How good is Dublin Poker?

OK this question has been on my mind for a while: exactly how good is the average level of play in Dublin card rooms?

I don't wanna get into personal recriminations or different rooms sniping at each other, just wondering what people's opinions are on this issue. Where is the standard?

Mr.Plough

bad

semibluff

varies alot, the 100 f/o on mon in se is good, as is the 100f/e in lukes on a thur imo. scalps on a wed in emp also good (a good field would still have atleast 20% dead money)

cardshark202

Its terrible everywhere.

DeVore

cardshark202 wrote:

Its terrible everywhere.

Presuming that the OP is talking relative-to-other-places I'd question that response. I know you've played in Vegas CS, do you rate their play better then Dublin? Where else have you played that you are comparing us to?

Perhaps you arent comparing Dublin to anywhere particular and just measuring us against optimal play, which seems a little harsh given that optimal play is super-multi-variable and very difficult to establish a baseline on. Well, very difficult for most people.

DeV.

cardshark202

Well the standard in vegas is awful too. I'm just saying that the average live player in dublin(average as in the majority) is awful at poker, which is the truth.

bohsman

Comparing to online, a few of the holdem cash games I played in Lukes last night were looser than most play money games online. Most live 1/2 cash games would equate to 10c25c or so online.

mrflash

Is this question relating to cash games or tourneys or both?

CHD

The standard is the same as anywhere you go.

It refers to both Tournament and Cash. Perhaps the question needs some revision.

Eliminate the absolute fish, the guys who watched the WPT once and play a monthly game with their friends for matchsticks. Take the Dublin regulars; the guys everyone knows. How do they stack up? (Note: not on a personal level: as a group)

LuckyLloyd

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LuckyLloyd

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DeVore

I guess I'll be the dissenting voice again. While many players in Dublin could stand a course on cash games (myself included) they are a head and shoulders ahead of most cities I've played in. I didnt play in Sweden/Copenhagen so I cant judge there but I've played in a good number of other cities on my travels to report on tournies and Dublin cash games are uniformly harder then any other.

DeV.

LuckyLloyd

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DeVore

Hence my first post, which was ignored....

DeV.

58o

God I miss Dublin cash games. Makes playing online feel like watching paint dry.

LuckyLloyd

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DeVore

Sorry, please point out where I said or implied that? If you mean the "super multi variable" comment I meant that there are many ways of playing poker. Its non-linear and there yet are some people here who seem to have some sort of lock on *knowing* whats the best line alll the time.

So many geniuses. So few millionaires.


DeV.

cardshark202

This is ridiculous, you can't become a millionaire playing 1-2PL live in Dublin lmao.

LuckyLloyd

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cardshark202

Dev, I don't understand how you can post that and still complain about the arrogance of me for example. I put a lot of work and effort into improving my game, I spend more time thinking about hands and situations and reading forums than I do playing. And I know I've put a lot more effort in than most. Subsequently I'm better than most people. I may be arrogant, but I know there are a few guys on here that are better me, but not very many. If you spent less time moaning about my rather abrupt posting style and more time thinking about what you're writing, you would be far better off.

mdwexford

The standard in Dublin is so far ahead of the rest of the county its scary.

I think people are overestimating how good "the average" player really is.

anyway back off topic.......

5starpool

The majority of poker players are crap.

NeoSlicerZ

The standard in Dublin, is at the very least, miles ahead of Galway.

Requiem4adream

I dont play many live tournaments in dublin but i think it's a chicken-and-egg tale. I get very disillusioned with live poker, any time i venture into S.E./Fitz/Merrion when it was open etc i get demoralised by the standard. To be diplomatic my verdict would be "unimpressive".

RoundTower

NeoSlicerZ wrote:

The standard in Dublin, is at the very least, miles ahead of Galway.

The games in Dublin are definitely softer than most. The standard in Dublin is better than almost anywhere in Ireland, worse than almost anywhere in the US, worse than London, about the same as Paris.

Not sure where Tom has played that I haven't. But I expect most of that was during various festivals and tournaments when the games are always going to be better. Comparing the standard of Dublin games all year round to Vegas games during the WSOP is disingenuous at best.

Hectorjelly

DeVore wrote:

So many geniuses. So few millionaires.

its hard to make a million playing low or medium stakes, which is all this forum caters for really.

ianmc38

DeVore wrote:

Its non-linear and there yet are some people here who seem to have some sort of lock on *knowing* whats the best line alll the time.

So many geniuses. So few millionaires.


DeV.

lol

DeVore

I've played in Vienna, Paris, Barcelona, Vegas, Kuala Lumpur, London, Amsterdam and Malta off the top of my head, not to mention just about every club in the country. Dublin has a higher standard then all of those. I'm not saying its "good", I'm saying its better.

RT: I do play in these places mostly during festivals but I dont understand your point, surely that would HIGHER the standard in these places. You've played in Barcelona during the EPT. Are you telling me the Omaha tables there are better then the 100 game in the Fitz? Because I thought they were pretty bad, so bad it almost made the lunatic rake beatable.

CS: I'm saying that you come out with a broad, dismissive comment and I'm questioning what data you have to back that up. You've played where...? Two other cities? I've never seen you down the country. You agree you don't play much but you spend a lot of time thinking and reading, thats great but I dont see how it gives you a basis to make a comparative statement about Dublin poker.

I consider myself unlucky to live in Dublin because it makes my life harder then if I lived just about anywhere else. Could it be improved? Sure it could. But what grinded my gears was yet more dismissive one-liners without justification or in this case even the travel experience to back them up.

DeV.

DeVore

Hectorjelly wrote:

its hard to make a million playing low or medium stakes, which is all this forum caters for really.

Ok, it was hyperbole (another one for you Flushdraw) but I think the meaning is applicable...

DeV.

bohsman

There are a few players making very good money from live cash games, just because they dont tell you about it here doesnt mean theyre all losing. Plenty have issues like br management, tilt control, pubs and roullette wheels being too close to live games etc. DeV your main problem seems to be game selection.

As for Barcelona, the games around the EPT were incredibly soft because of the travelling players, loads of drunk scandies blowing off steam, others being forced to play above their br at 5/10. Outside of the ept Im sure the rake is unbeatable.

cardshark202

Why does it matter whether the standard in dublin is much better than eslewhere? Its still terrible. And I never said I don't play much, I play like almost every day lol. The OP was asking what the general standard was in Dublin, I told him, you got annoyed for some reason, maybe because you're a dublin poker player and were worried I was calling you shít? Please understand that it was a general statement. Anywhere I've played live poker, the standard has been terrible. (I've only played in dublin melbourne and vegas though)

RoundTower

DeVore wrote:

RT: I do play in these places mostly during festivals but I dont understand your point, surely that would HIGHER the standard in these places. You've played in Barcelona during the EPT. Are you telling me the Omaha tables there are better then the 100 game in the Fitz? Because I thought they were pretty bad, so bad it almost made the lunatic rake beatable.

I think you are mixing up "good" and "bad" throughout the post. I used "good" to mean soft/loose/bad players with big tanks/etc, "bad" to mean a higher standard/tighter/tougher to beat. So yes, the Omaha games in Barcelona were better games than in the Fitz, and definitely beatable despite the rake. And yes, during any festival the games get better (softer). Recreational players travel to the festival and play every day, tournament donks have a big score and tilt it off in cash games, people take shots at higher games than usual, etc.

I know you have an interest in building up the image Irish poker. But the reality (and I've played cash games in at least a dozen cities round the world, mostly not at festival times) is that the games in Dublin are typically softer than games at the same stakes elsewhere. I missed one important one in my last post which is that the games in Sydney are softer than Dublin.

ionapaul

I've played in Dublin, Galway, Sydney and Melbourne only and would consider the Dublin game a bit better (tougher, not as soft, whatever) than the other three cities - there were a fair number of players making some sort of a living (doubt they were living like ballers, it must be said) playing most days in Sydney while I was there, I thought the standard was terrible and that playing ABC every day would make every month postive.
From recent experience, I definitely think that the level of play in Galway (€1/€2 or €2/€5) is in no way comparable to $0.10/$0.25 online...the standard online is much, MUCH higher at that level. Thank god for the Celtic tiger...pity it is about to die a traumatic death, live poker will not be the same in Ireland in 12 months time, lots of easy money is about to dry up.

HiCloy

ionapaul wrote:

From recent experience, I definitely think that the level of play in Galway (€1/€2 or €2/€5) is in no way comparable to $0.10/$0.25 online...the standard online is much, MUCH higher at that level.

.

Marq

About 90% of the regulars in dublin are rubbish.
I haven't played much outside of ireland except at EPT and WSOP times, so I couldn't really comment on the relative standard.
I personally thought that the standard in dublin was higher than the standard in vegas during WSOP, but that's saying very little.

I personally think that the standard of the average "thinking regular" in dublin is pretty low.

Marq

RoundTower wrote:

ISo yes, the Omaha games in Barcelona were better games than in the Fitz, and definitely beatable despite the rake.

Best. Game. Ever.

DeVore

Perhaps there is confusion about terminology (though I have often used comments like "higher standard" etc, which cant be mixed up realisitically).

RT, I note again your dig at me for having a vested interest. My involvement with the commercial side of poker has no bearing on this opinion but dont let that stop you making a snide remark at me, after all, it never has before, lol!

I thinking talking about the absolute-standard of poker anywhere is silly as we often dont agree on the line on a single hand let alone the entire game so how can it be judged? The best we can do is subjectively argue that one game was harder to win in then another. In this regard I have found Dublin games harder to win in then just about any other city I've played in.
If anyone has a counter example to this (ie: a city they think is harder to win in then Dublin) then I'd genuinely like to hear it.

Bohsman, my game selection is very poor. I admit that for sure (though when you organised that 500 NLH game in the Fitz one time, I think I was the only one who decided against it when I saw the line up!:)).
I should improve that part of my game but I wonder how many peoplesimply sit where they get a seat and dont shop around. Its a fair criticism though, I often find myself in games I probably shouldnt be in... I'm sick

If you want me to say the standard of poker in Dublin is great, well... it isnt. In fact I'll go so far as to say that the standard of poker here is only better then other places because the players are more aggressive. Its not through superior knowledge of the game but through sheer bullish personality that they play better then other places. Does that discredit my point? No, its still harder to win here then anywhere else imho.

DeV.

cardshark202

Players are aggressive in dublin? i havent played live cash games in dublin in about a year I would say but they were very passive last I remember. Games in vegas were about the same, melbourne was a bit more aggressive, but thats prob cos it was 2/5 and not 1/2

RoundTower

DeVore wrote:

If anyone has a counter example to this (ie: a city they think is harder to win in then Dublin) then I'd genuinely like to hear it.

did you miss the bit where I said
London
AC
Las Vegas
LA (not sure really)
Seattle
maybe Paris

RoundTower

DeVore wrote:

RT, I note again your dig at me for having a vested interest. My involvement with the commercial side of poker has no bearing on this opinion but dont let that stop you making a snide remark at me, after all, it never has before, lol!

well I do think you view Irish players through rosy coloured glasses and find it hard to be objective. But I don't think there's anything wrong with that, it is probably an excellent trait in your line of work, so it wasn't meant to be a snide remark.

LuckyLloyd

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Killme00

The Omaha game in the Jackpot is very poor and very beatable especially if you have a decent tank. There are maybe two winning regulars and a handful of winning non regulars. The Omaha game in the Merrion was very good but i was only starting out back then and cant put it into perspective. I havent played enough in Cool Hand Lukes yet to comment. The 50 Omaha / RE in the fitz is bland and poor and beatable.

The standard of PLHE is similar in all the clubs in that it is very poor. I have seen some decent winning regulars but not too many.

Any decent winning player in Dublin would adapt their game and do well in most cities but that is reflective of the player and not the game they play in.

pok3rplaya

200NL/500NL anywhere I've played live is roughly = 10NL online.

The only other place I've played live is Vegas (as opposed to Drogheda/Dublin) and I felt the standard was pretty much the same as Dublin. Though I was there at a pretty dry time of year, just after the WSOP ended.

ianmc38

the 1/2 games in vegas were a similar standard to Dublin. The 2/5 games were 1 million times tougher than any game ive ever played in Dublin. Gutshot in the UK was similar if not worse than than Dublin.

Trippie

ianmc38 wrote:

. Gutshot in the UK was similar if not worse than than Dublin.

i played there regularly for a few months and i would say that its worse but only because they are so weak tight compared to the game here

Washout

5starpool wrote:

The majority of poker players are crap.

lol i was thinking the exact same thinkg Dom.
We moan about the bad quality of play in our local city.
We moan about the bad quality of play on foreigh shores.
We then go on and moan about the bad quality of play when we watch big games like High stakes poker on the box.

But where is the standard line which defines an average table.
is an average table of poker around the world a table where there will only be 1 or 2 players who play to a standard that is acceptable to us...which seems to me is ABC poker.

Dave147

Good post washout.

I'm a regular in the macau in cork over the last 3/4 years, never played in dublin but have noticed a decline in winning/good players over the last year where I played exclusive cash. Having a new lease of life on tournaments: the last 6 tournaments I played I final tabled 5.. 2 years ago that would have been close to impossible because the standard was so much better. So many guys jumping on the "Live off poker" bandwagon has made it easier to win, lowering the overall standard.

I wonder is the standard in dublin in decline as time goes on, despite fairly constant numbers as it is down south.

DeVore

ianmc38 wrote:

the 1/2 games in vegas were a similar standard to Dublin. The 2/5 games were 1 million times tougher than any game ive ever played in Dublin. Gutshot in the UK was similar if not worse than than Dublin.

The 1/2 game in vegas was the softest I have ever played in. Truely dreadful opponents whose bets I could easily control when I wanted to play big or small pots. Really, I didnt want to leave....

In Paris the word for fold seems to be the word for call too. I've played there a number of times and I've never left the Aviation club un-gobsmacked.

DeV.

mrflash

The standard in cash games in dublin is poor compared to some other parts of the country. I would find a cash game in galway much tougher than in dublin. Well at the 1/2 level i should say. But maybe thats because there are bigger games available in dublin and its only the real weak players playing 1/2 in dublin, whereas in athlone, you might have a 1/2 game with average stacks of 2k. In galway the only bigger game i know includes vesty, and that alone makes it a tough table.

But the average player in dublin is a different thing entirely, as there are a lot of working guys who only get to play one or two nights a week and generally play tournament poker, and the average tournament player in dublin is miles ahead of most other cities and i'm not just talking about ireland here.

ianmc38

yeah anywhere ive played in ireland outside of dublin has been the sickest value town ever.