Gadget Shop

Markspi

poped in here on saturday , they have one / two springer, two battery and now a shotie
the shotie is 90 euro.

Wossack

all junk?

Markspi

did you see for yourself , they got quite a lot of interest hadnt got the heart to tell them it was all crap.

kdouglas

yea, heard about this a while back, its all rubbish stuff you can buy elsewhere for < $10

Markspi

Speaking to the gut in the shop he said he is going to get lts more in.
he had catalouges for aegs etc.

The interest was unreal , swear someone was giving something away for nothing.
wonder what the effect wil be in long time .

Lemming

Markspi wrote:

The interest was unreal , swear someone was giving something away for nothing.
wonder what the effect wil be in long time .

The effect in the long run will be the Irish VCRA (or worse given the parish pump mentality of Irish politics) .... honestly, shops like MADD or the Gadget shop selling airsoft kit is very, very bad. Look at the clientele for the most part. I'm not trying to sound elitest or snobby but honestly take a look around next time you're walking past one of these shops.

Markspi

Ah yes lemming , but unfortunatly this is were the kids will get these for xmas prezzies.
From Mum & Dad
But what can be done ?????????????

Spitfire666

at the end of the day, scummers or undesireables know how to use the internet aswell so there is no point in trying to give out about shops.

If kids get them as pressies then its the parents fault. Its the same as people giving out about computer games. just because the parents over look the age rating on the game doesnt make it the games fault that little timmy goes out and robs cars.

Just be thankfull that the shop sells rubbish at high prices. it will water down any interest in them

Lemming

Markspi wrote:

Ah yes lemming , but unfortunatly this is were the kids will get these for xmas prezzies.
From Mum & Dad
But what can be done ?????????????

TBH, I'd be screaming at the IAA to have a word with local representatives, the Gardai, and Irish retailers such as eirsoft & BFSL. We need to show the government that we can regulate ourselves, and we need to do it like yesterday to nip this in the bud.

Perhaps also involving our Northern brethern on this would be a good idea since they have no doubt already encountered this or similar.

But yes ... the IAA want to represent us, here's something that needs addressing. Even if nothing can be done, at the very least we raise awareness with the right people to show that yes there is a sport there, yes there are responsible people there, and no the likes of novelty shops are not these responsible people.

Our only saving grace is, as Spitfire has pointed out, the high cost. But that wont be as much a hinderance as you'd think, since little Johnny aged 14 has oodles of pocket money and/or a part-time job.

Spitfire666

the thing is, there is nothing in law to stop one shop selling something which another shop is selling when its not an ilegal/licenced item.

Lemming

Spitfire666 wrote:

the thing is, there is nothing in law to stop one shop selling something which another shop is selling when its not an ilegal/licenced item.

Currently you're quite right Spitfire. We don't even have some sort of minimum age-of-purchase on airsoft kit (which tbh we should have). And before the younger players jump on me, I said age of purchase, not use. So you'd need a parental unit to purchase it for you or some such.

It's not much better of a solution, but it's a start.

My main point is this; if we shrug our shoulders and say "ah shurrre what can ye do be gora", we're f*cked. Irish VCRA here we come.

Spitfire666

there isnt much point in having an age limit on buying without the limit on using

See my point above about games.

And in any case most guns have 18+ on the box anyway. i know its not fair and it never will be but an over 18s or over 15s or whatever will need to be on the buying AND using or it wont make any difference.

Lemming

Spitfire666 wrote:

there isnt much point in having an age limit on buying without the limit on using

See my point above about games.

And in any case most guns have 18+ on the box anyway. i know its not fair and it never will be but an over 18s or over 15s or whatever will need to be on the buying AND using or it wont make any difference.

True. Although perhaps I think a clause on age limit for use would serve better. Something like under age 'x' must be under adult supervision when using airsoft kit. Deals with the scenario of a Garda stopping a couple of 13 year old kids using airsoft kit in full view of the public and being able to do something about it, .i.e. confiscate and/or haul their asses to the station.

Of course all of this could well be entirely academic since half the problems in this country in general come down to an inability to enforce existing law.

Markspi

To comment on spitfire , hes right to that point , kids are playing over 18 games.
With more violence and blood shed then airsoft.
The point i am making we know these items are expensive but with springers starting at 30 yoyos and the shottie for 90 yo yos its in some cases cheaper then a playstation game.

gandalf

tbh if they are selling rubbish at totally overinflated prices the chances are undesirables will get pissed off and leave them.

The important thing is that the IAA can show that the sport side is established, is regulated and is responsible which knowing all the people that I have met involved in Airsoft so-far it is.

I think nonex has a very good point when we were chatting on Saturday of making sure we have very close links with the lads in NI as we could say we are helping the Peace process in forming cross community relationships and ties.

tonyj_mc

i can see this becoming major issue if / when the sport becomes bigger, have to say i'm already noticing lots of cheap nasty yellow pellets on the roads around my g/fs house. kinda scary.

it has the potental to kill the sport in one foul swoop, all it will take is a someone to be arrested for brandishing an aeg in public and bye bye sport. there needs to be some sort of age limit on owning / operating aegs.

if the IAA is seen to be trying to enact this even if something does happen then we are in a better postion to say we have been lobbying for this for x months rather than reacting to the event, cuz lets be honest it will happen

marco murphy

Lemming wrote:

The effect in the long run will be the Irish VCRA (or worse given the parish pump mentality of Irish politics) .... honestly, shops like MADD or the Gadget shop selling airsoft kit is very, very bad. Look at the clientele for the most part. I'm not trying to sound elitest or snobby but honestly take a look around next time you're walking past one of these shops.

Well I'll be honest, the one in Navan is full of scumbags and I have no doubt they will be up to no good with their newly aquired AEGs.

The only hope Iam clinging to is, would they know how to use them?

Markspi

Poblachtach wrote:

Well I'll be honest, the one in Navan is full of scumbags and I have no doubt they will be up to no good with their newly aquired AEGs.

The only hope Iam clinging to is, would they know how to use them?

Did it take us long to figure them out, its when they start standing on bridges and firing on cars going by , people walking animals etc etc its were its all going to go bad .

What can be done.

tonyj_mc

from what i know of the law (which is not a whole heap) is brandishing them in public the same legalwise as brandishing a reals steel?

gandalf

Well I don't know how many of you have seen this months AI but there was an article about an excellent open day held on one of the skirmish sites for the local police firearms squad. They paired off a police officer with an experienced airsofter and it was a roaring success. So successful that the police have booked it for a training day.

Something like that here would be of great benefit as well. I already know we have Gardai and members of the Armed Forces playing but that is on a personal level. The give the Gardai the experience of seeing Airsoft in action in an offical capacity will also give them the knowledge of what to look for when an AEG and not a real firearm is being used.

Lemming

Poblachtach wrote:

The only hope Iam clinging to is, would they know how to use them?

They don't need to. 90% of political/media battles are over perception. All they need do is get noticed carrying/brandishing/using them. Doesn't matter if they manage to fire a shot or if their AEG misfires.

Pointing to computer games and shrugging our shoulders is such an Irish thing to do and it disgusts me. I'm not having a go at anyone, just pointing out that if we actually want to surive as a sport, we need to f*cking well pull the finger out and stop being apathetic about what we can do. Even if there isn't much, the point about perception is already made and very much a point to note.

Sticking with computer games for a second, you cannot compare them with airsoft. How does one hurt someone else with a computer game? or cause a public panic? Throwing one like a throwing star at someone's eye? :rolleyes: At the very least, computer games have an age certification that is recognised by the state. Airsoft kit does not. Currently if an issue arises there is no defense in the media. Nothing to say little johnny should not have had that AEG (which is currently correct and legal, but leaves airsoft in Ireland wiiiiiiide open to attack)

Markspi

Here is an idead maybe we should lobby the law which made same legal ,
that we could again lobby the law so as you have to be a member of a clb or association ( IAA ) .
Before you can purchase an aeg etc.

Lemming

Markspi wrote:

Here is an idead maybe we should lobby the law which made same legal ,
that we could again lobby the law so as you have to be a member of a clb or association ( IAA ) .
Before you can purchase an aeg etc.

We're sliding down the slope into the VCRA with that suggestion though. There's a fine line to thread. I don't claim to have answers, but they're out there and we, as a community, need to examine every possibility we can think of and its implications.

Markspi

Lemming wrote:

They don't need to. 90% of political/media battles are over perception. All they need do is get noticed carrying/brandishing/using them. Doesn't matter if they manage to fire a shot or if their AEG misfires.

Pointing to computer games and shrugging our shoulders is such an Irish thing to do and it disgusts me. I'm not having a go at anyone, just pointing out that if we actually want to surive as a sport, we need to f*cking well pull the finger out and stop being apathetic about what we can do. Even if there isn't much, the point about perception is already made and very much a point to note.

Sticking with computer games for a second, you cannot compare them with airsoft. How does one hurt someone else with a computer game? or cause a public panic? Throwing one like a throwing star at someone's eye? :rolleyes: At the very least, computer games have an age certification that is recognised by the state. Airsoft kit does not. Currently if an issue arises there is no defense in the media. Nothing to say little johnny should not have had that AEG (which is currently correct, but leaves airsoft in Ireland wiiiiiiide open to attack)

I do agree with you , but as you know with media and the games it was all about the violence aspect.
See an undesireable with an aeg ( VIOLENCE )
the point made about the games is valid to the point of , how are the kids getting the games , adults purchase for them , so wether or not we stamp over 21 on the box does not mean a kid of 14 wont end up with one.

tonyj_mc

Lemming wrote:

We're sliding down the slope into the VCRA with that suggestion though. There's a fine line to thread. I don't claim to have answers, but they're out there and we, as a community, need to examine every possibility we can think of and its implications.

wouldn't have thought to go that far, maybe even restricting sale to under 18's might be enough, but saying that think back a few years how difficult was it to get booze and smokes underage

Markspi

tonyj_mc wrote:

wouldn't have thought to go that far, maybe even restricting sale to under 18's might be enough, but saying that think back a few years how difficult was it to get booze and smokes underage

And they still are , the garda are still trying to crack down on it ,
but even the off licences are delivering for gods sake how much handier do you want it.

I dont think we can stop the shops from selling these items , but we have to do something .
before it does get out of control

Lemming

Markspi wrote:

I dont think we can stop the shops from selling these items , but we have to do something .
before it does get out of control

I had a further think over this whilst walking down to Dundrum centre to get food for lunch. And I think we're going about this slightly @rse-ways. Asking the government to legislate for every little possible scenario is an act of futility since the government will not be able to.

Now, we look at paintball for a second. Firearms that have had exemptions directed for their use since a person is both pointing at, and willfully firing a firearm at another person. I think a different approach might be used for airsoft than current thinking has provided. Rather than expect the government to protect society from itself by wrapping us all up in cotton wool, why not stress to the Gardai/DPP that the IAA and the airsoft community in general would welcome prosecution of individuals abusing airsoft equipment in public (as opposed to private property with permission) as if they were using real-steel. If people are held accountable for their actions, they'll soon get the message.

Before someone points out that AEGs are not real-steel let me elaborate on the legal viewpoint towards toys. Society recognises that whilst toys may be toys, some do have mature themes (such as computer games) and as such are not meant for certain age categories. Directing the Gardai & DPP to view airsoft equipment as toys but not for certain age groups (unsupervised), and thus perhaps allow for real-steel prosecution.

Spitfire666

my point about games was that kids get adults to buy them as the age limit is on buying, not haveing/using. nobody is going to have a game seized because they are underage. i ment that a buying age is useless without a use age.

Have more to add but off to work. talk more later

Markspi

Lemming wrote:

I had a further think over this whilst walking down to Dundrum centre to get food for lunch. And I think we're going about this slightly @rse-ways. Asking the government to legislate for every little possible scenario is an act of futility since the government will not be able to.

Now, we look at paintball for a second. Firearms that have had exemptions directed for their use since a person is both pointing at, and willfully firing a firearm at another person. I think a different approach might be used for airsoft than current thinking has provided. Rather than expect the government to protect society from itself by wrapping us all up in cotton wool, why not stress to the Gardai/DPP that the IAA and the airsoft community in general would welcome prosecution of individuals abusing airsoft equipment in public (as opposed to private property with permission) as if they were using real-steel. If people are held accountable for their actions, they'll soon get the message.

Before someone points out that AEGs are not real-steel let me elaborate on the legal viewpoint towards toys. Society recognises that whilst toys may be toys, some do have mature themes (such as computer games) and as such are not meant for certain age categories. Directing the Gardai & DPP to view airsoft equipment as toys but not for certain age groups (unsupervised), and thus perhaps allow for real-steel prosecution.

That would seem to be a good idea , wonder can it be done ?

fletch...

And so it begins ( aeg,s readily available to undesireables )

So who els thinks that maybe we should be pushing for some sort of a registration or lisencing so that only those dedicated airsofters can easily get aeg,s ect. Would solve the problem of crossing the border with aegs wouldnt it?

then airsofters who can legally buy, wont buy crap from these shops, the shops start losing out and so nolonger stock crap.

this is something we should sort out now before its too late,

Lemming

fletch... wrote:

And so it begins ( aeg,s readily available to undesireables )

So who els thinks that maybe we should be pushing for some sort of a registration or lisencing so that only those dedicated airsofters can easily get aeg,s ect. Would solve the problem of crossing the border with aegs wouldnt it?

then airsofters who can legally buy, wont buy crap from these shops, the shops start losing out and so nolonger stock crap.

this is something we should sort out now before its too late,

The more I think about it, the worse off we'd be with licensing or registration. I think educating the Gardai/DPP/TDs on airsoft is a better idea along with a community support for prosecution of public abuse as if real-steel. Airsoft kit looks realistic, and that can be used to either coherse or intimidate members of the public, or at trhe very least, cause panic if brandished in view.

TBH, the laws are there already - we just need to emphasis that point. It's no different to running around waving an Iado (essentially a training sword for want of a better term) about in plain view of the public. Gandalf can tell you about mine and how "real" it looks and feels. Well it is real, its blunted. Whenever it moves between my house and the dojo (admittedly not for several months now because I've been busy as f00k) it is never taken out of its carry case.

Markspi

See nonex thread re membership cards ,
After all years ago when you were into martial arts ( MAYBE WRONG HERE)
did you not have to show membership cards before you bought any weapons for martial arts.
Or show you were at least a memebership of a club .?

innthe idea if the gardai stop you no membership card of The IAA aeg or pistol confiscated,

Markspi

if the legal age to own an airsoft aeg oir pistol is 18
what is the legal age for playing airsoft .

o1s1n

Check this out - just after stumbling across it. they're called digitalwarehouse. An Irish online store gadget shop type place.

Selling rubbish AEGs. Although for once they're not horribly over priced.

Their bbs are pretty expensive though.

http://www.digitalwarehouse.ie/index.cfm/page/shop/catId/240

Markspi

yeah not overpriced but in cork

liamo333

Half of their guns have lasers on them, tut tut tut.

gandalf

and the youtube video on the Both Elephant Steyr is for a CA one. False advertising :rolleyes:

Shiva

fletch... wrote:

So who els thinks that maybe we should be pushing for some sort of a registration or lisencing so that only those dedicated airsofters can easily get aeg,s ect.

By dedicated airsofters, do you mean people who skirmish ?

What about collectors ?

How do we register collectors who aren't regular attendees of a skirmish site ?
And if we simply allow collectors to register with the IAA and count that as evidence of their bone fides, how do we stop skangers registering with the IAA and saying they're collectors ?

Its a slippery slope.

I'm inclined to agree with Lemming....educate TDs/Gardai/the public and show ourselves to be responsible without requiring registration.

Rew

Lemming wrote:

The more I think about it, the worse off we'd be with licensing or registration. I think educating the Gardai/DPP/TDs on airsoft is a better idea along with a community support for prosecution of public abuse as if real-steel. Airsoft kit looks realistic, and that can be used to either coherse or intimidate members of the public, or at trhe very least, cause panic if brandished in view.

Some scumbag used whats sounds like an Airsoft pistols to threaten 2 taxi drivers and fire several "shots" in Coolock last night.

The law is there but when some criminal gets a 9mm in the head from some ERU guy and it turns out that it was airtsoft the leftys will be up in arms (pardon the pun). Their (moronic) arguement will be that he wasn't a danger and shouldnt have been shot. They were up in arms when the Gardaí went looking for less then lethal weapons (because it erodes or civial liberties) then up in arms when they use leathal weaopons. When the 2 scumbags in Lusk were shot there was war and one of them had a real pistol!

defenderdude

Shiva wrote:

How do we register collectors who aren't regular attendees of a skirmish site ?
And if we simply allow collectors to register with the IAA and count that as evidence of their bone fides, how do we stop skangers registering with the IAA and saying they're collectors ?

Its a slippery slope.

I'm inclined to agree with Lemming....educate TDs/Gardai/the public and show ourselves to be responsible without requiring registration.

A slippery slope agreed indeed. However, I'd imagine skangers by their nature are not going to be overly interested in submitting their details to the IAA - where they may potentially be submitted/flagged to the Gardai.

With regard to educating others - agree m8, it's the only way but not going to be easy...:(
I was out with one of my m8's (a long serving Garda) and the subject of airsoft/paintballing came up. Let's just say that some have an open mind and others simply dont.:( Paintball was great - airsoft NOT, should be locked up with immitation firearms. Didnt seem aware of the whole 1J issue.... and probably pissed at the smartarse (me). It was simply a replica firearm!
phhhaaaa
I said I'd get him a link to some sites to help him understand, drank some pints and changed the subject to rugby.

Some people just dont understand the sport - we need to raise the legimitate profile of the sport, but this raising of profile also attracts others whom you'd rather didnt know (ie. skangers)

I may be a n00b with regard to airsoft. But, as an old fart (almost 40, whom should know better (or so my wife says:o ), I think we either raise the issue voluntarily on tv/radio/papers or have it raised for us. ?

The profile of genuine players itself, must indicate that supporters of the sport are varied and numerous, from all walks of life and professions. It's a start when it comes to demistifying the issue to those whom dont know or understand it.

I'm sorry for stating the obvious and I'm sure it's already been said many times... but where do you begin? I worry about the future of the sport - we're such an easy target.:mad:



Slippery slope indeed - airsoft on ski's! in snow camo cooooooooool
I need to grow up.:o

Lemming

Rew wrote:

Some scumbag used whats sounds like an Airsoft pistols to threaten 2 taxi drivers and fire several "shots" in Coolock last night.

The law is there but when some criminal gets a 9mm in the head from some ERU guy and it turns out that it was airtsoft the leftys will be up in arms (pardon the pun). Their (moronic) arguement will be that he wasn't a danger and shouldnt have been shot. They were up in arms when the Gardaí went looking for less then lethal weapons (because it erodes or civial liberties) then up in arms when they use leathal weaopons. When the 2 scumbags in Lusk were shot there was war and one of them had a real pistol!

Oh, I'll sympathise completely with the Gardai on this. My line of thinking follows the usual demanding that the gubberment do something whilst society abdicates itself of any responsibility for its actions. Bottom line, if someone uses a replica gun/sword/baseball bat, etc. they'll get treated as if they've used a real version. In the case of a firearm, the person who is brandishing it has chosen to use it knowing full well that the public will perceive it as being real and kertow to that person's demands/will/whatever. Indeed, I'd hazard a guess that even in the tension of a situation that's mounting, state security agencies would have difficulty identifying some AEGs as not being real. All an ERU member (for example) is going to see is a person wielding a weapon that can possibly kill him/herself, his unit, and/or members of the public.

Hell look at the McCarthy incident even. There was little that could be done once he set foot outside the door to his house. He was dead long before he turned out of his garden gate. Long before he even faced the Gardai present. Long before he raised the barrel in a threatening manner. And that was with real-steel. We dont' live in holywood where the good guys can always disarm the bad guys with a crack-shot to the wrist whilst simultaneously lighting a cigar, scratching their balls with one hand tied behind their back and talking smooth to some pole-dancer on their mobile phone.

And society needs to be told a simple truth. You are responsible for your actions. Lefties can scream all they want (and they'll be wrong about this), but the person who chooses to cause a panic and/or intimidated members of the public has in all likelihood done so willfully and deliberately. Whilst that doesn't mean giving the Gardai carte blanche to indulge in live target practice, it does mean that they should be allowed to treat such situations robustly if need be. Obviously the 16 year old who thought was great to show his mates his new incredibly low-quality M4 is most likely going to sh*t themselves at the first sign of a heavy Garda unit moving in and going to offer no resistance. But then there's the scumbag who threatens a taxi driver, or tries to hold up a post office or bank (foolishly). The powers that be cannot afford to start second-guessing if that's real-steel or an RIF and all should be treated equally in the eyes of the law where such situations occur.

marco murphy

Lemming wrote:

Oh, I'll sympathise completely with the Gardai on this. My line of thinking follows the usual demanding that the gubberment do something whilst society abdicates itself of any responsibility for its actions. Bottom line, if someone uses a replica gun/sword/baseball bat, etc. they'll get treated as if they've used a real version. In the case of a firearm, the person who is brandishing it has chosen to use it knowing full well that the public will perceive it as being real and kertow to that person's demands/will/whatever. Indeed, I'd hazard a guess that even in the tension of a situation that's mounting, state security agencies would have difficulty identifying some AEGs as not being real. All an ERU member (for example) is going to see is a person wielding a weapon that can possibly kill him/herself, his unit, and/or members of the public.

Hell look at the McCarthy incident even. There was little that could be done once he set foot outside the door to his house. He was dead long before he turned out of his garden gate. Long before he even faced the Gardai present. Long before he raised the barrel in a threatening manner. And that was with real-steel. We dont' live in holywood where the good guys can always disarm the bad guys with a crack-shot to the wrist whilst simultaneously lighting a cigar, scratching their balls with one hand tied behind their back and talking smooth to some pole-dancer on their mobile phone.

And society needs to be told a simple truth. You are responsible for your actions. Lefties can scream all they want (and they'll be wrong about this), but the person who chooses to cause a panic and/or intimidated members of the public has in all likelihood done so willfully and deliberately. Whilst that doesn't mean giving the Gardai carte blanche to indulge in live target practice, it does mean that they should be allowed to treat such situations robustly if need be. Obviously the 16 year old who thought was great to show his mates his new incredibly low-quality M4 is most likely going to sh*t themselves at the first sign of a heavy Garda unit moving in and going to offer no resistance. But then there's the scumbag who threatens a taxi driver, or tries to hold up a post office or bank (foolishly). The powers that be cannot afford to start second-guessing if that's real-steel or an RIF and all should be treated equally in the eyes of the law where such situations occur.

Iam trying to be as realistic as possible here. If an incident based on the above arises I think the result would be airsoft ban.

Lemming

Poblachtach wrote:

Iam trying to be as realistic as possible here. If an incident based on the above arises I think the result would be airsoft ban.

Why an airsoft ban? The rules are quite clear regardless of what you use as a weapon. A weapon is a weapon and will be treated as such.

I would hazard a guess that if you charged a member of the ERU with a baseball bat or a large knife, they'd take the legs from under you with a few rounds. The fact that a firearm (or perceived firearm in the case of RIFs) does not require physical contact beyond pointing means escalating the required response to include lethal force.

As I said, if the Gardai/DPP enforce existing law regarding the use of weapons (unspecified as to what constitutes a weapon), this is a non-issue except for whatever sensationalist mileage can be had by the media to make some sales. And if the IAA & the airsoft community stands behind the Gardai on this, then all the better in my opinion.

Once again: you are responsible for your own actions. The consequences are yours to bear.

Heckler

LIGHTNING wrote:

I`d agree with you Shiva, If I had to go through all the license hoops to get my first AEG I wouldn't have bothered.

I'm with Shiva on this one. I collect AEG's as an aesthetic hobby and don't have much of an interest in skirmishing. The odd backyard plinking is enough for me.

Even if I was interested in skirmishing I live in Cork and ain't gonna travel to Dublin for the experience. (Yes, i'm aware that theres talk of setting up a cork site).

I don't know the answer to the problem but I know that if a similar act to the uk one was imminent Shiva would be clearing out my bank balance in double time before it was implemented !!

Spitfire666

LIGHTNING wrote:

I`d agree with you Shiva, If I had to go through all the license hoops to get my first AEG I wouldn't have bothered.

And if something like the VCRA came in here, it would unfortuneatly kill off collectors unless they skirmish aswell. collecting is as much a part of the hobby for me as skirmishing is as im sure my purchases would inform anyone. i have bought some thing which i never use. for example, i bought a p90, used it once. i only sold it because i needed money for other things. i bought 2 mp5k's im yet to buy a second batt for one of them and i have them months at this stage but that wasnt the point for me. the glock i sold will be replaced once i settle on a pistol i like for skirmishing, and i also intend to buy some others which i know will get very little use such as an ingram/m14/a sniper rifle/ca96/a new revolver/ and ultimatley a classic army m249 and a LAW lancher once i have everything else i want.

My m15a4 is my weapon of choice for skirmising and i doubt i am going to find something i like more yet i still have my other stuff and will buy more.


I think that we need some form of rules that we would be happy to live with drafted (and i dont mean drafted by the IAA i mean by all players, with the help of the lads up north for example) which all players come to an agreement on for the prosperity of the sport which we could have writen in a legal format like law is written. this would show that we have thought about the situation in a sensable way that although it would ultimately upset some, such as young softers will ensure the sport doesnt 3end up with heavy handed laws thrust on it like the vcra which restricts the sport and restricts our abilities as collectors or players.

The law as it stands does cover the use of AEG's (or anything for that matter) in crimes as being ilegal, however having one in public as mentioned on page 1 is not the same as a real firearm. it is only when used in a criminal act does the use of something legal become ilegal.

having one in public without doing anything specificly ilegal would come under public order laws should somebody become scared or intimidated unintentionaly.

Gatling

hmmm begining to think the vcr would be a good idea ,though not as full on ,there is way to many muppets out there giving airsoft a bad name ,and when shops and stall in markets start selling aegs ,the crap will hit the fan , why not have a licence for airsoft ,never mind the whole bigbrother thing ,
shops should bring a membership required system when selling airsoft ,and i know for a fact some retailers are in favour of the vcr ,all its takes is one gob****e to do something stupid ,like get there house raided and the gardai find a horde of airsoft ,press prints jo anybody had a huge cash of illegaly held replica firearms ,im not worried about collectors ,just dont want a prefectly good sport be ruined by a couple of fools , bring in a licence and club membership before an airsoft purchase can be made ,why worry about anybody else ,the IAA should be only out to protect AIRSOFT and its players ,
the collectors dont give a damn bout airsoft in the first place ,most get off on having guns up on the walls ,protect the sport and its players

silver haze

look scumbags are scumbags for that very reason, dont care about laws, the chances of getting caught for many offenses are slim so there is little sense talking about legislating for what might happen ie. punishing someone for carrying an airsoft the same as a firearm. you could carry or use either illegally for the rest of you life and not be caught if you had an iota of sense at all.

the fact remains that it will only take a couple of incidents for the sport/hobby as a whole to be restricted or banned outright.
never underestimate the effect of sensationalism in the media: aftermarket exhausts/mushrooms/cars for sale at roadsides advertising the next cruise or even the sale of drugs(WTF???)

i dont support any of the above but they are just examples of things made illegal or in the process of being cracked down on in the name of that "tough on crime" soundbite.

restrictions need to be implemented at the point of sale, not after.
90% of scum will not order a decent AEG from the internet but its a different story altogether if they are walking back from Ca$h Converters with €80 in their pocket from selling those 3 playstations from the other night and see a Mac with a load of shít bolted on to it, staring back at them from the front window of the very place they buy their blades/scales/baggies ect.

how many here thought that airsoft were classed as "pellet guns" and there for illegal without license untl they discovered otherwise, be it through the net or a well informed friend.
ignorance is bliss when it comes to scum and the general public.

im not suggesting that i have any answers to the problem being discussed but i know for certain that these "joke" shops selling airsoft guns will have more of a detrimental effect than a positive one.

Rew

Lemming wrote:

I would hazard a guess that if you charged a member of the ERU with a baseball bat or a large knife, they'd take the legs from under you with a few rounds. The fact that a firearm (or perceived firearm in the case of RIFs) does not require physical contact beyond pointing means escalating the required response to include lethal force.

As I said, if the Gardai/DPP enforce existing law regarding the use of weapons (unspecified as to what constitutes a weapon), this is a non-issue except for whatever sensationalist mileage can be had by the media to make some sales. And if the IAA & the airsoft community stands behind the Gardai on this, then all the better in my opinion.

Your dead right on society needing to learn a few home truths but society is in't the brightest animal at times

ERU will only meet force with force come at them with a baseball bat and you will be met with battons, same for a knife.

Most Gardaí don't know the law surrounding firearms and airsoft toys to enforce it.

Markspi

we all know what will happen, but we have do do something now, to late when the SH1T hits the fan ,
Do we ourselves use the media now to our advantage.
By christmas , there could be aegs or springer under every kids xmas tree.
And if like me you didnt now airsoft was a sport till 2 months ago, how long will it be before our scummers realise what these can be used for.

Great talking bout it but it wont solve the problem.
Paul from HRTA has taken the first step as to membership cards ,
The IAA will follow suit next i hope ,
But where from here. ?
The front page of the Sunday World????
But for all the wrong reasons

Also based on the above as the HRTA is now a club there should possibly be a membership fee & the IAA that could help us airsofters in the future.
As funds maybe needed to highlight & promote the great sport of airsoft.
Get the sport known now for what is good points other then later for all thats bad points.

This sport will need funds, for promtions,advertisements, events etc.

Some sort of subscription is what we need we all have the ideas , but with ideas we need funds .
To push these ideas forward .

Hivemind187

***Personal Opinion Alert***

About 90% of this conversation is total hear-say and knee-jerk BS.

Fact is people that the CJB IS the Irish equivalent of the VCR and it is unlikely to change any time in the near future, especially since it was only draft last year.

AS far as it goes with an all out ban it is catagorically not gooing to happen. In order to do so would require either a complete re-write of the law opr we would wind up in the pre-2006 situation where suction dart guns were considered firearms.

I am a whinging lefty and I can tell you that it isnt just the left that bangs its chest over these things. Every couple of years Martial Arts comes under threat when some 10 year old puts his brother in the hospital after smashing his face in with a Karate Kick. Or the Ninja Turtles Inspires kids to hang out in sewers and tehy all get drowned. There is a running theme to this, DUMB KIDS.

As for the IAA ID scheme, this was explained months ago. We arent doing ID cards this year because they cost money. Next year we will introduce the membership fee and which will pay for the ID, promotionals, flyers, printing costs, legal advice etc. Remember folks, this stuff is complicated and it takes time. I honestly dont see why there is so much hostility towards the IAA when we are trying to get everything sorted out and only about 10% of the people who have said they are signing up have actually handed in an application form.

ambro25

Summarising the thread somewhat (which, tbh, has already 'happened' and been thoroughly discussed in various other threads over the past 4-5 months),

1) the sale of airsoft devices in Ireland cannot be banned or 'regulated' - legally, they are toys, endof. Any form of sales regulation would have to be voluntary, and, considering how easily the devices can be ordered online from HK without any form of regulation, why the f#ck should IE shops regulate themselves? Put your business hat on for a minute, lads.

2) any media sh1storm yet to come over some Darwin Award winner having got the prize through misuse of airsoft device will be just that: a media sh1tstorm, which will abate when the next paper-selling story comes along.

3) anything that can be done to 'protect' airsoft as a legitimate sport (which, personally, I distinguish from airsoft device ownership) is already well underway:

3a) can't speak for Drogheda, but HRTA already maintains a daily register of attendees for any Gardai liaising requiremerent that may arise - club cards will help this along, but *strictly speaking* the cards are already superfluous

3b) the IAA over the past few months has developed a comprehensive set of blueprints for the sport to flourish, be it through the drafting of the sports' constitution (yet to be approved by member vote as and when), an infrastructure for registration, a ready-for-use blanket press statement, and probably much more that we don't know about yet

3c) through whatever 'noise' we make in here about how cool and enjoyable this pasttime is, considering the readership figures of the threads in this sub-forum and, bluntly, how pervasive Boards.ie already is as a bona fidemedia outlet (to the same title as papers, radio & whatnot), there is already an exponential or geometrical interest in airsoft which, on the whole, is entirely positive (save as to needle_too ).

So, Gadget Shop selling airsoft to the "masses" indiscriminantly = storm in a teacup.

Make no mistakes, bad media will happen.

The only thing that we have to be ready for, is ensuring we show good faith, discipline and measure when under scrutiny: in the face of a baying media mob, the answer is diametrically-opposed behaviour, because that's exactly what they don't expect, or want. That be the job of the IAA, as and when such happens, and I for one have enough faith in them at this stage already.

So, enough useless blabbing already.