Creatine or Whey?

galwayguy33

Hi
Looking for some advice on which is better creatine or whey or which brands? any advice appericated im lookng to lose a bit of weight and bulk up some muscle

pwd

Not sure which brands are the best, but micronised creatine dissolves easier, which is important, so I'd suggest getting that.

mack1

Creatine and whey are two completely different things, you cannot compare which is "better" it's like asking which is better, orange juice or sellotape.

Whey is simply a protein supplement, so allows you to ingest more protein coz there is only so much chicken you can eat in a day. I think that everyone can do with more protein in their diet - so taking some whey is not a bad idea.

Creatine is much different, (this is from memory, so I am open to correction here) it increases the flow of red blood cells to the muscles and thus delivers more oxygen to those muscles. I would not imagine you need it unless you are doing somewhat serious training.

Also - before you take any supplement make sure you educate yourself about what it is and how to use it - google articles from bodybuilding.com. t-nation and John Berardi.

What is actually better for the goals you have stated is:

"lose a bit of weight" - diet & exercise! Eat right - read the stickies there's a load of info there, avoid sugar & processed foods, drop carb intake, eat lots of fish, chicken and veg.

"build some muscle" - lift heavy ass weights - and eat!

What ceatine & whey have in common is that they are supplements, as the name suggests they are there to supplement a healthy lifestyle, not to compensate for an unhealthy one (not saying this is you) - but I would suggest you get a good program going with a mix of cardio and weights and eat right then worry about supplements.

Hanley

mack1 wrote:

Creatine and whey are two completely different things, you cannot compare which is "better" it's like asking which is better, orange juice or sellotape.

Whey is simply a protein supplement, so allows you to ingest more protein coz there is only so much chicken you can eat in a day. I think that everyone can do with more protein in their diet - so taking some whey is not a bad idea.

Creatine is much different, (this is from memory, so I am open to correction here) it increases the flow of red blood cells to the muscles and thus delivers more oxygen to those muscles. I would not imagine you need it unless you are doing somewhat serious training.

Also - before you take any supplement make sure you educate yourself about what it is and how to use it - google articles from bodybuilding.com. t-nation and John Berardi.

What is actually better for the goals you have stated is:

"lose a bit of weight" - diet & exercise! Eat right - read the stickies there's a load of info there, avoid sugar & processed foods, drop carb intake, eat lots of fish, chicken and veg.

"build some muscle" - lift heavy ass weights - and eat!

What ceatine & whey have in common is that they are supplements, as the name suggests they are there to supplement a healthy lifestyle, not to compensate for an unhealthy one (not saying this is you) - but I would suggest you get a good program going with a mix of cardio and weights and eat right then worry about supplements.

Great post. I nearly p!ssed myself laughing at the first bit.

Creatine bonds with a phosphate ion when it enters your body creating creatine phosphate.

Your body uses ATP (adenosin TRI-phosphate) as it's main energy source, as this gets used up it's broken down to adenosin DI-phosphate.

This is where creatine comes in, because it has a weak attraction to the phosphate ion attached to it it "donates" it to the ADP cells (which are basically useless used up energy), and they reform as ATP (which again is the main energy source for muscular contractions).

I THINK what happens next is that the creatine can re-attach to another "floating" phosphate ion and repeat the process or it just turns into creatinine which is basically useless and is just excreted.

So creatine lets you train harder and for longer (although to be honest the ACTUAL effects might be an extra rep or 2 per set, or maybe 2.5kg on a max lift) so it's not THAT big a deal.

All of the above probably has spelling mistakes and some tterminology errors but I think it's pretty much all correct... No doubt someone will correct it if I'm wrong.

g'em

Hanley wrote:

All of the above probably has spelling mistakes and some tterminology errors but I think it's pretty much all correct... No doubt someone will correct it if I'm wrong.

Nope, that's pretty much bang on, nice one.

mack1 - creatine doesn't really increase blood flow, Nitrous Oxide does as found in supplements like BSN NO-explode, and gives you an extra 'pump'. Creatine will usually be found alongside NO in these supplements though - although the increased blood flwo may contribute towards faster creatine delivery? Not sure on that, would have to check. All creatine really does is provide energy as Hanley has explained, it gives you an extra supply of 'energy molecules' that your body can use so you get fatigued slower. Otherwise, great post, and I'll be stealing your sellotape and orange juice analogy - genius

OP like mack1 said eating well and lifting heavy is more important than any supplement you can buy for the goals you have. Get those right and then worry about the details.

slemons

mack1 wrote:

Creatine and whey are two completely different things

well thats not true.
Their application/function is different alright.

Creatine is a compound of 3 amino acids in relatively pure form. (and some other things either ethyl ester or water)
Amino acids form chains which are called proteins.
And whey contains lots of proteins

IMO a part of the reason there is such uproar about creatine is due to its naming. "creatine" sounds dodgy. If it was just "the 3 amino's" or something then maybe soccer moms wouldnt be ringing gerry ryan so much about it

g'em

slemons wrote:

well thats not true.
Their application/function is different alright.

Creatine is a compound of 3 amino acids in relatively pure form. (and some other things either ethyl ester or water)
Amino acids form chains which are called proteins.
And whey contains lots of proteins

ah sure jaysus, if you want to be that particular about it you could say they're composed mostly of carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen and oxygen, so they're practically the same!!

A molecule containing only 3 amino acids will be wildly different from a protein complex that contains hundreds and thousands of variations of 20 amino acids as is the cases of whey. Fair enough, the 'building' blocks are the same, but biologically, chemically, functionally and in application they're quite different.

mack1

Hanley, G'em - thanks for correcting me on the creatine!

Once again I find myself owing you two a dept of gratitude for increasing my knowledge!

slemons wrote:

"creatine" sounds dodgy. If it was just "the 3 amino's" or something then maybe soccer moms wouldnt be ringing gerry ryan so much about it

Interesting point this, I agree, the word creatine makes it sound like a steroid or something! But then again, I get some funny looks when people see me pouring a shake made of white powder into me after the gym!

Boston

So Creatine is something you would take just before a work out along side a mix of Explode? Whey you would just take whenever? Where does Ram fit in?

pwd

Creatine is usually taken twice a day, or sometimes in a post workout drink.

One important thing about creatine is that you have to drink it within 15 minutes or so of mixing it into a drink, or it becomes creatinine, which is useless (though harmless).

iregk

When it comes to the soccer moms and complaints and such like the perfect quote for this is one I heard from Maralyn Manson. Obviously he wasn't talking about creatine!

"People fear what they don't understand and that fear usually turns them against it as thats easier than trying to understand it"

g'em

Boston wrote:

So Creatine is something you would take just before a work out along side a mix of Explode? Whey you would just take whenever? Where does Ram fit in?

that's pretty much it Boston - Nutrition X Xplode or BSN Explode both contain creatine so you take them pre-workout as a 'booster' to give you more energy.

You'll also hear people talk about two types of creatine - Mono (creatine monohydrate) and CEE (creatine ethyl ester). Essentially they'll give the same effects (CEE is just mono with an ethyl ester moleucle lumped onto it; the result is that CEE is supposedly easier to absorb, but is also more expensive) and often it just comes down to personal preference. I use CEE because it tends not to bloat me.

You'll also hear about loading phases, pre- vs post-workout creatine, cycling and oodles of other stuff. Needless to say, don't worry about it - those are details that be stressed at a later stage. In fact creatine use in itself is unproven. Anecdotally some people lvoe it, some hate it. I'm undecided.

RAM is a post-workout shake that has carbs and protein in it (in a 2: 1 ratio). The carbs help replenish the glycogen (stored energy) in your muscles and spike your insulin. The protein provides the amino acids necessary to repair your muscle tissue.

Whey is for anytime. It's a by-product of cheese-making so essentially it's more a 'food' than a supplement as such. Whey is really just an easy way to get protein - no cooking, no preparing, just bung a scoop into a shaker, add water and drink. You can drink it any time of day to keep your protein levels topped up. It doesn't 'build muscle' or make you hyoooge or do anything particularly magical, it's just a way to keep your belly full of amino acids As for choosing which brand is best - they're essentially all the same, find one you like the taste of and you can afford!!

iregk - great quote, sums it up nicely tbh.

nesf

slemons wrote:

well thats not true.
Their application/function is different alright.

Which was implicit from the rest of his post where he discussed only their function and not their physical nature. It's a bit like saying to someone that it's not true to say a chair and a table are completely different things because they both are made from wood.

It makes no sense to get lost in arguments about the physical make up of X or Y when what's of interest is their function and nothing else. Otherwise we get into issues like fat and muscle being essentially the same thing and so on.

Boston

Thank you g'em, you're a star for clearing that up for me.