F-OFF) you will get people driving uninsured.

I don't see the comparison there, even up until recently it was hard to get insured on any type of bike whatsoever, and even if you could, you could be faced with quite a large premium for a very small bike.

Its quite easy now to get insured on a car, getting insured on a specific type of car is a luxury, its not like you're faced with driving uninsured or being off the road.

spanky900 wrote:

another thing would be to have the insurance companys to check the cars and log books to see if they match like 1.3 on log book when its a gt turbo

Aren't most GT Turbo starlets out there fitted with a 1.3 litre engine?

spanky900

the are fitted with a 1.3lt engine but does not say on most log books its a turbo

elexes

i dont honestly se what the problom is . me switching out my exhaust will not change the way i drive . it dosnt matter what car im driving i will always do the same things

at the moment ive done a lot of work to the engine / suspension / breaks of my car and do like to drive it . to date i havent had the car on a track yet but thats what im building the car for . if this new exhaust law comes in and simply says " any aftermarket exhaust system is not road worthy " then simply ill be buying a trailer to get my car from place to place and possibly buying some sort of tvr .

Matt Simis your paying to much for your insurance .

furtzy

layke wrote:

/edit Mullie, my car (when it was a 1.4) got a gains boost from 90 to 108bhp with an induction kit, shortened manifold and exhaust. That's a 20% power boost.

Would also like to see the dyno printout on this

Henry Ford III

elexes wrote:

i dont honestly se what the problom is . me switching out my exhaust will not change the way i drive . it dosnt matter what car im driving i will always do the same things

at the moment ive done a lot of work to the engine / suspension / breaks of my car and do like to drive it . to date i havent had the car on a track yet but thats what im building the car for . if this new exhaust law comes in and simply says " any aftermarket exhaust system is not road worthy " then simply ill be buying a trailer to get my car from place to place and possibly buying some sort of tvr .

Matt Simis your paying to much for your insurance .

If mods make no difference to the way you drive, why do them?

The things that stop you are "brakes"

I agree a track car should be just that, and not a road car with bells and whistles.

p.s. How much did your insurance go up with the mods?