How does JC HL maths compare with LC HL maths?

wireless101

I mean, do those who usually get As in JC, get As in LC? Or would it be only the top few As from JC that would go on to get A2s/A1s?

If anyone here has done honours for both could they tell me how they got on and how LC and JC compare please?

I done HL for my JC, I got a C, I done ONE week of HL maths and dropped down, and im glad i did it so soon as plenty others followed me.

It really dosent compare Maybe im just stupid

Jonathan

I got A in JC and got B2 in LC.. made a balls of the paper tho.:o

JC 2K3

I found it was quite a natural progression from JC maths to LC maths rather than a massive jump in standard, though many people have differing opinions on this.

Basically, if you worked very hard and got an A in JC Maths, then if you work very hard for LC Maths you'll get an A or B. If getting an A in JC Maths was no bother to you, then you'll likely get an A in LC Maths working a little harder than for your JC.

You'll know yourself after a few months in 5th year what you're capable of getting anyway.

ZorbaTehZ

I got an A in JC, and an A1 in LC.
If you look at each relative to a students ability, age etc. at the time of either exam, I am of the opinion that LC HL maths is significantly more dificult.

genericgoon

I got an A in JC, A2 in LC. But there is a significant step up some make easily, some dont.

Corruptedmorals

JC HL compares with LC OL Maths, not really HL..

1huge1

Deleted User wrote:

I done HL for my JC, I got a C, I done ONE week of HL maths and dropped down, and im glad i did it so soon as plenty others followed me.

It really dosent compare Maybe im just stupid

I also got a C in the junior cert
but lasted longer than 2 weeks before dropping down
3 months in fact but then it became apparent to me that this was just gonna take up too much time and effort

Now in 6th year and flying through ordinary level and aiming for a A1 in the exam

Key-Connors

there is little comparison between the two i got a b in jc and got a c2 in the lc but i was literally failing for the 2 years and never got over a d2 in those 2 years i got 42 in the mocks.but needed a c3 for engineering.
long story short if you dont need it for a course dont do it coz it taKES WAY TOO MUCH TIME. sorry about the caps at the end

kisaragi

I got an A in the JC, and was one of those people to get an invite to the maths o l y m p i a d (why on earth is olym-pia censored? *******.... )training so it means my exam was one of the top 500 I think...

Anyway all through JC I got As in pretty much every test and maths was easy.

Then I went into fifth year... Maths got hard! I mean, it actually required real work :P To me, there's a big leap between leaving and junior cert level maths, Junior just doesn't compare at all. In the JC you've seen all the questions before more or less, but for LC you actually need to think about things...

So long story short I came out with a B3 in LC after what was presumable a pretty good A in the JC... Had i worked more I might have done better, who knows... I lost some interest in maths to be honest, I didn't work particularly hard at it, no blood sweat and tears :P

So there you go, you could say I had some maths ability which got me an easy A in the JC but in the LC where I had to actually put in a lot of effort it didn't quite get me so far

I'm sure you could grind your way to an B1 in the LC, or at least a high B2/3 if you just practice all areas of the course and know them well... but unlike other subjects where you can just memorise you need a flair for maths to get an A

So no.. in my opinion... Jc maths doesn't compare with LC

tolosenc

Different league altogether, man. Different league...

carlowboy

JC 2K3 wrote:

I found it was quite a natural progression from JC maths to LC maths rather than a massive jump in standard, though many people have differing opinions on this.

Basically, if you worked very hard and got an A in JC Maths, then if you work very hard for LC Maths you'll get an A or B. If getting an A in JC Maths was no bother to you, then you'll likely get an A in LC Maths working a little harder than for your JC.

You'll know yourself after a few months in 5th year what you're capable of getting anyway.

QFT.


Also, you'd want to really like maths to do well really. In my experience anyway.

Nehpets

Naturally it's harder but I didn't think there was a big leap in hardness at all. Although it was different for me because I did TY with no maths at all really.

PurpleFistMixer

kisaragi wrote:

(why on earth is olym-pia censored? *******.... )

It's the name of a venue owned/used/something like that by a particular company.

I didn't find the jump between JC HL and LC HL too bad. I'd heard about it being completely horrific, and tbh I'm still waiting for the terrible bit to begin.
I did the maths olymp. training as well and I think after doing that, LC maths couldn't possibly hold any more terror, which was handy.
People get too afraid of it... at the start of fifth year there was supposed to be like 15 people in the honours maths class (most of the people who'd done HL for JC basically) and before the term even began, all but 8 had dropped down to pass...

Coco88

wireless101 wrote:

I mean, do those who usually get As in JC, get As in LC? Or would it be only the top few As from JC that would go on to get A2s/A1s?

If anyone here has done honours for both could they tell me how they got on and how LC and JC compare please?

No you can't compare HL maths at JC maths to Higher level Maths at LC . I done HL for the JC a i got a A . And higher level maths for the leaving cert is out of the question an A1 at OL maths at LC . Is the same as C1 at higher . If far to hard LC maths at HL . Oh OL maths for the LC is harder than HL maths for the JC.

Just pick OL is mostly out of the question for most people .

NoQuarter

yeah it was a lot header but it was a natural progression too, ya definitly have to work hard at it but its enjoyable if ya ask me! i got a D in the JC and stuck at it and got a D1 in the LC so if your borderline on it ya can just stick with it and it could pay off, also in the leaving you learn to give what the examiner is looking for too, for example youd understand the marking scheme and know what to do to try get a few points!

lemansky

You can learn your way to getting yourself an A in the junior cert. I did. Then sometime in TY I magically changed and began to understand maths, so LC HL maths really represented a little jump for me, rather than a huge one.

The difference between the two is where the emphasis lies in the approach to the subject. The JC throws maybe one or two wildcards in an exam but you can still get your A if you learned the rest of the questions well. They seem to just change the numbers and letters from year to year. Most things will be covered in the text book. People find leaving HL hard as they try and apply this style to it. The LC requires you to understand the material to do well in it. To learn off the LC and get an A is pretty much impossible, so when people do try this and get marks which aren't up to their expectations and see everybody else falling into the same trap they say that it's hard. It just requires a different approach, and if you learn to change your own approach to the subject (and like maths) you should do very well in it.

spurious

The whole philosophy behind the two exams is different.

Junior Cert. papers are set to maximise the amount of marks gained, Leaving Cert. papers are more discriminatory (in an exam sense, rather than discriminating against anyone).

Deadevil129

I was in higher level JC an LC and yes the two courses link together but only since the 2006 LC exam from what I gather. (I'm not going into detail because it's beside the point but a new JC maths exam was examined first the year before me, it was designed to make a smoother transition from JC to LC.)

There is a jump between the two which is where fourth year comes in handy because it can give you an extra year to warm up to some of the new concepts. You can hardly expect the exam to stay at the same difficulty it was at JC. The difference is fair enough, the general rule of thumb for English, Irish and Maths is that if you got a C or lower at JC HL, then you wont be able for honours LC.

I flew through JC maths, didn't honestly study once for an exam untill the JC came around and I always got A's. I struggled initially with Higher in fourth year because I had a brutal teacher then flew through fifth year. Sixth year things sped up quite a bit and in the end I landed myself a healthy B1. HL Maths is one of the hardest subjects you'll do so be warned. It's not something that you can say "Oh I'll study that a week before the exams" It's something that needs constant practise and attention which will do your head in at the best of times unless you love the stuff. At the end of the day if it's a subject you want or have to do you can't really slack on it or it'll bite you in the arse a couple of weeks before the big quiz. I'm aware most teachers will probably say that about most subjects but with most subjects you're relying on memory work not your own logic and ability.

The exam format is still the same (a, b and c parts to all questions) and you can make a reasonable judgement on how you're doing by what you can and can't answer once you've finished up a section.

regob

both easy

Nehpets

Deadevil129 wrote:

the general rule of thumb for English, Irish and Maths is that if you got a C or lower at JC HL, then you wont be able for honours LC.

Honestly, that's rubbish.

carlowboy

Nehpets wrote:

Honestly, that's rubbish.

I agree, I got a B in HL JC English and wasn't up for HL LC English.

NoQuarter

yep definitly rubbish, as i said a few posts back got a D the junior and a D1 in the leaving, skipped transition year and didnt have a great teacher so could have done better but a pass is a pass!

sd123

I got an A in the JC, and went straight into fifth year. I got a huge shock at first because i NEVER had to study/ work hard for maths. However, after a few weeks, I got the hang of it and started to do really well. The only thing is that you have to practice alot if you are hoping to get an A in the LC, be it HW or otherwise. For the record, I got an A1.

JC 2K3

Personally, in 5th and 6th year, my grades in maths were fluctating between As and Ds depending on how well I managed to grasp the concept of something we had a test on the day of the test. I just put a lot of effort* in at the end of 6th year and got the consistency required. I was one mark short of an A1.

*Effort? It was more like a fun break from proper study

sd123

JC 2K3 wrote:

It was more like a fun break from proper study

Absoloutly true, the great thing bout it was that you never had to learn anything off. All the formulae become known automatically after you use them a hundred times. Great to do so well without any REAL study.:D

md99

I found the JC HL maths nice and easy, and got an A, but its LC component proved a bit of a shock to me. This years paper happened to be a lot EASIER than before, however... Got a B2 when expecting a low C...

SamHamilton

Don't go into maths class in the mind-frame that "oh my God this is going to be soooooo hard like" because then it will be hard. HL maths is about confidence. If you go into class thinking that you can do anything, you'll have a lot less trouble. The papers throw questions at you that would look more at home on a japanese test paper but you have to remember that, in essence, every sum is the same! They can't throw something up that you haven't gone through in class. Underneath all the scary signs is a nice and easy sum that can be solved by a method you'll have used in class. That's where the confidence comes in. If you're faced with a demon of a sum just stare it down!

Also, if you can do HL maths, it's worth it. Even though it takes up a lot of time, the sense of achievement you get every time you get a problem right is addictive! I did really well in the LC but all I could think of was "woohoo I got an A1 in maths"! It's one of the most interesting and rewarding subjects that you'll ever get to study.

Anyway, this turned out to be a ramble. If you work hard you'll be able to pass HL. Attempt every question. That's the best advice I can give. At times the maths department are give away attempt marks so pick all of them up.

Lucas10101

Yes, there is a jump, but a manageable one. I got a B in Honours Maths for JC, but got a B1 in Honours Maths for LC...I wouldn't listen to a A in Ordinary is the same as a D, maybe in terms of points but not work.

To be honest, all you have to do is get the A parts right ( Piss easy if you done any work ), and a B part 1 in every question to get 40% so the fear of failing should be gone, only how much further can I go? "Practice makes perfect is applicable to Maths definitely.

I hated Maths in 5th year, but absolutely loved it in 6th. Once you settle down into the subject and grasp some concepts, everything fits together and it becomes very much okay.

Deadevil129

Nehpets wrote:

Honestly, that's rubbish.

:P That's why I said it was a general rule of thumb. There's plenty of other factors that have an effect, good or bad teachers, dedication and amount of work put in, and there's also people who genuinely struggle with things.

PurpleFistMixer

SamHamilton wrote:

Also, if you can do HL maths, it's worth it. Even though it takes up a lot of time, the sense of achievement you get every time you get a problem right is addictive! I did really well in the LC but all I could think of was "woohoo I got an A1 in maths"! It's one of the most interesting and rewarding subjects that you'll ever get to study.

I know it's a different subject, but same idea... I had a really hard physics question for homework today, had no idea how to do it, book didn't mention anything about that kind of question, but I got it out in the end and it was great. : D God I'm pathetic...

But yeah, great sense of satisfaction from solving hard problems.

JC 2K3

PurpleFistMixer wrote:

really hard [LC] physics question

That's an oxymoron.

Seriously though, once you get your head around physics, HL Maths is in a league of its own for difficulty.

PurpleFistMixer

Ah it's not that much harder. That was one tricky physics question.

timmywex

well, having only started leaving cert hl maths, i find it grand, was really good at jc maths though, as said, alot is about confidence, im confident that im good enough for an A1 and stride for it already, constant revision and solid work is what you need, (, i wish i did this myself, but im giving it a while so i have something to revise!!)

anyway, i find maths grand(then again, i think applied maths and physics helps), others find irish grand where its not my favourite,

andrew

Got an A in Jnr Cert HL maths and dropped down to OL Leaving Cert maths this year having done it for a year. Im guessing i just hit my maths ceiling or something, but it is quite a step up. good news is that so far OL has been a piece of piss - doing the sine rule in 6th year :rolleyes:

anything goes

I found Junior Cert HL Maths easy and got an A in it. I can't say the same for the leaving though. I did higher for a good while and thought I was ok at it(usually got a C in tests) but it was only really in the run up to the mocks that I realised I hard it was. I failed my mock and dropped down to pass (which was simple after the honours).
My brother (who is a genius at maths) reckons that if you don't get an A in JC maths you won't be able for HL in the leaving, but how true that is I don't know.

corklady

I did both junior cert and leaving cert honours. Like some have already said, if you got an A in JC then an A in LC is always attainable with a bit of work. It's a slight step up, but if you're any way interested in going into a career in engineering, computers, banking, or whatever then saying you did honours maths (even if you only get a C in it, which is still very good) will stand to you very well in terms of letting an employer know that you have a good head for figuring things out. Even if you never use anything on the syllabus again, honours maths is a great way to train your brain. It involves more "figuring out" than ordinary level and thus is a great thing to have. My advice would be to give it your best, you can always drop down, but you can't drop up!

p.s. I think honours LC maths has gained a bad reputation for being unattainable. It isn't. It just needs to be taught properly. If your teacher in school isn't getting the point across, get grinds.

JSK 252

My maths teacher said that JC HL Maths is the hardest maths for its age group in the world.

machiavellianme

JSK 252 wrote:

My maths teacher said that JC HL Maths is the hardest maths for its age group in the world.

Well they lied to you. Its not very difficult. Neither is LC maths for that matter. Maybe 20 years ago before they started watering everything down to what they have now it might have been considered reasonable. The fact that you can now use calculators says it all really. Maths only becomes sticky when you get to multi dimensional problems such as flows or advanced matrix manipulations for the computation of eigenvalues etc and even then its straightforward if you've a good head on your shoulders. Try the European Schools Bac (very different from the standard bac) at that age group. VERY different ball game.

dan719

machiavellianme wrote:

Well they lied to you. Its not very difficult. Neither is LC maths for that matter. Maybe 20 years ago before they started watering everything down to what they have now it might have been considered reasonable. The fact that you can now use calculators says it all really. Maths only becomes sticky when you get to multi dimensional problems such as flows or advanced matrix manipulations for the computation of eigenvalues etc and even then its straightforward if you've a good head on your shoulders. Try the European Schools Bac (very different from the standard bac) at that age group. VERY different ball game.

Wow your not trying to blind with techno speak at all are you?:rolleyes:
No honours maths is not hard- but I would say that when takes into consideration that one does it with six other subjects it compares more than favourably with the A-Level system, where one takes both Maths and Further Maths as part of three a-levels, without covering that much more(admittedly far more emphasis on proof). To see how your maths ability compares with the best check out S.T.E.P papers(too lazy to post a link- go to Cambridge admissions for maths).

lilmissprincess

I got a C in HL Junior Cert Maths. Theres one Higher class in our year, currently has 20 something people in it. Can see it dropping soon....
I'm totally lost for some of it, which is worrying cos some of it is stuff we did at Junior Cert, which i forgot in TY....

Roxy*

i dont really get what your trying to say??

i dropped, honours maths just gets well hard!!

~Candy~

interesting question!!!

well, i am just starting 5th lyk , but i been hearing alot about this higher maths!!right,heres da story of da 6th yrs in my school, there was 30 something started off in 5th year , and only 9-10 of them left now....

my teacher told us if you don't need maths for uni or if you found JC maths was hard , then you don't have to do higher maths coz it took alot of time and prob will drag down your other subjescts..( well theres like 40 of us doing it at the moment n no one wants to drop down) and he said by xmas half of the class will be gone !!


and to be honest i found it hard...like we got all the bloody differentiation questions done in 2 and half weeks!! i never had to work SO hard for maths in da JC and i got an A however i actually had to sit down n spend about an hours - 2 and half hours to do maths everyday, coz he is moving so fast n i try to catch up ...

ryanairzer

~Candy~ wrote:

interesting question!!!

well, i am just starting 5th lyk , but i been hearing alot about this higher maths!!right,heres da story of da 6th yrs in my school, there was 30 something started off in 5th year , and only 9-10 of them left now....

my teacher told us if you don't need maths for uni or if you found JC maths was hard , then you don't have to do higher maths coz it took alot of time and prob will drag down your other subjescts..( well theres like 40 of us doing it at the moment n no one wants to drop down) and he said by xmas half of the class will be gone !!


and to be honest i found it hard...like we got all the bloody differentiation questions done in 2 and half weeks!! i never had to work SO hard for maths in da JC and i got an A however i actually had to sit down n spend about an hours - 2 and half hours to do maths everyday, coz he is moving so fast n i try to catch up ...

You've just started 5th and already did differentiation?

lilmissprincess

We did Permutations and Computations ad something else in TY.....found it really really easy...

Why can't we start with that instead of Alpha and Beta?

PurpleFistMixer

Getting the algebra out of the way has uses in other places, other topics that involve algebra etc.

(But I just particularly dislike probability.)

Jello

PurpleFistMixer wrote:

(But I just particularly dislike probability.)

Yeah, we just did that and I'd say it's the most horrible thing I've done in Maths so far.

PurpleFistMixer

Thankfully it's not too difficult, and unless you for some reason do the Probability and Statistics option for the end of paper 2, it only affects 2 questions max! (I think, they could hardly have it on more...)

JSK 252

lilmissprincess wrote:

We did Permutations and Computations ad something else in TY.....found it really really easy...

Why can't we start with that instead of Alpha and Beta?

You cant jump the gun.

One day at a time is the way is see it.

sd123

PurpleFistMixer wrote:

Thankfully it's not too difficult, and unless you for some reason do the Probability and Statistics option for the end of paper 2, it only affects 2 questions max! (I think, they could hardly have it on more...)

Just don't turn your back on it. I hated probability and statistics but FORCED myself to try to learn the rules the day before P2. I did 7 questions on P2 including one probability/statistics. the trig question was really nasty

I got an A1 overall and got full marks on Q6. My uncounted trig question got me 35/50. Overall i got 544/600 in maths. 5 marks less and i wouldn't have gotten an A1.... Something to think bout

~Candy~

ryanairzer wrote:

You've just started 5th and already did differentiation?

yea...when did you do that ?.

i think my teacher wants ppl drop down by doing this ( 'hard stuff') 1st and moving lyk so so fast? i dunno :rolleyes: