Bulking up with TQ.

Smidul

I recently bought a mass builder from tony quinn (yes i know what people think of tony quinn!).

I'm going to use the thing for a couple of weeks and i'll post the results here as some people think tony quinn can't be trusted.

Trying to gain weight to go up a weight class. Trying to gain weight on only the arms and upper body for more explosive power.

tribulus

What do you compete in?

Good luck with the weight gain.

Smidul

Boxing. Im trying to move to lightweight. Currently the same as bernard dunne.

justsomebloke

well most people hear don't trust weight gain supplements either as generally it just means you aren't eating enough. So if you do benefit from this chances are that your basic diet is lacking anyway. also if you do want to compare at least give us all your before info

Smidul

well i've got a fast metabolism so gaining weight doesnt work well for me. Im 58kg 5 foot 9. My bodyfat Ratio is 8% (can't measure this later). Im trying to gain all the weight on my upper body basically. When i gain weight with the supplements and the Creatine . Ill stop using them and get leaner to go down a bit of weight.

Hanley

I'd guess the amount of training you're doing and not your metabolism is the problem....

Just get the kcals in. Try and get as much as possible from whole food. Get anymore you need from shakes.

Also, I thought explosive power came primarily from the hips and legs...?

justsomebloke

Smidul wrote:

well i've got a fast metabolism so gaining weight doesnt work well for me.

how fast, no seriously post up a full days eating just so we can see.

Also all a weight gainer is is extra calories so if you just used food all you would have to do is go back to your original diet to also lose some weight

Smidul

Hips and legs are all part of it. But arms do play a major part (e.g speed) and speed is very important for power , also chest muscles help with hooks etc. . As you can guess shoulders and arm muscles are very important too.

Smidul

Alright the food i get. In the morning i have ham and cheese sandwich + a yogurt of whatever. (Don't get too much time before im out the door). Banana + apple and then a Roll with a Breast of chicken-lettuce and onions. Dinner usually consists of 2 moderate servings of diff vegatables a good size piece of meat. Potatoes or Rice ( some form of carbs anyway). If i take this supplement before and after training im putting in an extra 60 carbs and about 30g of protein and also roughly 15g of creatine.

Smidul

Hanley wrote:

I'd guess the amount of training you're doing and not your metabolism is the problem....

well i wasnt excercising over summer and i still didnt gain weight.

crotalus667

Smidul wrote:

i take this supplement before and after training im putting in an extra 60 carbs and about 30g of protein and also roughly 15g of creatine.

Get some on whey just get anything other than tq 30g's pro and 60 carb is just crap for 2 servings:eek:


Im no expert:rolleyes: put even I can see that you diet is extremely lacking , read the stickies, post workout shake should be .4 grams of protein kg of body weight and .8 of simple carbs (I like to use powdered glucose just dump it in the shake you can get it in the baking section)

g'em

Smidul wrote:

Alright the food i get. In the morning i have ham and cheese sandwich + a yogurt of whatever. (Don't get too much time before im out the door). Banana + apple and then a Roll with a Breast of chicken-lettuce and onions. Dinner usually consists of 2 moderate servings of diff vegatables a good size piece of meat. Potatoes or Rice ( some form of carbs anyway). If i take this supplement before and after training im putting in an extra 60 carbs and about 30g of protein and also roughly 15g of creatine.

Double up what you're eating. Seriously.

yomchi

Smidul wrote:

Hips and legs are all part of it. But arms do play a major part (e.g speed) and speed is very important for power , also chest muscles help with hooks etc. . As you can guess shoulders and arm muscles are very important too.

not to drag this off topic, but chest muscles have shag all to do with good hooks. And bigger arms have shag all to do with developing more speed for punches. How long are you boxing and where?
Hanley's right, it's mostly hips and core that produce good punches but apart from that its down to technique and building your strength up through heavy bag work and pad work.
Good luck with the weight gain,I know many super Bantams thats have had trouble moving up to Light as SB was there natural body weight when they were fighting fit.

Smidul

actually i was just thinking. Creatine causes water to go into the mucles cells . But the heart is a muscle.. wouldnt it cause water to go there too? . Possibly dangerous?.Especially in boxing - the heart is pumping a lot. Im not sure if its the same with serious weight lifting is it?

anyway to answer your question i've been boxing 3 years and im muscular but im tryna add weight to that muslce and then tone it again.

g'em

Smidul wrote:

Creatine causes water to go into the mucles cells . But the heart is a muscle.. wouldnt it cause water to go there too? . Possibly dangerous?.Especially in boxing - the heart is pumping a lot. Im not sure if its the same with serious weight lifting is it?

Creatine influences skeletal muscle not cardiac muscle. People with congestive heart failure have been shown to improve with creatine supplementation (although this is just a particular situation - for the regular gym-goer creatine has had no proven side-effects in normal dosages for an otherwise healthy heart)

Hanley

Jon wrote:

not to drag this off topic, but chest muscles have shag all to do with good hooks. And bigger arms have shag all to do with developing more speed for punches. How long are you boxing and where?
Hanley's right, it's mostly hips and core that produce good punches but apart from that its down to technique and building your strength up through heavy bag work and pad work.
Good luck with the weight gain,I know many super Bantams thats have had trouble moving up to Light as SB was there natural body weight when they were fighting fit.

Might also have a look at strengthing your lats since they decelarate your arm after you punch afaik. Jon, am I way off the mark?

Smidul

Just found this.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/uwa8lv3qt8jpv5d9/
Seems to me like it says it has an effect on cardiac muscle.

Hanley

Smidul wrote:

Just found this.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/uwa8lv3qt8jpv5d9/
Seems to me like it says it has an effect on cardiac muscle.

Better stop eating meat so.

Smidul

Actually Creatine can be obtained from raw meat.
Your body creates creatine and this drink provides extra creatine im wondering about a overload.

Yes your right Power of punch is influenced by hips, etc. but its also infeleunced by a hell load of other things. Look at professional boxers dont tell me they are wasting weight by adding muscle to their arms

yomchi

Smidul wrote:

Actually Creatine can be obtained from raw meat.
Your body creates creatine and this drink provides extra creatine im wondering about a overload.

Yes your right Power of punch is influenced by hips, etc. but its also infeleunced by a hell load of other things. Look at professional boxers dont tell me they are wasting weight by adding muscle to their arms

Most professional boxers don't bother with lifting weights to accelerate their punching ability.

From an Irish point of view, both Collins', Carruth, McCullough, Dunne, Lee, McGee, Rock, Griffin to name a few I've seen training and no people they trained under - do not lift weights to help their punching.

Hanley I've never heard that. In a boxing gym you won't hear any trainers saying 'young man beef up your arms to speed up your punching' or 'get them lats beefed up to hit harder' - its all about technique really. Its more about relaxing your arms and putting in the hip.

Smidul

Dunne isnt a hard hitter.

yomchi

He has a hard left hand to the body and has stopped several people with it. Collins never used supplements in his life, either has McCullough - infact mcCullough's pre training meal was a gansy load of raisins!
Check out some of the Pro's web sites some of them give details of their training regimes.
How long are you boxing and where?

Hanley

Jon, I wasn't saying it from the point of view that it would enable him to hit harder... Just that it might keep your shoulders healthy. But as I said, I'm just thinkign out loud. I don't actually know if it would be any benefit!

davyjose

From the very little I know about boxing, I've heard one of the reasons boxers build their biceps is for defence - it stops them dropping the hands when they start to get tired. Makes sense.

davyjose

Hanley wrote:

Might also have a look at strengthing your lats since they decelarate your arm after you punch afaik. Jon, am I way off the mark?

The Cruiserweight Boxer David Haye was in a Men's Health a few years ago (when I had more cash than brains) and he did a LOT of lat work. I think sets of bodyweight +40kilo pull-ups were the norm!!!

g'em

Smidul wrote:

Just found this.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/uwa8lv3qt8jpv5d9/
Seems to me like it says it has an effect on cardiac muscle.

Ooooh, yes you're right, it does.... in rats. And more to the point it's an unsignificant effect and tested on 30 minute bouts of swimming activity in rodents.

Here's another link showing how creatine can increase thermoregulation efficency in humans...

... another one to show that creatine supplementation increases endurance training capabilities in rowers...

... one that shows increased lower-body strength in sprinters but not maxmal upper-body strength or endurance during short-term creatine supplementation...

... and finally one that shows that creatine supplementation can lead to increased skeletal strength in patients with conegstive heart failure

The point is that there's gazillions of scientific articles out there, but you need to really be aware of what you're reading. Fine so there's an articel that shows that creatine affects the hearts of rats, but is the effect significant? can it be reliably extrapolated to humans? are there studies that show the same effects in humans? or is there other evidence to show the contrary?

Creatine is still a relatively new supplement and so there's a lot of work being done to it. If I was to do a much more in-depth search I'm sure I might be able to find studies to contradict the ones I've found, but such is the nature of research. You can't read one study and draw all your conclusions from it.

If creatine was a problem for cardiac health there would be a lot of information out there about it, but to date, no ill-effects on cardiac performance have been found (that I know of) in otherwise healthy individuals. There may be other effects of Cr supplementation, but from what I've read (and I've done this search timea nd time again because I use creatine myself) the biggest unknown surrounding Cr is whether or not it actually works. Taking creatine will not harm your heart.

But that's an aside from your original question OP - creatine is the last of your worries if you want to bulk up. To do that it's rather more simple, eat more and train harder.

iregk

Smidul, I'm not a boxer so I can't tell you anything about what muscles to build not build. Now if you need to know about cycling or football I can tell you that! For starters you seem to be convinced that the supp is going to solve all your problems. Its not.

Looking at your diet its obvious why your finding it difficult to gain weight. Your not eating! I was like you many years ago, hovering constantly around 11st despite being 6' and couldn't gain weight. On of my football coaches took apart my diet and I'm now on my way back down from 14st. I actually got too heavy, no jon not 'too big' and couldn't get the times I used to on the bike.

I use creatine and sometimes a protein supp but they are only suppliments not replacements for food. Before you start to even look at a suppliment you should look at the foundations of your diet. Are you eating enough? no. Have a proper breakfast, mid morning small meal, lunch, afternoon snack, dinner etc... look at the stickies and you'll get the idea. This will build you up and more importantly give you a more gradual and better core rather than a quick false suppliment fix.

yomchi

I actually got too heavy, no jon not 'too big'

Transform

You have not got a grasp of the very basics of nutrition if you think you want to 'put on weight' and then 'turn' it into muscle!!!

Your diet screams of amateur approach and at your weight i would not call yourself muscular. Sort your diet out and supplement correctly i.e. where is the multivitamin (from solgar or quest), fish oils, vit C, glutamine etc reaching for creatine would be the LAST thing i would recommend.

rubadub

g'em wrote:

And more to the point it's an unsignificant effect and tested on 30 minute bouts of swimming activity in rodents.

The vermin in the Tony Quinn shops should beware

OP- Do you know how many calories you are taking in a day? I know a few really thin people who talk about how they eat loads, but then lived with one a while and saw he ate feck all, another girl I know will sit down to a big meal but just pick at it. You have to get a digital scales and calulate your calorie intake properly. A sandwich could be 200kcal or 1200kcal.

Smidul

Thanks for the advice Iregk.

And Jon ,Yes the arms do help with punching power , why the hell do you think you get pain(Not serious pains , before you try to criticise that point) in the arms while punching?. You can feel it in your arms.

Anyway im staying away from Creatine... goddamn im dehydrated

yomchi

I never got pains in my arms while punching, they may get tired but thats down to anerobic fitness not whether my arms are big or small - muscle memory is they key besides its usually the shoulders that get sore. Christ I did an hour and a half tonight boxing, mostly pad work and moving around - I was tired at the end but not because of the size of my arms mate. The last thing to leave during the motion of a straight right for example is the arm - its only an extension of the hip.

AGAIN..where do you box and for how long have you been boxing?